Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
Wait, what? Since when?
What is it with Bethesda and nonsensical settlements?
- Thread starter Meurzh
- Start date
Lanfear
Mildly Dipped
And on the center of a hill, forcing attackers to exhaust themselves just trying to cover the ground to the gates. I can't believe I'm talking about how much more sense Skyrim makes than Fallout 4.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Spacemunkey
Vault Senior Citizen
You guys are trying too hard, all you have to do is wait until they lock Piper out again and she'll let you right in.
ZigzagPX4
The Swiftness of the Ranger
Well, it makes sense because making a believable fantasy world isn't hard, now that everything in entertainment has demonstrated it. What Bethesda did was just reskin all of the standard fantasy world that you usually see in RPGs. If Bethesda managed to make Skyrim illogical, I would be impressed at their ability to screw up simple things many people have already done before.
I think he means the Gunners. Military-themed mercenaries, extremely well-equipped, practically equivalent to what a rogue US battalion prior to the war would be like.
Most of the raiders and super mutants would have to attack from the ground. Most building interiors are in ruins to the point of being inaccessible. They would have a lot of cover, but the guards would have the high ground, not to mention the only entrance is a large area with plenty of cover, smaller wooden barriers, and one large steel door they can shut in case of emergencies.
Assuming the green walls are thick enough to prevent breaching (which they aren't, but ignore it for now), there is a single entrance into Diamond City and that entrance is heavily guarded (Bethesda's worlds are always underpopulated, imagine four times the guards and turrets present). The entrance can also be shut off at any time. Unless there was a planned, coordinated raid, I don't think the raiders could get through the guards and barriers before the gate closes, and they wouldn't be patient enough to wait until it opens again because there would be other threats lurking around.
The only way to invade Diamond City in this theoretical world where 16-inch steel walls cannot be breached by mini-nukes would be a Trojan horse manoeuvre. That's basically it. Boiling down to basics, super mutants would be too stupid to figure out a plan of attack or coordinate a proper invasion. Raiders and Gunners wouldn't bother - they have dozens of strongholds and it would be more beneficial in the long-run to loot oncoming travellers, and leaving Diamond City alone would allow the travellers to keep coming through their areas endlessly.
The Institute do not care about invading Diamond City - if they wanted it (or indeed, any place at all) destroyed, they could instantly teleport an army of a couple hundred synths backed by twenty to thirty coursers. Bethesda does acknowledge that the Institute can eliminate anything at any time by teleporting a whole invasion force to anywhere within Massachusetts, and that their sole weakness is lack of awareness - they know little to nothing about what's going on the surface. They have not seen the surface, even by cameras, and informants and courser reports alone cannot give them a clear idea.
Took under ten minutes to write that, so don't worry, I didn't waste my time. I type very fast, and I have a lot of free time today.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Woah! Nice! Sadly that most of the reasons that would explain that are not present hence your explanation cannot be taken into account.
ZigzagPX4
The Swiftness of the Ranger
Uh, say again?
If you just mean the part where I mentioned the green walls, that's pretty much the problem. There are numerous entry points into a baseball stadium and even if you couldn't blow a massive hole in what I assume are not very thick walls, then presumably you could still knock the walls down with enough force. Considering the insane amount of munitions raiders possess in Fallout 4, that's very possible.
Apart from that, Diamond City is secure. But that's like saying, "apart from human nature, world peace is possible".
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Assumptions that the walls are thick enough and resistant against MINI-NUKES.
Assumptions that raiders who enjoy killing everything they see won't attack.
Assumptions that the Gunners won't try to take over Diamond City as a puppet city state with Vertibirds.
Assumptions that the Institute don't want Diamond city when many of their actions are antagonistic against them.
ZigzagPX4
The Swiftness of the Ranger
The only assumption is the top one, which is a pretty glaring assumption, yes.
The raiders and Gunners are very unlikely to try and invade anything - the Gunners already have Quincy, and it's stated that they rely on contracts from Goodneighbor and Diamond City for profit, and the raiders are definitely far too disorganised. The Institute do not want to invade Diamond City directly, they state this at your face many times (to a frankly unnecessary degree) they wish to use the Mayor to push the town's influence in their favour.
The Gunners would rather keep taking contracts rather than own Diamond City because they're mercenaries with no capacity for long-term thought and, while more well-equipped than the NCR, are in relatively smaller numbers. The Institute doesn't know they strike fear into the heart of most of the Commonwealth (yes, really), so they really don't know that their own synth operations are interfering with their attempt to indoctrinate Diamond City.
Besides, these are strong assumptions with vague sources to back it up. If we were only discussing this based on solid facts, then we wouldn't be having this talk at all because there are none in Fallout 4. It's an action game, not an RPG, so if I was smart at all I would be leaving it alone.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Raiders aren't organized? When you're sporting mini-nukes and power armour there's no point.
ZigzagPX4
The Swiftness of the Ranger
No point in what?
Dr Fallout
Centurion
In being organized.
ZigzagPX4
The Swiftness of the Ranger
Yeah, I quit. We're definitely overthinking it. It's a game where you shoot bandits with laser guns and join a group of awesome soldiers in power armour to beat up giant chameleons. Enough said.
Ninja
Who?
-Pete Hines
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Fallout is doomed to the wacky and weird.
Skyrim has still many illogical stuff. I have to be fair though, as far as visual story telling goes, Skyrim from all the Beth games, has done the best job so far, particularly with the more smaller settlements. But places like Whiterun, Markath etc. still make no sense in my opinion if you think to much about them. They are barely villages. In such a situation, an open field can give the attacker a lot of advantages as well. Spreading your army, deploying siege weapons, making fortifications of your own and so on.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
The main problem is that their size is different. To be honest Makarth is extremely well protected, with Dwarven walls and a good position.
And yet, all of them are way to small in my opinion. It's not so much the look, even Whiterun is "okeish", as far as that goes. Even though I find the Lord of the Rings refence almost insulting, I mean it's as subtle, like a punch in the face.
Anyway. Visually, the towns in Skyrim are not even THAT bad, they definetly are better compared to Oblivion and Fallout 4. But that's still all just on the surface, the moment you're thinking about it, it starts to make less and less sense.
Anyway. Visually, the towns in Skyrim are not even THAT bad, they definetly are better compared to Oblivion and Fallout 4. But that's still all just on the surface, the moment you're thinking about it, it starts to make less and less sense.
ZigzagPX4
The Swiftness of the Ranger
And yet, all of them are way to small in my opinion. It's not so much the look, even Whiterun is "okeish", as far as that goes. Even though I find the Lord of the Rings refence almost insulting, I mean it's as subtle, like a punch in the face.
Anyway. Visually, the towns in Skyrim are not even THAT bad, they definetly are better compared to Oblivion and Fallout 4. But that's still all just on the surface, the moment you're thinking about it, it starts to make less and less sense.
First step is they need to get rid of that engine they're fruitlessly trying to drag into this generation. Civil wars that define the future of a nation consisted of eight-versus-eight skirmishes and that was not okay. They can't figure out the scale of their "cities" have as many people as convienience stores do at 8pm.
They should switch to a new engine or at least modifiy it more anyway. It is more then obvious they lack in good programmers. I mean working for 15-20 years with the same engine isn't even so much of a problem, if you at least deliver a formidable product. But each Bethesda game was always so full of bugs, you have to ask your self, how can that still happen, even after so many years?
The other part is, even a new engine, no matter how good suited it might be for the game, can't make you suddenly great in story telling. This 8vs8 civil war/demonic invasion that Bethesda is following comes from their stupid idea of squezing epic-battles in to a story and narrative that simply isn't made for it.
I think Dragonage did a pretty decent job of creating the illusion of war in the background, the game had other issues, but it did at least the storytelling pretty well in my opinion. I mean you don't have to show the civil war and battles to give the player a feeling of being there. Like shown here:
The other part is, even a new engine, no matter how good suited it might be for the game, can't make you suddenly great in story telling. This 8vs8 civil war/demonic invasion that Bethesda is following comes from their stupid idea of squezing epic-battles in to a story and narrative that simply isn't made for it.
I think Dragonage did a pretty decent job of creating the illusion of war in the background, the game had other issues, but it did at least the storytelling pretty well in my opinion. I mean you don't have to show the civil war and battles to give the player a feeling of being there. Like shown here: