What kind of weapons do you want to see in F3?

[SquishyDeadBody]

plenty ammo that can be crafted and the ammo can be reused unless the bolt struck a solid surface and shattered.

Ammo would be fairly easy to make, Such as bolts made from bone or sharpened sticks, possibly even made from remnant metals.
I don't see a crossbow being made that easy though.
I find it hard to think someone could come up with a feasible bow string, let alone make the bow accurate enough to hit something being aimed at, without extreme luck.

 

[GatewaysToAnnihilation]

...Machetes, yes, big knives, yes. Crude sharpened chopping weapons used by tribals, crazies, and other people without access to all but the simples of tools; taking a form dictated by the original metal only because means to re-shape it are not on hand, yes. But NOBODY will be smithing swords...

Now, THAT was my idea.

Sharp chopping weapon > spear




I hate that spear.

 

[Sander]

...Machetes, yes, big knives, yes. Crude sharpened chopping weapons used by tribals, crazies, and other people without access to all but the simples of tools; taking a form dictated by the original metal only because means to re-shape it are not on hand, yes. But NOBODY will be smithing swords...

Now, THAT was my idea.

Sharp chopping weapon > spear

Untrue. A spear requires somewhat different tactics, but has a far greater reach. besides, it can be used for hunting.

 

[Morbus]

LIES!

bow are just as accurate and powerful as crossbows.

Ok, sorry, man! No need to get angry about it. I never used an actual crossbow, just in the games, where they are generally more accurate and powerful than bows...

 

[SquishyDeadBody]

LIES!

bow are just as accurate and powerful as crossbows.

Correction, Bows are only as strong as the wielder!
A crossbow has a fairly sustained power where a bow changes with the strength of the person using it.
So if it were ingame the bow would have varied damage and range depending upon the persons strength.


Also check this out, think of the possiblitys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYgbKi4SX5M&mode=related&search=

Better tech and this thing would kick ass.

 

[Kahgan]

The main differance between bows and crossbows is that bows have much higher range, but crossbows punch through armour better, a crossbow bolt can't be as long as a bow arrow, but it can be heavier, it could even be made of metal (iron) if the crossbow is strong enough.

And of course, as SuAside said, training a bowman takes a hell of a lot more time, in fact, they were trained since they were litle kids, in medieval England it was also the duty of every man (pesant) to train bow shooting one hour every day, maybe excluding Sunday (holy day and all that crap).

As to how any of them fit in the fallout universe, I'm not sure...

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

Correction, Bows are only as strong as the wielder!
A crossbow has a fairly sustained power where a bow changes with the strength of the person using it.

Not quite true, different bows require different amounts of effort to draw the bowstring back sure. And if a person isn't strong enough to draw the bowstring back fully then yeah the arrow isn't going to fly with the same amount of power, it probably wouldn't fly very far at all. But if you wasn't strong enough to use the weapon properly would you use it at all?

If you had two people who could use the same bow, but one was very strong and could draw the bowstring back with ease and the other, of average strength and needed to put some effort into it the arrow would still fly with the same power. Especially with modern bows.

The difference being the stronger person could fire several times to every arrow fired by the weaker. Not much difference to crossbows where the stronger person could reload faster.

It would be like the strength requirements, you can either use the bow or you couldn't. Though you'd need a ap handicap for firing speed. Though I don't get why people are so hot on putting these primitive weapons into the game. Surely if you want to run around and hack someone up with a sword or shoot them with a bow you could just go play Oblivion.

It's one thing to have a few prewar hunting and competition bows found in appropriate places and maybe even have the Brotherhood recreate and improve on them, a crossbow equivalent of the supersledge especially designed to take out enclave armour perhaps, but all this homemade fantasy crap?

I thought people were against the tribals in FO2 & FOT?

 

[Sorrow]

Vipers used bows in Fo1 bacground. Maxon's father was killed with a poisoned arrow.

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

I never said there wasn't a place for bows in Fallout. I wouldn't mind seeing some pre-war designs or a crossbow spruced up by the Brotherhood for instance.

I just wondered why people are so hot to put, basic fantasy RPG fair into the game? One thing with Fallout was it was so refreshing to play an RPG without swords or bows etc.

 

[Sorrow]

Because bows, just as spears show the regress of technology. Only few people in Fo world have guns, ammo is sparse and the rest has to use more primitive weapons.
They would be even more in place if creators of Fallout would bother to show what time does with guns and ammo.

