Fallout 2 mod Throwing Rebalance

[laclongquan]

Actually, a fix to base Throwing skill formula would be nice. Make it a similar formula to unarmed or melee. That way it's not as horrifically bad and people will occassionally use it to throw grenades uninvested.

My simplest scenario is to follow that thinking.

 

[Lexx]

But then why ever invest in it in the first place?

 

[Vali]

My problem with adding new items is that you then lose potential compatibility with other mods.

I'd rather try to improve the situation with editing existing protos and maybe adding new perks via global scripts. Then such a throwing overhaul mod easily works with any Fo2 mod.

For example I agree that AP cost and damage of throwing knifes is hilariously bad. They are useless in the beginning of the game because you barely hit stuff, and they are useless in late game, because you don't deal any damage. This must be fixed.

Other than that I never saw throwing as a main combat skill. It exists as support ... if you want to use it as your main thing to take down critters, imo you're doing it wrong.

Yes that is a problem with compatibility when you include new stuff youre right.

To add new perks is a good idea..

But i say it how it is you say it too i also use throwing(Grenades) only sometimes when enemies are near in a group and you do some splash damage but really as main attack no i never use spears or knifes to throw. I think many people do it like this..

 

[laclongquan]

But then why ever invest in it in the first place?

So that people would have halfway decent skill to at least check it out? With 50~ like unarmed, it's a possibility, you could try throwing once without too much worry that it will land on your feet. With the current 20~ noone would risk a misthrow with a grenade.

You know Unarmed and melee. Even with gun players, they sometimes dare try using those actions a bit, especially early game. mostly because those skills got such high starting base their skill is a bit encouraging to try once or twice.

 

[Vali]

So that people would have halfway decent skill to at least check it out? With 50~ like unarmed, it's a possibility, you could try throwing once without too much worry that it will land on your feet. With the current 20~ noone would risk a misthrow with a grenade.

You know Unarmed and melee. Even with gun players, they sometimes dare try using those actions a bit, especially early game. mostly because those skills got such high starting base their skill is a bit encouraging to try once or twice.

I never skill unarmed or melee in temple of trials i use kick. then in klamath i find the pistol.. I only skill small guns in early game then big guns.... Last energy weapons.. I only give some skill points to throw to use sometimes Grenades.

 

[gustarballs1983]

Could it be fixed by drastically improved critical hit chances? A knife is never going to do as much damage as a minigun, but a knife anywhere in the body seems like a critical hit, and probably a crippling injury, until fixed.

Hence why in my previous post in this thread i propose not to increase crit chance but increase 'Better Criticals %' for thrown melee weapons. Better criticals don't up only the damage per itself, instead they increase the roll for more dramatical effects with a d100 roll by adding +20 to the roll. Different body parts have different effects attached to them, and not all have insta death. Some body parts have no insta death at all in any crit roll range. hence why as You've said, Succesfull targeted crit with thrown weapon should guarantee the effect from the crit d100 table. Hence why i propose to add more % better criticals to thorwn weapons, guaranteeing more damage not only by multipilers but aslo by special effects +100% better criticals yealds best effect. causing even throwing a rock to the eyes to cause insta death ( but only when sccoring a crit) and crit chance is at maximum 35% for thrown weapons. Sniper does not work for trhrown.

 

[kokeeby]

Whatever rebalances you make, please don't make it part of sfall. Thank you

As far as rebalancing goes, I'd like to see sniper-like perk for throwing. It's the only combat skill, that doesn't have one.

 

[gustarballs1983]

Whatever rebalances you make, please don't make it part of sfall. Thank you

As far as rebalancing goes, I'd like to see sniper-like perk for throwing. It's the only combat skill, that doesn't have one.

it's not a wisest idea since most of thrown weapons have shit damage and only plasma grenades would end up usefull with 100% crit.
better keep the 'current' crit chance and guarantee a kill or cripple on crit. for example by adding functionality to better criticals perk or by global script.

 

[kokeeby]

it's not a wisest idea since most of thrown weapons have shit damage and only plasma grenades would end up usefull with 100% crit.
better keep the crit chance and guarantee a kill or cripple on crit

Body slots usually have instadeath effect, no? With better criticals, even frag grenade on critical can prove deadly. That said, I mostly proposed the sniper-perk out of symmetry, i.e. it's the only combat skill that doesn't have one. Maybe making better criticals stronger is the better of the two.

That said, I think the skill investment necesarry to use grenades is fine. Throwing benefits from perception, you can pop 2 mentats for quick aim improvement, and grenades are aimed at torso, so no Eyeshot penalties. I used grenades ocasionally with the starting skill and it was fine, with a level worth of skill points invested it would be doublyfine.

 

[gustarballs1983]

the better criticals method enables usefulness of other thrown weapons not just aoe grenades. there are moments whrere you dont want to use grenades, for example melee mobs swarming around you or melee mobs attacking non agressive non party NPCs, for example merchant+guards attacked by bandits. usually you want to kill the bandits but save the merchant. with grenades it might proove imposiible. Melee thrown weapons could do the trick, but they lack damage. besides better criticals +100% or perhaps +200% ( because i don't know wheather crit table roll can turn out negative) will "guaranteee" special effect. Stage 6 crit effect torso is insta death for most critters anyway, so it's only a matter of scoring a critical hit ( which couldn't be 100% at the same time because it would be OP)

and No not all body slots have insta death effect on them. as i said earlier some body parts dont have them, at least for some critters, as it is settled per critter per body part.

 

[kokeeby]

I think they're comparable, non-grenade throwing weapons would benefit from sniper-like perk just as well. It's a matter of number crunching, 100% crit chance with 20% instadeath effect(sniper-like) vs. 35% critchance with 100% instadeath effect(improved better criticals). However, if better criticals guarantees instadeath, then flares are OP, since you would have 95% crit chance (eye shot) with 100% instadeath effect @ 1AP. With sniper-like perk, flares would still only have about 20% instadeath, so not that OP.

Edit: "Body slot" in the previous post meant torso slot. Most creatures in their torso slot have instadeath. Not all, but most.

 

[gustarballs1983]

Yeah flares were always wrong in this game. How come throwing anything else costs at least 3-4 AP but flares 1?
Personally in My opinion they shoudn't be weapons anyway, but in the case of least messing with the game to fix throwig 100% crit chance and 35-40% better criticals could be better, since otherwise the normal crit damage would be too low for anything besides grenades. And damage multipiler (at least for body Uncalled) scales with better criticals somewhat. so even with 100% crit chance you may still only do 1,5x dmg so thrown melee weapons would still suck most of the time.

 

[kokeeby]

Also as far as knives are concerned, one thing I like is a "bleeding" type of damage. Damage over time where enemy bleeds to death. Now I don't know if something like that could be implemented, but I think it's something that would give "cold" weapons more character.

Edit: Although now that I think about it, that's probably not entirely throwing related

 

[gustarballs1983]

yeah but it would need balancing as well. imagine you are low level and encounter let's say 3 enemies with throwing knives, and they hit you with those knives. low level player gets killed high level player plows backpack for stimpacks. Long story short probably too much work for a least invasive fix.

Is by "cold" weapons you assume melee? They're not coupled with this word all around the world just so you know As far as I remember melee is called "cold/chilly weapons" in Russian, at least melee is called like that in Sonora.

 

[laclongquan]

Bleeding is a nonstarter until modder can fix Poison status.

This also remind me: Why is there no instant death trap at all? if there is, people would at least have reasons to invest in Traps. Is there any way to fix crit effect of traps? Or at least, raise the damage so that even using stim to eat damage would be expensive.

 

[laclongquan]

@Lexx and other modders: Is there any way to change Poison status? Like increase the amount of lost HP it affect characters, or how quick it happened.

I do want a small quick mod to test that idea out. The only way to see if it work ingame is real testing, after all.

 

[Lexx]

Poison damage depends on how high you are poisoned. Don't know what the highest value is, and how exactly the mechanic works, though. Also I think poison doesn't work on non-player critters, but I'm not sure about this either.

 

[Vali]

@Lexx and other modders: Is there any way to change Poison status? Like increase the amount of lost HP it affect characters, or how quick it happened.

I do want a small quick mod to test that idea out. The only way to see if it work ingame is real testing, after all.

Yes this can manage via script like the radiation you must set the time and the amount... You want this thing like at the glow in fallout 1 right (in this area you become radiation doses) .

I think poison and radiation only works for the player..

 

[laclongquan]

Yeah, I do have a few test on critters with poison and no effect, it just plain didnt work on them.

15 poison item on a prostitute: nada.
3 poison item on Chosen One: take a Cat Paw course and woke up dead, -108HP on the counter.

3 poison item = 3x35 = 105 poison point.

It gotta be at that level to work noticeably. You have to immediately take an antidote after battle.
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And it gotta be at universal level to work simply and easily. because otherwise we would have to mod existing creature attack, and dialog scripts. Like radscorpions' poisonous attacks.

 

[Vali]

Yeah, I do have a few test on critters with poison and no effect, but I dont know if it's due to low amount of poison, or it just plain didnt work on them.

In items when you make a item you can give it - Hps this works also on critters...