Wasteland 2 released!

[Wretched Flamingo]

I enjoy this game quite a bit. I tried to get into the original years before the announcement of 2, however I have such a backlog of games to experience it wasn't my cup of tea. I do like this game, I find it fun, silly and entertaining. References to the Three Amigos, and Blazing Saddles are awesome. The more I play the game the more I realize I should have put more points in intelligence with my character who is primarily a Shotgun wielding, pick-locker (both kinds, dial and key) explosives extraordinaire! Goddamn there's a lot of lock picking and trapped packages throughout Arizona! So far so good, I have a chick I created from Russia who is damn near equal to Deth (Although I didn't even know I could recruit her until long after I finished the AG...grr) I have a pistol wielding, kiss/smart ass diplomat as our leader and finally my sniper/medic. Good times for all. Considering how much I've accomplished with this game and very little knowledge of what makes a good team, I think I've done very good. So to break it down;
Highs+
Storyline is decent and keeps me coming back for more
Graphics are on par with my expectations despite the large hard drive requirements
Pathfinding is topnotch
Items & Descriptions are humorous
The game keeps me interested enough to continue playing even after 40+ hours of trial and error (by the way, my initial team of rangers are the same I'm playing with).
Music is very accommodating.
References from movies, music, games are a great nod to great entertainment
Lows-
Inventory system is buggy (especially at Ranger HQ)
Consistent dialog topics that reword what you already know, and few that inform of anything you didn't
System seems to hang the further you progress through the game. (My initial 30+ hours only resulted in 1 crash, after hour 40, the combat lagged and load times were bathroom break worthy)

Overall I find this game a success and hope that my nitpicking doesn't sway anyone to buy or hold out on buying this great game, but to give my fair assessment.

 

[Soldatmesteren]

And I am confused that, now that this is Wasteland 2, it is not allowed to critique.If you do, you have to make a short but complete and detailed review that is summed up in a few words somehow.
But when saying nice things about the game, you don't have to account for anything, because it is the correct world view to like Wasteland 2.
If no one is honest and just saying it is great, the developer will just keep making the same bad game over and over again.

And that is some kind of surprise? What do you honestly expect, that the whole forum comes runing in telling you how "wrong" you are by saying that you like the game or that it is good? Maybe its the wrong forum for you then ...

But again, no one here will be attacked for his opinion. But you have to give people something to work with in the first place, dont make it sound like its just pure hate, try to get some experience with the game and tell us what you dont like.

*Edit
See, you said what you dont like about the game and people discuss it , this community can be sometimes hostile, but if you stick around for some time people will be a lot more friendly and you would be surprised how diverse the opinions here can be. Hell, there can be no doubt about the fact that a lot of the forum users love fallout, but you will find all sorts of opinions about, best example, New Reno many like the quests and town, but feel that it doesnt fit Fallout, and thus criticize it for it.

Just try not to say only "I hate all of it", because that makes you look simply like a troll.

The simple fact is people don't like drive by shitposting. At first Soldats comment appeared to fit that criteria until he expanded on the issue. I do think many people expect Wasteland 2 to be just like Fallout or at least compare them to each other....understandably so I guess. I also don't think those minor issues Soldat has are worth dropping the game over. Seems like the very definition of nitpicking. One can go over Fallout with a fine tooth comb and nitpick the shit out of it too. Personally I haven't been able to play the game yet, but from the hundreds of comments I've read so far, lets plays, dev blogs, and general good taste in games, I can tell the game is solid... Stopping the game before California to me is just doing yourself a disservice really. Hell be my guest haha. Granted I haven't played the game, I know it has issues, I've spoiled myself already just by researching the game to death while I wait to play it.

I feel like some of these people may not have played the original, or even the original Fallout games in some cases. They may have insanely high expectations of a crowdfunded game. I anticipate Wasteland 2 to improve much with future updates and mods to the point to where Fallout 2 is now. Go back and play Fallout 2 without Killaps mod. Very different experience. Give Wasteland 2 ten or more years of updates and lets talk about which games are better. Fallout 1 and 2 were bug ridden as hell at launch. I encountered so many bugs I could barely play it, but the game shone through, much like I imagine Wasteland 2 does, despite it's weird little quirks and flaws.