 

[Sander]

Because bows, just as spears show the regress of technology. Only few people in Fo world have guns, ammo is sparse and the rest has to use more primitive weapons.
They would be even more in place if creators of Fallout would bother to show what time does with guns and ammo.

Except that this isn't the case in Fallout. As you can see everywhere, there are guns and ammo for lots of people.

 

[Lord 342]

There is a place for the bow, it is silent, and you can get the arrows and use them again. This makes it good for hunting or for stealth attacks. I'm not against seeing some modern hunting bows in Fallout 3, and maybe a few Brotherhood tripple-compound recurve whootsy-fuck super bows that can deliver explosive arrows or whatnot. You could also use radscropion tails to make poison arrows, of course.

I don't think anyone could make a bow, it requires either yew trees or composites, or the ability to make two pieces of wood join precisely, and if you've reached that level of technology you'd make something better. Sport bows are luxury goods. You could make a crude crossbow, though, rather like the wrist launchers from Mad Max 2; they'd make good holdout weapons, plus you could still use other weapons while having them on. Certainly not a primary weapon, but having a backup is always good and if they're hidden you can really surprise someone with them.

But in all Fallout 3, I'd still imagine of all the people you engage in ranged combat with, 75% at least will be using guns. Maybe 13% will mostly throw weapons like grenades, rocks, spears, etc, and maybe 12% would shoot a bow, crossbow, sling, or some other non-firearm weapon.

Please nobody glom onto the idea of slings as really cool and/or really stupid. Remember a sling is just a piece of leather. Kids and bass-ackwards tribals might use 'em, but nobody else, for sure, and I could care less if they're in the game or not.

 

[GatewaysToAnnihilation]

Who would want to play with a sling character?


David?

 

[entropomorphic]

I was not envisioning any fantasy-style bows or crossbows... nor as a common weapon, since there are indeed plenty of guns. I was thinking more along the lines of some hostile hermit who had built one out of a leaf spring or something. It could have very high penetration and damage (maybe even dangerous to Power Armor), but single-shot and take an entire turn to reload.

This would make for an interesting encounter late in the game, when the player is not expecting an unarmored foe to be much of a threat. As a reward, it would give players a powerful but single-use option for their off-hand weapon.

 

[Sorrow]

But in all Fallout 3, I'd still imagine of all the people you engage in ranged combat with, 75% at least will be using guns. Maybe 13% will mostly throw weapons like grenades, rocks, spears, etc, and maybe 12% would shoot a bow, crossbow, sling, or some other non-firearm weapon.

It depends on wealth/social class and location. A lot of people in F1 and F2 didn't have guns. I made a counting of weapons in population of starting areas, earlier in this thread:

And most of the ammo was used up after the war. People looting, people defending themselves... they all need ammo.

Yes... war... war NEVER changes!

Yes. That's why guns and ammo are scarce in Fallout.
In Shady Sands only 3 people have guns.
Seth - HR + 100 .233 in guardhouse
Ian (who shouldn't count because he is a caravan guard)
Peasant woman - 10mm pistol without additional ammo

In Junktown most of civilians don't have guns and some of guards and gangers (only two Skullz gangers out of eleven have firearms) use melee weapons only.

The problem is that ammo is both scarce and expensive - 50 rounds of .223 ammo cost almost as much as a 10 mm Colt pistol, ammo is sold in tens of rounds, not in hundreds or thousands like in present times.
Most of normal people (unlike in pre-war USA) simply can't afford a gun and ammo.

Vault Dweller has a lot of ammo because he/she kills a lot of people and takes their ammo or simply finds guns and ammo in weird places. Guards, gangers and other non-adventuring armed NPCs have few ammo unless they are a part of some powerful organisation (like Hub police, BoS, etc.).

So, ammo isn't abundant on wastes.

Here are few sobering statistics:

Only 2 out of 24 adult people in Klamath downtown have guns and they have mere pipe rifles with 24 rounds (very small amount of ammo) which they don't use. One of them is the guy that teaches PC how to fight and the second one is Sajag, the owner of the Golden Gecko.
Only 3 out of 11 adult people in Klamath Trappertown have guns. All of them carry pipe rifles with 24 rounds which they don't use. All of them are trappers.

It's nowhere near the over one gun for one person proportions from modern USA.
It clearly points that there's guns and ammo shortage.

In Den most of people are unarmed.
Only 11 out of 45 adult people in Den Downtown carry guns.

