What of Fallout 3 is considered "true" canon/fanon

Kindly form your thoughts (and they are ONLY thoughts) in a way that makes them visually appealing, because as they are, scrambled and chopped apart, and rife with unnecessary memes to "accentuate" your "points", that shit's damn near unreadable. From what little I managed to gather from that mess you called a "reply", you FAILED to prove me wrong. I STATED that I was paraphrasing, not directly quoting, which you seem to have missed. The CONTEXT of the point was endorsement of the game, which means NOT "after playing it". You had ONE "before" link, and it wasn't addressing my paraphrasal, the rest were all "after", and irrelevant. Not to mention the entirely separate thread where it was pointed out that many quotes were political in nature, yet you used them as if they were honest expressions.

So, essentially, you regurgitated details from several other conversations, which had no context nor did they address what I said. Fix that, please, before you go barking "PROVEN WRONG!!!!"
 
No, I won't conform to your ideal format. As my response was fromatted in a simple enough pattern for any
2nd grade reading comprehension test. Here is a map though in case you get lost.


Overall theme : No creater of Fallout has gone on record stating hate.

--Subject #1
---link supporting theme
--Subject #1a
-- link supporting theme
-----quotes from link that support theme
--Commentary on links that support my theme

BREAK


--Subject #2
-- link supporting theme
-----quotes from link that support theme
--Commentary on links that support my theme
----link showing relevance of statement ie ((Fargo's Fallout relevance))
--Time stamps of video link supporting relevance
---Commentary on links that support my theme


BREAK ((see a pattern yet?))

--Subject 3
--No link, direct quotation
-commentary on quotation

Break
--subject4
--statement on subject
--link showing difficulty involved finding quote
--link supporting theme
---quotes from link
--subject 4a
--link supporting theme
--commentary on link

--commentary anticipating assinine responses

Hope the map helps , I can't simplify it further


You stated "paraphrasing"

A paraphrase does not need to accompany a direct quotation, but when this is so,

the paraphrase typically serves to put the source's statement into perspective or to clarify the context in which it appeared


You incorrectly stated context and perspective of the source material.

So "YOU" have yet to prove "anything". How about actual quotes that support
your original statement that they "HATED IT". Because I have provided multiple quotes and actual video contrary.

Irrelevant ? Really ? So blatant dismissal proving you are wrong is your last resort?, lame.

I provided quotes, asked and answered. Maybe you have a magic fallout creator decoder ring, but I don't.
So when someone is on video asked their opinion and they give it, I take it at face value.

I dont need to fix anything, I provided proof, you provided rhetoric, people are free to "assume" what they
will, given that direct quotes are not taken as quotes. I have nothing to prove to you or any other NMA member.
 
No, that "map" just makes it uglier... Maybe that works for you, but it's visually distracting, and doesn't help assert any point. Even if it wasn't so messy to look at, from what I COULD read of it, you still addressed a point that I had NOTHING to do with, and passed it off as refuting me. In fact, you didn't refute a damn thing I said. Now I've personally gone on a hunt for the actual quote that I paraphrased, but seeing as it's so obscure, and most of the news regarding "bitterness about Bethesda regarding Fallout" always directs towards the well-known details about the lawsuit, I have yet to find it. However, my efforts amount to me acquiescing to your demands and assertions of me being wrong, yet you don't have the decency to reciprocate that. It's not "conformity", it's me stating outright that your model was difficult to look at, and still is. Hyphens everywhere, indentations where they're unnecessary, zero summarizations to help move your points along. You don't HAVE to "do it my way", but there's heaps of options at your disposal to help your point across, but you're too stubborn to change your format.

Here's how it's done:
"In summary, what you wrote was difficult to comprehend due to its structure, and you failed to refute any previous points while falsely claiming otherwise. It would be appreciated if you could amend these issues, thank you."

Then again, this whole conversation is derailing to the topic, so if you're not going to budge, I have no intention of continuing it.
 
Atomkilla said:
One more thing that isn't negligible. It is DC. It may be USA's center of administration, the capital city, but it is on East Coast. Most of the nuclear bombardment came from the west, across the Pacific, so it is logical that West Coast would have a far greater treatment in the war. Looking at it, it seems the situation was a bit different.

Wasn't it stated that the nukes struck the West Coast first, allowing more people to get into the vaults on the East Coast? :?
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
BigBoss said:
1) Legally, it is canon.


