Wasteland 2 released!

[Jubal Quintus]

Stating the obvious, yes?

If it were obvious, you wouldn't be so generously gifting us with your input. If you don't like a thing and you avoid that thing then your criticism of that thing is worthless. If someone hates all Chinese food then no one in the world is going to be interested in their opinion of the new Chinese restaurant in the neighborhood. Further, if that person, who hates Chinese food, goes to a Chinese food appreciation board specifically to tell the Chinese food enthusiasts that they don't care for the new restaurant, then I'd have to question their motives and/or mental health.

I'm glad that you found something worth liking in Fallout: Tactics. I found it to be lackluster and fairly worthless, notable only for how blatantly it shunned canon (until Fallout 3 came along to really outshine it in that regard). I am curious though what you found so "realistic" about a game where people and cars move one at a time and humans can survive multiple gunshot wounds without even skipping a beat.

 

[1fps-warlock]

Stating the obvious, yes?

If it were obvious, you wouldn't be so generously gifting us with your input. If you don't like a thing and you avoid that thing then your criticism of that thing is worthless. If someone hates all Chinese food then no one in the world is going to be interested in their opinion of the new Chinese restaurant in the neighborhood. Further, if that person, who hates Chinese food, goes to a Chinese food appreciation board specifically to tell the Chinese food enthusiasts that they don't care for the new restaurant, then I'd have to question their motives and/or mental health.

I'm glad that you found something worth liking in Fallout: Tactics. I found it to be lackluster and fairly worthless, notable only for how blatantly it shunned canon (until Fallout 3 came along to really outshine it in that regard). I am curious though what you found so "realistic" about a game where people and cars move one at a time and humans can survive multiple gunshot wounds without even skipping a beat.

It was fairly obvious that I didn't like the combat from my first post, which you kindly translated into a pack of metaphores and various other drivel.
Apart from personal attack, there isn't any useful info in any of your replies. Stating that only positive feedback matters is laughable.
You must be very much personally involved with the project, to let your bias show like this.
I just look at it objectively, it's not my problem you can't handle criticism.

 

[woo1108]

First of all, the engine doesn't meet my expectations. From a RTS players' perspective, it's utter crap.
Configuration options are limited to say the least. Unless we fork cash for SDK. Which sucks.

Neither FoT(oh.. it has rea time combat.) and WL2 are not RTS at all.

In tactics, story is just there as a bonus. Combat IS the game, which is what I would expect.
Having a same story all over again on each playthrough is therefore irrelevant, easily skipped and independent of gameplay.

In wasteland (there are many new games doing this) story is a part of core gameplay.
This is made on purpose, to make the game just linear enough to discourage replays and second runs.
Which, in turn, is a deal-breaker for me, because I want a game I won't get bored of in a week.

Just my 2c (10y+ war3 modder)

And combat is bonus to WL2 and "quest" is the game.

I really hate combat-tards.
they don't know quest or dungeon but always combat and combat.
why don't you try JA2 instead of Fallout anyway?

 

[1fps-warlock]

First of all, the engine doesn't meet my expectations. From a RTS players' perspective, it's utter crap.
Configuration options are limited to say the least. Unless we fork cash for SDK. Which sucks.

Neither FoT(oh.. it has rea time combat.) and WL2 are not RTS at all.

One could argue that base assault is a strategy element.

In tactics, story is just there as a bonus. Combat IS the game, which is what I would expect.
Having a same story all over again on each playthrough is therefore irrelevant, easily skipped and independent of gameplay.

In wasteland (there are many new games doing this) story is a part of core gameplay.
This is made on purpose, to make the game just linear enough to discourage replays and second runs.
Which, in turn, is a deal-breaker for me, because I want a game I won't get bored of in a week.

Just my 2c (10y+ war3 modder)

And combat is bonus to WL2 and "quest" is the game.

Well, you got my point. The quest is the game, once the quest is done, you can only repeat the quest, add another quest or quit.
If combat was the game, quest could be modded in by anyone, increasing the userbase and also game potential.
Since we'll probably need SDK to mod combat, this game has potential similar to a bookshelf.
You can keep adding books into it, but it will never become an international space station, which it could've been if the engine allowed it.
It's called monolithic design, which isn't flexible. I don't consider adding cosmetics on top of such design modding. It's just skinning.
If I'm wrong, and the tools, in fact, make the combat flexible and static camera possible, I will write a positive feedback post.
And I do have nice things to say about the game, I just don't consider these things a priority at this time.

 

[woo1108]

I never seen decent quest from mod but saw many good mods that enhances combat.
quest is nothing to do with story.
it's main frame of game, can not be bonus of game.

and even the finest combat game's combat makes me boring eventually(like JA2, Wiz8, DS1 etc.. )

 

[Jubal Quintus]

It was fairly obvious that I didn't like the combat from my first post, which you kindly translated into a pack of metaphores and various other drivel.
Apart from personal attack, there isn't any useful info in any of your replies. Stating that only positive feedback matters is laughable.
You must be very much personally involved with the project, to let your bias show like this.
I just look at it objectively, it's not my problem you can't handle criticism.

Criticism relies firstly on objective review, which you cannot provide. To criticize you have to first engage with the thing you are going to criticize on it's terms and with an objective eye. You do not like story based games and have no interest in them whatsoever yet you want us to listen to why you don't like Wasteland 2, which is a story based game. You undermine your own credibility right from the start. To go back to my metaphor, you are a guy who only likes bratwurst going to a Chinese food forum to tell them how Chinese food fails because it's not bratwurst. That's pointless, as you have no appreciation or objective ability to critique the thing you are supposedly criticizing. In fact, you're just bashing and calling it criticism while demanding to be taken seriously, which you aren't.

Point in fact is that I addressed you point by point and asked you several direct questions, none of which you have directly answered. Your intent and motivations are clear.

 

[aenemic]

In wasteland (there are many new games doing this) story is a part of core gameplay.
This is made on purpose, to make the game just linear enough to discourage replays and second runs.

That statement alone discredits pretty much everything else you say. Sorry. If you really understood what type of game Wasteland 2 (and most of the other "old-school" rpg's that are popping up lately) tried to be, you'd realize just how wrong you are.

Hate it, love it, but at least take it for what it's supposed to be.

 

[BigBoss]

If I just entered my information in for them to ship me my reward (box set) yesterday, it's not to late right?

They said my information was locked in or some shit, but didn't say much else.

EDIT:

Spoiler

Nevermind.

Fuckin' A. Wasteland 2 here I come. YOU BETTER NOT SUCK (Greg Giraldo Quote).

 

[Bonsai72]

...
This confirmed my suspicions about funds going into story and "lore" which I'm not interested in. (not one bit)
...

So... part of your problem with Wasteland 2 is that it is an CRPG? Interessting.

 

[BigBoss]

I am disappointed they used the Unity engine though. I didn't see that coming, especially for the sequel to such a legendary game. So far no one has made a game with Unity that I've liked, and not because the graphics, but because the engine itself is just so cheap. Hopefully that'll change though.

 

[Tagaziel]

What's cheap about Unity? If it works, it works.

 

[Natzy]

Hello,

Wow I have been really absent from here. I used to follow NMA a lot back in the days but since the server incident it has not been updated like before. My question is when can we see a review of W2 from NMA?
I am really interested to read something about the story of Wasteland 2 after Arizona because all I see here is comparison with FO 1, 2 an nothing about the actual game or the writing, or the quests. More about the engine or why the rangers don't wear badges.
I know that Brother None is in development but I really enjoyed reading about the actual game. Maybe that's a reason we can't have one or you are waiting to play more?
I already finished it and I'm in my 2nd play but I really would like your opinion from you guys in detail.
Thank you!

 

[Btru]

First post here and all I can say is I need 60 bucks.

Edit: Just bought on GoG and I am downloading. Can't believe I missed this release but my computer has been down for 3 weeks. Gotta love warranties

 

[SuAside]

First post here and all I can say is I need 60 bucks.

Edit: Just bought on GoG and I am downloading. Can't believe I missed this release but my computer has been down for 3 weeks. Gotta love warranties

Not really a bad thing. Means you'll get to play with at least Patch 1 and maybe even Patch 2 by the time you get to Hollywood.

 

[Arr0nax]

some games take time though before they really show their "best" side. Its like with the two girlfriends, the one is really good looking but not very nice, while the other one is the woman that you marry because she has personality.

Thanks guys. I don't often have time to come back to this form, but every time I do I am blessed with such pearls and I am glad you are still going strong

On the other hand, in this thread you managed to start a fanwar against a guy who didn't like the game, outnumber and corner him, then start an criminal investigation and call him a liar for having a steam account that says whatever it wants to say.

Anyway, as having personal experience of losing two consecutive weeks of my life, twice, for two different stupid ass games (Fallout 3 and Gothic 3 not to cite them, I should notice right now that I have a curse with the number 3), because I sticked to them way too long after I quickly understood how bad they were, I can guarantee you that I am not repeating that mistake again. Not ever.
The weeks of my life are precious now, thank you !
These were clearly traumatic events to me. The kind of events that make you realize important lessons about life and how you should act in the future. Like : do not lose your time sticking to stupid ass games.
So if I ever get to play Wasteland 2 for 20 minutes and thinks it sucks, I will stop playing right away and quickly arrange to tell you that it sucks whether or not you agree with my critique methodology. Feel free to lose all the time you want on your side but don't try to convince us it's the righteous way please !


