The Guns and Ammo Thread

[Smoke_Jaguar]

Remington 870 Tactical magnum. Standard home defense shotgun.

My girlfriend just got a 410 shotty with the same 870 receiver as mine. I don’t know very much about her gun.

Her dad also just got a 410 to add to his colletion and I must say, it is the coolest gun I have probably ever seen. It is a doubled barreled 410 with a fold up stock that is only about a foot and a half long with the stock extended. The rumor is that it was a paratrooper weapon in WWII but I couldn’t find any information on it. If anyone has any ideas let me know.

I also bought an M1928 aka a Tommy Gun. Specifically the one in the middle with the extended barrel and forward pistol grip.

Read that. Read that again.

Is that ok? Girls with guns, angry dads, husbands.

If I got in a fight with you, you push me, I punch you, you gonna go home and get your gun, load it, and wait for me somewhere to blow my brains out.

Is that right?

You say "No. I wouldn't do that".

Ok, not you. But how about the next guy like you?

I didn't want to say anything bad about gun owners, but I love just guns, and not the owners. I think you need to protect yourself, but the criminal is not rarely you best friend, your brother, your son, your wife, your neighbour. If all these people had guns, like you all do, I wouldn't feel safe at all.

Give me petty thieves and two bit drug dealears anytime.

 

[Dove]

I want this when I get patrol rifle certification.

http://www.hk-usa.com/le_hk416_general.html

Or the FN PS-90. Depends on what the requirements and terrain are.

I freakin hate shotguns.

/edit: Let me add a couple things about the HK 416. It was just released in 7.62x51 called the 417. So I might go with that. Depending on department guidelines.

I've seen a few of those Tommys around in gun shops. The violin case makes it all worthwhile. The weapon itself is a relatively poorly made replica, but it works. I would still stand by an original, or older manufactured replica.

 

[Muff]

Dove I like your choice of the HK416, Why would you not chose something like a M14 or AR15?
And why do you dislike shotgun's?

 

[iii]

Dove I like your choice of the HK416

Meh,

If the system of the SCAR-H holds what it promises when it wil be the übergunl

 

[Dove]

Dove I like your choice of the HK416, Why would you not chose something like a M14 or AR15?

It's an AR-15/M4 manufactured by H/K. So I don't know how to answer that.

And why do you dislike shotgun's?

I just don't like them. A good rifle shooter is a lot better in many ways more than an expert shotgun shooter.

And I call shenanigans on anyone who thinks the SCAR is a good rifle. Too heavy, the mechanics are too complicated for a battle rifle. Add the fact that it looks disgusting and you have one hell of a lemon.

 

[Foul Ole Ron]

the Victoria police SOG's use shotguns a lot. they have a habit of blowing the fuck out of crims with SG rounds because it's like being shot 9 times with a 32, then if they want a less lethal round they have the option of using pepper ball rounds (like the standard paint pellets) filled with OC (capsicum oleoresin) powder... ouch

me...

 

[Muff]

Dove I like your choice of the HK416, Why would you not chose something like a M14 or AR15?

It's an AR-15/M4 manufactured by H/K. So I don't know how to answer that.

And why do you dislike shotgun's?

I just don't like them. A good rifle shooter is a lot better in many ways more than an expert shotgun shooter.

And I call shenanigans on anyone who thinks the SCAR is a good rifle. Too heavy, the mechanics are too complicated for a battle rifle. Add the fact that it looks disgusting and you have one hell of a lemon.

Thanks for clearing that up for me dude, I meant why did you not chose a more traditional rifle like a AR15 or a M14 as I know they are quite popular gun's in the USA.

 

[iii]

And I call shenanigans on anyone who thinks the SCAR is a good rifle. Too heavy, the mechanics are too complicated for a battle rifle. Add the fact that it looks disgusting and you have one hell of a lemon.

Well thats interesting! So please tell me where is the big difference between the 3.5kg of the HK416 and the 3.5 kg of the SCAR-L (both are chambered 5.56 mm) ???

Too complicated and unfit for a battle rifle, so I must be misinformed that was designed to withstand harsh environment and dust etc.?

At least get your facts straight!

I have and probably never will hold any of those 2 in my hands so I am using the companys internet sources.

 

[SuAside]

Or the FN PS-90. Depends on what the requirements and terrain are.

euhm, the PS-90 is the semi-auto civilian plinker... the P90 is the automatic PDW.

/edit: Let me add a couple things about the HK 416. It was just released in 7.62x51 called the 417. So I might go with that. Depending on department guidelines.

go with 6.5mm Grendel & get the best of both worlds (it's better than 6.8mm SPC), but i guess you want to stick to standard ammo types (5.56mm & 7.62mm NATO)

Dove I like your choice of the HK416, Why would you not chose something like a M14 or AR15?

the entire idea behind the HK 416/417 program is to make a more reliable AR15. so yeah, it's a hell of a lot better than the standard M4 or M16.

it does away with the craptic direct gas system the normal M4/M16's use (the weakest part of the system).

Dove I like your choice of the HK416, Why would you not chose something like a M14 or AR15?

It's an AR-15/M4 manufactured by H/K. So I don't know how to answer that.

yeah, because an M2 browning is the same as an M3M, right? sjeezes man, if you want to talk about buying guns at least get informed...

And why do you dislike shotgun's?

I just don't like them. A good rifle shooter is a lot better in many ways more than an expert shotgun shooter.

and somehow you utterly fail to recognise that the role of a shotgun is not the same as a rifle? dude, i'm sincerely starting to doubt you ever had any firearms training...

And I call shenanigans on anyone who thinks the SCAR is a good rifle. Too heavy, the mechanics are too complicated for a battle rifle. Add the fact that it looks disgusting and you have one hell of a lemon.

alright, let's dissect this piece by piece:

- "not a good rifle": it is one of the most reliable rifles produced in the last 25 years. it shoots as accurate as any compareable weapon with the same barrel length. the ergonomics and ease of use is superior to the HK 416, a case in point would be the way you fire the M203, mount the M203, strip the gun or use spare parts.
(i'd also like to add that you can flip the ejection port and charging handle from left to right & vice versa with a minimal of spare parts. a dream for lefties, try that with your goddamn AR)
- "too heavy": as said, 3.5kg with 14.5" barrel for a 5.56mm, 3.5kg for the SCAR-L (also 5.56mm)
- "too complicated": why yes! i see why you'd say that since it is a dream to fieldstrip and was designed for that very purpose (it is designed for SOCOM afterall). various mounts such as an M203 launcher is even easier to mount than on the HK variants. the 3 chamberings (SCAR-L in 5.56mm NATO, SCAR-H in 7.62mm NATO and 7.62mm Russian) have a whooping 90% parts compability/interchangeability (break one, get spare parts from the other).
- "looks disgusting": who the fuck cares about how it looks? i'd argue that functionality and performance is what counts. and if you're whining about the color, the color is chosen because it is a perfect paint base for all environments... it's not meant to see combat like this, unless in the desert perhaps.

anyway, the SCAR shouldnt be compared to the HK416 anyway. the 416 is a general purpose rifle, while the SCAR is designed for Spec Ops. the requirements are different.

 

[Foul Ole Ron]

Dove I like your choice of the HK416, Why would you not chose something like a M14 or AR15?

It's an AR-15/M4 manufactured by H/K. So I don't know how to answer that.

well refinement of an old "battle proven" design to try and iron out some of the problems, might be one reason for buying the HK416 over the M14 or AR15.

I'll withhold judgment on the SCAR, till i see what happens when all the special ops receive it and either throw it away in favor of another weapon, or run with it.

me...

 

[Dove]

blah blah blah

I know all that. You're trying to argue stuff that isn't particularly relevant.

I said for a patrol rifle I might get a PS-90. Can't have a fully automatic weapon in the trunk, or behind the seat of a cruiser. If I go SWAT I'll have a full auto rifle, depends on what position I'll have to determine which one.

Shotguns aren't as useful as they once were for my line of work. Their useful range is actually getting to be shorter than a pistol's. Beyond pistol range, obviously a rifle would be necessary. I could write pages and pages of arguments, but I feel they would fall on deaf ears, so I'll sum it up to one sentence. Shotguns are for people that aren't confident in their abilities to hit a target with one projectile.

The preferred spec ops rifle. Don't even ask for the reasons.

2.27 kg versus 3.12kg. Also keep in mind that it has a shorter barrel. So less accuracy, more weight, and it's still the same length overall.

Buy a left handed AR-15 if you want brass to eject left. The charging handle has always been ambi.

BTW. The H/K 416 (selective fire, not semi only) has already seen service in the field, both line and spec ops. The SCAR hasn't.[/url]

 

[SuAside]

isn't it funny that you declare instant superiority, yet don't actually say anything useful to refute my claims?

I said for a patrol rifle I might get a PS-90. Can't have a fully automatic weapon in the trunk, or behind the seat of a cruiser. If I go SWAT I'll have a full auto rifle, depends on what position I'll have to determine which one.

a PDW is not a rifle... a PDW is closer to an SMG than to a rifle. so please stop calling it a patrol rifle?

Shotguns aren't as useful as they once were for my line of work. Their useful range is actually getting to be shorter than a pistol's. Beyond pistol range, obviously a rifle would be necessary. I could write pages and pages of arguments, but I feel they would fall on deaf ears, so I'll sum it up to one sentence. Shotguns are for people that aren't confident in their abilities to hit a target with one projectile.

really, such a claim is moronic... if you really are cop / ex-military, you should be ashamed. if you really want to go SWAT, that's even a bigger shame on you.

so please do write your pages of arguments...

2.27 kg versus 3.12kg. Also keep in mind that it has a shorter barrel. So less accuracy, more weight, and it's still the same length overall.

where did you get that 2.27kg claim for the HK416 in 10.5 inch? 3.31 kg with 10.5" barrel is what i can dig up.

and shorter barrel? not very relevant in this case, kid...

Barrel lengths of the Mk 16 (SCAR-L) will be manufactured in three different lengths: 253 millimeter (9.96 inch) = CQB, 351 millimeter (13.82 inch) = standard, and 457 millimeter (18 inch) = long.
Barrel lengths of the Mk 17 (SCAR-H) will be manufactured in three different lengths: 330 millimeter (13 inch), 400 millimeter (15.75 inch) and 500 millimeters (19.68 inch).

for HK 416's that is 267 mm (10.5 in), 368 mm (14.5 in), 419 mm (16.5 in), 508 mm (20 in).

so a terribly useful claim you make about barrel length...

oh and to boot, the weight of the SCAR-H and HK417 is pretty much identical (3.87kg with the 13 inch / 12 inch barrel respectively).

anyway, reported weight varies a lot depending on the source. hell, defense update even reports 3.08kg empty for the 13 inch SCAR-L, but i find that rather unlikely.

Buy a left handed AR-15 if you want brass to eject left. The charging handle has always been ambi.

is an invalid argument since doing so brings down a logistics nightmare to any large organisation.

BTW. The H/K 416 (selective fire, not semi only) has already seen service in the field, both line and spec ops. The SCAR hasn't.

euhm, 1000 production model SCAR's were delivered in january... so scratch that claim.

 

[Commander Halligan]

Grrrr, no fair, I'm in the UK and they don't let us own proper guns over here, that hasn't stopped me acquiring a nice collection of CO2 powered, high power replicas.

Beretta 92FS
Colt 1911
SIG 225 (as seen in my current avatar)
Smith and Wesson 586 6 inch barrel
Desert Eagle
Walther P99

All made by German company Umarex and all of them damn good fun.
Its possible that soon their even going to ban the sale of these types of weapon's although ownership will still be legal. 8)

 

[Muff]

Commander Halligan you can own Real firearm's in the UK I do, although we are limited as to what we can own so semiauto's over .22 cal.

 

[Commander Halligan]

Too much paperwork and too many rules for me, I prefer the freedom of air weapons, like being able to practice in my backyard 8)

 

[Muff]

Dude, the paper work is a hassle but it is more than worth it .

 

[Thrawn]

I didn't want to say anything bad about gun owners, but I love just guns, and not the owners. I think you need to protect yourself, but the criminal is not rarely you best friend, your brother, your son, your wife, your neighbour. If all these people had guns, like you all do, I wouldn't feel safe at all.

Give me petty thieves and two bit drug dealears anytime.

I would feel much safer actually.

Everyone who works in my local gun shop carries a gun. Why don't gun shops ever get robbed? Lots of people pay cash for guns so it isn't like there is nothing to steal.

Why is the violent crime rate so much higher in states with the strictest gun laws?

I think the movie "Fight Club" made a good point when they talked about how hard it was to start a fight with someone. Just because you carry a gun doesn't mean you're more likely to hurt someone that makes you angry. I can get in my car and run someone over just as easily as I could go get my gun and shoot them.

 

[Commander Halligan]

Oh dear, youve given me all sorts of idea's now. I think I might have to look into it, cheers man. 8)

 

[Buxbaum666]

Why don't gun shops ever get robbed?

Is that a fact? I don't think so.

Why is the violent crime rate so much higher in states with the strictest gun laws?

Is _that_ a fact?

Just because you carry a gun doesn't mean you're more likely to hurt someone that makes you angry.

You can't shoot anyone if you don't have a gun. I think it's way easier to shoot before you can even think about what the fuck you are doing.

I can get in my car and run someone over just as easily as I could go get my gun and shoot them.

Yeah, I know MANY arguments that ended like, "You called me a WHAT? Stay where you are, I'm gonna get my fucking my car and run you over, motherfucker!"

 

[[PCE]el_Prez]

My girlfriend just got a 410 shotty with the same 870 receiver as mine. I don’t know very much about her gun.

Her dad also just got a 410 to add to his colletion and I must say, it is the coolest gun I have probably ever seen. It is a doubled barreled 410 with a fold up stock that is only about a foot and a half long with the stock extended. The rumor is that it was a paratrooper weapon in WWII but I couldn’t find any information on it. If anyone has any ideas let me know.

The .410 is a type of shotgun shell (like 12 or 20 gauge).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.410