I could expand on a lot of the issues the game has according to knowledgeable sources around the web, but it doesn't matter much because I haven't played it. I will say a little bit of imagination goes a long way in these games. Some of the problems Soldat listed can be solved with some of that. Like in the original Wasteland when you had to read the manual to figure shit out and fill in the blanks to make up for the shit graphics. Many of Wasteland 2's problems can be fixed with a little patience, time, and immaggginnnaaatttiooonnnn....to quote South Park. But hey opinions.....

I am not a very perceptive or analytical person, so if I find faults with the game, I don't think that would be nitpicking. Eg. I don't like the graphics of the game. The technical side of the graphics are just bad or low quality. Aesthetically the graphics does not do anything for me personally.
Graphics are one of the cornerstones in a video game, and if that is nitpicking, then the game is immune to critique.
I don't compare, and want the game to be a Fallout copy. But I use Fallout as a measuring tool, because Fallout have pretty much all the elements that Wasteland 2 have. Such as top down isometric view, post apocalyptic setting, dialog trees and other rpg elements, turn based combat. Fallout did the majority of those things very well.

Fallout have technically low quality graphics, but the graphics are converted into 2d and can endure the low quality a lot more. Aesthetically Fallout does a lot for me, immerse me and let my imagination run freely.
If I have to IMAGINE that I am wearing a ranger star, or IMAGINE that I am wearing a vault uniform, what's the point of having any graphics, they should just do it in the style of Wasteland 1 and keep graphics to a minimum.

Things that effect my gameplay experience directly, that is not nitpicking.


I can give an example of something that would be nitpicking for others, but not for me: In Wasteland 2 I have an M2 machine gun. The item art supeciously look like an M2 browning .50 cal heavy machine gun. In wasteland 2 this machine gun fires .223 cal(5.56mm) ammunition. I would agree that would be a nitpick, but it is something i notice right away and take away from the quality of the game.

If I did happen to nitpick a lot, what is the problem with that? There are large issues and then there is a lot of small issues that compound in on the game and make it almost collapse for me.

To avoid the long-ass boring review, we have cooked my critique down to bullet points, and further distilled it down to single bullet points. So the critique so far can come off as nitpicking.
Nitpicking is fine, the game should not become worse as I start to think about it.
If you can comb through Fallout and find faults, I would not mind that at all, that would be an interesting analysis in another thread. But the cornerstones that make up Fallout are very well done, so nitpicking would most likely not change my Fallout experiences.
I find the cornerstones holding up Wasteland 2 to be faulty and further nitpicking just add to the problems compounding in on the game.

 

[Soldatmesteren]

Is because of the badge that you are recognized, is not a small thing, you probably can see them in a few meters away, probably shining.

Your squad are considered rangers for the rest of Arizona, you carry the shiny badge and everything, but for the Rangers itself, your squad is nothing more than rookies that still need to pass their initiation test, while you have the basic things ( badge,etc) you still didn't show your worthiness to enter the Citadel and be full pledged Rangers. For what I understand, your squad was designed to do a simply mission but Ace got murdered and there is a price for his murderer for that. ( You see that in the intro of the game) Now, if the circumstances were normal, other veterans squads would take the job but the circumstances aren't normal, all the veterans are on mission by the time of the game, Vargas tells you that. The only squad free is yours, so that's why you take the job, to prove your worthiness and get revenge for Ace.

I'm not there yet, but I keep hearing that, when you get to LA nobody knows who you are, because they haven't lived with the Ranger at their doorstep like the rest of the Arizona.

Now, discussing the combat system, it's not that great, it has many flaws. It gets repetitive, you do the same choices again and again with the only changing factor being where you stand or use crouch. I don't see why anyone would use headshoot, the hit-miss is not worth it ( maybe is my skill), non-using guns enemies can and probably will, get OP since they don't have the jam factor, can attack twice a turn, bigger health and will hit most of the time ( the cockroaches were hitting more than my rangers in Highpool). There a probably more but I haven't seen they yet.

I ignore the keywords dialogue since I read the phrase that they produce first. It is a bad system? Probably yes, since the keywords produce phrases, why not use the phrases instead of the keywords? My explanation, is that this is a throwback at the original Wasteland, IIRC you had to type the keywords to talk with NPCs.

The graphics and aesthetics do lack detail. IIRC they used Unity assets for base and just tweaked them but seriously, the graphics should be the last things look at. I got immersive in the game by the story, roleplaying and Mark Morgan great soundtrack.

The motivation for the rangers to continue or why they joined the faction is entirely up to the player, that's why the BIOS tab is there, to provide a story for your squad. As for motivation, the ''killer robots'' could be one or just to enter the Citadel could be another one. For players of the first game, probably one of them is to see how the region aged. As for me, my motivation is to know where and why the killer robots come from and of course, reach LA.

For now, this is my views for Wasteland 2 and some arguments for the discussion, they will probably change when I go further in the game

It would be nice if the ranger badge was shown on my character model or it was an inventory item I could not remove.
When I finished the AG center mission, I started to get radio chatter from another ranger squad, that they would do some patroling. So no free ranger squads? Or did the developers just forget what Vargas said in the beginning and just wanted some cool radio chatter? ahh whatever don't think about it.

 

[Mr Fish]

When I finished the AG center mission, I started to get radio chatter from another ranger squad, that they would do some patroling. So no free ranger squads? Or did the developers just forget what Vargas said in the beginning and just wanted some cool radio chatter? ahh whatever don't think about it.

IIRC people complained during the beta that it didn't make much sense for the protagonist squad to be out there doing everything while the rest of the Rangers just sat on their asses. Perhaps they added in the radio chatter and stuff to show that there are other Ranger squads but they're busy with other things which is why your squad is assigned an easy task which ends up leading you down further down the rabbit hole than you might have liked. I don't remember everything Vargas said in the beginning, but if the squad activity was added in later it might be that they forgot about Vargas' original dialogue contradicting the later change.

 

[Soldatmesteren]

When I finished the AG center mission, I started to get radio chatter from another ranger squad, that they would do some patroling. So no free ranger squads? Or did the developers just forget what Vargas said in the beginning and just wanted some cool radio chatter? ahh whatever don't think about it.

IIRC people complained during the beta that it didn't make much sense for the protagonist squad to be out there doing everything while the rest of the Rangers just sat on their asses. Perhaps they added in the radio chatter and stuff to show that there are other Ranger squads but they're busy with other things which is why your squad is assigned an easy task which ends up leading you down further down the rabbit hole than you might have liked. I don't remember everything Vargas said in the beginning, but if the squad activity was added in later it might be that they forgot about Vargas' original dialogue contradicting the later change.

It is a nice touch, the radio chatter, and I hope they will include and expand that idea in future games.

The choice of helping Ag center or Highpool, is a cool idea, I liked that. You want to save this all important thing or you want to save the other all important thing?
But all the rangers are too busy to save an all important thing?
It sounds like a Star Trek episode with "We are the only ship in range"

Radio chatter good, execution less good.

 

[Mr Fish]

But all the rangers are too busy to save an all important thing?
It sounds like a Star Trek episode with "We are the only ship in range"

Radio chatter good, execution less good.

I don't think it is that they are too busy but rather that they aren't available. (Maybe one team is on radio silence, maybe one team is outside of radio range or are at a poor radio connection (kinda like Damonta). The other Rangers might not be reachable or might be holed up against something that they literally can't just up and walk away from.) But yeah the Rangers at the citadel ought to be able to scrape together an emergency team. They have several members just walking about. I suggested something about it way earlier on the InXile forums that the Rangers should send a team to the other location but they came too late and didn't have time to save the area but the entire team didn't wipe either. Your team is already on the move and might be close by. The emergency team would have to be put together, equipped, briefed and then sent out, that time could cost the other location.

With other areas it makes sense to me that other teams don't respond as they really are busy with other things, but Highpool and Ag Center are almost vital to the Rangers so that they can't send out a team of the Rangers just walking about at the Citadel is shoddily executed, I agree.

Besides, the distance from the radio tower or citadel to Ag Center or Highpool are about the same, I think the Radio Tower is further away actually. Maybe Vargas is just a dick and doesn't want to risk the lives of people he care about more than he does the new recruits.

 

[2bak]

@Soldatmesteren I fully understand and agree with your point of it not being "OK" to not like Wasteland 2, and I do not envy you for now having to defend that statement against these guys. In fact they are all just proving your point even though they don't recognize it

 

[Soldatmesteren]

I found a picture that shows very well what I do not like about the level design.
Wasteland 2 is a corridor rpg.