Post-scriptum : If the game-tastes-correctness-inspecting committee wants to check my credentials to verify whether I should be allowed to say something on this sensitive topic, my favourite games are Fallout 1, Fallout 2, Vampire Bloodlines, Planescape Torment, Thief II / Dark Project, Jagged Alliance 2.

 

[Crni Vuk]

comparing the experience of F3 which was a bugged mess with shit story and Gothic 3 which was a bugged mess and unfinished game with Wasteland 2 isnt really fair though. Just saying. If someone doesnt like the game, so be it, again, no one here will burn you just for that opinion, as long as you are civil and actually explaining your opinion. But if you give people bullshit, then dont be butthurt if you get bullshit back. For example, several people have expressed their opinion that Wasteland 2 is rather bland and uninspiring with its style and the visuals you see in the game, and looking at the screenshots, I agree, I definetly expected more form the people behind it. But some of the points people mentioned here about the game why they think its bad ... seem a bit strange.

 

[1fps-warlock]

For example, several people have expressed their opinion that Wasteland 2 is rather bland and uninspiring with its style and the visuals you see in the game, and looking at the screenshots, I agree, I definetly expected more form the people behind it. But some of the points people mentioned here about the game why they think its bad ... seem a bit strange.

Style is actually good, for the most part.
I never tried to judge the story or level design, because I simply lack insight in that regard.
Things that bother me are very technical and they can't be seen on screenshots.

1. The grid.

See xcom grid limitations which is a very similar problem. There's a lack of 45 degree cover.
Possible reason for this could be the controller, but I'm not sure, cause I never had one.

2. The camera.

If the player is allowed to set camera position and direction, why does the game re-set these things all the time?
I don't see the point in this, other than annoying the player by enforcing your design decisions upon him.
Personally, I see this as a bug, even though it's actually common practice in many games. (See console ports)

3. Combat.

Due to above problems, combat suffers. Prone doesn't exist. Terrain doesn't provide sufficient bonus or penalty.
Sniper rifle has a range of a snowball. Camouflage, sneak, ambush, etc. all suffer due to limitations of the engine.
If combat lacks depth in a game that is full of combat, then the entire game lacks depth.
Soldat already explained that earlier and I agree with him.

 

[woo1108]

If combat lacks depth in a game that is full of combat, then the entire game lacks depth.
Soldat already explained that earlier and I agree with him.

Then Fallouts also have problem of lacking of depth.
what a great logic it is!
how about Torement?
or Ultima?
or Wasteland 1?
wow... just..wow...

Gothic 3 which was a bugged mess and unfinished game

But game itself is actually great.
non-linear game play, fun combat but poor sound effect, great graphic, good field level design, etc.

 

[TorontoReign]

I have found myself not really missing the aimed shots. There are a few times I wished I could cripple someones legs, but overall it hasn't been missed. Since the game borrows more from Xcom it really isn't needed. This is a total flip flop from what I said before I played the game, so it is a bit telling. I have however missed stealth. A lot.

 

[Crni Vuk]

If combat lacks depth in a game that is full of combat, then the entire game lacks depth.
Soldat already explained that earlier and I agree with him.

Then Fallouts also have problem of lacking of depth.
what a great logic it is!
how about Torement?
or Ultima?
or Wasteland 1?
wow... just..wow...

I think it is fair to say that many of the games you mention here took quite some criticism for their combat. Not that this would be some kind of excuse in my opinion. There is no reason why a game, where fighting is a part of it, should come with mediocre combat. Simply none. I mean like doing it on purpose. If you dont have enough time and resources or expertise to make it awesome, then it is a different story. But why should anyone be satisfied with mediocre or even bad combat only because the story in the game is awesome? Even in Torment which is really a great game, combat is still important and I feel that it really lacks something here. It just never felt right for me, like as it was unfinished. Games are not interactive movies, gameplay is at least as important like the story you experience.

I really hope that fighting and combat mechanics will not be simply some mediocre experience in Torment Numnera, fighting should still feel great, even in a game where dialogues and good writing are the main focus.

But game itself is actually great.
non-linear game play, fun combat but poor sound effect, great graphic, good field level design, etc.

Which is worth shit if the game doesnt run well because of bugs or if the game play is giving you the rage, it is like to own the best car money can buy, but it is delivered without the steering wheel. Gothic 3 had a lot of design issues when they released the game, because one-shoting boars are so fun ... no, seriously I have no doubts that the game had potential, but Gothic 3 was a mess, there is no way anyone could argue about that. And without the awesome community behind that eventually fixed all the bugs, the game would be still a mess.