Nodder said:
Without any fuel.
What are the issues with New Reno?
- Thread starter Chancellor Kremlin
- Start date
Without any fuel.
Well I think the economics of NR are much more interesting than the time-limits of the city.
If we understand criminal activity as a leech on the state, we must ask whether or not this leech can live on its own. Thus can the economy of a place like New Reno be self-sustaining. Its been mentioned that there's the availability of jobs and entertainment but what is the medium of exchange ? Who is paying, right ?
So lets assume someone is exchanging food for jet, that's a viable transaction with money as the medium of exchange. But we assume there are no farms in the city itself, therefore it must sustain itself as being a center of trade between the cities around it. Its not in the best position but its certainly in a good one.
If we understand criminal activity as a leech on the state, we must ask whether or not this leech can live on its own. Thus can the economy of a place like New Reno be self-sustaining. Its been mentioned that there's the availability of jobs and entertainment but what is the medium of exchange ? Who is paying, right ?
So lets assume someone is exchanging food for jet, that's a viable transaction with money as the medium of exchange. But we assume there are no farms in the city itself, therefore it must sustain itself as being a center of trade between the cities around it. Its not in the best position but its certainly in a good one.
Slaughter Manslaught
Vault Senior Citizen
Interesting question. Though the quests and stories of Fallout 2, you can see that all the families were eventually preparing themselves for a final showdown that would end with one of the families controlling Reno:
Salvatore: He probrably didn't kill the Mordinos immediatly because he was building his strength, his laser arsenal and his influence. But he had a plan. The death of Richard Wright was the first step. The Enclave shipment was the second one. It would eventually lead to the Wrights and Mordinos fighting each other, until one of them is finished. Then it would only be a question of killing the Bishop Family and finishing the weakened family that won the struggle.
Bishop: Bishop was playing a dangerous power-scheme with NCR and Vault City. His plan was to help NCR annex Vault City, then, with NCR's help, annex New Reno and probrably end as the Power Behind The Throne in NCR.
Mordino: Mordino was building his own empire. He had Jet, Redding was on his grap, Myron worked for him and would make any drug as soon as he asked him to. With Redding controlled by him, Mordino would probrably get wealthy and strong enough to wipe out the other families.
Wright: Well, he didn't had much of a plan. But still, he was probrably planning to take Sierra Army Depot, arm his family to the teeth and go into a all-out war with the other families using his vastly superior firepower.
Karimi said:
Not all criminal activities are "leechy", some consist in the supply of goods and services for which there is demand, but which are outlawed. New Reno exports drugs, booze, and porn, and provides "entertainment" to travellers. The latter always seemed a bit oversized to me, since there don't seem to be so many caravans, and there is almost no tourism in the FO world. Anyway, in general it makes sense to me to have a place providing entertainment at a caravan crossroad.
That the place does not seem to have an own food supply also struck me as odd, but that to me always was a general bug of the FO world that it was assumed that communities like Modoc would be exporting food - how should that work? Brahmin can only carry so much, and over large distance they would eat up more food than they can carry.
....
You didn't notice the fuckload of caravan wagons lying around?
You didn't notice the fuckload of caravan wagons lying around?
Chancellor Kremlin
Mildly Dipped
torben said:
When there is little other forms of power available, its the only choice. Welcome back to the medieval period, have a nice day
Chancellor Kremlin said:torben said:Mikael Grizzly said:When there is little other forms of power available, its the only choice. Welcome back to the medieval period, have a nice day
Well, there still is another choice: Build the settlement elsewhere.
I would have to check it, but I don't believe the medieval period had big settlements that did not either have an own food supply or access to a port, for this very reason.
Chancellor Kremlin
Mildly Dipped
torben said:Well, there still is another choice: Build the settlement elsewhere.
I would have to check it, but I don't believe the medieval period had big settlements that did not either have an own food supply or access to a port, for this very reason.
