Depend on your wallet and steam library.
Wasteland 2 released!
- Thread starter WorstUsernameEver
- Start date
Soldatmesteren
First time out of the vault
And I am confused that, now that this is Wasteland 2, it is not allowed to critique.If you do, you have to make a short but complete and detailed review that is summed up in a few words somehow.
But when saying nice things about the game, you don't have to account for anything, because it is the correct world view to like Wasteland 2.
If no one is honest and just saying it is great, the developer will just keep making the same bad game over and over again.
What you have done is not critique at all.
it's just gibberish.
you didn't say anything about what is wrong with WL2.
it's like "hey, I hate you, I won't tell you why but you have to do something to fix it"
Soldatmesteren
First time out of the vault
I have not said I have given it any valid critique, you misunderstood my point.
And I think my point have been proven quite well here on the forum.
Nice trolling, guy who registered yesterday just to tell people how much he hates WL2.
naossano
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
I would say for now that the game seems very promising, keeping its inheritance from Wasteland 1, with some influence from Fo1-Fo2-FoT, but i will wait to reach the end before any reviewing.
Generic Dude 2.0
First time out of the vault
Even the fact that it's terribly slow on my PC (which runs games like FNV and Skyrim perfectly fine, btw) is not what makes it unplayable for me. I absolutely hate rotating camera view. It's so confusing! I would prefer full 2d isometric view with much much better set design (Fallout Tactics is perfect example. It still is one of the most beautiful games in my opinion). Also the dialogs! Ugh. I think Oblivion had better dialogs. I literally just killed an NPC because of her atrocious dialog. "Please, rangers, you have to help me. I need my dowry, I can't find me a husband without it, please, I need a husband, you have to help me, rangers!" WTF? You call it deep, meaningful "Fallout style" dialog? Yeah, sure. I like music though, and combat is kinda fun.
Soldatmesteren
First time out of the vault
My point exactly.
I put out a little feeler to see what kind of forum this is. If you have an opinion or analyse that goes against the stream, you are just a troll.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________
. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ,.-‘”. . . . . . . . . .``~.,
. . . . . . . .. . . . . .,.-”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .“-.,
. . . . .. . . . . . ..,/. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ”:,
. . . . . . . .. .,?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\,
. . . . . . . . . /. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,}
. . . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`^`.}
. . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:”. . . ./
. . . . . . .?. . . __. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :`. . . ./
. . . . . . . /__.(. . .“~-,_. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`. . . .. ./
. . . . . . /(_. . ”~,_. . . ..“~,_. . . . . . . . . .,:`. . . . _/
. . . .. .{.._$;_. . .”=,_. . . .“-,_. . . ,.-~-,}, .~”; /. .. .}
. . .. . .((. . .*~_. . . .”=-._. . .“;,,./`. . /” . . . ./. .. ../
. . . .. . .\`~,. . ..“~.,. . . . . . . . . ..`. . .}. . . . . . ../
. . . . . .(. ..`=-,,. . . .`. . . . . . . . . . . ..(. . . ;_,,-”
. . . . . ../.`~,. . ..`-.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..\. . /\
. . . . . . \`~.*-,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..|,./.....\,__
,,_. . . . . }.>-._\. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|. . . . . . ..`=~-,
. .. `=~-,_\_. . . `\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\
. . . . . . . . . .`=~-,,.\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . `:,, . . . . . . . . . . . . . `\. . . . . . ..__
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .`=-,. . . . . . . . . .,%`>--==``
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _\. . . . . ._,-%. . . ..`\
You didn't say any reason why you hate WL2 but you just say hate everything from WL2. that didn't explain anything.
we required your reason for hatred.
and you say nothing so we consider you a troll.
it's all your fault.
Your opinion is all wrong.
I have thousand of reasons about why your opinion is wrong.
but it's too long so you won't read at all so I skip explain reason for you.
let's guess what was wrong with you.
Last edited:
Soldatmesteren
First time out of the vault
This is like Kanye West from South Park, not wanting to understand.
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
It's not that difficult.
Wasteland 2's dialogue can sometimes come across as just an excess of exposition, especially when asking about the same thing in Ranger Citadel. A bunch of Rangers pretty much just copy paste the same bullet points from one another instead of giving their own view on the topic you asked about.
Wasteland 2 (as far as I know) does not have a pause button, so setting up my characters for a strategic combat situation can sometimes fall apart because the enemies initiate combat too early because they saw one Ranger.
