What did Bethesda actually do better than Black Isle?

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by Nodder, Nov 2, 2008.

  1. Nodder

    Nodder It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Oct 28, 2008
    No sarcasm zone.

    * Folded First Aid and Doctor into one skill.
  2. FeelTheRads

    FeelTheRads Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 15, 2004
    And how is that better? Explain please.

    I would be curious if someone could come up with something important that was actually done better, not combining (read: dumbing down) skills and making it first-person or whatever else people nowadays think is cool.
  3. RBurns722

    RBurns722 First time out of the vault

    Oct 31, 2008
    i kinda like the condition of weapons and repair skill now....one up IMO
  4. Nodder

    Nodder It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Oct 28, 2008
    Less clunky and annoying that way.
  5. Bloody William

    Bloody William First time out of the vault

    Oct 31, 2008
    Developed a combat system that maintained the strategy and satisfaction of aimed shots and action points but without the painfully slow turn-based process.

    Made science slightly (emphasis on slightly) more useful beyond a very small handful of interactive spots.

    Further showed in-game the style and science of pre-war America. Instead of some notes, the nuclear car, and the Vaults, you have a lot more visual and gameplay elements that show that the world of Fallout wasn't just us-after-the-bomb, but a truly different but compellingly similar world with a pre-rock culture and a scientific landscape that's more Tesla than Edison. Of course these aspects were in FO and FO2, but FO3 really shows you, beyond the Vaults and text.

    Nuclear weapons. They're not realistic, but they're sure fun.
  6. Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude

    Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jul 9, 2004
    If by less clunky and annoying, you mean dumbed down (for the console crowd) and nonsensical; I agree wholeheartedly.
  7. Nodder

    Nodder It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Oct 28, 2008
    If by dumbed down you mean less of a hassle and by for the console crowd you mean updated for an era where games don't force you to steal from NPCs to manage their inventories then yes you are correct sir.

    And what's wrong with one skill merging Throwing and Traps, anyways.
  8. FeelTheRads

    FeelTheRads Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 15, 2004
    Yeah, less of a hassle... I mean, damn it... many a times I was trying to figure it out: do I need to use first-aid or doctor? Man, I wish they had the technology back then to combine two skills into one. :freak:

    And that's related to merging first-aid and doctor into one, how? Ah, right... going the only known way known to you people: if you don't have any arguments you just start pointing out other problems like they are relevant in any way. Especially since this problem was fixed in Fallout 2, so...

    WAT? They did that too? Or is just your imagination going ahead of Bethesda's?


    For that matter what's wrong with merging all skills into one called: AWESOMENESS!
  9. Nodder

    Nodder It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Oct 28, 2008
    Why would someone predisposed to be better at healing/curing large wounds be unable to heal/cure better at small wounds? I guess if you're a doctor, you can mend bones but you can't put on a simple band-aid for a scrape. Oh, Interplay, what a brave new world you have created! Truly you put Twilight 2000 to shame! Deadlands had better watch out!
  10. FeelTheRads

    FeelTheRads Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 15, 2004
    Thank you, you have just proven you have no idea what you're talking about and thus you are irrelevant to this discussion.

    Besides the fact that the doctor skill also recovers hit points, I'll ask you back: is it not possible for someone to know just first aid? Oh, I think it is, they're called nurses usually.
    In fact, I have a feeling that nurses might be better at first aid than doctors themselves who practically never do it. Not saying they are unable to, which doesn't happen in Fallout either like you just again babbled incoherently.
  11. Nodder

    Nodder It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Oct 28, 2008
    Wouldn't knowledge of first aid also cover the healing of major bones and injuries, or do you really think that all that first aid consists of is bandaging scrapes and bruises? If they wanted to do a system of minor vs. major healing they should have just done something like White Wolf's dot ratings where traits have degrees of proficiency. The First Aid vs. Doctor difference is not one of qualitative difference, but quantitative difference, and hence redundant.