 

[woo1108]

That's not level design at all.
and there aren't much things to do in Arroyo.
just compare Glow and Ag center.

and how about NCR?
go straight and you will find president's place.
then NCR should be called linear city?
or NCR should be called as a corridor for president?

and about your nonsense of enemy's assault, how about power armor?
people know exactly who you are even you wear power armor.
it's just game. game's limit.

and critique should be written after finish the game.
what do you know about WL2?
you might know Fo1,2 because you already finshed them.
but you don't know much about WL2.
you even don't know Darwin, Damonta or LA.
that's the reason why your critic is meaningless.

A game, especially RPG can't be judged before finish it.

 

[Crni Vuk]

@Soldatmesteren I fully understand and agree with your point of it not being "OK" to not like Wasteland 2, and I do not envy you for now having to defend that statement against these guys. In fact they are all just proving your point even though they don't recognize it

what the hell. How many people are posting here in this topic anyway? And how many people are actually registered on NMA. If I would not know it better then you just called the forumers of NMA "wasteland-fan-boys"? Heh ... if you really think about us to be like that, then you have not see true fan-boyism so far ... not to mention if we only talk about the visuals (I have not played W2 so far), then all I can say is that the game is not impressive in my opinion, I believe with the funding they received they could have done a lot more - see Obisians Project or the Game InSomnia. But that is my opinion and I understand that I am very pecuilar when it comes to games and not everyone might share my view. See! OMG Wasteland 2 Criticism ... wait ... I am still alive.

Seriously though, considering the fact what kind of game wasteland is, it gets rather little attention by NMA. But NMA has become rather quiet over the last few years anyway. I guess this might change at some point with Fallout 4, when ever that might be ... oh boy, can't wait for all those people registering here trying to tell us what a true Fallout game is.

Heh, you two kinda feel to me like some guys that just found out about the whole iinternet and PC gaming yesterday and by coincidence the first game website you stumbled over was NMA.

 

[Soldatmesteren]

That's not level design at all.
and there aren't much things to do in Arroyo.
just compare Glow and Ag center.

and how about NCR?
go straight and you will find president's place.
then NCR should be called linear city?
or NCR should be called as a corridor for president?

and about your nonsense of enemy's assault, how about power armor?
people know exactly who you are even you wear power armor.
it's just game. game's limit.
and critique should be written after finish the game.
what do you know about WL2?
you might know Fo1,2 because you already finshed them.
but you don't know much about WL2.
you even don't know Darwin, Damonta or LA.
that's the reason why your critic is meaningless.

A game, especially RPG can't be judged before finish it.

That is level design. What?
The amount of things "to do" in arroyo what does that have to do with the level design in Wasteland 2?
But let's have a look. You can go through a temple, fighting giant ants and scorpions. You get to try out lockpicking and planted explosives. You get to try out healing powder and it's side effects.
You get to realise you character is no fit for melee combat and learn to run away from a battle you can lose.
You get to try out some dialog and fist fight a guy or you could be surreptitiously with your persuasion ability and talk you way out of a fight.
You get a cool vault uniform.

You get to speak with one of those cool special people that have an animated close up of their head. You learn about your main quest and how you should go about it.
You get to fix a well with your repair skill.
You get to help the shaman rid his garden of nasty plantlife.
You get to pick flowers and roots so the shaman can make healing powder for you.
You get to fight geckos
You get to help find someones dog.
You get to speak with someone that can train your in hand to hand combat.
You get to speak to someone that can make your spear better. Here you also get to speak to your aunt, who does not like you where you again get to try your speech skills or try to spend some money.
You get to know where you are from, and why your home needs your help
You get to take in the atmosphere and learn a bit about the world you live in.

An eventfull day in Arroyo.

The glow is an underground facility(A planned and thought out structure), not the surface world. And still the glow feels a lot more open and less tedious to move about in.


NCR is a city in Fallout 2. you get to walk around outside the city, open space. Inside the walled city, the area is of course designed. That is called city planning. But it is still A LOT more open and free to move about. You can even go inside the buildings.
In Fallout 1 the soon to be NCR (Shady sands) is even more spacious and without feeling empty.




Who has read the "script" and knows who i am with power armor on?
Why should a game only be allowed negative critique by someone who have played all the way through the game? And why "especially rpg" games
When did I say I have not finished the game?
Does the game switch graphics engine and cgi artist later?
Does a new score composer get hired further into the game?
Does a new level designer get hired further into the game?

Also we are not discussing critique of Fallout.

 

[Soldatmesteren]

@Soldatmesteren I fully understand and agree with your point of it not being "OK" to not like Wasteland 2, and I do not envy you for now having to defend that statement against these guys. In fact they are all just proving your point even though they don't recognize it

what the hell. How many people are posting here in this topic anyway? And how many people are actually registered on NMA. If I would not know it better then you just called the forumers of NMA "wasteland-fan-boys"? Heh ... if you really think about us to be like that, then you have not see true fan-boyism so far ... not to mention if we only talk about the visuals (I have not played W2 so far), then all I can say is that the game is not impressive in my opinion, I believe with the funding they received they could have done a lot more - see Obisians Project or the Game InSomnia. But that is my opinion and I understand that I am very pecuilar when it comes to games and not everyone might share my view. See! OMG Wasteland 2 Criticism ... wait ... I am still alive.

Seriously though, considering the fact what kind of game wasteland is, it gets rather little attention by NMA. But NMA has become rather quiet over the last few years anyway. I guess this might change at some point with Fallout 4, when ever that might be ... oh boy, can't wait for all those people registering here trying to tell us what a true Fallout game is.

Heh, you two kinda feel to me like some guys that just found out about the whole iinternet and PC gaming yesterday and by coincidence the first game website you stumbled over was NMA.

I must say, it is the first time I have ever tried to post something like this. I have been following NMA ever since Fallout 3 first popped up on the radar.
You can call this therapy.
I could not wait to get my hands on wasteland 2. I did not watch any trailers(just saw that first picture they posted), or played any beta.
And when I realised I was disappointed with the game... you know the rest.

 

[woo1108]

You get to speak with one of those cool special people that have an animated close up of their head. You learn about your main quest and how you should go about it.
You get to fix a well with your repair skill.
You get to help the shaman rid his garden of nasty plantlife.
You get to pick flowers and roots so the shaman can make healing powder for you.
You get to fight geckos
You get to help find someones dog.
You get to speak with someone that can train your in hand to hand combat.
You get to speak to someone that can make your spear better. Here you also get to speak to your aunt, who does not like you where you again get to try your speech skills or try to spend some money.
You get to know where you are from, and why your home needs your help
You get to take in the atmosphere and learn a bit about the world you live in.

and none of them are not really important and challenging.
and find dog is really hard? since geckoes are not attack, you can simply go to dog and take it to owner.
is there anything to do with level design?
you just click to dog and that's all.

Fallou1 has nothing challenging dungeon at all.
Fo2 have some(like Sierra army depot) but it's level designs are not that complex but skill methods are well placed. but since you only can controll one character, there aren't many method to do that.


How about WL2?
at Ag center, you have to resque people, find cure and stop mutating.
and there are tons of way to do that.
I can use some mechine to make way so I can evade enemy, or simply break walls and face enemy.
there are tons of way to solve single problem
since it doesn't have sneaking, level design replaced sneaking.
I can find peaceful way by finding method and using skill.
you don't have to face RMS at all, well, there are two point to fight them but that's not big deal at all.
I can evade many combat situations thanks to good level design.

I really want to ask how much you played WL2.
because if you played WL2, you can know the picture you upload here is meaningless.

all you mentions about are very first part of game.
I suspect you did not even beat Ag center or Highpool.

 

[Soldatmesteren]

You get to speak with one of those cool special people that have an animated close up of their head. You learn about your main quest and how you should go about it.
You get to fix a well with your repair skill.
You get to help the shaman rid his garden of nasty plantlife.
You get to pick flowers and roots so the shaman can make healing powder for you.
You get to fight geckos
You get to help find someones dog.
You get to speak with someone that can train your in hand to hand combat.
You get to speak to someone that can make your spear better. Here you also get to speak to your aunt, who does not like you where you again get to try your speech skills or try to spend some money.
You get to know where you are from, and why your home needs your help
You get to take in the atmosphere and learn a bit about the world you live in.

and none of them are not really important and challenging.
and find dog is really hard? since geckoes are not attack, you can simply go to dog and take it to owner.
is there anything to do with level design?
you just click to dog and that's all.

Fallou1 has nothing challenging dungeon at all.
Fo2 have some(like Sierra army depot) but it's level designs are not that complex but skill methods are well placed. but since you only can controll one character, there aren't many method to do that.


How about WL2?
at Ag center, you have to resque people, find cure and stop mutating.
and there are tons of way to do that.
I can use some mechine to make way so I can evade enemy, or simply break walls and face enemy.
there are tons of way to solve single problem
since it doesn't have sneaking, level design replaced sneaking.
I can find peaceful way by finding method and using skill.
you don't have to face RMS at all, well, there are two point to fight them but that's not big deal at all.
I can evade many combat situations thanks to good level design.

I really want to ask how much you played WL2.
because if you played WL2, you can know the picture you upload here is meaningless.

What does the challenge level in Arroyo, Sierra army depot and Ag center have to do with level design?
When did I say Fallout have complex level design?

Yes the idea of the Ag center quest is cool. And the idea of Ag center in it self is cool. And the idea of Wasteland2 in general is cool.

Yes I have played Wasteland 2. Wait what?

 

[2bak]

@Soldatmesteren I fully understand and agree with your point of it not being "OK" to not like Wasteland 2, and I do not envy you for now having to defend that statement against these guys. In fact they are all just proving your point even though they don't recognize it

what the hell. How many people are posting here in this topic anyway? And how many people are actually registered on NMA. If I would not know it better then you just called the forumers of NMA "wasteland-fan-boys"? Heh ... if you really think about us to be like that, then you have not see true fan-boyism so far ... not to mention if we only talk about the visuals (I have not played W2 so far), then all I can say is that the game is not impressive in my opinion, I believe with the funding they received they could have done a lot more - see Obisians Project or the Game InSomnia. But that is my opinion and I understand that I am very pecuilar when it comes to games and not everyone might share my view. See! OMG Wasteland 2 Criticism ... wait ... I am still alive.

Seriously though, considering the fact what kind of game wasteland is, it gets rather little attention by NMA. But NMA has become rather quiet over the last few years anyway. I guess this might change at some point with Fallout 4, when ever that might be ... oh boy, can't wait for all those people registering here trying to tell us what a true Fallout game is.

Heh, you two kinda feel to me like some guys that just found out about the whole iinternet and PC gaming yesterday and by coincidence the first game website you stumbled over was NMA.

I'm not saying anyone is a fanboy, but the guy had a storm of replies coming his way (page 2-5 lol) and I just wanted to back him up cause I think he made a fair point. And please stop throwing insults around, NMA was in fact the first gaming site I stumbled upon but that was in 2003.

 

[MIB88]

Why should a game only be allowed negative critique by someone who have played all the way through the game? And why "especially rpg" games

I don't care about anybody else's opinion of this or any other game. I don't get involved with such matters because everybody has their own tastes. However, I did find this comment... odd. Yeah, sure, you can judge Pac-Man by playing for a few minutes. Or by playing some random FPS. They truly are the same. But, an RPG? Really? Would you accept a book review from someone who has read only the first chapter of a book? Or someone's critique of a group's latest album because they listened to one of 15 songs? Would you accept a grade from your instructor who only graded you on the first page of your 10-page assignment? Of course, if you are talking only of technical points that you disliked (and that is mostly what you refer to), then you are right: these things most likely don't change. However, an RPG is much more than the sum of its 'technical' parts and a valid, real critique should be done by someone who has played a significant portion of/finished the game.

 

[Soldatmesteren]

Why should a game only be allowed negative critique by someone who have played all the way through the game? And why "especially rpg" games

I don't care about anybody else's opinion of this or any other game. I don't get involved with such matters because everybody has their own tastes. However, I did find this comment... odd. Yeah, sure, you can judge Pac-Man by playing for a few minutes. Or by playing some random FPS. They truly are the same. But, an RPG? Really? Would you accept a book review from someone who has read only the first chapter of a book? Or someone's critique of a group's latest album because they listened to one of 15 songs? Would you accept a grade from your instructor who only graded you on the first page of your 10-page assignment? Of course, if you are talking only of technical points that you disliked (and that is mostly what you refer to), then you are right: these things most likely don't change. However, an RPG is much more than the sum of its 'technical' parts and a valid, real critique should be done by someone who has played a significant portion of/finished the game.

I am neither discussing a book, a music album, or someones paper.
I have been discussing Atmosphere, tone, dialog and story, graphics (technically and aesthetically), level design,World - immersion and such things, in a video game.
When the foundation of a game does not hold up, the whole thing collapses.

But let's take your other non game examples.
If I read a book, and the first 50-200 pages whatever. The writing style is really engaging me, the author is really painting a picture of the world I am reading about. I am really engage by the characters, their dialog and how their actions are described. The author clearly have a style a tone. Of course the rest of the book will be in the same tone and style, you won't know how it ends, but you know the quality of it.

