UK Tuition Fee Protests
- Thread starter Threepwood
- Start date
Threepwood
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Shoveler said:
Only by a small margin.
Do you realise this bill also cuts education spending? That it cuts EMA grants?
Anyway, have you also seen any footage from London tonight? It's more or less a battle zone, mounted police have been charging in, and flares are being shot across against police lines.
Threepwood said:
Yea I saw, and dude I can appreciate why people are pissed. I just don't think the rioting is going to help much, your government's got its mind made up that they're going to slash spending on everything. Hopefully the violence will simmer down in the next couple of days/weeks.
Threepwood
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Shoveler said:
It wont die down for a long time.
Nearly EVERY Liberal Democrat signed large cards, and pasted thier pictures all over newspapers, declaring they would NEVER raise tuition fees. They won so many student votes its not funny.
Yesterday, Nick Clegg, Liberal Leader said he'd like to scrap tuition fees. Today he says anybody who thought they could have remained the same is a 'dreamer'.
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
Why haven't I seen a newscast on this? Because the powers that be that control US media know that they don't want their sheep aware that a people still exist that would go to these lengths to fight the government.
Why haven't I seen a newscast on this? Because the powers that be that control US media know that they don't want their sheep aware that a people still exist that would go to these lengths to fight the government.
That, or it's largely irrelevant to US citizens.mobucks said:
Yeah, I'll go with the latter.
rioting in the streets of london would be considered newsworthy anywhere in the (non-third) world 50-100 years ago.
Good sheeple, gooood. Now go along and gossip about Tiger Woods.
Good sheeple, gooood. Now go along and gossip about Tiger Woods.
Hah, rioting.mobucks said:
Student protests. Shit like this happens all over the world every day. It isn't newsworthy.
It's not what you learned, its where you learned it.
And my bad, I figured mounted cavalry charges into protesters was a form of riot control. Silly me.
And my bad, I figured mounted cavalry charges into protesters was a form of riot control. Silly me.
UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Your argument that the 100k loan was acceptable was that people would be graduating and getting 200-250k jobs. That is extremely rare. You also assume that people can find a job in their field that pays well shortly after graduation. That is a pipe dream.Shoveler said:
It takes many students 10-20 years to pay off their college loans, that's hardly affordable.Shoveler said:
Facilities are usually paid for in grants where the university matches what a private donor donates in a grant. Equipment is commonly donated or funded in a similar way.TheWesDude said:
Actually a lot of university professors at US universities are shitty instructors for this very reason, they are there to be researchers and are contractually obligated to teach. Many have grad students teach, which is even worse.Sander said:
Because most american's don't really give a fuck about education and Wikileaks is a much more sensational news story for 24/7 networks to cover.mobucks said:
Well, free (or mostly free) education would mean socialism, which is almost communism which is obviously a crime against Gods will!Blakut said:
Seriously, I have no idea. The educational quality at MIT isn't much better than at RWTH. All the money from tuition goes into research and it doesn't really benefit the students.
I guess (at least for the american proponents of insanely high tuition fees) it's a cultural thing. If you don't pay obscene amounts of money for it, it's worthless. It's a mentality that has been developed over centuries, just like the concept of free education in most european countries. There's no point arguing about it, in my opinion. Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages.
Growing up, living in and currently using a system with pretty low tuition fees, naturally I align myself with the students in the UK.
The Lib-Dems now taking advantage and going for voters is pretty ridiculous, though
These aren't widespread, highly problematic riots that are the precursor to a civil war or anything. They're student protests. No more, no less.mobucks said:
Also, <a>frontpage of the NY Times</a>. THE SHEEPLE ARE BEING KEPT IN THE DARK BY THE EVIL MEDIA
Because it's not actually free, but the studies are paid for through taxes. It's a political decision to have the state pay for education.Blakut said:
Also, top-level US education suffers from inflation in price due to the exclusivity of those diplomas, not necessarily because the education is so much better.
Threepwood
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
@ Sander, last night the 'student protests' officially turned into riots:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRKcPZt61SQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEGyvDGcI1E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAgssbMubi8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70iSH7pby-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4HsUn0opMU
I could go on.
Edit: the videos should be watched in thier entiretey, as many seem to spend half the time giving context and 'build up'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRKcPZt61SQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEGyvDGcI1E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAgssbMubi8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70iSH7pby-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4HsUn0opMU
I could go on.
Edit: the videos should be watched in thier entiretey, as many seem to spend half the time giving context and 'build up'.
Threepwood said:
That's still not a sign that the masses of citiziens are against that.
Every labour day you got riots in some german cities but they don't mean shit - because it's only about a few thousand people who like to destroy cars and make a few fires and such....
But i don't judge the situation in GB by saying that. It could be widespread or not, i got no real information on how serious this is.
No deaths, just minor injuries and some destruction of property. It's a riot, I guess, but not a particularly serious one.Threepwood said:
Look, I'm not saying this stuff is normal, but it's hardly shocking and it's largely irrelevant for US citizens. Which is why it isn't a major news item there, unlike Wikileaks which is relevant for the US.
Plus, the idea that the media are keeping everyone in the dark is retarded as both the Wall Street Journal and New York Times featured this on their front page. It's being covered by the news outlets for whose target audience this is relevant. It's hardly being covered by FOX because it's not relevant for their viewers.
Threepwood
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
I'm sure there is coverage, I wasn't arguing that, I just wanted to share a few interesting clips to emphasise, what is to me, a very important event.
There was a broken neck I bielive, and the car of The Prince of Wales, and his wife, Camilla, was almost overturned, and they were attacked.
As the winning vote was by a margin of 21, that shows the level of opposition. Amongst Mp's anyway.
UncannyGarlic said:
As I said before, this is an example, most people don't rack up 100k, but even if they did, and they landed a job making 100k a year, which is not that difficult. That's 8k a month pay, for a loan payment that is 1k a month. That is affordable and worth it as well. People act like these students are flipping burgers after they graduate, for the most part, they're not. One of the reason unemployment is high, is people hoping for the pie in the sky job. 100k isn't good enough, so they'll sit out until it improves. The first payment in most case isn't due for 6 months, moreover, having a couple of conversations with your lender can get you defer payments until your situation improves, which it undoubtedly will.
Uh, that is NORMAL. I'd rather pay back a loan for 10 years than pay 20% more in taxes for the rest of my life. To me, THAT is unaffordable.UncannyGarlic said:
Regardless, as I already stated it doesn't seem to matter what the loans are or tuition is. Many people in Britain are not paying their tuition fee they owe, to the tune of 341k payment defaulters. That's 341,000 people that aren't up to date on their payments. Now it'll get much worse with the increase.