The US is in decline but has a navy

[TorontoReign]

Should have seen this coming. See here Genocide is just rounding up people and killing them for some goofy reason like wearing purple socks on a Tuesday. To win a Guerrilla war, one rounds people up and kill them so they stop being Guerrillas. It's tough but fair.

And as for hitler and stalin they where short and short people should never be trusted.

Your logic falls apart at the point where you're supposed to identify guerilla fighters. In a country like Afghanistan, where the guerilla fighters come from the local populace and are often supported by them (out of conviction or fear), you can't draw that distinction easily. Your proposal to round people up and perform mass executions is precisely the kind of thinking that characterized counter insurgency operations in the Third Reich, Soviet Union or any other totalitarian regime.

What you're proposing is effectively genocide: mass killings that are to continue until either the guerilla threat is eliminated or there are no more people to kill.

Such thinking is shameful, particularly for a member of this community.

I scoff at such suggestions sir, scoff in a manner that is mocking. And I only proposed Erasing any and EVERY-body that looks at America cross eyed. You try to Mad Dog Freedom, you better be prepared to be put down.

And for the record you are the one that brought up Genocide and Hitler. Because for some reason you really(really, really) like to bring up Hitler every chance you get. But that's your thing, and you can talk about Hitler all you want.

So Shine on you crazy Diamond.

Nice. Troll threads are funny.

 

[Crni Vuk]

I scoff at such suggestions sir, scoff in a manner that is mocking. And I only proposed Erasing any and EVERY-body that looks at America cross eyed. You try to Mad Dog Freedom, you better be prepared to be put down.

And for the record you are the one that brought up Genocide and Hitler. Because for some reason you really(really, really) like to bring up Hitler every chance you get. But that's your thing, and you can talk about Hitler all you want.
.

We should eventually ask the Afghan fighter. They might see them self as fighters for "freedom".

The roles in this funny play we call life can be sometimes interchanged.

 

[TheGM]

I scoff at such suggestions sir, scoff in a manner that is mocking. And I only proposed Erasing any and EVERY-body that looks at America cross eyed. You try to Mad Dog Freedom, you better be prepared to be put down.

And for the record you are the one that brought up Genocide and Hitler. Because for some reason you really(really, really) like to bring up Hitler every chance you get. But that's your thing, and you can talk about Hitler all you want.
.

We should eventually ask the Afghan fighter. They might see them self as fighters for "freedom".

The roles in this funny play we call life can be sometimes interchanged.

That like asking all those COBRA Initiates why they fought GI Joe all the time.

Because they hate Freedom.

Also to spread a world wide theocracy and religious intolerance.

One of those Life imitating art things I guess.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Sorry I have no clue what you want to say actually.

*seriously now*

(maybe I understand ... no clue ...)

So all Afghan fighters are the same for you? Hmm ... let me take a closer look then.

There was once some organisation. Lets call them C.I.A . And there was another group, which we will ... call the Contras. The Contras have been evil. Really evil I mean. Like. Hitler evil (Tagaziel will love this). It was bad to give them money. Like really evil. But someone at the C.I.A. thought it would be still fun to do so. But of course. You cant do it officialy! That would be evil too. So they allowed the Contrals to sell drugs on US streets and the CIA sold weapons to the Iran which was in a war with the Iraq. Which is evil as well but no one cared about it. The money was used to support the Contras which has done of course more evil things.

So. as we can see everyone is capable of doing stupid things. The US people just like any Afghan farmer with his AK. Should I assume now that every US citizen working for any US autority is as well evil?

Quite the hyperbole here. I know. But its just to make a point. Afghanistan isnt your neighbourehood with 5 or 6 people where it would be easy to eventually identify the rapist here like in Lincoln Park. There are many reasons and many groups inside of Afghanistan. And many fight for other reasons. Could you imagine that some might even do it ... *gasp* for a living? Just like some of the US soldiers which joined neither for patriotism or heroism but because they get their collegue fees payed by the US army? Or those mercenaries from Blackwater which no one cares about either or would ever start to see the whole US governement as "inhuman" because some of those mercenaries are basically acting like war criminals?

I love black and white scenarios. It sooooo nice to have them. Makes you feel all fuzzy and warm inside knowing "that you are fighting on the right side".

Though this kind of mindset wasnt already true or right in WW2 when the good allies fought the evil German Nazis. Historians today tend to get a more ambivalent view on it. Right and wrong are often enough equal to Winner and Looser in such cases. Not saying Nazis are "right" or what ever. But we should really try to get away from this generalisaiton. Particularly when you consider how easy it is actually to find parts of the US history which dont tell a that great story either. Antisemitism was during the 20s and 30s quite popular. And believe it or not but Berlin was during the 20s a very liberal town. More then most US towns of that time. One can only guess how history might have turned out if someone like Ford would have been President in the US of which was not known for his love of "jews". In fact Hitler was impressed by Ford. Many US companies made a huge fortune on selling war goods to Germany, including very important material like Tetraethyllead. Interesting enough without it NO German aircraft would have ever started flying. IBM, Ford and many others really loved to sell their stuff to the German military. If they requiest from like one day to the other some 10 000 trucks and the next month the Germans invaded some neighboure (literaly) its not hard to assume what might happen next. Was that a reason to stop any business with them? Ford, General Electrics, General Motors and many more have been seen as "heroes" after the War. Its very easy to forget. Particularly when you want to keep an image of the winner and the loser. The good and the evil side. People like John Rabe which have been Nazis and yet helping to save thousands of Chinese civilians from the Japanese dont fitt in to this.