Why do people keep misquoting me? Is this some kind of new trend or something?
I suppose for food yes, you can't really trade food if you don't have a surplus, but for other forms of trade transportation would be incredibly rudimentary.
torben said:
The brahmin are incredibly efficent beasts of burden, it seems, requiring little water or food.
torben said:Well, there still is another choice: Build the settlement elsewhere.
Why would you do that when the town is already set up for you in Reno? I don't think they could just build Casino's everywhere... If you're talking about farming, then disregard above comment, but there's land that are more fertile than others, and if trading for surplus was something you were trying to establish, you couldn't really just set up everywhere.
Like plasma cannons? Like handheld vulcan machine guns?
While I understand that it's somewhat out of context, driving up in your fusion powered car and showing disbelief at some neon signs is a little silly.
Or is the complaint that this this the only "powered" area with not power plant accessible in the game?
Mikael Grizzly said:
It seems so, but it is not really plausible that a cow needs less food and water because it has heads. On the other hand, why should we question the plausibility of two-headed cows living from air and love in a world that has plasma guns, deathclaws, and ghouls?
@Sicblades
I was talking about farming, of course, and that in a world without powered or water transport any major settlement would most likely have to have an own food supply.
Chancellor Kremlin
Mildly Dipped
Ravager69 said:
Not just referring to neon-signs here, but there would have been a lot of other unused and pristine items stashed in basements, vaults, depots and so on that were not destroyed.
Car engines, generators, fuel here and there, mechanical parts, lightbulbs, spare wires and all that. Putting all that together should not be too hard. It still intrigues me there are not more cars working even 200 years after the war.
Chancellor Kremlin said:
Actually, the game hints that there are more cars around than just yours: There is a "Chop Shop" in New Reno, and a parking lot in NCR, both of which only makes sense if there are some other cars around. In the FO bible I once read that the devs assumed more cars to be around, but did not want the player to find them, because the ability to buy or steal a car would eliminate the need to complete the quests to get the car.
I think it makes perfect sense. Perhaps enough of you haven't been beaten down by life enough to realise, that when you've got nothing else, drugs, sex and beer are all that matters.
When i was unemployed and kicked out of my home, i hitchhiked to Amsterdam, bummed food off people along the way, then earned my way working for unsavoury characters so i could have a good time for a couple of months.
No home? Check. No food? Check.
Desire for booze, sex and drugs? Check.
New Reno: Perfectly plausible. The electricity and neon is a stretch, but hey, give it a break.
When i was unemployed and kicked out of my home, i hitchhiked to Amsterdam, bummed food off people along the way, then earned my way working for unsavoury characters so i could have a good time for a couple of months.
No home? Check. No food? Check.
Desire for booze, sex and drugs? Check.
New Reno: Perfectly plausible. The electricity and neon is a stretch, but hey, give it a break.
There is absolutely no problem with New Reno, heck it was stated somewhere that the it could have been a primary target because the army depo was there but what the hell I don't think the Chinese wouldn't have bombed every goddam military facility when they had bigger fish to fry, like NORAD, Washington, Are 51 Florida Keys, etc., and we can assume that the prewar US could at leas keep some of it's secrets like Skynet, oh what the hell even Skynet said that sentient computers could have been the cause of the war, so we can at least assume that it took precautions not to get bombed.
So if the bombs didn't destroy New Reno, most of the city could have survived, with it's population(the intro is a little bit exagerated....not everybody has to come from the vaults) together with it's criminal world. And remember 250 years passed since the war, and nobody has said that in the beginning there weren't more crime families, but they just got elliminated in the process the ones from the game being the last ones. There is no problem with the gambling, slotmachines or the rest of the techier things, those things never get old, and somehow always manage to survive cause there is always a need for them like for the rest from which New Reno makes a living (sex, drugs, and....). And what is the problem with the neon lights? maybe they were brought from NCR, cause they had the technology to make forcefields, so what is so special about the neons. At the ending of Fallout 1 it was clearly stated that the BOS slowly reintroduced technology in that part of the world, and we can see from history that once technology gets rolling it has a way of spreading like wildfire ( you can find some high tech equipment in the remotest parts of the world). If people have problem with the neon lights why the hell don't they have a problem with every goddam lightbulb that appears in the game (it's not like they are so easy to manufacture) so in my opinion just give it a break.
