The Outer Worlds information overload

2 million is what PP got, which was almost three times what the budget was. Therefore we could assume that's roughly at least what TOW costed them respective to the budget, which is 100% way way more than 2 million
 
Atomkilla said:
I've never said about anything of this will translate into better games because of money being saved.
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I'm not saying you said it, I said it like that as a hypothetical statement someone somewhere might be saying to justify Epic's shenanigan.

Atomkilla said:
Steam has plenty of exclusives, they just aren't named such. Check out FNV. Up until recently, only way you could play it was through Steam. Even retail copies ran through Steamworks.

There are many examples like this.
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'Recently'? My man, New Vegas has been on GOG since the middle of 2017. That might count as 'recently' in your book, but considering the game is nearly 10 years old by now it's not so recent.

Also, I'm not sure NV being only playable through Steam to the point of the retail copies ran through Steamworks is entirely Steam's 'fault'. Did Valve signs an exclusivity deal with Bethsoft so that New Vegas will need Steam? I'm pretty sure the answer is the big ol' no. And no matter what case of Steam's exclusivity one can bring up, I'm pretty sure it's nowhere near as scummy as Epic's shenanigan.
 
Black Angel said:
I'm not saying you said it, I said it like that as a hypothetical statement someone somewhere might be saying to justify Epic's shenanigan.


'Recently'? My man, New Vegas has been on GOG since the middle of 2017. That might count as 'recently' in your book, but considering the game is nearly 10 years old by now it's not so recent.

Also, I'm not sure NV being only playable through Steam to the point of the retail copies ran through Steamworks is entirely Steam's 'fault'. Did Valve signs an exclusivity deal with Bethsoft so that New Vegas will need Steam? I'm pretty sure the answer is the big ol' no. And no matter what case of Steam's exclusivity one can bring up, I'm pretty sure it's nowhere near as scummy as Epic's shenanigan.
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If the game is 10 years old, and 80% of that time it was available only on one single platform, I'd say it was an exclusive. I have no idea how it went behind the scenes, who signed what or if anything was signed, but the fact remains it wasn't available anywhere else for quite a long time. And it wouldn't have been, really, without GOG to bring us the DRM-free option, which was something they worked for and not the publisher.

Indeed, this doesn't mean it's same as with Epic. Epic's deals are of different nature and the exclusivity they bring is something else, but the fact remains that Steam was (and largely is) a sovereign in PC market, with many publishers and devs having their games available exclusively on Valve's platform.
 
Do you have some examples of games are contractually obligated to only be avaleible on Steam that aren't Valve's own or published games? What was NV on PC being exclusive *to*?
 
Arnust said:
Do you have some examples of games are contractually obligated to only be avaleible on Steam that aren't Valve's own or published games? What was NV on PC being exclusive *to*?
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You people seem to be reading through my posts in a very wrong way or are just acting obtuse. I'm going to go with the former, but geez guys...




In the first of my posts I have written that there are plenty of games on Steam which are sort of exclusives. As in, you cannot legally play them on PC without using Steam. Steamworks is mandatory to play them, even when you get a retail copy or buy it from some other store (i.e. Humble) you have to run them through Steam (FNV was exactly this - you either own it on Steam or you don't own it at all).
I have no idea if there is a contractual obligation for this (I doubt there is) or if publishers just decided to use Steamworks and nothing else for practical reasons (far more likely), but the point is you cannot play them without Steam.

There are a fuckton games like this.
FNV was an example, Dark Souls 3 is an example (and the series as a whole, at this point), Civilization is an example (IIRC), Crusader Kigs 2 and few other Paradox games are an example, I think same goes for many Sega titles like Total War or newer Warhammer games...
The list goes on.

And no, I cannot provide a definitive list because there isn't one.
Just open up your Steam libraries/wishlists and see how many games you have there that you cannot run without Steam. Check their availability anywhere else that isn't a Steam key reseller. Or go to your nearest game shop and look at boxes of games. See how many of them have a very small print of "Requires Steamworks to run" or something akin to it on their back cover.


The point of all this is that Steam is so fucking huge that publishers and devs at this point don't even bother looking for other ways to get their products to the consumers. Steam is more often than not the only way.
This isn't an exclusive in a legal manner, but is pretty damn exlusive nonetheless.
If you don't see this is a issue or an actual phenomenon that is happening, than I'm not sure I can tell you anything more.
 
Atomkilla said:
The point of all this is that Steam is so fucking huge that publishers and devs at this point don't even bother looking for other ways to get their products to the consumers. Steam is more often than not the only way.
This isn't an exclusive in a legal manner, but is pretty damn exlusive nonetheless.
If you don't see this is a issue or an actual phenomenon that is happening, than I'm not sure I can tell you anything more.
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I don't see that as exclusivity, more like a form of DRM enforced upon the game's copy to ensure.... whatever it is DRM meant to ensure when it's placed upon the game. It sucks, but it's nowhere near the context of exclusivity we're discussing right now.

Exclusivity, by definition and in context of video games, is basically when you can only get them from one place. Prime examples are console exclusives, like Bloodborne where you can only get it from PS4 Store, and only from there alone. Meanwhile, from what I know, New Vegas was available on other sites such as Green Man Gaming. And since I didn't know better, I'd assume the access to New Vegas by way of GMG and other sites is available since Day 1. This is thanks to Steam's ability to generate keys, from which devs or publishers can distribute it somewhere else and from what I know Steam doesn't take even a single % cut from keys being sold on other stores/sites like GMG.

Requiring Steamworks isn't exclusivity, since the game can still be bought anywhere else. It's basically a form of DRM, and as far as I know imposing Steamworks upon a game is 100% devs'/publishers' choice.
 
Black Angel said:
I don't see that as exclusivity, more like a form of DRM enforced upon the game's copy to ensure.... whatever it is DRM meant to ensure when it's placed upon the game. It sucks, but it's nowhere near the context of exclusivity we're discussing right now.

Exclusivity, by definition and in context of video games, is basically when you can only get them from one place. Prime examples are console exclusives, like Bloodborne where you can only get it from PS4 Store, and only from there alone. Meanwhile, from what I know, New Vegas was available on other sites such as Green Man Gaming. And since I didn't know better, I'd assume the access to New Vegas by way of GMG and other sites is available since Day 1. This is thanks to Steam's ability to generate keys, from which devs or publishers can distribute it somewhere else and from what I know Steam doesn't take even a single % cut from keys being sold on other stores/sites like GMG.

Requiring Steamworks isn't exclusivity, since the game can still be bought anywhere else. It's basically a form of DRM, and as far as I know imposing Steamworks upon a game is 100% devs'/publishers' choice.
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Fair enough. I never was saying this is an exclusivity in the legal sense, but you are probably right that labeling this under DRM is more like it. And I honestly didn't know Steam doesn't take % from GMG sales and similar sites, but that is my fault.

Regardless, at the end of the day you do require Steam to run a game. Nothing else wil do. And that in itself is an issue.
 
Steamworks isn't about DRM. It's tools that connect to their APIs I believe. Portal 2 on PS3 installs Steamworks on the PS3 so you can see your Steam friends on PS3 and do cross-platform matchmaking on Steam. It also unlocks steam achievements when you unlocked trophies on PS3 and you can upload your saves to the cloud and transfer them to the Steam version.

Microsoft had big egos back then (and still do but they're selling less XBO than PS4 so now they're all pretending to be nice guys to get people to buy their consoles) and wouldn't let Steam install Steamworks on 360. So only the PS3 version had these features.
 
As someone who was directly concerned by New Vegas being fucking Steam only until 2017, I fully understand Atomkilla point.
Because yes, no matter how many sites or retails the game was available on, still requiring to install Steam spyware is a exclusivity and I don't care what the dictionary definition of exclusivity is.

In my perspective, 2017 is so recent that I didn't even realize the game was finally on GOG until 2018. I didn't even believe this day would come anymore. So maybe people who bent to Steam exclusivity long ago don't see the problem, but a old dinosaur who never will and waited 8 years to actually play a game like NV sure see it.

If I weren't so selective on the games I play, I might have to be a big bad pirate.
 
Steam "exclusivity" was more a matter of convenience than them actively preventing publishers from selling their games elsehwere through contracts. It offers a platform where people can more easily buy their game and download their content with a demonstrably YUGE user base. They can still sell their games on GOG or their own storefronts if they so please.

To be honest I rather have an unified store to buy shit, the last thing I want is to have to handle credit on multiple different platforms just to play games, currently the alternatives to Steam either don't have a comparable library (GOG) or just straight up suck (Uplay, Origin, Epic store). And while Uplay limited their fuckery to forcing a UPLAY acount that you can ignore, and EA only witholds their own games, Epic is preventing third party titles to be widely available to strong arm people into their service even tho they don't offer anything Steam does.
 
Now this appears to me to be a massive shit show but is this a timed exclusive deal or out right proprietary exclusivity to the epic store?
 
It's an one year exclusivity. If you want to play it on Steam or any other platform that will have the game, you can only play it in 2020. This also applies to Metro Exodus and i assume any other Epic store third party games that are exclusive at the moment.


I'm in the camp that hates this and it's solely for the fact that i need a bunch of launchers if i want to play specific games. I'm not gonna defend Steam's 30% cut they get from sales of the games because that percentage is ridiculous, but just grabbing games and pay for exclusivity to get people to get your launcher is not what i call a good move. Specially when your store is trash, like the Epic Store is.

Not to mention having to manage different accounts because the aformentioned need to have a bunch of launchers to play different games. Which is just annoying and exhausting. This exclusivity thing is good for developers, but not exactly good for customers.
 
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The reception for this game turned a complete 180° from being one of the most anticipated games of the year to an outcry with threats of boycotting, really sucks that it turned out this way. It doesn't help that the Epic Games Store isn't even that good of launcher with horrible downloading speed and slow loading times, worse is the speculation that it's Chinese spyware due to the connection to Tencent
 
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Boy, I wouldn't want to be in Tim and Leo's shoes right now. They've been waiting for so many years to have another shot at making a game they've been wanting to make for ages. They finally assemble a good, creative team, get solid funding, hype around the game is built, previews are very positive and then all of a sudden somewhere, someone who doesn't give a single fuck about the anguish and labour of creative process behind this dream project pulls the rug under them, killing the hope of so many gamers around the globe and staining the vision these man had.
For profit.

Fuck corproate greed. Fuck the publisher. Fuck Epic. Fuck their shitty game and all screaming, raging stupid kids who fund it with their parents' money, buying shitty skins. Fuck grownass adults who do that, fuck them especially. Fuck AAA. Fuck mainstream gaming. Fuck the market. Fuck the gaming industry as a whole.
 
Walpknut said:
Steam "exclusivity" was more a matter of convenience than them actively preventing publishers from selling their games elsehwere through contracts. It offers a platform where people can more easily buy their game and download their content with a demonstrably YUGE user base. They can still sell their games on GOG or their own storefronts if they so please.
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Everyone say that. Steam, the games's loaner is 'convenient', and damn the rest of us who don't want anything to do with a online third party program, having to connect to a spyware when installing a game we supposetly 'bought' and so on.

Walpknut said:
To be honest I rather have an unified store to buy shit, the last thing I want is to have to handle credit on multiple different platforms just to play games, currently the alternatives to Steam either don't have a comparable library (GOG) or just straight up suck (Uplay, Origin, Epic store). And while Uplay limited their fuckery to forcing a UPLAY acount that you can ignore, and EA only witholds their own games, Epic is preventing third party titles to be widely available to strong arm people into their service even tho they don't offer anything Steam does.
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What credit? You choose a game, you pay it, download a offline installer and back it up on a external hard drive in case GOG would ever go Steam-like and enforce fucking galaxy. That installer will still work and never need to connect to anything, same with the installed game. No credit or launcher of any sort required.
Steam and other steam-like are choosing to not provide such a service, and it's the only one I need.

Publishers take decisions according to what the majority of customers buy, and where. And were I one of them, I woudn't see the problem in enforcing a new spyware on people who are ok with Steam.
They asked for it.
 
I mean, the game's still going to do well and be well reviewed. Same thing happened to Metro Exodus.
 
FDO said:
Everyone say that. Steam, the games's loaner is 'convenient', and damn the rest of us who don't want anything to do with a online third party program, having to connect to a spyware when installing a game we supposetly 'bought' and so on.



What credit? You choose a game, you pay it, download a offline installer and back it up on a external hard drive in case GOG would ever go Steam-like and enforce fucking galaxy. That installer will still work and never need to connect to anything, same with the installed game. No credit or launcher of any sort required.
Steam and other steam-like are choosing to not provide such a service, and it's the only one I need.

Publishers take decisions according to what the majority of customers buy, and where. And were I one of them, I woudn't see the problem in enforcing a new spyware on people who are ok with Steam.
They asked for it.
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Don't feel attacked dude. Don't get your panties in a notch.

Also GOG doesn't have nearly a comparable library of games, it uses prices in Dollars, doesn't have a debit option for my country so I would need to be handling different payment methods between it and Steam, so yeah, Steam is still a better option.
 
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