What Makes A Good Fallout Game?

0wing said:
Eh, map splitting worked in isometric games but in FP it'll look a bit cheesy and disjoined.
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I don't really see how it'd work there but not here. No different in practice than traveling to DLC locations or going through any door (other than the map travel part, of course, which could basically be handled via a cutscene). I'd find it much less disjointed than the current way of safe passage through pipboy "teleportation" (I know it wants to pass off as walking the distance since time passes, but that's not how it feels since time makes no difference anywhere and it's completely safe as opposed to manual traveling).

0wing said:
Wasn't it actually 15 month for FNV? But I was talking about Fallout 2, less than year!
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I remember Sawyer saying it was 18 months. And yeah, I misread the Fallout 2 part.
 
Kohno said:
I don't really see how it'd work there but not here. No different in practice than traveling to DLC locations or going through any door (other than the map travel part, of course, which could basically be handled via a cutscene). I'd find it much less disjointed than the current way of safe passage through pipboy "teleportation" (I know it wants to pass off as walking the distance since time passes, but that's not how it feels since time makes no difference anywhere and it's completely safe as opposed to manual traveling).
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Well, I feel the opposite. You are a red dot on a map BOOM, you are a person BOOM dot again. I wish I could handwave it as "it's a GPS map" but in reality, actual pip-boy maps on the locations not only looks different than map of the state but also requiers motion sensor for red dots. Not only that but Pip-Boy doesn't look like it can show more than two (green and red) colors on screen (three if you consider the background as a color). And I don't remember if time actually have a difference more than it have in FNV.
 
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0wing said:
Well, I feel the opposite. You are a red dot on a map BOOM, you are a person BOOM dot again. I wish I could handwave it as "it's a GPS map" but in reality, actual pip-boy maps on the locations not only looks different than map of the state but also requiers motion sensor for red dots. Not only that but Pip-Boy doesn't look like it can show more than two (green and red) colors on screen (three if you consider the background as a color). And I don't remember if time actually have a difference more than it have in FNV.
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What you seem to lack is the ability to take in the abstract. Or maybe not lack it, but in this case you seem to take it too literally when it is supposed to be taken figuratively (think of the Indiana Jones movies where a similiar red dot line is drawn every time Indy travels somewhere). The character doesn't "BOOM" turn into a dot on a 2D map and "BOOM" back to his physical self. The maptravel is just a convenient representation of days/weeks/months worth of eventless journey through nothing under the burning sun where the occasional encounters with what little life there is left could be considered a godsend or equally a potential death sentence or even a mirage, the depiction of which in manual real time trodding would be excruciatingly boring and pointless (think about Desert Bus).

You can't depict the scale and the vast wasteland that Fallout and Fallout 2 had in a Bethesda manner where everything looks like its supposed to be dead on the outset but is actually teeming with life even to the point of ridiculousness, and everything is physically, literally, a couple of minutes away from each other despite what the in-game clock says. It tries to depict something else, but is quite literally "Fallout in da hood".
 
This is all really great feedback, but what about the little things like weapons and armor, what kind if limitations in design or new designs should be explored.

For example, I liked the assaultron, I think that the east coast was a bit more advanced in robotics because the east coast could have more bases. As well as secret facilities for projects and research. The assaultron should feel almost like an special unit.

Another idea is new weapons. I loved the pipe rifles in Fallout 4 because it is real, and parts are widely avalible. What other weapons would be nice to see.
 
Fallout Guy117 said:
This is all really great feedback, but what about the little things like weapons and armor
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It's a matter of priorities (at least for me). The way I see it, it doesn't matter what kind of gear and accessories the game packs if the core of the game isn't right; and more over, if the core design and principles are right, the plethora of those little things more than likely work just fine (at least in the face of the question: "What makes a good Fallout game?", awesome rifles and powerarmors or the lack thereof do not, awesome core design does, and what ever comes on top of that is just icing).

But that's just me of course.
 
0wing said:
You are everywhere with '' has to be turn-based' now? We Vince D.Weller now? Tactics and Van Buren (it's in tech demo so shut up on 'not happend!') does give an option to turn some sort of 'real time', Tim Cain himself bring the same to Arcanum. You won't question authority of Tim Cain, do you?