Animals such as badgers are IMO unbalanced as they do not have to worry about jamming, have tons of health, deals a shitload of damage and will attack twice. The jamming in general can be excessive, especially when you're fighting enemies who are really dangerous and who's attacks 'cannot' jam, only miss.
There's some critique which is short and simple and would you look at that? I criticized Wasteland 2! The universe must surely be imploding on itself momentarily. You don't have to do a "review" at all, just do bullet points of your criticism. I've seen others do it and they haven't been banned or silenced in any way. You have no excuse dude, either you criticize Wasteland 2 or you don't, but don't spout a bunch of shit as if you're not "allowed" to criticize it. Do a long ass-review or do bullet points like I did. Either way, criticize it or stop whining about how you're 'not' allowed to criticize it.
Last edited:
Soldatmesteren
First time out of the vault
From Wasteland 2, i expected neat visuals that are atmospheric and immerse me into the game
I expected great music that seems tailor made for the game, that would further amplify the atmosphere and the tone. Memorable music that would be burned into my memory.
I expected a fun character creator like I have seen in Fallout, Fallout 2, Fallout Tactics, Arcanum or even something as basic as the old or new Xcom games were character creation is at a minimum. Character creation where I get attached to my character, because he/she feels unique.
I expected from a 4-6 party members game, some great tactical combat, minimum that of Fallout Tactics. Or at least something that feels justified that a party is forced upon you.
I expected NPCs that had not read the script in advance
I expected a dialog tree that was not just an exercise in exhausting every dialog option
I exoected to once in a while find a special FULLY voiced character
I expected a fun inventory ("Inventory is life"). With awesome item graphics, items descriptions. Items that further immerse me into this world and make it all more believable.
I expected a starting quest that got me hooked on the world, and excited to explore it. A quest with elements I cared about, with characters I cared about.
I expected a nice simple isometric view, with no camera rotation, where I could get a great view of great mission/map/level.
I expected a game that would run 60fps no problem.
I expected a game with a heavy atmosphere, a consistent tone that compliments the atmosphere.
I expected to play through the whole even if I had some issues with the game.
Last edited:
Soldatmesteren
First time out of the vault
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
Okay, that is what you expected, now tell us what 'you' feel like you got.
Cause while I can understand the criticism behind some of these ambiguous examples, like the "isometric view with no camera rotation" there are others that are too ambiguous for me to understand what the criticism is actually of, such as the starting quest example. (I still wouldn't call this critique though, you need to be more specific as ambiguity can cause miscommunication.)
This is still not criticism.
You can't just say that the main menu is "wrong" without explaining 'why' it's wrong. Imagine a bride going to see an example of the cake they're going to have for the wedding and she tells the baker that the cake is wrong. How is the baker supposed to know 'what' is wrong?
For example, I also have a problem with the character creation. I don't like that it is divided up into 2 tabs. I'd much rather have just one single screen ala Fallout but have the skill list a list you can scroll up and down. I don't see the point to having every skill take up a part of the screen when you could just file them into one scrollable list. Same goes for the character screen in the game itself where it's worse. I always had a problem with the ingame character screen and voiced my concern multiple times but they still went with it which saddens me. When we have 7 characters it can be extremely frustrating to have to go through 3 tabs for attributes, skills and bio for each character when it could easily fit in one single screen that covers the entire screen instead of being a window within a window. Summary: The more tabs I have to click through to understand each character the more tedious it will become.
Seriously dude, either criticize the game properly or just stop. If the next post from you isn't proper criticism or about something other than complaining about criticism then you can't be anything but a troll. You've exhausted all your chances to be taken seriously. Proper criticism, let's hear it.
Last edited:
Soldatmesteren
First time out of the vault
Fallout(1997) Is such a good and easy example of what a good starting quest is.
(and this is without mentioning the great job of the intro video, the menu, the character creation, and the intro video after the character creation)
In Fallout you have to help your vault getting a water chip so the vault can produce clean water.
And YOU in all this, is just someone living in the vault.
You can easily project yourself onto this character because
you can relate to what a home is and wanting to be safe
You can relate to wanting to help your fellow man/woman
you can relate to water as a necessary element
you can relate to being a somebody, leaving the nest, going into a big scary world.
Wasteland 2.
After the character creation, you are shown a live action intro film. I feel this is a disconnect from the game. It's fine I guess.
The intro video tells us this is a harsh place, and that this Ace guy have died because of it. We see Ace's casket being buried
So we get into the game.