And then with the arming of the families, it very much looks like a recent development. The salvatores just got the laser guns, they didn't have the numbers, and they barley could use them(never got it why you needed a special energy weapon skill, it's not like shooting a laser pistol would be harder then shooting a regular pistol, it may be even easier, because there is no recoil, but its the game makers choice so I don't have a problem with it) and in the game they only had laser pistols which weren't such a big deal, (personally I would prefer a 223 over a laser pistol any day). Jet was also a recent development. And none of the families could actually get the upper hand without outside help, as if one of them would try something funny the other three would have allied themselves, you know....the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
About the Wrights, well there is no problem with them either, I heard that somebody said that anybody could make alcohol....well that is not entirely true. There is the problem of quality. It is not the same if one drinks moonshine that is made in the back of the yard from which, if you don't have the know how, you could easily go blind and die, or a 20 years old whisky. So who knows maybe all the good booze was coming from the Wrights in New Reno.....which if we think about it could give them quite the influence they being in the business much longer than the Mordinos (they didn't have a cassino....maybe they preferred to keep a lower profile mislead the other families,or maybe Ms Wright didn't let them and a Cassino is much harder to hide than a distillery).
So in my humble opinion there is not a single problem with New Reno.....
So if the bombs didn't destroy New Reno, most of the city could have survived, with it's population(the intro is a little bit exagerated....not everybody has to come from the vaults) together with it's criminal world. And remember 250 years passed since the war, and nobody has said that in the beginning there weren't more crime families, but they just got elliminated in the process the ones from the game being the last ones. There is no problem with the gambling, slotmachines or the rest of the techier things, those things never get old, and somehow always manage to survive cause there is always a need for them like for the rest from which New Reno makes a living (sex, drugs, and....). And what is the problem with the neon lights? maybe they were brought from NCR, cause they had the technology to make forcefields, so what is so special about the neons. At the ending of Fallout 1 it was clearly stated that the BOS slowly reintroduced technology in that part of the world, and we can see from history that once technology gets rolling it has a way of spreading like wildfire ( you can find some high tech equipment in the remotest parts of the world). If people have problem with the neon lights why the hell don't they have a problem with every goddam lightbulb that appears in the game (it's not like they are so easy to manufacture) so in my opinion just give it a break.
And then with the arming of the families, it very much looks like a recent development. The salvatores just got the laser guns, they didn't have the numbers, and they barley could use them(never got it why you needed a special energy weapon skill, it's not like shooting a laser pistol would be harder then shooting a regular pistol, it may be even easier, because there is no recoil, but its the game makers choice so I don't have a problem with it) and in the game they only had laser pistols which weren't such a big deal, (personally I would prefer a 223 over a laser pistol any day). Jet was also a recent development. And none of the families could actually get the upper hand without outside help, as if one of them would try something funny the other three would have allied themselves, you know....the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
About the Wrights, well there is no problem with them either, I heard that somebody said that anybody could make alcohol....well that is not entirely true. There is the problem of quality. It is not the same if one drinks moonshine that is made in the back of the yard from which, if you don't have the know how, you could easily go blind and die, or a 20 years old whisky. So who knows maybe all the good booze was coming from the Wrights in New Reno.....which if we think about it could give them quite the influence they being in the business much longer than the Mordinos (they didn't have a cassino....maybe they preferred to keep a lower profile mislead the other families,or maybe Ms Wright didn't let them and a Cassino is much harder to hide than a distillery).
So in my humble opinion there is not a single problem with New Reno.....