What is it with Bethesda and nonsensical settlements?

Suddenly exploration is actually fun!
No kidding, I remember back when people on the Bethesda forums would make fun of others just because fast traveling is much more preferable to walking simulator with boring encounters and enemies to fight when your not walking. I just don't get what's so fun about that sort of exploration, I just find it boring and lacking. It's cool if others like it but it's just not my thing.
 
I wonder how the people who praise Bethesda for their "environmental storytelling" and attention to small details justify how the most prosperous trading settlement in the Commonwealth is surrounded in all directions by enemy mobs.
 
I wonder how the people who praise Bethesda for their "environmental storytelling" and attention to small details justify how the most prosperous trading settlement in the Commonwealth is surrounded in all directions by enemy mobs.
They're too distracted by companion nagging and sorting through barrels of junk to even notice it.
 
They're too distracted by companion nagging and sorting through barrels of junk to even notice it.
You forgot about them also being too busy fucking companions, robots, and taking on the role of General for Preston to save another settlement then add on to them by putting piles of junk together.
 
Now come to think of it, what if Fallout is in fact a campaign setting of Dwarf Fortress. That would explain the nonsensical placement of settlements. Maybe some people are not aware, but in Dwarf Fortress you could build a wall that are indestructible even if it was map out of cat soap, and doors can only be destroy by critter with the tag building destroyer. You might expect deathclaw or SM to be able to do it, but from how the game work, it is obvious that they can't do it, that would anyway be solved easily by replacing doors by drawbridge.

As for food supply, all they would need is a single 5*5 plump helmet farm plot, and they will have a virtually unlimited quantity of fine plump helmet wine, and plump helmet roast for ever. If a vile force of darkness constituted of SM was to come to the gate of Diamond City, all they have to do is to shut the gate, and feast on plump helmet, until the SM get tired of this bullshit, and go back from the shithole were they belong.
 
Now come to think of it, what if Fallout is in fact a campaign setting of Dwarf Fortress. That would explain the nonsensical placement of settlements. Maybe some people are not aware, but in Dwarf Fortress you could build a wall that are indestructible even if it was map out of cat soap, and doors can only be destroy by critter with the tag building destroyer. You might expect deathclaw or SM to be able to do it, but from how the game work, it is obvious that they can't do it, that would anyway be solved easily by replacing doors by drawbridge.

As for food supply, all they would need is a single 5*5 plump helmet farm plot, and they will have a virtually unlimited quantity of fine plump helmet wine, and plump helmet roast for ever. If a vile force of darkness constituted of SM was to come to the gate of Diamond City, all they have to do is to shut the gate, and feast on plump helmet, until the SM get tired of this bullshit, and go back from the shithole were they belong.
Ah, but it is flawed! For Dwarf Fortress is FUN, Fallout 4 isn't.
 
Diamond City makes a lot of sense from a logical standpoint.
The stadium is a naturally well-defended position, with plenty of space and storage room and fertile soil for the growing of crops; settlers would move in not longer after the Great War and it would naturally develop into a larger town or what can be tentatively be called a city.

If the Super Mutants had been there from day one, it would have been impossible for them to establish said settlement, but they weren't. They are now though, making it very hard to travel outside of Diamond City and essentially keeping potential migrants inside of it.

I've no excuse for Goodneighbour. I don't exactly know what its excuse is, but I'm confident it shouldn't be possible to establish such a settlement.

Sanctuary is one that gets me particularly riled up. Not only is it an indefensible piece of shit, but it is out in the middle of goddamn nowhere with little access to outside support; this, combined with the nearby Raider presence, should make it one of the worst possible places to establish a community, regardless of available water and soil.

But fuck it, some old broad hopped up on so many drugs she couldn't even list them all said she 'saw a vision' of it, so it must be incredible. Let us, five persecuted survivors of which one is too elderly to do anything and only one has proper military training, go and reclaim this land on our own, despite the fact we lost 400% on our way here.
 