There is some mystery about this Ace guy
And we are supposed to find something called Radio repeaters?
I don't know this Ace guy, other than he was a ranger
I don't know what these repeaters are and why they are so important.
But I have to get the repeaters if I want to get into Ranger HQ.
I don't really know what ranger HQ is or why I want to get in there. I guess I want to be a ranger for some reason.
I then go speak with Angela Deth (who I am meeting for the first time) she is crying about Ace(who i don't know who is)
Angela can then TELL me some things about Ace
She can also tell me that radio repeaters is just some boring science thingy
and off we are, because of Ace, Repeaters and rangers. Things I don't really know anything about or can relate to or care about.
The ranger general does not seem to care about this either, so he sends aspirering rangers to do the job, instead of ranger veterans.
He wont even spare some ammonition or first aid kits.
Maybe Ace, radio repeaters, rangers and Angela Deth was a big part of Wasteland 1, and you had to play it.
Last edited:
So, you hate WL2 because you are obsessed with Fallout 1 in short?
and for level design, compare to WL1 and 2, Fallout 1's level design isn't good at all.
why did you expect that?
because Fallout 1's combat is totally broken.
at least they give you weapon and ammo didn't they?
I didn't see any decent level design in Fallout 1 though...
of course it is, because it's Wasteland, not a Fallout.
Personally, I like both Fallout 1 and WL2.
but I think both Fo1 and WL2 are not great as WL1.
I really like level design of Quartz, Vegas, needles, sleeper base, Cochise, and mind maze. they are challenging, full of mysteries, requires intelligent and fun.
even the graphic is old, it's writing is still great.
I really like it's skill practicing system.
I really like it's simple and compact combat.
how about Fallout 1?
it doesn't have any decent level design(Fallout 2 has some good place like Gecko, Sierra army depot, Navarro etc though).
combat sucks
puzzles are not much challeging
how about WL2?
rules became super easy to use(of course, compare to WL1).
combat requires too much thing so make me tired of combat.(it's fun though, maybe I'm not huge fan of combat based games..)
I can't increase skill by practicing it
puzzles and level designs are not as good as WL1.
and both don't have climbing which make gameplay more fun and interesting.
still, that can't be the reason to hate both WL2 or Fallout 1.
becuase they have thier own good points.
and for level design, compare to WL1 and 2, Fallout 1's level design isn't good at all.
They didn't plan to use 2d isometic view.
why did you expect that?
how did you manage to play Fallout 1?
because Fallout 1's combat is totally broken.
maybe it's not your taste but that doesn't mean they are wrong.
nothing wrong with creating character.
how about starting with energy weapon at Fallout 1? or 2?
at least they give you weapon and ammo didn't they?
and finding power armor at very first part of game is not wrong at all?
While WL2 don't have sneaking skill, I can sneak into places thanks to good level design.
I didn't see any decent level design in Fallout 1 though...
because you are blaming WL2 just because it's nothing like Fallout 1.
of course it is, because it's Wasteland, not a Fallout.
Personally, I like both Fallout 1 and WL2.
but I think both Fo1 and WL2 are not great as WL1.
I really like level design of Quartz, Vegas, needles, sleeper base, Cochise, and mind maze. they are challenging, full of mysteries, requires intelligent and fun.
even the graphic is old, it's writing is still great.
I really like it's skill practicing system.
I really like it's simple and compact combat.
how about Fallout 1?
it doesn't have any decent level design(Fallout 2 has some good place like Gecko, Sierra army depot, Navarro etc though).
combat sucks
puzzles are not much challeging
how about WL2?
rules became super easy to use(of course, compare to WL1).
combat requires too much thing so make me tired of combat.(it's fun though, maybe I'm not huge fan of combat based games..)
I can't increase skill by practicing it
puzzles and level designs are not as good as WL1.
and both don't have climbing which make gameplay more fun and interesting.
still, that can't be the reason to hate both WL2 or Fallout 1.
becuase they have thier own good points.
Last edited:
Soldatmesteren
First time out of the vault
I could not expect a 2d game. (as you point out)
But I did expect a 3d game with an isometric view, with a fixed camera view, and designing the levels in accordance with the fixed view. Or the very least, all the levels are fleshed out from the starting camera view.
Eg. I have played a lot of Dawn of War 2. The multiplayer maps are 3d and you can rotate. But you can play all the maps with the starting camera view, and the maps seems to be designed with that in mind.
Or like Fallout Tactics that is like a borderline 3d game, the levels are 3d, but a fixed view.
Last edited:
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
That wasn't so hard now was it?
Anyway, I can understand what your point about it is. If you don't have a clear idea of why your characters would want to be in the rangers then it doesn't hold much attachment to you and you feel a loss of interest in pursuing what Vargas asks of you. In Fallout it was clear what the protagonist might want and feel and why (s)he would want to hunt for the waterchip. But Wasteland follows a different design philosophy regarding protagonists (I actually prefer the Fallout one) where they don't want to force you into a position you don't want to be in. Basically, it is up to the player to decide why his/her characters want to join up with the Rangers.
Why they're there? One of my characters was the wife of a farmer who's marriage had gone sour when they found out she was barren and they slowly drifted apart. One day raiders came to the farm and in the heated argument with her husband he said that he was not going to allow them to take the only thing he had left in the world and she just knew that he no longer considered her worth a damn. He didn't care about her. So when the raiders gunned him down after he took out one with his shotgun they raided the place and left her standing over his body. With nowhere to go and with nothing to own she tagged along with caravans and traveled aimlessly until finally she ended up at Ranger Citadel. While she no longer cared for her husband she had seen first hand what could come of raiders so she enlisted in the hopes of finding meaning with her life now that childbearing was no longer an option.
That's why she joined. The bio on the 2nd character creation screen page is there IMO for writing up a brief backstory to act as an incentive for their actions in the game. Each of my characters joined for different reasons.
Ace isn't really important to you. He can be, but he doesn't have to be. Maybe your group starts to really believe in what they're doing after a few missions and 'then' want to investigate what happened to Ace. Maybe they just wanted to do it for Angela. Maybe they wanted to do it just out of curiosity for the Synths. Maybe they wanted to do it solely to rise in ranks and gain favor with Vargas.
So the starting mission then. It depends completely on how you perceive your group of Rangers. My view on my current squad is that they all joined up because of various reasons, one for finding meaning, one for being a target of a caravan company, one for wanting to explore the world of tech and one because he simply likes to kill people but he wants to be in the right side when he does kill them. They just finished training and attended Ace's funeral only because Vargas had mentioned to them that he wanted to talk to them later. After the funeral they are given their first proper mission. Why would they want to go through with it? Well June does it because of a lack of better things to do. Yaheen does it because she hopes to find something high tech (and boy does she). My shotgun character (I'm bad at remembering his name...) does it out of persuasion from the rest of the group and Metal Man does it because he hopes to find something to beat to death. (Sadly, he used Hard Ass on the raiders and the Rangers got a free pass so he sullenly leaves the raiders alone at the behest of the rest of the group).
Too much wall of text...
Erm, my point is that Fallout has a narrative structure that influences your character directly as to why you want to go through with things because you have a singular character to play around with. It's narrative is therefor a bit limiting as it directly tells you that you have to care about the vault because you came from it which is fine for what it is aiming to do.
In Wasteland you have 4 created characters and 3 recruitable characters which means that too much narrative restriction can severely cripple the roleplaying elements of your characters. It's open so that you can have more freedom in how you want each of your characters to behave. It's more ambiguous with it's reasons as to why you want to even care about the Rangers because otherwise it might ruin your roleplaying ideas and your backstories for your characters.
TOO LONG : DIDN'T READ
In a way:
Fallout asks of you to play 'their' character.
Wasteland asks of you to play 'your' character.
If that makes any sense...
It's a game where you won't be able to relate to anything if you don't create a reason for why you would want to relate to it. Maybe it's easier for me who have played Wasteland 1 as I understand where they're coming from and someone completely new to Wasteland might not know (before they create their party) what the Rangers truly are and why they are an incentive for any character to join.
So a few reasons to relate to the Rangers:
* They are the law, in a sense, of the wastes.
* They are protecting communities from raiders, cults, wildlife and other problems.
* They care about the distribution of food and water to not just a vault, but the entire known region of Arizona.
* They are in a way a military family, and a lot of people have lost all the family they have.
* They offer protection, education, knowledge, training, firearms, ammunition, food, water, medicine and healing to those who join.
I'm not going to say that you are wrong in how you feel about the Rangers or it's narrative structure. I just hope that I might have shed a different light on it.
---------------------------------------------------------
As a quick question on the side to others, if one of my rangers die I will recruit one of the ones sitting near the gate at Ranger Citadel right? What happens 'if' 4 rangers die (over the course of 10 hours and I recruit 1 of those three sitting there each time I return), will I be out of options then?
Last edited: