Ilosar
Vault Fossil
Most impressive. I'm not a fan of the Wikipedia dialog, but aside from that this looks exactly like what was promised.
Wasteland 2 first look video released, update
- Thread starter WorstUsernameEver
- Start date
Vault Fossil
valcik
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Merde, I was afraid of rotating camera from the very beginning.Surf Solar said:
At least sounds are excellent.
OMG! customizable UI! Thats ... wow! No really. Its something I have not seen in many games.
Game looks pretty awesome so far!
Game looks pretty awesome so far!
as long as Key NPC have some decent aka Baldurs Gate like voice acting where a few lines are spoken I am fine with it.Ilosar said:
I see W2 a bit like a midle-finger to all those super-expensive-block-buster games out there with AAA high budged that killed those kind of gameplay because "it doesnt sell" or some crap like that. I mean its all about marketing anyway. Because I dont believe there is no demand for it or that you could not create a great game with top down turn based gameplay. Its just a lot harder to do it right compared to some "action game" like Skyrim for example. Or CoD for that matter.Lexx said:
I cannot wait for the finished game. Awesome. Good good stuff. 
also plusto:
Stop bashing Surf guys! He's cool and not afraid of Wasteland2 fans!
I mean at least he is a different opinion on NMA which is usually a hive mind like community.
Stop bashing Surf guys! He's cool and not afraid of Wasteland2 fans!
I mean at least he is a different opinion on NMA which is usually a hive mind like community.
Keywords dialogue system make the dialogue much more complex, it doesn't simplify it.
You have to find clues, have to think a little bit, not have pre generated line with a silly click auto win option.
Makes the game much more reactive of what you know and what you are going to learn, hiding stuff unless you put a little effort to discover things.
I can understand people wanting auto generated cool lines but it is a simplification of the gameplay.
It seems to me a lot of people are unable to realize the huge potential of this system and only see his drawback.
Moreover dialogue trees system is much more adapted to single player cRPG. In party cRPG it works much better if you imagine your part of the dialogue, it is not stupid at all.
I have good hope though that if this dialogue system remains people will ultimately acknowledge his quality.
You have to find clues, have to think a little bit, not have pre generated line with a silly click auto win option.
Makes the game much more reactive of what you know and what you are going to learn, hiding stuff unless you put a little effort to discover things.
I can understand people wanting auto generated cool lines but it is a simplification of the gameplay.
It seems to me a lot of people are unable to realize the huge potential of this system and only see his drawback.
Moreover dialogue trees system is much more adapted to single player cRPG. In party cRPG it works much better if you imagine your part of the dialogue, it is not stupid at all.
I have good hope though that if this dialogue system remains people will ultimately acknowledge his quality.
AnotherZaphod
First time out of the vault
Sobboth said:
First post on NMA. I'm very happy with what has been shown in the video but I am a little puzzled by the dialogue system.
I can see how it works fine for simple questions like they demonstrated in the video, e.g. Tell me about/Discuss Snake Vargas, Ace, Killer Tomatoes etc. But how would the ranger group express an opinion, intimidate or engage in diplomacy?
I haven't seen a keyword based dialogue system operate before, so I am genuinely curious.
HoboWithAGlock
First time out of the vault
I re-logged back in to this account just to comment on the video.
I have to say that I like everything, with a caveat for the dialogue system. As much as I feel it can work (it reminds me a lot of Morrowind's dialogue system, and there was no problem of depth there), I don't know if i like the way it feels here. The key words could work, and perhaps I'm wanting it to be Fallout 1 and 2 too much, but I really did wish for some interesting conversation choices that would represent the intelligence and charisma of the characters.
So far it seems pretty lacking, but certainly capable of being done well in the end.
I have to say that I like everything, with a caveat for the dialogue system. As much as I feel it can work (it reminds me a lot of Morrowind's dialogue system, and there was no problem of depth there), I don't know if i like the way it feels here. The key words could work, and perhaps I'm wanting it to be Fallout 1 and 2 too much, but I really did wish for some interesting conversation choices that would represent the intelligence and charisma of the characters.
So far it seems pretty lacking, but certainly capable of being done well in the end.
AnotherZaphod said:
I can see them adding global or conditional keywords to just that effect ("Haggle," "Intimidate," "Negotiate," etc), but honestly, I was quite curious about this, too. I usually prefer to play diplomats and peacemakers, but Wasteland 2 is as much a tactical combat game as an RPG, and, as with Fallout Tactics, maybe we'll end up just having to accept that the Rangers are a military organization and their primary raison d'etre isn't smooth talking or crisis counseling.
Izual
Pipe rifle & chopsticks
They wouldn't express their opinion. Keywords systems are quite shitty if you're looking for living a roleplay experience.AnotherZaphod said:
What I mean is, in Fallout 1/2 for example, a dialog is complex because you have to chose between different complex sentences/approach or you are delighted by choosing a particularly amusing sentence to say. On the other hand, you can't invent your own stories. In keywords-based dialogs, you're free to imagine what your character says, which allow you to roleplay your own stories in your head. I can imagine it's because W2 is more about missions and squad than living your life in the wastes and encountering remarkable characters, which Fallout is about.
So yeah. Keywords = freedom, but it also totally breaks the immersion for me, as well as making me feel like I'm playing an INT1 char in a particularly boring Fallout 2 run.
Edit: So yeah, Yamu above me confirmed it a bit, Wasteland2 is not really about dialogs. Which is why the wiki-based dialogs make sense, so that you can hear whatever information you want to hear.
AnotherZaphod
First time out of the vault
Izual said:
Looks like my expectations were wrong then. That is a shame, but the game looks good otherwise.
Izual
Pipe rifle & chopsticks
On the french Nukacola forum, back in the old days before the release of Fallout 3, there was someone - I think his name was Margenal - talking about how Bethesda managed dialogs in their games.
He told us about something that happened to him in Oblivion, which, as you said, uses keywords dialogs. He had to rescue someone named Lucius, I believe. When he arrived at Lucius' location, after fighting some monsters he had to kill a scary, mindless and aggressive zombie, which, he discovered soon after, was in fact Lucius, cursed or whatever. He then went back to the quest giver, wondering if he should apologize and tell him that he killed the man he had to rescue, or get angry and ask furiously for more than he was to be paid, since a mindless zombie had tried to rip him off, and hell, it wasn't in the plan!
Well, he came back to the quest giver and the only dialog he had was:
> Lucius
> Goodbye
So, yup. Keywords, keywords...
He told us about something that happened to him in Oblivion, which, as you said, uses keywords dialogs. He had to rescue someone named Lucius, I believe. When he arrived at Lucius' location, after fighting some monsters he had to kill a scary, mindless and aggressive zombie, which, he discovered soon after, was in fact Lucius, cursed or whatever. He then went back to the quest giver, wondering if he should apologize and tell him that he killed the man he had to rescue, or get angry and ask furiously for more than he was to be paid, since a mindless zombie had tried to rip him off, and hell, it wasn't in the plan!
Well, he came back to the quest giver and the only dialog he had was:
> Lucius
> Goodbye
So, yup. Keywords, keywords...
But that has nothing to do with keywords system !Izual said:
You could find exact similar experience with dialogue tree system always showing the same stupid lines while things have changed and no new lines have been made while the old ones are no more appropriate.
It is awful implementation.
Moreover Bethesda an dialogues...
So yup, dialogue tree....
A better concern is how to make diplomacy or such things work with this system to make dialogues a skill check and C&C provider.
And i can think of some few ways of doing it quite easily.
I'm quite confident unlike you and some others (not a critic) Inxile will/have find away to solve this aspect and that you will as much option as in fallout dialog wise, the NPC not being only data provider.
dukem
First time out of the vault
as a fan of fallout1+2 who did not play wasteland1.
I am also very happy. The way the party works seems like taking fallout and enhancing it from my pov. I always hated the mostly computer steered companions to be in the way (sometimes you even got stuck "fuck, Ian get out of the door!!")
Looked at the video and said to myself "yes I can imagine having fun in this game"
I am also very happy. The way the party works seems like taking fallout and enhancing it from my pov. I always hated the mostly computer steered companions to be in the way (sometimes you even got stuck "fuck, Ian get out of the door!!")
Looked at the video and said to myself "yes I can imagine having fun in this game"
aenemic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Sobboth said:
exactly, that's just horrible wiriting. or simply a lack of a real dialogue system. just look at Skyrim. you now have full sentences, but does it provide more choices and ability to role-play than Oblivion? only in a handful of occasions. most of the time, the different options will end with the same results, or you will simply have one sentence to choose from.
like the guy said in the video, they will have deep dialogue trees where you can even be shut out of certain branches, as I understood it. I'm really curious to see how this will work with the keyword system, but I imagine we will simply get several buttons representing different attitudes, answers, questions etc. the tricky part is having them obvious enough so that the player knows what he's about to say/do.
This looks spot on. I'm very happy I contributed at this point, though I would also jump on the "not 100% happy about the dialogue system" bandwagon. The atmosphere really captures what I think of when I think of Wasteland (or what I hoped for Van Buren, for that matter).
Incase anyone is freaking out about how big the UI looked, I wouldn't. They're most likely playing on a small resolution as many do when they record gameplay. 1280x760 perhaps? Also, I imagine they're going to improve the keywords system now, it might be like morrowind where sometimes dialogue options would open up into full sentences within a keyword.