I wonder how Sanctuary wasn't inhabited by raiders by the time the SS exited the vault. They were inhabiting the area around the Museum of Freedom.
 
I wonder how Sanctuary wasn't inhabited by raiders by the time the SS exited the vault. They were inhabiting the area around the Museum of Freedom.
Someone had to set up all of those workbenches. Then again the houses themselves look like they haven't been entered for over 200 years considering all of the junk inside.
 
Considering those houses needed patching up(okay a lot but it's atleast the start of a town as opposed to one wooden rotten hut) a group of raiders could've used that instead. What am I talking about? We have the Children of the Atom living in a radiated crater without any bodily harm without protection living near a glowing Deathclaw.
 
A crazy idea, I know, but maybe there could be a type of map system? You know with a grid, and where your character moved over the map, while days where represented by seconds, there could be random encounters even! And some of your skills ... let us call it ... yes! Outdoorsman! Could influence what encounters and enemies you face.
I think this would be a great adition to Fallout as role playing game!
Like the Modders from Fallout the Story project for FNV did:
travelingsys.jpg


New Bethesda Motto: "Modders always do it better"
 
Someone had to set up all of those workbenches. Then again the houses themselves look like they haven't been entered for over 200 years considering all of the junk inside.

I think the implication for some of the workbenches (especially the cooking pot) was that the guy you find dead out in front of Sanctuary was the one inhabitant until he met his unfortunate end sticking a tire iron into a mongrel.

My question is, who the fuck set up the Power Armour station? The SS can build them, sure, but they need 4 in science and 2 in local leader, so I doubt it was the aforementioned squatter; it definitely wasn't raiders, because they're clearly not smart enough to make use of one judging by their own power armours and it can't have been the BoS, or else they would have some knowledge of Vault 111, which they don't.

Which seems to imply it's been there before the war. Why? I understand that, in this game, PA is basically a vehicle, but I wouldn't replace my car with it, which the guy must have done because with a frame in there there wouldn't be any space for an actual automobile.
 
I think the implication for some of the workbenches (especially the cooking pot) was that the guy you find dead out in front of Sanctuary was the one inhabitant until he met his unfortunate end sticking a tire iron into a mongrel.

I didn't even notice until you mentioned it, but what the hell happened there? Did he get bit right on a major artery right as he stabbed the dog, and died from blood loss on the ground right there?

My question is, who the fuck set up the Power Armour station? The SS can build them, sure, but they need 4 in science and 2 in local leader, so I doubt it was the aforementioned squatter; it definitely wasn't raiders, because they're clearly not smart enough to make use of one judging by their own power armours and it can't have been the BoS, or else they would have some knowledge of Vault 111, which they don't.

Which seems to imply it's been there before the war. Why? I understand that, in this game, PA is basically a vehicle, but I wouldn't replace my car with it, which the guy must have done because with a frame in there there wouldn't be any space for an actual automobile.

It wasn't there in the pre-war sequence, so it needed to have been inside the house and someone likely dragged it out. Either it belonged to one of the veterans living within the suburb and it was in a room somewhere, or it was used by the soldiers guarding Vault 111 in the intro (they had power armour then) and passer-by raiders decided to use it and moved it to where the Sole Survivor finds it.

There's theories that the suburb was for the families of military veterans and was prioritised above other suburban locations, which was why the military responded ridiculously swiftly to the nuclear threat at the intro with two helicopters (assuming Bethesda was too lazy to model an older aircraft and broke lore to bring Vertibirds to the pre-war days) and an APC already surrounding the suburb, with military escorts littering the area.

It's implied that it is also why there weren't any visible riots or instability in the area, yet the rest of the Commonwealth seems to be loaded with holotapes and data entries implying that the rest of the city was drowning in chaos. Minimal rations, military checkpoints, criminals all over the place.

What I don't get is why Bethesda put a lot of work into suggesting that Boston was struck with mayhem prior to the war and yet the intro was all sweet lovey-dovey 50s paradise. I really believe that they actually had a few good writers on the side at one point (not Emil), but then they ran out of time or misplaced priorities and they didn't get very far with it. The writing involving the pre-war subplot was clearly explored and not completely ignored, but it was only half-finished.
 
I didn't even notice until you mentioned it, but what the hell happened there? Did he get bit right on a major artery right as he stabbed the dog, and died from blood loss on the ground right there?

Possibly; mongrels usually hunt in packs, so it's entirely possible that he was killed by the rest of them (though the lack of missing flesh suggests he was either not very tasty, a clothed corpse is difficult to model or I'm just plain wrong). Personally, I think this particular man is one of Bethesda's few instances actually deserving of their fame for visual storytelling.

It wasn't there in the pre-war sequence, so it needed to have been inside the house and someone likely dragged it out. Either it belonged to one of the veterans living within the suburb and it was in a room somewhere, or it was used by the soldiers guarding Vault 111 in the intro (they had power armour then) and passer-by raiders decided to use it and moved it to where the Sole Survivor finds it.

I find it hard to believe that a veteran would be allowed to keep such a valuable piece of technology, considering that the fact that there's more Power Armours than Power Armour stations makes them too valuable to do so. Your suggestion that it might have been used by the soldiers guarding Vault 111 seems reasonable, but as you said, it didn't appear in the intro and Boston was nuked basically seconds after that, so they'd have to have decided to modify or repair their PA by dragging this station from wherever they were hiding it after surviving a blast that either killed or ghoulified everyone else.

On a side note, the fact that these T-60s had already been deployed but are still somehow rarer than the X-01 (despite it being a post-war design and there being two factions that wear the T-60 almost exclusively) is just another example of Bethesda congratulating themselves by making their design the special one.

It's implied that it is also why there weren't any visible riots or instability in the area, yet the rest of the Commonwealth seems to be loaded with holotapes and data entries implying that the rest of the city was drowning in chaos. Minimal rations, military checkpoints, criminals all over the place.

What I don't get is why Bethesda put a lot of work into suggesting that Boston was struck with mayhem prior to the war and yet the intro was all sweet lovey-dovey 50s paradise. I really believe that they actually had a few good writers on the side at one point (not Emil), but then they ran out of time or misplaced priorities and they didn't get very far with it. The writing involving the pre-war subplot was clearly explored and not completely ignored, but it was only half-finished.

Now, this is interesting. I didn't get this impression at all; where did you find the clues that suggested this?

I don't understand why Bethesda tried so hard to convince us that the game gives you the freedom to make your own character. Tired criticisms aside, the story is clearly tailored for us to care about our character from an outside perspective; their idyllic pre-war life is meant to show us how much they've lost and how disorientated they would be by the post-war world; this leads into their obsessive search for the only thing they have left in this world (Shaun) and gives us an opportunity to sympathize once they become utterly broken by the discovery that their son was their enemy all along.

Now, of course, this isn't the most original of stories (and even then it is done rather poorly), but it would have benefited greatly from a character with a defined personality we could grow attached to, which Bethesda seemed to have been planning but only went half-way with it.
 
Now, this is interesting. I didn't get this impression at all; where did you find the clues that suggested this?

I don't understand why Bethesda tried so hard to convince us that the game gives you the freedom to make your own character. Tired criticisms aside, the story is clearly tailored for us to care about our character from an outside perspective; their idyllic pre-war life is meant to show us how much they've lost and how disorientated they would be by the post-war world; this leads into their obsessive search for the only thing they have left in this world (Shaun) and gives us an opportunity to sympathize once they become utterly broken by the discovery that their son was their enemy all along.

Now, of course, this isn't the most original of stories (and even then it is done rather poorly), but it would have benefited greatly from a character with a defined personality we could grow attached to, which Bethesda seemed to have been planning but only went half-way with it.

Well, unfortunately, I did buy into the hype and bought Fallout 4, long before I discovered NMA. Back before I got disappointed by the severe lack of actual, written quests, I did a lot of exploration. I preferred to explore urban decay rather than the outlands of the map in south, and ran across several military checkpoints which had entries regarding issues with foreigners, underground ration storage running low on resources, and of course, police stations littered with reports of criminals all over the place.

Now, the criminals aspect is a bit of a stretch, but Bethesda clearly implies that pre-war Boston was not a paradise. You are even given an option to say to a pre-war ghoul that the world before wasn't all that great as people thought it was. It definitely was intentional, trying to create the feel that the world before the war was not in good shape. Bethesda aren't masters of storytelling, to say the least, but they did have a vague idea of what Fallout pre-war was supposed to be - not wacky techno 50s fun times.

So to me, the entire introduction sequence is not only poorly-paced and loaded with cringeworthy dialogue, but it does not fit in with literally any lore Bethesda tries to present during the main game. I know they were trying to explore themes of loss and detachment, but it feels almost like whoever wrote the intro and whoever wrote the rest of the game never met during the entire development of the game. I believe that the writer for Bethesda that did background writing and adding little bits of information to fill the gaps is the one who should have been the lead writer.

Possibly; mongrels usually hunt in packs, so it's entirely possible that he was killed by the rest of them (though the lack of missing flesh suggests he was either not very tasty, a clothed corpse is difficult to model or I'm just plain wrong). Personally, I think this particular man is one of Bethesda's few instances actually deserving of their fame for visual storytelling.

I find it hard to believe that a veteran would be allowed to keep such a valuable piece of technology, considering that the fact that there's more Power Armours than Power Armour stations makes them too valuable to do so. Your suggestion that it might have been used by the soldiers guarding Vault 111 seems reasonable, but as you said, it didn't appear in the intro and Boston was nuked basically seconds after that, so they'd have to have decided to modify or repair their PA by dragging this station from wherever they were hiding it after surviving a blast that either killed or ghoulified everyone else.

On a side note, the fact that these T-60s had already been deployed but are still somehow rarer than the X-01 (despite it being a post-war design and there being two factions that wear the T-60 almost exclusively) is just another example of Bethesda congratulating themselves by making their design the special one.

Bethesda's visual storytelling tends to be very artistic but they don't make very much sense. The kind of visual storytelling that would be much better suited to an atmospheric horror game, to build the tense atmosphere and provide insight at the same time.

I believe that the power armour frames may have been modified from the rigs used to hold car engines, which is why they can also be found at several Red Rocket stations. This might've been the case - it was built for engine maintenance, disassembled and left in the house. Though in that case, we come back to the elephant in the room of plot holes - Bethesda's insistence that nearly everything from before the war can last 200 years without falling into a state of disrepair.

Yes, the T-60 series are never explained. Their origins, their designation, their abundance in the Brotherhood and rarity outside the Brotherhood, and their similarities to the T-45. My headcanon is that the T-60 was simply a redesignated version of a later T-40 power armour, most likely a T-49. It would better explain why the T-60, despite coming after the T-50 series, bear more of a resemblance to the T-40 series. There's also the case that for every 10 T series of power armour, the US government signs on a new contractor for the next one, and the military contractor that designed the T-40 series was hired again for the T-60 series.

I know it's probably the case that Bethesda didn't give any of the above any thought at all whatsoever, but many of their plot holes were left vague enough to be filled in with the player's own interpretation, a disingenuous method of storytelling that's popular with Bethesda games. My main gripe is with the inconsistencies that couldn't be explained. Vertibird abundance for one thing.
 
Last edited:
Well Diamond City pretty much hides behind walls, so the guns don't really matter.

Maybe Goodneighbor just isn't that big of a threat? Trying really hard to stay positive here guys.
 
Back
Top