I listen to an album from a band, I listen to the first three tracks. The tracks have song lyrics that addresses sort of the same subject matter and tone. The musicians play their instruments in a certain way that I really like, they have a distinct style on this album so far. You won't know all the song lyrics, but you know what they will be about, how the musicians will perform.

I read a classmate's paper. I read half of it. It becomes clear how much work he have put into the first half of it. I know the quality of the first half will reflect on the rest of the paper. If the first half of the paper is garbage, I might as well tell him he have to redo it.

When I first saw the Trailer for Star Wars Episode 1: The phantom menace, it looked wrong. The whole film was garbage
When I first saw a picture of Diablo 3, I said to myself; this looks wrong. The whole game was garbage
When I saw the first picture from Wasteland 2, it did not look like how I wanted it to look, The is dissapointing.
When I saw trailers and pictures from Rome 2: Total war, it looked amazing, the game was garbage. (ohhhh)

Very often i find that, a picture, a trailer or playing part of a game, can tell you a lot.
Look at the foundation, and you will more times than not, know if it holds up.

That is just the craaazy world I live in : )

 

[oxidize]

So if Wasteland 2 is RPG, is Age of Empires also RPG? I mean in W2 you take a role of a squad, a group of people. So what if you had control over 1000 people, would it still be an RPG? Where's the limit at which it stops being an RPG? At what number?

 

[woo1108]

So if Wasteland 2 is RPG, is Age of Empires also RPG? I mean in W2 you take a role of a squad, a group of people. So what if you had control over 1000 people, would it still be an RPG? Where's the limit at which it stops being an RPG? At what number?

Did you ever played Wizardry?
CRPG is not much about role playing.
you are just yourself and charaters are just tools for communicatimg with game.


in fact, Fallout was started from Wasteland which is also a squad based RPG.
so, number doesn't matter to RPG I think.

 

[oxidize]

Why should a game only be allowed negative critique by someone who have played all the way through the game? And why "especially rpg" games

I don't care about anybody else's opinion of this or any other game. I don't get involved with such matters because everybody has their own tastes. However, I did find this comment... odd. Yeah, sure, you can judge Pac-Man by playing for a few minutes. Or by playing some random FPS. They truly are the same. But, an RPG? Really? Would you accept a book review from someone who has read only the first chapter of a book? Or someone's critique of a group's latest album because they listened to one of 15 songs? Would you accept a grade from your instructor who only graded you on the first page of your 10-page assignment? Of course, if you are talking only of technical points that you disliked (and that is mostly what you refer to), then you are right: these things most likely don't change. However, an RPG is much more than the sum of its 'technical' parts and a valid, real critique should be done by someone who has played a significant portion of/finished the game.

I am neither discussing a book, a music album, or someones paper.
I have been discussing Atmosphere, tone, dialog and story, graphics (technically and aesthetically), level design,World - immersion and such things, in a video game.
When the foundation of a game does not hold up, the whole thing collapses.

But let's take your other non game examples.
If I read a book, and the first 50-200 pages whatever. The writing style is really engaging me, the author is really painting a picture of the world I am reading about. I am really engage by the characters, their dialog and how their actions are described. The author clearly have a style a tone. Of course the rest of the book will be in the same tone and style, you won't know how it ends, but you know the quality of it.

I listen to an album from a band, I listen to the first three tracks. The tracks have song lyrics that addresses sort of the same subject matter and tone. The musicians play their instruments in a certain way that I really like, they have a distinct style on this album so far. You won't know all the song lyrics, but you know what they will be about, how the musicians will perform.

I read a classmate's paper. I read half of it. It becomes clear how much work he have put into the first half of it. I know the quality of the first half will reflect on the rest of the paper. If the first half of the paper is garbage, I might as well tell him he have to redo it.

When I first saw the Trailer for Star Wars Episode 1: The phantom menace, it looked wrong. The whole film was garbage
When I first saw a picture of Diablo 3, I said to myself; this looks wrong. The whole game was garbage
When I saw the first picture from Wasteland 2, it did not look like how I wanted it to look, The is dissapointing.
When I saw trailers and pictures from Rome 2: Total war, it looked amazing, the game was garbage. (ohhhh)

Very often i find that, a picture, a trailer or playing part of a game, can tell you a lot.
Look at the foundation, and you will more times than not, know if it holds up.

That is just the craaazy world I live in : )

Ever heard Don't judge a book by its cover?