the Master: was he evil?

[Languorous_Maiar]

Also how the hell did the master get from mariposa to LA?

Fallout bible..

I have no idea how the Master was moved. It was probably either by a large (steam) truck or caravan, but I don't have any specific information on how he was moved. I doubt a caravan could do it unless Grey was much smaller and, uh, less "spread out" than he was at the end of Fallout 1, which is entirely possible, but he sounded pretty fucking mutated in his audio diary in the Military Base. Maybe they poured him into in a toxic waste barrel and transported him that way. I haven't found an explanation in F1 anywhere – so if anyone finds one before I post an answer, let me know.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Fallout bible..

I like to think he became a Super Mutant like creature, strong, fast and not needing food and water before slowly mutating to the blob we see him as.

 

[Millim]

I just like to think this Blob crawled hundreds of miles just to sit there on a computer.

 

[Dr Fallout]

I just like to think this Blob crawled hundreds of miles just to sit there on a computer.

That... works pretty well in my mind?

 

[Jogre]

Just a point here that's somewhat related to this topic:

When you talk to the Master, he informs you that those who deny the chance to become Supermutants will be sterilized and then the Unity will let them go free, and that those that resist either dipping or sterilization will be executed.

However, The Vault Dweller only has 2 ways of responding to this "I don't want to be executed, so go ahead and dip me" or "You are one sick puppy. I'll have to put you down"

He gives you 3 options(Dipping, Sterilization, Death), However you can only actually choose 2 of them. Don't that seem a little strange?

 

[Kenneth E Lawson]

Huh... I didn't know folk who held that opinion were still on NMA. What did you think of fallout 2 and new Vegas?

I haven't played them. I don't want to. The original Fallout is the inspired word, 2 may be a sort of apocrypha (or a camp send-up, from what I've read), and the rest are clearly on the level of televangelism - made by hacks for very big corporations who like to make lots and lots of money.

 

[Kenneth E Lawson]

It's not popular, but it's got a point. Fallout's world was really tight and fit together well.

And made by people who really cared, some so much that they lost money working on it. Fallout shows what is possible when the marketing department doesn't know or care what you're doing. Once they got wind of it, it was all over.

 

[Kenneth E Lawson]

i think Vree's report was erroneous:

1. the mutant she autopsied had been long dead.
2. she is hardly an expert on F.E.V., nor is she aware of it's existence beyond rumors.
3. she doesn't realize that mutants are immune to radiation.

Vree hypothesized that F.E.V. decreases intellect by 30%, but it's a likely possibility she could've autopsied a dumb mutant and made her assumption based off of that. F.E.V. only decreases intelligence in irradiated subjects. her hypothesis that F.E.V. increases life expectancy by a mere 10% seems fallacious as well. there are mutants who have lived well beyond 100; Lily Bowen is 203 years old in New Vegas, Marcus ~120-140.

it is not surprising that her report contradicts with ZAX's information. i would trust ZAX over Vree on the matter, as it possesses pre-war scientific data on F.E.V that Vree does not.

Every time I play, I want so badly to share with her all the information I found in the Glow and the Military Base. In fact, last night I left some holotapes on the floor in the library's anteroom, hoping that she and Sophia would find them.

 

[Kenneth E Lawson]

Huh... I didn't know folk who held that opinion were still on NMA.

Isn't that the whole NMA raison d'etre? That's how I came to be here, anyway. When I saw Fallout 4 on the home page, I wondered whether I was in the right place. The scope of the site seems to have enlarged broadly in nearly 20 years. But, most of the archives are still there.

 

[R.Graves]

Isn't that the whole NMA raison d'etre? That's how I came to be here, anyway. When I saw Fallout 4 on the home page, I wondered whether I was in the right place. The scope of the site seems to have enlarged broadly in nearly 20 years. But, most of the archives are still there.

Fallout 3&4 are corporate products I agree Kenneth. 3&4 are garbage. But I assure you 2 & NV are worth a shot. They are made with the same love and care fallout 1 was. My favorite Is a dead set tie between 1 and NV because the world's are so well crafted and the writing in both is top notch. (2 can be a bit out there sometimes). NV was made by a different company than 3&4. One that cared.

 

[R.Graves]

I haven't played them. I don't want to. The original Fallout is the inspired word, 2 may be a sort of apocrypha (or a camp send-up, from what I've read), and the rest are clearly on the level of televangelism - made by hacks for very big corporations who like to make lots and lots of money.

2 can be campy at times (regrettably) but the game is a quality fallout game overall.

 

[Jogre]

and the rest are clearly on the level of televangelism - made by hacks for very big corporations who like to make lots and lots of money.

If your problem with modern Fallout is that its too corporate, I assure you New Vegas is fine.

New Vegas was actually made by Obsidian, a company that up until recently was considered somewhat of an indie company, and are by no means corporate. There games are far more focused on targeting audiences who prefer old fashioned RPGs, rather than being cash grabs that appeal to the masses.

IMO it shares the general feel of Fallout 1.