Nope, sir. Turnbased combat is secondary thing. If not background thing.
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Actually, Arcanum's Real Time mode is a bloody mess and chaotic. It's completely dumb and arguably what made the combat in Arcanum kind of held back, and even some of the Codexers would argue that Arcanum's combat wouldn't be so shitty if only they didn't try to balance the game around the possibility of being able to use either Turn-Based or Real-Time.

And haven't you paid attention to what Gizmojunk and Crni Vuk have been mentioning in this site for years (or as long as I can remember when first lurking this site)? Fallout 1 was made with Turn-Based combat in mind! Tim Cain and friends already made it clear, as Kohno have said before.
 
Alright guys thank you for a great first day of feed back! I hope you can maybe get others to take a look and leave a commet of there own. Know i have another question to ask, in Fallout 4 Boston, as in the city itself had a personality about it. While you can always add more, do you think giving each wasteland a certain personality helps the game. This included in
Ts pre war history of course, and how it effects the post war form.
 
For me? Freedom, atmosphere and music, world building, meaningful choices, story and the endlessly fun leveling system with SPECIAL, skills, perks and traits. It's that simple, pretty hard to screw up but for some reason Bethesda is allergic to traits and meaningful choices.
 
Paladin Waffles said:
For me? Freedom, atmosphere and music, world building, meaningful choices, story and the endlessly fun leveling system with SPECIAL, skills, perks and traits. It's that simple, pretty hard to screw up but for some reason Bethesda is allergic to traits and meaningful choices.
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Okay, so using things like the Red Sox stadium and that one Irish pub we're good starts, but needed more. Let's not also forget historical monuments, but maybe Boston famous singers would have helped. As well as more diverse and deeper choices.
 
Fallout Guy117 said:
Okay, so using things like the Red Sox stadium and that one Irish pub we're good starts, but needed more. Let's not also forget historical monuments, but maybe Boston famous singers would have helped. As well as more diverse and deeper choices.
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I don't think you'd need more famous monuments and structures. You don't need too many to appear since most of these buildings would have been destroyed in a post-apocalyptic world unless you manage to waive an excuse like New Vegas did (fewer nukes fell near that region etc.) Just a few to show what the region used to be but they should not have to be the main attraction.

Diverse and deeper choices, on the other hand, are more important. A good RPG will take the player's chosen build into account and allow the player to decide how a narrative could proceed based on their build (like a Courier with immense knowledge of Medicine via a high Medicine skill being able to diagnose people on a whim). Skill-checks are a good way to acknowledge player input as the player's chosen skills and stats are taken into account in-game.

Below is a quote of Chris Avellone that I quite agree with when it comes to making a good Fallout game:
The biggest lesson [learned from Fallout 2] was if you give the player the ability to create a certain type of character, make sure that you honour the player's character build. What I mean by that is if you give a character to option to dump 500 points into speech. Make sure they have an experience that's very cool and is appropriate for a speech based character. The same thing is true if you're a stupid combat monster, if you're a sneaky thief who no one ever sees... If you're allowing the players to build a character like that with the rule set, then make sure your content supports that experience.
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CerberusGate said:
I don't think you'd need more famous monuments and structures. You don't need too many to appear since most of these buildings would have been destroyed in a post-apocalyptic world unless you manage to waive an excuse like New Vegas did (fewer nukes fell near that region etc.) Just a few to show what the region used to be but they should not have to be the main attraction.

Diverse and deeper choices, on the other hand, are more important. A good RPG will take the player's chosen build into account and allow the player to decide how a narrative could proceed based on their build (like a Courier with immense knowledge of Medicine via a high Medicine skill being able to diagnose people on a whim). Skill-checks are a good way to acknowledge player input as the player's chosen skills and stats are taken into account in-game.

Below is a quote of Chris Avellone that I quite agree with when it comes to making a good Fallout game:
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That is an excellent quote, thank you so much for a great bit off feed back. Make sure that the type of character, either it be a Pacifict character, or a moderate in many fields character both have equal representation. Very good bit of feed back, thank you!
 
Fallout Guy117 said:
I see,mout shouldn't there still be a small trickle of the dark and whacky fallout famous humor?
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Whacky as in references. Fallout 2 has you go back in time to break the water chip from Fallout and meet the Bridge of Death guy from Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail, and Fallout New Vegas has you running around a '50s-style sci-fi horror movie in Old World Blues.

Personally I enjoy this shit, but there are plenty of people here who find it a little too whacky for their tastes. I agree there should always be moments of light-hearted humour, but this should come from characters and situations, as is done in most films.

Like I said, keep stuff like that optional, then everyone's happy. New Vegas struck a perfect chord in mixing dark humour with the dark storytelling, and having Wild Wasteland be an optional thing for weirdos like me who enjoy pop culture references.

And Deathclaws called Stripe:

latest
 
Here's an it resting question that I'd love to have some feedback on. We all know that there were giant corporations in the Fallout Universe. New Vegas did a good job with sunset sarsaparilla, and while not as deep as NV, Bethesda did show that there was some competition with Poseidon Energy with the company Mass Fusion. What I want to wonder is what kind of other company's do you want to learn about.

A different 2nd to GNR radio station?

Or maybe a type of Coffee company, better yet, a competitive chain of food stores against Super duper Mart.
 
Fallout Guy117 said:
Here's an it resting question that I'd love to have some feedback on. We all know that there were giant corporations in the Fallout Universe. New Vegas did a good job with sunset sarsaparilla, and while not as deep as NV, Bethesda did show that there was some competition with Poseidon Energy with the company Mass Fusion. What I want to wonder is what kind of other company's do you want to learn about.

A different 2nd to GNR radio station?

Or maybe a type of Coffee company, better yet, a competitive chain of food stores against Super duper Mart.
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A company in direct competition to Vault-tec perhaps? One that would have been quickly buried by its direct competitor since Vault-tec got contracted by the government and all. It would be interesting to see if that company had their own shelter plans that was made redundant by Project Safehouse (the Vaults).

Honestly, most of the corporations of pre-War times would not play much of a role in post-War times except for their creations causing problems in post-War times like the Star caps of Sunset Sarsaparilla that inspired a legend that people would kill each other over (which turned out to be mostly useless for post-War civilians).
 
There are a few companies we know existed at least in FO3:
  • A Cuppa Joe - It's a chain of coffee shops
  • Super Duper Mart - Chain of Supermarkets
  • People's Bank of Point Lookout - Bank
  • Cornucopia Fresh Groceries - A chain of grocery stores
  • Radiation King - Manufacturer of radio and television sets
  • Wilson Automatoys - Toys manufacturer (created the Giddyup Buttercup)
  • Dot's Diner - A chain of diners
  • Pulowski Preservation Services - Personal shelters manufacturer
  • Red Racer - Manufacturer of tricycles
  • Chryslus Corporation - Automobile manufacturer
  • Lee Rapid Pharmaceuticals - A pharmaceutical company
  • Wattz Electronics - Electronics manufacturer (including weaponry)
I am sure there are way more already present in the Fallout games. These are the ones I could remember but I have no time now to try and research for others because I was supposed to be in bed asleep almost 1 hour ago... Now I am going to sleep.
 
I'm a little concerned with where you're going with this, and gotta pull a flag and call a timeout for a second.

It sounds like you're wanting to shove in and expand on Fallout things for the sake of showcasing Fallout things. Stop. You are falling into the exact same trap Bethesda did. Nobody cares about the reproductive cycle of mirelurks on it's own. Nobody cares about which company manufactured the servos used in Sentry-bots on it's own. Fallout's universe really falls apart and becomes un-cool when you try to over explain it for the sake of 'building a universe'. It has always just been a backdrop that sets you at a tense unease, to better tell morally grey stories in. I repeat; It should not be in the forefront. Your character and his story arc should be in the forefront.

You should be thinking, "Okay, how would this company service the story I'm trying to tell?" rather than "wouldn't it be awesome to write in an underwater vault just for the sake of having an underwater vault?"

Especially as a single writer. Fluff is nice but you have to worry about cranking your main story on to paper right now.
 
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