Its strange when you think about it in relation with "terrorism" today. Seems like we really didnt learn anything from history ...

Never forget who is selling those people which attack the US today the weapons.

- 5 biggest are USA, Britain, France, Russia and China.

 

[TheGM]

So all Afghan fighters are the same for you?

Yeah pretty much.

Hmm ... let me take a closer look then.

Go right ahead.....I'm just gonna snip it.

There was once some organisation. Lets call them C.I.A . And there was another group, which we will ... call the Contras. The Contras have been evil. Really evil I mean. Like. Hitler evil (Tagaziel will love this). It was bad to give them money. Like really evil. But someone at the C.I.A. thought it would be still fun to do so. But of course. You cant do it officialy! That would be evil too. So they allowed the Contrals to sell drugs on US streets and the CIA sold weapons to the Iran which was in a war with the Iraq. Which is evil as well but no one cared about it. The money was used to support the Contras which has done of course more evil things.

What the hell do you have against Bill and Lance?

*A thesis on why Crni hates Freedom and History for some reason*

So let me get this straight.

You hate Bill and Lance.
Hate Freedom.
Hate America.
Something about Nazis being portrayed wrong.
and somehow Ireland is at fault for World War 2.

I get it.....You're a member of The Red Falcon Organization.

I'm on to you.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

The Contras have been evil. Really evil I mean. Like. Hitler evil (Tagaziel will love this). It was bad to give them money. Like really evil. But someone at the C.I.A. thought it would be still fun to do so. But of course. You cant do it officialy! That would be evil too. So they allowed the Contrals to sell drugs on US streets and the CIA sold weapons to the Iran which was in a war with the Iraq. Which is evil as well but no one cared about it. The money was used to support the Contras which has done of course more evil things.

...

I love black and white scenarios. It sooooo nice to have them. Makes you feel all fuzzy and warm inside knowing "that you are fighting on the right side".

This with the "self-aware" Calvin comic cracks me up.

Iran/Contra scandal is way more complex than that, to high-horse and accuse others of seeing things binary when doing it in the same breath. What is this, church?

 

[Crni Vuk]

so in other words USA can do no wrong while all the others are evil.

Iran/Contra scandal is way more complex than that, to high-horse and accuse others of seeing things binary when doing it in the same breath. What is this, church?

yeah when people do bad things its usually always complex.

Why cant the same be true for "others" as well? Like Afghan fighters. Or Nazis. And so on.

So all Afghan fighters are the same for you?

Yeah pretty much.

Then of course all american people are the same as well.

ah aren't generalizations awesome.

 

[TorontoReign]

so in other words USA can do no wrong while all the others are evil.

Iran/Contra scandal is way more complex than that, to high-horse and accuse others of seeing things binary when doing it in the same breath. What is this, church?

yeah when people do bad things its usually always complex.

Why cant the same be true for "others" as well? Like Afghan fighters. Or Nazis. And so on.

Everyone can do wrong regardless of nationality. Anyone who says otherwise is a jackass. Yes, certain issues can be complex, even when those issues involve crazy Nazi bastards, but wrong is wrong right?


Any nation that is governed by humans will always be corrupt somehow. It doesn't matter if it is Germany, United States, or Iran - they all do the same shit.

 

[Crni Vuk]

thats not the point.

The point is that if you take a look at the US history (at least here it seems ...) then it's "complicated" while in Afghanistan everyone of them is a bloodthirsty american hating fanatic zealot that kills with his AK47 americans for his god. - So the Ameircan president which started the war in Afghanistan hasnt done it for his "god" either? Even though he said so? Isnt the thing some americans believe in starting with "In god we trust"? If that all isnt about "religion" then I dont know what it is ...

I guess everyone is the same. Just like how every US soldier is a patriot which is doing his job to server is country and because would happily die for defending freedom.

No. No no. It cant be true that people have eventually different reasons for what they do. It cant be that some Afghan father chose to fight because his house was hit by some US bomb in accident. It cant be true that some Afghan fighter is doing it for the money he gets because basically there is nothing else he can do for a living. No it cant be true that some of the people which have grown up in Afghanistan never had any other education then with their AK47.

If we don't try to understand the situation then we will be doomed to repeat it all the time. How comes that people with education, which are seen as "leaders" see the similarity between what the Soviets did in the late 80s in Afghanistan and what the NATO is doing now? They try to control a huge territory, yet they only manage to protect a few spots on the map (and even that rather poorly) while the rest of Afghanistan is a no-mans-land for any NATO personal.

Is that their understanding from "defending" freedom? I would not be surprised if we move out form Afghanistan in 10 years, nothing has changed at all and it still is a hell hole. And then you have to answer those question.. What was it all good for?

All I am trying to say is that people cant be always thrown in one group. Particularly not in Afghanistan which is about thousands of different communities all with their own problems. Corruption is very high.

 

[TheGM]

so in other words USA can do no wrong while all the others are evil.

No. I don't where you got that idea?

Just NATO.

Meanwhile in America.

Americans gotta America.

Meanwhile in Not America.

Freedom haters gonna hate.

 

[Brother None]

Ok, that's enough trolling for me. You're just abusing poor Vuk by this point. Locked.