5 of them are guards in Becky's casino.
(4 guards have 10mm pistols without any additional ammo
1 guard has a shotgun without any additional ammo)
1 of them is Smitty (owner of the Car) and he is the only person in downtown that has spare ammo (mere 24 rounds)
1 of them is a gambler with a 10mm pistol
In Lara's gang only 2 of four members have firearms - 10mm pistols without spare ammo
2 10mm pistols are in possession of thugs (Jet dealers), again no spare ammo.

I think that it shows that firearms in F2 are still a luxury and that ammo is even more scarce than in F1.
The problem is that too much guns are avaible in... shops.
It's weird that slavers (very rich people) don't buy desert eagles and SMGs in Tubby's store...

Ammo for assault rifles in Jake's store in hub would be enough only for two/three soldiers. Some more wealthy (para)military organizations had enough ammo, but tribals/citizens/raiders would have to improvise...

And I think that there should be fever working weapons and ammo than in F1 and F2, because old firearms get used up.

 

[GatewaysToAnnihilation]

Now it's getting interesting...

 

[Gimpster]

Oh noez! Sander made a spelling error! Call the police! It's only like his third language & all.

Anyway... Metal from cars as you put it is unsuitable for any kind of weapon (with the exception of a crude pigsticker).

I know this how? Because I'm on a forum that also house a cutlery subsection.

So yes, you can make a crude weapon from it, but no, you cant make a decent sword out of it. Smithing is indeed complicated, as the stronger the metal, the easier it breaks when struck sideways. The strength of the blade also modifies how easily it looses it's edge. (amongst other things, but the conclusion is: you simply cant have the best of both worlds)
On top of all this, the manner and speed of cooling down and treating the blade are just as important as the materials used to forge the blade.

Impressive and irrelevant as your low level knowledge of metal work is (anyone who wnats to work with metals learns this day 1), you still got a few details wrong, steel becomes harder but more brittle the more carbine you put in it, so you have to balance that out, but compared to midevil steel, todays quality will kick the ass of any antique piece you might have, its like comparin high powered rifles with bow and arrow.
it does not break easier cause you hit it from the side, Thats graphite youre thinking about, or other materials with layered molecular structure.
(although obviously a blade is at is thinnest from the side!! HEY LOOK AT ME!! Im typing out the most obvious crap in the world! WTF am I doing?!

The cooling down process youre describing is the art of "tempering":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempering.

Metal from cars is unsuitable? are you high? Cut out a piece of the chassis and you can make any kind of blade you want, much more suitable than the crap steel they used hundreds of years ago. Heres a bit of steel that will carry tons and tons of wait, but its unsuitable for making a weapon?

Oh god, you're a moron.
Do you know how they came by that metal in the first place?
That's right, by *melting* ore.

1. Melting and purifying iron ore is a very labour intensive process. It would be utterly moronic to do that, when theres tons and tons of scrap metals around. You can just forge or cold forge (do a wiki search on cold forging) some of that, no need to mine for iron and then processing it. See because they melted ore, you dont have to. Neat isnt it?
But then again if youre gonna "smithe" axes the logical route would be to smithe a good nice pickaxe to go mine the iron ore needed for making the said pickaxe.

How is the concept of recycling metals too complicated for you to understand? :shocked:
We had a friend of the family once who made a great big fortune off of this business. Very rich guy, swimming in money.
I present to you the wonderful world of the scrap metal industry:
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Scrap+metal+industry-s14808


2. Its very obvious to me who the moron here is, first you talk about marksmanship in that other thread, (you cant hit someone right next to you!!), and not only didnt you have a clue what you were talking about, you were also giving me attitude.

Then you spammed my combat taunts thread with more bad attitude, after I asked your friend nicely to stop spamming it, and you threatened to vat it. You couldve as well written "Boo hooo I know nothing about marksmanship, firearms and iron working, and since Im writing from the safety of my home, Ill throw a hissy fit like a little kid."
At least it would have been honest. And now with your name calling and flaming.

You know, you can have a discussion with people online and disagree and not resorting to name calling and generally making a fool out of yourself. Grow up.

That's neat, ignoring every argument made in this entire fucking thread.
Yet again: the advantage of a larger 'cutting' surface is only very, very marginal, especially when you take into account a sword like that is harder to wield and has less uses than most other melee weapons.

