Todd Howard suggests that they'll start on Fallout 5 soon

[CT Phipps]

When people say the capital wasteland they mean the entire map of Fallout 3, not just the literal capital, dumbass. Now this is just goalpost moving because of the fact that claiming that it was harder by nukes makes no sense.

I am dying of the sheer radscorpion venom on display where you have to mutiliate my argument to even attempt to discuss it.

Doesn't change the fact that two hundred fucking years has passed and yet people have somehow survived in a place with no way to reliably get food and water. And only NOW someone decides that maybe a reliable source of water is important, making you question how people survived for so long. Do you know how long is 200 years? I can name all the major events that has happened to humanity in that time.

I wondered if you'd even bother reading what I wrote but you didn't so why bother?

Megaton: Cistern and water purifier
Rivet City: Ocean (Food and Water)
Vault: Self-sufficient.

Since that's all listed above and you didn't pay any attention, it's pointless to argue.

Your opinion doesn't matter because your opinion is fucking wrong, just concede that you're wrong.

I could talk all the live long day about Fallout 3 but since you don't bother reading it, what's the point.

The worldbuilding of Fallout 3 makes no logical sense whatsoever. It's fine that you like exploring its world, but worldbuilding of Fallout 3 is factually badly made because Bethesda didn't care for it to make any logical sense, they just wanted a blown out wasteland.

It's more about mood than worldbuilding and it has its flaws but it's a lot more imaginative and interesting than most games by far.

The GECK is also not some magical bullshit that Fallout 3 seems to think it is, it's an agricultural starter kit. It's not something you use and the area is instantly hospitable.

No, shit. Why they attach it to a larger purifier to purifer the fucking Basin.

 

[Homer2137]

Come on guys, don't fight, I myself in the middle of this opinion, I think Fallout 3 makes no sense at all, but at the same time I want to find ways it could make sense.

 

[CT Phipps]

Come on guys, don't fight, I myself in the middle of this opinion, I think Fallout 3 makes no sense at all, but at the same time I want to find ways it could make sense.

Sorry, I become a psychopathic raider on these forums.

 

[Risewild]

There is actually branching paths, but they forgot to add an ending to each path

If anything, Starfield just proves that they aren't going to change any time soon.

It's funny that you mention that they forgot to add an ending for each path in FO4 and also mention that Starfield just proves they aren't going to change, because...
... they forgot to come up with the final quest for Starfield until after the game was already pretty much finished ("We were finally at a state in the project where we could play through the whole [game]").

Then they stumbled around because they were running out of time before the game would be released and quickly came up with the final quest that would "tie the whole story together" for Starfield (thanks to one person, Steve Cornett) and managed to implement it on time.

Also, apparently, more than 500 people worked on Starfield, while only around 100 worked on Skyrim and 150 on FO4. I guess too many cooks do spoil the broth. For comparison, when they released Morrowind, they only had something like 6 people who worked on the game left.

This is yet another proof that Bethesda doesn't do design documents and just makes stuff up as they think about it while they are making the game. Who forgets to come up with a final quest for their immersive sim, action "RPG" until the game is pretty much finished?

Here's the source:
Starfield's lead quest designer had 'absolutely no time' and had to hit the 'panic button' so the game would have a satisfying final quest

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

Megaton: Cistern and water purifier
Rivet City: Ocean (Food and Water)

I’ll give you Megaton, they do explicitly have a water purifier. I guess we can assume Rivet City has a water purifier, though we don’t see one iirc. They might’ve been using Jefferson Memorial as a water purifier/desalination plant, but it seems to have been taken over by Super Mutants since the Brotherhood abandoned it around the time the Lone Wanderer was born. As for food though, I remember dialogue in Rivet City that specifically says that every once in a while some dumbass will try to eat a fish from the river and they’ll get really sick from it, so I don’t think they’re getting food from the ocean if we’re expected to believe that line of dialogue.

Also, I don’t doubt that Capital Wastelanders have plenty of sources of meat, but humans need plants to survive. The only plant-based foods I remember seeing is the hydroponic farm in Rivet City (and maybe those potted plants on the deck), and it doesn’t seem like that could provide enough nutrition for everyone in the wasteland.

Really, I think we’re supposed to believe that everyone has been surviving off pre-war food for two centuries.

 

[CT Phipps]

I’ll give you Megaton, they do explicitly have a water purifier. I guess we can assume Rivet City has a water purifier, though we don’t see one iirc. They might’ve been using Jefferson Memorial as a water purifier/desalination plant, but it seems to have been taken over by Super Mutants since the Brotherhood abandoned it around the time the Lone Wanderer was born. As for food though, I remember dialogue in Rivet City that specifically says that every once in a while some dumbass will try to eat a fish from the river and they’ll get really sick from it, so I don’t think they’re getting food from the ocean if we’re expected to believe that line of dialogue.

Also, I don’t doubt that Capital Wastelanders have plenty of sources of meat, but humans need plants to survive. The only plant-based foods I remember seeing is the hydroponic farm in Rivet City (and maybe those potted plants on the deck), and it doesn’t seem like that could provide enough nutrition for everyone in the wasteland.

Really, I think we’re supposed to believe that everyone has been surviving off pre-war food for two centuries.

I'm assuming that you have to prepare whatever you catch from the sea as any other animal you kill in the Wasteland. There's no non-irradiated life in terms of animals after all. I think we're meant to also assume the Aircraft Carrier grows its own food via the hydroponics system that we see sometimes.

Part of the issue is the scaling down of Bethesda games that is there in all games. After all, New Reno is not just three streets either.

Did we need more farm territory around Megaton or perhaps on the carrier deck? Perhaps.

Still, they are in fact shown to be there. I also liked the fact that Megaton is built around a nuclear bomb not just for atmosphere but because the bomb crater made a natural lake.

 

[Homer2137]

I'm assuming that you have to prepare whatever you catch from the sea as any other animal you kill in the Wasteland. There's no non-irradiated life in terms of animals after all. I think we're meant to also assume the Aircraft Carrier grows its own food via the hydroponics system that we see sometimes.

Part of the issue is the scaling down of Bethesda games that is there in all games. After all, New Reno is not just three streets either.

Did we need more farm territory around Megaton or perhaps on the carrier deck? Perhaps.

Still, they are in fact shown to be there. I also liked the fact that Megaton is built around a nuclear bomb not just for atmosphere but because the bomb crater made a natural lake.

Yeah, part of why worldbuilding is ass, is because locations in-game are scaled down versions of the lore locations, even Classic Fallouts suffer from this.

 

[R.Graves]

I’ll give you Megaton, they do explicitly have a water purifier. I

They have a water purifier who No one seems to be in charge of. It's on the fritz and no one seems to care because I guess people don't need good water unless we're talking about random bums or the main quest. There's one guy with no apprentice in charge of fixing it and he's too old to do it. Seeing that Megaton is supposedly civilization the fact that they have no government or anything to regulate something this important is bad worldbuilding. The fact that on top of that characters don't even care if they have water makes it even worse. The fact that this contradicts the main plot 2 minutes after leaving the vault makes it EVEN MORE worse. It's actually garbage tier worldbuilding.

guess we can assume Rivet City has a water purifier, though we don’t see one

"Maybe the have X and we just don't see it" is just writing the game for them after the fact. This is shit we should've been seeing if the game was going to have good worldbuilding.

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

They have a water purifier who No one seems to be in charge of. It's on the fritz and no one seems to care because I guess people don't need good water unless we're talking about random bums or the main quest. There's one guy with no apprentice in charge of fixing it and he's too old to do it. Seeing that Megaton is supposedly civilization the fact that they have no government or anything to regulate something this important is bad worldbuilding. The fact that on top of that characters don't even care if they have water makes it even worse. The fact that this contradicts the main plot 2 minutes after leaving the vault makes it EVEN MORE worse. It's actually garbage tier worldbuilding.


"Maybe the have X and we just don't see it" is just writing the game for them after the fact. This is shit we should've been seeing if the game was going to have good worldbuilding.

I think the bigger issue is that Megaton is the only place in the game that definitely for sure has a water purifier yet their economy doesn’t seem to be built around it. Why the hell is Canterbury Commons in charge of caravans? Megaton needs to be shipping that shit around to every settlement in the game. But not a single caravan specializes in water trading unless you have Broken Steel installed.

 

[CT Phipps]

They have a water purifier who No one seems to be in charge of. It's on the fritz and no one seems to care because I guess people don't need good water unless we're talking about random bums or the main quest. There's one guy with no apprentice in charge of fixing it and he's too old to do it.

"No one seems to be in charge of" and "one guy with no apprentice in charge of fixing it" literally contradicts yourself in like two sentences.

Seeing that Megaton is supposedly civilization the fact that they have no government or anything to regulate something this important is bad worldbuilding. The fact that on top of that characters don't even care if they have water makes it even worse. The fact that this contradicts the main plot 2 minutes after leaving the vault makes it EVEN MORE worse. It's actually garbage tier worldbuilding

The town with a Sheriff, religious cult, and a crime boss has no formal government position to regulate the guy who runs the water filter because he knows how to fix it. What the fuck kind of bizarre dystopia would you imagine exist post-apocalypse?

"Maybe the have X and we just don't see it" is just writing the game for them after the fact. This is shit we should've been seeing if the game was going to have good worldbuilding.

There's terminal entries talking about the hydroponics gardens and the actual hydroponics gardens and it's right next to the fucking ocean but you are under the impression there's not enough worldbuilding to suggest that they have a water purifier.

 

[Traeger91]

As someone I used to watch once asked. Where is Megatons Jail?

 

[R.Graves]

"No one seems to be in charge of" and "one guy with no apprentice in charge of fixing it" literally contradicts yourself in like two sentences.

Pls do not pretend that having one npc there to give you a quest and nothing else and having a government body in charge municipalities and upkeep are the same thing

The town with a Sheriff, religious cult, and a crime boss has no formal government position to regulate the guy who runs the water filter because he knows how to fix it. What the fuck kind of bizarre dystopia would you imagine exist post-apocalypse?

??? Idk I guess one where people might be concerned about food and water

There's terminal entries talking about the hydroponics gardens and the actual hydroponics gardens and it's right next to the fucking ocean but you are under the impression there's not enough worldbuilding to suggest that they have a water purifier.

Yes I know they have a small hydroponic garden for an entire city. I was just saying that writing the game for them is where the problem comes from to begin with

 

[CT Phipps]

I think the bigger issue is that Megaton is the only place in the game that definitely for sure has a water purifier yet their economy doesn’t seem to be built around it. Why the hell is Canterbury Commons in charge of caravans? Megaton needs to be shipping that shit around to every settlement in the game. But not a single caravan specializes in water trading unless you have Broken Steel installed.

Rather than get deep into this versus suggesting someone open a thread for Fallout 3 worldbuilding, I should point out this is kind of 100% embellic of what people like about the game versus those who hate the game. The Capital Wasteland is a dying civilization versus a functoining one. It is not rebuilding like in Fallout 1, 2, or New Vegas but it is on the verge of collapse.

The region is overrun with Raiders, Super Mutants, The Brotherhood of Steel is trapped in the area around the Pentagon and Washington Mall (which is is not a small area but it's a small part of the map), and there is a massive slaving operation that works with impunity that we eventually find out is working for the warlord of the Pitt.

The depiction of the Capital Wasteland is a hellhole and if you do not do something about it, the region will die out.

The stakes are clear and the problems facing the area are not a single problem but hundreds of them.

 

[CT Phipps]

As someone I used to watch once asked. Where is Megatons Jail?

Probably the same place New Reno or Shady Sands Jail is.

Which is to say that it's anyone who thinks the maps are literal representations of the settlements are deliberately arguing in bad faith.

Mind you, I know people who say, "Shady Sands has crops and a well, therefore it is better designed!"

 

[Traeger91]

I like how the only part of FO3 still talked about today, is it's horrid world building. Obviously if it's still being noticed to this day, by progressively more and more people. The criticism clearly has merit.

Probably the same place New Reno or Shady Sands Jail is.

Which is to say that it's anyone who thinks the maps are literal representations of the settlements are deliberately arguing in bad faith.

Mind you, I know people who say, "Shady Sands has crops and a well, therefore it is better designed!"

Um Shady Sands is a tiny village that doesn't have a Sheriff. New Reno doesn't have a Sheriff and is run by four criminal families. Megaton has a Sheriff that goes to arrest Burke... so where is he going to put him? In the ground? Okay so if that's the case it explains how the slightest transgression leads to immediate assault.

 

[R.Graves]

The stakes are clear and the problems facing the area are not a single problem but hundreds of them

The stakes aren't clear because no one in game seems concerned about any of those problems because those problems weren't considered or incorporated into the writing or worldbuilding beyond just giving the player something to shoot

 

[CT Phipps]

Pls do not pretend that having one npc there to give you a quest and nothing else and having a government body in charge municipalities and upkeep are the same thing

I think anyone who would want to have a government municipality in a horrific hellhole on the verge of extinction is insane actually. It would totally contradict the fact this is a dying civilization.

??? Idk I guess one where people might be concerned about food and water

Yes, hence a guy asks you to fix it.

Yes I know they have a small hydroponic garden for an entire city. I was just saying that writing the game for them is where the problem comes from to begin with

Except for the fact it's large enough to cover their needs and begin actual trading. They sell food throughout the Capital Wasteland. Check the terminal entries.

 

[CT Phipps]

I like how the only part of FO3 still talked about today, is it's horrid world building. Obviously if it's still being noticed to this day, by progressively more and more people. The criticism clearly has merit.

I mean I think everyone largely agrees that it's a fantastic game, one of the best of all time, and it has gone on to create massive numbers of derivative works.

I think we can all agree that more people have come to accept its importance as a masterpiece.

So much so that we can just laugh at the haters at pissing in the wind.

I mean, then you can say, "Magazines don't count!"

User Score being 8.4 on Metacritic.

But then again, you can say plenty of people are morons.

Then you can say, "Well NMA says its terrible!" and I'm still here.

The stakes aren't clear because no one in game seems concerned about any of those problems because those problems weren't considered or incorporated into the writing or worldbuilding beyond just giving the player something to shoot

Except they are, you solve them, and the game has the radio guy talk about them being fixed. You not only do the main quest but hundreds of other little ones that get commented on throughout in their way to making the Capital Wasteland a place that might actually pull through.

 

[Traeger91]

I mean I think everyone largely agrees that it's a fantastic game, one of the best of all time, and it has gone on to create massive numbers of derivative works.

I think we can all agree that more people have come to accept its importance as a masterpiece.

So much so that we can just laugh at the haters at pissing in the wind.



Except they are, you solve them, and the game has the radio guy talk about them being fixed. You not only do the main quest but hundreds of other little ones that get commented on throughout in their way to making the Capital Wasteland a place that might actually pull through.

Can I ask, how do you find the time to write books, when a good chunk of your night is spent arguing with us degenerates?

 

[CT Phipps]

Can I ask, how do you find the time to write books, when a good chunk of your night is spent arguing with us degenerates?

Bizarre fact: This is incredibly therapeutic cleansing of the mind.

I also love a good argument and love y'all.

Especially when you're aggressive and attack my arguments because it forces me to actually think.

Y'all wonderful.