 

[R.Graves]

NV had more prominent wild west feel to it than the original did. But that's just because it's set so much further down the timeline than fo1 is.

 

[Aperture Science XS 2000]

Asking this question is like asking :
the nazi: were they evil? They truly believed in the future they tought they were building. They were naive and misguided!

Nah. The master is obviously evil and insane. Insanity don't make your evil action justified.

 

[Throatpunch]

IMO yes. Like many people who think they are doing something for the greater good of humans, its really an evil thing.

 

[Kenneth E Lawson]

targeting audiences who prefer old fashioned RPGs

...and delivering them to Bethesda, which owns the "intellectual property" and outsources the niche markets and skims the cream. I respect your experience and that of Mr. Graves, and my qualms have far more to do with economics and morality than with gameplay. Whether one enjoys a game or not is purely subjective. I finally gave in and tried 2 just a few days ago and thought, "What the hell? Chosen One? Temple of Trials? You gotta be kidding me!" I don't like the whole concept of buying and selling ideas. Fallout was a one-of-a-kind event produced by a special group of people. Laugh if you want, and I don't quite understand it myself, but I feel some kind of bond with those people, and a responsibility to them. They're not the ones sitting on top of piles of money. They feel, quite rightly, that someone kidnapped their child and raised it. Fuck that shit. I can keep playing Fallout. I feel like I owe it to someone.

 

[Aperture Science XS 2000]

moral principles and ethics are much more nuanced than you make them out to be. we don't have to go from one extreme to the other and conclude that just because someone isn't totally evil (anti-villains, tragic villains, et cetera) it must mean they're really a naïve little lamb—that's juvenile black-and-white thinking. reality involves shades of grey.

i guess if you look at it from a really broad perspective, then yes, the Master is evil (from a utilitarian point of view—his actions, while not rooted in malice, were ultimately disadvantageous to the human race). but that's missing the point. i made this thread specifically to spark up deeper discussion about his motives/personality. wiseguy "well, duh" replies aren't constructive.

i think everyone is aware that's he's done inexcusable things, no one is debating that. discussing whether or not he was "justified" isn't the point of this discussion—he clearly wasn't, and he breaks down at the fact.


i'm in agreement with you. i think of the later Fallout games as individual entities rather than as a series continuation. Bethesda's imagining of Fallout is so starkly different from where it began, it might as well be an entirely separate game series.

while i enjoyed them on a superficial level, they aren't as weighty as anything in the original. it's like comparing the Iliad to someone's 7th grade fanfiction. they aren't even on the same playing field.

You are just stupid and stretching story out of your head. The master was always designed to be an evil counterpart to the game. He IS evil and insane as shown in game, we shouldn't even be discussing it. IT'S THE FUCKING EVIDENCE. Stop using those buzzword to make it like you know phylosophy.

You are just asking me if the nazi were evil here, my analogy stand and my point stands

 

[R.Graves]

You are just stupid and stretching story out of your head. The master was always designed to be an evil counterpart to the game. He IS evil and insane as shown in game, we shouldn't even be discussing it. IT'S THE FUCKING EVIDENCE. Stop using those buzzword to make it like you know phylosophy.

You are just asking me if the nazi were evil here, my analogy stand and my point stands

Woah did I just stumble into YouTube comments? Because this post is devoid of intelligence and full of undeserved hatred. Calm down bud.

 

[CerberusGate]

You are just stupid and stretching story out of your head. The master was always designed to be an evil counterpart to the game. He IS evil and insane as shown in game, we shouldn't even be discussing it. IT'S THE FUCKING EVIDENCE. Stop using those buzzword to make it like you know phylosophy.

You are just asking me if the nazi were evil here, my analogy stand and my point stands

No need for the hostility here. The OP wanted to discuss something and it has brought about debates on the topic. Your comment here does not add anything to the discussion except to indicate an inability to consider and speculate further on certain matters capable of speculation.

I'd even go so far as to say that your insults are more descriptive of you than the OP since the OP actually conceded on some of your points and elaborated on their points but you assumed that the OP was not...

 

[Brivoo]

To state the obvious, evil is subjective. An uprising, for example, can be remembered as either terrorism or revolution, depending on the victor.

The Master is interesting to me because he is a point of cultural divisiveness in the communities of Fallout's post-apocalypse, remembered and sometimes even revered by the super mutants and almost entirely forgotten by man; when they do remember him, he is despised.

I think a Hitler comparison is actually rather poignant; his downfall was engineered out of a number of factors a sizable number of which were his own fault, but his core asset was his ability to manipulate his subjects.

Either way, he was deranged, even by his own admission. He believed himself to be perfect and wished to unite the wasteland by remaking it in his own image.

He believed himself to be doing good, yes, but no villain ever thinks of himself as such. He slaughtered hundreds, possibly even thousands to create his army, and then hundreds more that tried to stand in his way.

However, as I said before, he's only remembered as a villain because he lost. Had the mutants won and had he eventually died, opinion on him might have eventually flipped, but considering there would be no new generations to bring a fresh perspective or new research, I find that hard to believe.