I did say the advantage would be marginal, but a sword like that wouldnt be harder to wield, I disagree. Kudos on the use of the word "fucking" there, it does a good job of reinforcing your "internet tough guy" image.
I have adressed every single argument in this thread, you are the one who wont explain why I should mine iron ore instead of using some of the really good steel that is just laying about.
You know what? I already know why.

Oh, right, I'm sorry, I forgot that everyone in the Fallout universe uses shotguns all the time.

PS; Sua, it's my 2nd language, not my 3rd.

Use it (I do):
http://dictionary.reference.com/

No, everyone dosent use shotguns all the time. Shotguns, like pipe rifles (and unlike pistols and rifles) dont have rifling in the barrel, hence their large calibers and a large load of propellant in each shell. Still even with these amounts of increased firepower, you get short effective range, because of the lack of the rifling I mentioned earlier. Now imagine a tiny pistol round that is only marginally more deadly than a thrown dart or a gust of wind when shot out of a proper firearm, imagine that fired
out of a smooth bore pipe "rifle". Thats right, unless you shoot them right in the head (the brain part of the head actually) at very very close range, youre gonna have your pipe "rifle" shoved up your ass.

Behold the snake charmer:
http://www.verney-carron.us/pages_us/iii_technical.htm
Not much more than a single barrel and the firing mechanism (by the way, thats true for all shotguns, except pump actions have the feeding system too). A homemade version of this would be bulkier and heavier, but just as effective. More effective with a 12 gauge shell.

Gimpster, are you an experienced blacksmith? Have you ever tried making a three inch knife blade? Have you even tried shaping hot iron?

If you cannot answer yes to at least two of these questions, you should shut the fuck up because you don't know what you are talking about.

Whats with the attitude? Talking tough over the internet, that takes a real man.

No. But it's annoying to see you go on long post after long post, about something other people clearly have a better clue about than you, refusing to give in just because you want swords in Fallout 3

Also, knowing what blacksmithing is about, I take offense by someone talking about it like it's nothing, like it's something any man could do. If you want to buy a good sharp sword nowadays you must pay around 400 to 500 USD, for a really good one, even more ( http://www.jelldragon.com/sharp_viking_swords.htm )
In the viking age, a good sword was worth about the same as a medium sized farm, wich was really a huge deal. After a nuclear disaster, I doubt a sword would be cheaper than today, we're talking months of work here, all depending on raw-material availibility, the spring-steel in cars is great, but after you have forged it up to diferent tempratures, you have to harden it, wich is an art in itself, especially for a blade that is over 60cm.

All that, and it doesn't fit the setting, wich should be good enough a reason to keep it out.

Im not a metal worker, Im an engineer, bUt I do know my way around a blowtorch. I know how to weld things (several ways of welding actually) and have done so on many occasions.

You got 1 thing very wrong, I dont want swords in FO3, I just dont.
Partly I think it dosent really fit the setting (other than in the specifik scenario that I described) and I also dont think there would be a need to manufacture weapons, I think there would be enough choices for weapons already.
But I dont make up phony reasons for thinking that, like: "They cant be made! such technology is unheard of!" or "you need special training to whack people over the head with them! can not be done otherwise!!". Bullshit.

Also what you and your friends fail to understand time after time is that a post apocalyptic scenario would be different from the D & D world (no, its not D & D with guns), in that weve had something called an "industrial revolution" so metals arent nearly as scarce or precious as they were back in the middle ages or earlier.
There are great big chunks of them everywhere, In cars and buildings among other places.



Its beem fun talking to you all, but I cant stick around a forum with an admin like that.

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

You got 1 thing very wrong, I dont want swords in FO3, I just dont.

Well you could of fooled us the way you've been arguing for them.

Its beem fun talking to you all, but I cant stick around a forum with an admin like that.

Sigh there's more than one admin, and it's not like he's abusing his powers. But good bye.

Just noticed some edits you did to your previous posts. Just in case you come back (and they all do eventually).

Actually if you read sorrows list of guns in fallout 2, you will see that there arent that many guns in FO2, not for common people anyway.

And yeah in FO2 they farmer guy outside vault city does give you a Desert Eagle pistol, but then again FO2 has Katanas in it. .

The people who have guns on them tend to use them for their living (except one or two exceptions) perhaps the rest feel safe and secure enough to leave their weapons at home. While you can kill everyone it's not the most desired approach but game balance has to be struck somehow in starting areas. Remember JA2 the yellow shirts from the Army usually with little more than a few pistols or a shotgun.

The farmer I was referring to was the one in Fallout not in FO2.

And swords dont take special training to use, not unless you want to pull some fancy fencing moves against some other fencing guy, you can just use them like you would an axe, for hacking..

You really think you can go into combat with a foot and a half/two foot long sharpened hunk of metal and survive against someone with a proper weapon and training/experience in using it? Maybe if you roll a really high luck score. The sword you have described wouldn't be balanced like a finely forged sword and you'd more likely cut off your own leg than do damage to someone else. I wasn't referring to fancy fencing moves but basic attack and defensive moves. swinging wildly might get you a few luckily hits in but against a well armoured opponent or a group of opponents you wouldn't last long if you didn't know what you were doing with your weapon. A sword is a long piece of metal with a quarter or less of it's length set aside for you to safely grip it. Your hands are close together which is not particulary a comfortable position to hold them in, and while swinging a baseball bat like that is one thing a heavy metal sword is another. Especially if you are going to try and block an opponents attack. On the other hand an axe has a long shaft to grip, you can position your hands how you want much more, it's a lot more comfortable to hold with your hands further apart and blocking is much more instinctive that way. Plus as has been stated before, axes have other uses, so you'd be used to using one and have an advantage over some fool who'd cut out a sword but never bothered to learn how to use it.

Like for instance you could argue that they dont belong in the setting, and I would sort of agree (you might have noticed there are no swords in my FOT mod).

I thought I already did. They don't fit the setting because Fallout already established a gun culture. Maybe not everyone carries one but not everyone is a combatant. And they do need training, all weapons do, but some weapons that are also tools would be familiar enough to use. Guns for hunting, axes for chopping etc but swords don't have any other uses so would need more practice.

 

[Sorrow]

The people who have guns on them tend to use them for their living (except one or two exceptions) perhaps the rest feel safe and secure enough to leave their weapons at home.

I disagree here - some of commoners in Shady Sands carry knives, and all Shady Sands guards except Seth and Ian also carry knives. Also, some of Junktown guards use spears and most of Skulz gangers use HtH weapons.
A lot of people use HtH weapons instead of firearms (probably because they wouldn't be able to get guns/enough ammo).


As for the game balance thing...
I would rather say that the Hub with it's Combat-Armored police, that is equipped with automatic weapons and a lot of ammo and stimpacks is an example of game balance based armament.

Remember JA2 the yellow shirts from the Army usually with little more than a few pistols or a shotgun.

In JA2, there wasn't a logical explanation for such weapon progression, while in F1, both Shady Sands and Junktown are just small, post-apocalyptic towns that can't afford/don't need ammo-eating automatic weapons.

 

[Sander]

Impressive and irrelevant as your low level knowledge of metal work is (anyone who wnats to work with metals learns this day 1), you still got a few details wrong, steel becomes harder but more brittle the more carbine you put in it, so you have to balance that out, but compared to midevil steel, todays quality will kick the ass of any antique piece you might have, its like comparin high powered rifles with bow and arrow.

...
Carbine? I didn't know you put rifles in metal. Awesomez!

it does not break easier cause you hit it from the side, Thats graphite youre thinking about, or other materials with layered molecular structure.
(although obviously a blade is at is thinnest from the side!! HEY LOOK AT ME!! Im typing out the most obvious crap in the world! WTF am I doing?!

The cooling down process youre describing is the art of "tempering":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempering.

Metal from cars is unsuitable? are you high? Cut out a piece of the chassis and you can make any kind of blade you want, much more suitable than the crap steel they used hundreds of years ago. Heres a bit of steel that will carry tons and tons of wait, but its unsuitable for making a weapon?

Aha, and we're the ones who don't know anything about metalwork?
For fuck's sake man: metal that can carry tons of 'wait' isn't immediately suitable to make a sharp and balanced blade from.
And as has been explained a dozen fucking times, otherwise you're just wielding a fucking club.

1. Melting and purifying iron ore is a very labour intensive process. It would be utterly moronic to do that, when theres tons and tons of scrap metals around. You can just forge or cold forge (do a wiki search on cold forging) some of that, no need to mine for iron and then processing it. See because they melted ore, you dont have to. Neat isnt it?

Oh, no shit sherlock? Do you really mean that? I never would have guessed.
Too bad that this is completely irrelevant to a tangent on the meaning of the word 'smithing'.
Fuck.