    But oh noes the nuts have taken over the nuthouse!111
  12. FeelTheRads

    FeelTheRads Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 15, 2004
    Mending them, but not healing. That's why they're called nurses not doctors.

    I'm not saying that the system in Fallout is perfect, but combining them in one skill because "they sound the same" is simply dumbing down. And yes, before someone starts screaming, I'm aware that Van Buren did something similar and I still don't agree.
  13. JOG

    JOG First time out of the vault

    Dec 17, 2007
    Actually, having been an ambulance man for some time, I can affirm you, that most practicing doctors are completely overchallenged when taken out of their natural habitat, surgeons too, lacking all the assistents and medical devices of their OR.

    The Mac-Giverism, at the cost of sterility if neccessary and the stress of a situation where there is no back-up and you may be as endangered as the patien't, isn't something you can learn in a lecture hall, and most doctors simply lack the experience in this area.

    On the other hand, the medic doesn't heal, his task is to rescue and stabilize the patient so that he can be transported to a doctor.

    ...Not that a first aid expert (i.e. field medic) was really neccessary or realistic in Fallout 1+2, that would've required at least shock and bleeding wounds, and the lack of healing po... uhm... Stimpacks.
  14. Kashrlyyk

    Kashrlyyk It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Oct 18, 2004
    Traps are laid on the ground, sometimes with carefully laid out triggers.

    Throwing is throwing, not laying on the ground.

    The only way to combine those is by making a trap trigger a catapult that launches grenades on the target.
  15. Roflcore

    Roflcore Mildly Dipped

    Nov 2, 2008
    Better? They made more money. But thats about it I guess
  16. Dravean

    Dravean Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Mar 6, 2005
    I think merging Doctor and First Aid was one of their better ideas. If they really felt the system needed to be simplified, that seems like the logical choice...

    Unlike merging Throwing and Traps. I don't see the logic in that. I understand that neither skill was all that great in the first two games, but instead of merging them into one skill, they should have used the opportunity to expand the usefulness of either skill.

    It wouldn't have been that hard. It would have been as simple as adding a greater variety of throwing weapons and traps and making them a more prevalent part of the game world.
  17. Black

    Black Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 21, 2007
    Maybe I missed something... where's the strategy in VATS?
  18. ShatteredJon

    ShatteredJon It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Oct 29, 2008
    I can tell you one thing Beth did worse than BIS, and that was kill the unique feeling behind making a character. By the end of the game, I was able to do most everything. There was no feeling of wanting to play a different character cause I didn't have the skills to do something. If you think lockpicking or science is a reason to play through the game again, then fine. But those are the only two instances where I felt my character lacked the skills to succeed.

    When I first played Fallout 2, I was amazed at all the things I missed, on every playthrough. That game encouraged uniqueness, cause you couldn't get every dialogue option, every quest, every choice. It took me over five playthroughs to see most of what the game has to offer. I just beat FO:3 and started a new character. Other than being good instead of evil, I can not find things I can't do that my first character couldn't. Simplifying things does not even come close to making it "better." IMO, it kills the reason to make a unique individual. TAG! skills are useless. I tagged science, lockpick, and unarmed on my second playthrough, but put lots of points into speech with a few levels. There is nothing this character can't do that my last guy (small arms, sneak, and speech) couldn't do as well. This is extremely dissapointing.
  19. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt I should set a custom tit

    Oct 28, 2008
    I can understand merging Med and Doctor, even accept sneak+steal, but throwing+traps makes so little sense. What if the trap is *gasp* not an explosive?

    I do have to agree, good job on weapon and armor repair. Hacking and lockpicking are kind of fun too, I just wish they made the minigames harder instead of setting ridiculously high stat requirements.
  20. Ausir

    Ausir Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Apr 20, 2003
    They didn't do it better than Black Isle, they did it the same as Black Isle (in Van Buren).