The Guns and Ammo Thread

[Dove]

isn't it funny that you declare instant superiority, yet don't actually say anything useful to refute my claims?

As do you apparently.

a PDW is not a rifle... a PDW is closer to an SMG than to a rifle. so please stop calling it a patrol rifle?

It's not a full length rifle, and? You're not catching it. A patrol rifle is something that has longer range and more penetration than a pistol. Designations really have no bearing.

Shotguns aren't as useful as they once were for my line of work. Their useful range is actually getting to be shorter than a pistol's. Beyond pistol range, obviously a rifle would be necessary. I could write pages and pages of arguments, but I feel they would fall on deaf ears, so I'll sum it up to one sentence. Shotguns are for people that aren't confident in their abilities to hit a target with one projectile.

really, such a claim is moronic... if you really are cop / ex-military, you should be ashamed. if you really want to go SWAT, that's even a bigger shame on you.

Shotguns aren't as useful as they once were for my line of work. Their useful range is actually getting to be shorter than a pistol's. Beyond pistol range, obviously a rifle would be necessary. I could write pages and pages of arguments, but I feel they would fall on deaf ears, so I'll sum it up to one sentence. Shotguns are for people that aren't confident in their abilities to hit a target with one projectile.

Let me elaborate. ALMOST ALL AMERICAN POLICE DEPARTMENTS HAVE GOTTEN RID OF SHOTGUNS DUE TO COLLATERAL DAMAGE, AND GENERAL INNEFECTIVENESS except for less than lethal deployment.

so please do write your pages of arguments...

You aren't catching anything I've written already, would be kind of pointless.

where did you get that 2.27kg claim for the HK416 in 10.5 inch? 3.31 kg with 10.5" barrel is what i can dig up.

I didn't get that for the H/K. That's the low end of the weight scale for the myriad of AR-15 rifles. Any one of the thousands available would more than serve it's purpose. Have been for many many years.

and shorter barrel? not very relevant in this case, kid...

A shorter barrel has more relevance than you obviously know. A shorter barrel unequivocally relates to less accuracy. Any shooter knows this, why don't you?

Barrel lengths of the Mk 16 (SCAR-L) will be manufactured in three different lengths: 253 millimeter (9.96 inch) = CQB, 351 millimeter (13.82 inch) = standard, and 457 millimeter (18 inch) = long.
Barrel lengths of the Mk 17 (SCAR-H) will be manufactured in three different lengths: 330 millimeter (13 inch), 400 millimeter (15.75 inch) and 500 millimeters (19.68 inch).

This is me not giving a shit. I already know what models and barrel lengths are going to be available.

for HK 416's that is 267 mm (10.5 in), 368 mm (14.5 in), 419 mm (16.5 in), 508 mm (20 in).

Yawn. Yeah, I know...

so a terribly useful claim you make about barrel length...

I was comparing 10.5 inch barreled M-4 versus 9.96 inch SCAR. Barrel is shorter on SCAR meaning less accurate, yet the SCAR is longer in total lenght, meaning less useful in a tight confrontation. It was also heavier. Still in reference of 10.5 M-4 vs. 9.96 SCAR.

oh and to boot, the weight of the SCAR-H and HK417 is pretty much identical (3.87kg with the 13 inch / 12 inch barrel respectively).

This I also know. Which is why, depending on the possible situations, I would go for the 417 for the larger and heavier round. The 5.56 NATO round is fairly unreliable for stopping power. (so don't use that argument, I already know, and have experienced it)

anyway, reported weight varies a lot depending on the source. hell, defense update even reports 3.08kg empty for the 13 inch SCAR-L, but i find that rather unlikely.

Well. Good for you. Using internet sources only for arguments. Have you ever actually used a weapon for other than target shooting? Then you would know that weight, length, accuracy, and ease of maintenance are more important than "european stuff is uber cooler than US stuff".

Buy a left handed AR-15 if you want brass to eject left. The charging handle has always been ambi.

is an invalid argument since doing so brings down a logistics nightmare to any large organisation.

...

Umm. Large organizations don't give a shit about individual concerns, just lowest bidder. Which means you get what's cheaper to manufacture. Besides, since you didn't read what I wrote I'll explain. YOU buy a left handed AR-15. They don't give me anything, I buy it, just like almost every department in the country. Of course they pay me extra for uniforms and protective gear, so it doesn't come out of pocket.

BTW. The H/K 416 (selective fire, not semi only) has already seen service in the field, both line and spec ops. The SCAR hasn't.

euhm, 1000 production model SCAR's were delivered in january... so scratch that claim.

To who? As far as I can tell, they're in testing. When were the first AR-15/M-16's delivered?

 

[Smoke_Jaguar]

I would feel much safer actually.

Everyone who works in my local gun shop carries a gun. Why don't gun shops ever get robbed? Lots of people pay cash for guns so it isn't like there is nothing to steal.

Why is the violent crime rate so much higher in states with the strictest gun laws?

How about a school? How about 20 students killed in a no crime community? How about VANCOUVER ?

 

[DammitBoy]

How did I miss this thread? Why do i have trouble believing one third of what two thirds of you guys claim to own?

---

The John Wayne Arsenal of Freedom (my gun collection) to date:

1. Thompson Center .54 cal Hawkins blackpowder (R)
2. Uberti 1873 revolver carbine .45LC single action (R)
3. Pietta .44 cal new army model 1858 cap and ball, blackpowder (P)
4. Cobra .32 auto derringer (P)
5. Davis .32 auto derringer (P)
6. Para-Ordinance P14 .45 cal semi-auto (P)
7. Ruger Mini-14 ranch rifle .223 cal semi-auto (R) <<< used to murderlate deer and hogs
8. M1A1 Garand .308 cal semi-auto (R)
9. Tokarev-54 9mm semi-auto (P)
10. Heritage Arms .22/.22 mag single action (P)
11. Marlin 30/30 cal lever action (R)
12. Marlin model 99 .22 cal semi-auto (R)
13. Mossberg 12ga. 3" magnum (S) <<< used to murderlate hogs and turkeys
14. SKS-45 romanian 7.62x39 semi-auto (R)
15. SKS eqyptian 7.62x39 semi-auto (R)
16. Winchester Model 94 .45LC lever action (R) <<< deerslayer
17. Remington 1100 12ga. 2 3/4" semi-auto (S) <<< hog and deer killer
18. I.A.C. model 99 1887 coachgun side by side 20ga. (S)
19. Intratec AB-10 9mm semi-auto (P)
20. Ruger new model Blackhawk .357 7" barrel single action (P)
21. Ruger new model Blackhawk .45LC 5" barrel single action (P) <<< hogslayer
22. Ruger Mark II 50th anniversary edition .22 cal semi-auto (P)
23. Ruger SP101 .357 cal double action (P)
24. Ruger 10/22 rbi .22 cal semi-auto (R)
25. Smith & Wesson 1906 breaktop 'lemon squeezer' .32SW double action (P)
26. Mauser 1896 'broomhandle' 9mm semi-auto (P)
27. Bushmaster XM-15 .223 semi-auto (R) <<< hog and deer homicide device
28. whatever I get at the Gun Show next weekend!

(R)= rifle (P)= pistol (S)= shotgun

---

YeeHaw!

Funny, despite what this little eurotard says - I haven't shot anybody with any of these guns during my 40 years of gun ownership (except when Uncle Sam made me shoot Iranians).

How is this possible? Oh yeah, because smoked_faguar is full of shit, that's why...

Please feel free to see actual pics of my actual gun collection at;

http://asshelmets.com/index.php?action=displaythread&realm=asshelmets&forum=thegspot&id=61&startat=0

 

[Smoke_Jaguar]

Funny, despite what this little eurotard says - I haven't shot anybody with any of these guns during my 40 years of gun ownership (except when Uncle Sam made me shoot Iranians).

How is this possible? Oh yeah, because smoked_faguar is full of shit, that's why...

Thank you for your kind words sir, I value your opinion very much. As a collector, you are not the target of my remark, and my comments do not refer to your type of gun owning, sir.

But because you're a well-spoken gentleman of The Great United States, I will elaborate on what I was trying to argument, as many members of your great country have trouble reading before commiting to action, as it were.

I love guns just as much as you guys, but, my views are pretty strict.

I respect my country's decision as far as I can remember, much before I was born, since now and what looks like the next 5 to 10 years to restrict guns to military and police personell.

I live in a country with a high rate of theft, crime, and prostitutuion, corruption, but, only 5 or 6 crimes were commited last year with the use of a gun.

With guns going to civies, I would expect much more of this, and every rich guy can do anything to you, but if the all have guns, they can shoot you from they're godamn cars.

Crimes are pretty funny and sad to report on news here, since most are done with hatchets, axes, garden tools and stuff like that.
Since I can remember I was always wary about suspect activity, people and all that, watching my back and always ready to throw a punch. My 4 years spent at the gym discurages some, but not all.

Romania btw.

I was merely suggesting that gun control has been a wise decision in my country, and as you own a Romanian made SKS for your collection, it proves just what us "eurotards" can do that even a backwater hick such as yourself ownes our rifles.
I was pointing out what the lack of gun control to CIVIALINS for PERSONAL USE can do.Columbine comes to mind.

Thanks for always resolving arguments by insults, you worthless dumbshit lame excuse for a human being. I hope you trip, fall and shoot yourself in face, maybe that would put your stupid family out of their misery.

 

[Dove]

Why don't gun shops ever get robbed?

Is that a fact? I don't think so.

Yes. It is. Occasionally someone tries...

Why is the violent crime rate so much higher in states with the strictest gun laws?

Is _that_ a fact?

Yes. It is fact.

Just because you carry a gun doesn't mean you're more likely to hurt someone that makes you angry.

You can't shoot anyone if you don't have a gun. I think it's way easier to shoot before you can even think about what the fuck you are doing.

Yeah. You can get shot by the other guy who still does. Don't tell me there aren't any guns in countries that have outlawed guns. Criminals who had guns, still have them, and can still get them.

I can get in my car and run someone over just as easily as I could go get my gun and shoot them.

Yeah, I know MANY arguments that ended like, "You called me a WHAT? Stay where you are, I'm gonna get my fucking my car and run you over, motherfucker!"

I remember seeing a video of a woman who did that to her husband.

Murder is a lot older than guns. 'Member that.

 

[DammitBoy]

1) Thank you for your kind words sir, I value your opinion very much. As a collector, you are not the target of my remark, and my comments do not refer to your type of gun owning, sir.

2) I was merely suggesting that gun control has been a wise decision in my country, and as you own a Romanian made SKS for your collection, it proves just what us "eurotards" can do that even a backwater hick such as yourself ownes our rifles.

3) Thanks for being a worthless dumbshit, asswipe.

1) My type of gun owning? I shoot for target practice, I shoot to hunt helpless animals that taste good, and I'd shoot any little fuck that tried to harm me and mine or steal my stuff - that's the kind of gun owner I am - boris, just so we're clear.

2) Maybe you have a point - I suppose spineless 3rd world tards like yourself don't deserve a right to bear arms. Let's hope Putin decides to take your pissant country back into the motherland, huh? As for my romanian sks, it's a cheap piece of crap, but historically significant and I believe it was designed by a russian, since you slavic tard farmers have trouble making anything.

As to me being a hick farmer, perish the thought boris! I have 3 degrees from college and I've forgotten more than you'll ever know and earned more than you'll ever make.

3) Your welcome! You eurotard.

ps - Your mom is a sloppy fuck...

 

[Dove]

I agree.








His mom is a sloppy fuck.



Columbine was a good example against total gun control restrictions. They bought them through criminal channells. Guns won't magically disappear if they're banned.

Vancouver is in Canada fuckmook.

 

[Smoke_Jaguar]

As to me being a hick farmer, perish the thought boris! I have 3 degrees from college

Hah, schools in America...don't make me laugh...they produce old farts like yourself that call countries like Poland, Romania and Hungary Soviet....damn you are uneducated. Where'd you graduate, Bumfuck school of aviation and air contion repair?

Vancouver is in Canada fuckmook.

They teach you that at the Acadmy, fuckface? I did not say it was in America, idiot.


Cotton pickin shit-for-brains...

 

[Dove]

Cotton pickin shit-for-brains...

He's white.

 

[Tannhauser]

Tone it down.

 

[Dove]

Tone it down.

Who said that? Who the fuck said that? Who's the slimy little communist shit, twinkle-toed cocksucker down here who just signed his own death warrant? Nobody, huh? The fairy fucking godmother said it!

 

[Smoke_Jaguar]

Ah...FMJ, one of my favourite movies. That movie makes my point, doesn't it?

 

[Sorrow]

How about a school? How about 20 students killed in a no crime community? How about VANCOUVER ?

20 err... 32killed + Goddess knows how wounded defenceless, gunless students. They were on mercy of a single armed man.

 

[iii]

You are just a bunch of paranoid bastards.

I don't see any point in possessing a gun for self defence.

 

[Sorrow]

Me to. But I'm living in Poland. We don't have gun wielding psychos here.

 

[Dove]

How do you know that? One could just show up one day. Then who would stop him from wiping out all your co-workers at the car wash?

 

[SuAside]

@ Dove:

- you insulted the SCAR, i didn't insult the HK416.
- HK is german, FN is belgian, both have subdivisions in the USA. so how could this ever be european vs american debate?
- an HK 416 is not an Armalite-15, hence length of service is irrelevant.
- 1 centimeter difference in total barrel length when comparing CQB barrels while boasting about increased accuracy is laughable at best.
- the 'internet source' noted was a FN SCAR generation 2 booklet... so yeah, it does hold some credibility doesn't it? (but they've gone on to gen 3 now)
- and no, i've never shot a living thing, does that make you a better person than me?

 

[nospaces]

I've got 2 as of right now

winchester repeating rifle chambered in 30-30

mossberg 590 persuader

and I hate gun laws, because the law never stopped any criminal i know

 

[Dove]

@ Dove:

- you insulted the SCAR, i didn't insult the HK416.

Yeah?

- HK is german, FN is belgian, both have subdivisions in the USA. so how could this ever be european vs american debate?

Since I'm not debating the H/K, but AR-15 style rifles in general.

- an HK 416 is not an Armalite-15, hence length of service is irrelevant.

Neither is a colt M-4, bushmaster XM-15, or smith & wesson M&P-15.

- 1 centimeter difference in total barrel length when comparing CQB barrels while boasting about increased accuracy is laughable at best.

Long range accuracy is affected by a half of an inch difference. Close quarters, granted, accuracy of the hardware doesn't matter much. Total length of the weapon, and weight, however, do.

- the 'internet source' noted was a FN SCAR generation 2 booklet... so yeah, it does hold some credibility doesn't it? (but they've gone on to gen 3 now)

Released by FN no doubt. A company wouldn't "exaggerate" it's product. Never would they do something like that.

- and no, i've never shot a living thing, does that make you a better person than me?

I serve and protect the public. That makes me a better person.

 

[Sander]

Unless you people can keep this civil, don't turn this into a gun laws discussion thread. And since you apparently can't, don't.

Especially Dammitboy! This is not asshelmets, so don't try to post as if it is. Also, Smoke Jaguar, don't post contentless flames. *If* you flame people, at least post some content.