But then again if youre gonna "smithe" axes the logical route would be to smithe a good nice pickaxe to go mine the iron ore needed for making the said pickaxe.

...
*sigh*
Nice troll, Gimpster.

How is the concept of recycling metals too complicated for you to understand? :shocked:
We had a friend of the family once who made a great big fortune off of this business. Very rich guy, swimming in money.
I present to you the wonderful world of the scrap metal industry:
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Scrap+metal+industry-s14808

Oh noez metal is recycable!
Yeah, like I ever protested that.
Fucktard.

2. Its very obvious to me who the moron here is, first you talk about marksmanship in that other thread, (you cant hit someone right next to you!!),

You can't accurately with a large rifle with anything other than a hip shot.
Now stop derailing this thread. If you have something to add, do it in the appropriate thread.

and not only didnt you have a clue what you were talking about, you were also giving me attitude.

I haven't seen a single valid argument come from your hands, and you actually resorted to the lamest tactic ever, which is 'OH MY GOD YOU MADE A SPELLING ERROR!!!'
After which you made several in this post.

Then you spammed my combat taunts thread with more bad attitude, after I asked your friend nicely to stop spamming it, and you threatened to vat it. You couldve as well written "Boo hooo I know nothing about marksmanship, firearms and iron working, and since Im writing from the safety of my home, Ill throw a hissy fit like a little kid."
At least it would have been honest. And now with your name calling and flaming.

You know, you can have a discussion with people online and disagree and not resorting to name calling and generally making a fool out of yourself. Grow up.

Boo fucking hoo. Reply with some valid arguments and it's okay.
I also never spammed your combat taunts thread, but told people to get it on-topic including you.

But if all you can do is whine, that's fine by me, but don't expect to hang around here.

I did say the advantage would be marginal, but a sword like that wouldnt be harder to wield, I disagree. Kudos on the use of the word "fucking" there, it does a good job of reinforcing your "internet tough guy" image.
I have adressed every single argument in this thread, you are the one who wont explain why I should mine iron ore instead of using some of the really good steel that is just laying about.
You know what? I already know why.

...
You entirely missed my point, didn't you?

Use it (I do):
http://dictionary.reference.com/

Ahahahaha!
That must explain the 'wait' and 'carbines' in here. Idiot.

No, everyone dosent use shotguns all the time. Shotguns, like pipe rifles (and unlike pistols and rifles) dont have rifling in the barrel, hence their large calibers and a large load of propellant in each shell. Still even with these amounts of increased firepower, you get short effective range, because of the lack of the rifling I mentioned earlier. Now imagine a tiny pistol round that is only marginally more deadly than a thrown dart or a gust of wind when shot out of a proper firearm, imagine that fired
out of a smooth bore pipe "rifle". Thats right, unless you shoot them right in the head (the brain part of the head actually) at very very close range, youre gonna have your pipe "rifle" shoved up your ass.

Thantks for ignoring the point.

Behold the snake charmer:
http://www.verney-carron.us/pages_us/iii_technical.htm
Not much more than a single barrel and the firing mechanism (by the way, thats true for all shotguns, except pump actions have the feeding system too). A homemade version of this would be bulkier and heavier, but just as effective. More effective with a 12 gauge shell.

Ooh, another irrelevant tangent.

Im not a metal worker, Im an engineer, bUt I do know my way around a blowtorch. I know how to weld things (several ways of welding actually) and have done so on many occasions.

You got 1 thing very wrong, I dont want swords in FO3, I just dont.
Partly I think it dosent really fit the setting (other than in the specifik scenario that I described) and I also dont think there would be a need to manufacture weapons, I think there would be enough choices for weapons already.

...
*sigh*
So you essentially admit to trolling these past few posts? That's nice.

But I dont make up phony reasons for thinking that, like: "They cant be made! such technology is unheard of!" or "you need special training to whack people over the head with them! can not be done otherwise!!". Bullshit.

Also what you and your friends fail to understand time after time is that a post apocalyptic scenario would be different from the D & D world (no, its not D & D with guns), in that weve had something called an "industrial revolution" so metals arent nearly as scarce or precious as they were back in the middle ages or earlier.
There are great big chunks of them everywhere, In cars and buildings among other places.

You really have taken away *nothing at all* from this thread, have you?

Its beem fun talking to you all, but I cant stick around a forum with an admin like that.

Okay. Fuck off and goodbye, then.