That is more of a technicality than something all fans would agree upon.
It may have the same name but that does not make it the same


BigBoss said:
BigBoss said:
Fallout 3 (not Van Buren F3) was given its blessing by the original fallout creators.

They did?

I think this is more because the original creators could say little otherwise as they don't have influence anymore, plus in the gaming industry it's sort of a 'no no' to bad mouth rivals.
It's rather undiplomatic and people never know if they get to work for the very company they called a 'rotten fish' months or years ago.
Some people do remember such things.


BigBoss said:
And finally;

3) Its a great game.

That is a matter of taste man, the difference between an opinion and a fact is always that one always depends on the person and the other can be proven.

I can give you plenty of reasons why Fallout 3 is not a good game and why it should be de-canonized as it's a stain on the Fallout brand along with Fallout Brotherhood of Steel. (in fact I consider FOBOS at some points far superior to Fallout 3, for one it had at least an original story)

Yeah sorry. Let me re-phase the third reason. I didn't mean to say it was a great game. I used to (and still do) think Fallout 1 (and 2) was legendary. I worshiped Fallout 1 When I said "great game", I meant it was a good play. Now, when I said "great game", I did not mean it was extreme greatness, and deserves the highest seat among games. I was just stating it wasn't a bad play. It is a game that can be enjoyed if you let it. It is, however, not a GREAT GAME, as I may have falsely intended. I was simply implying that it wasn't a bad play.

I am stating that while Fallout 3 wasn't a "ten out of ten". It wasn't that bad of a game. I would rate it a "seven out of ten". A fair play. Not great, but also not bad.

So do you get what I meant?
 
Also, I would like to point out that I do not considered Fallout to be Original Canon. I consider it an official game of the series, but as a spin-off. You catch where I am going with this?

I look at Fallout 3 as a spin-off. As something someone else wanted to try.

Now, if someone came up to me and asked me to name the Fallout games in order, I would not say "FO 1, FO 2, FO 3".

I would say, FO 1, and 2. Thats it. Maybe NV. Maybe...

If someone came up to me and said, "can you name the unofficial fallout games"?

I would say "Fallout 3, and FO: Tactics".

you get it. Now I am not saying Fallout Tactics is a good game. Because when I went to re-buy Fallout 1 and 2, I got the classic collection, and FO: T was included. Since my intro to the Fallout series in 2003 I had never attempted to play this game. But when I was bored and decided to try, I stopped after approximately 15 minutes. I didn't even get through the first mission before uninstalling that part of the game.

Though it is a piece of shit, figuratively speaking, that does not mean it is not an unofficial canon spin-off. This is the same section I would classify Fallout 3 as.
 
I suppose it would make sense with not calling it original canon, when other developers have made the game. It's the same idea that Metroid: Other M isn't considered canon. Not just because it was a trainwreck, but because the developer was different, and in turn will create a different character/atmosphere for the game.
 
Dukeanumberone said:
SNAPSLAV incorrectly wrote and the opined

I seem to recall that not only DIDN'T they, but they even cursed about it, and swore openly about how they detested its very creation. To paraphrase what they said about it (since I can't remember the actual quote, word for word): "It feels like watching your kid taken away from you after a bitter divorce and seeing them taken from their bitch of a mother by some guy you don't even know. Maybe they're okay, and you've heard of them, but you just don't feel like it's right to let a child grow up under someone other than its real, loving parent."

They hated it. They didn't endorse it.

But as was already exceedingly pointed out, fanon is fanon, no matter what you think. The game was made by fans (allegedly), not by its original creators, so that in and of itself made it fanon. But to top it off, it was shit, and much of its content (no, NOT just MZ) spat in the face of the established canon. So whether you "think" it is or isn't, or whether you "like it" or not, it doesn't really matter; the shit's fanon. If you like it, then you like fanon; it doesn't magically change that it isn't canon.

now to separate reality from opinion
----------------------------------------
Tim cain Before Playing

http://www.edge-online.com/news/what-tim-cain-thinks-fallout-3/


Tim cain after Playing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=m4XVW6qcuzM&NR=1
"I actually enjoyed playing it, and I know some of my fans were dissapointed
when I said I enjoyed playing it."

MOAR QUOTZ


-----"there were a lot of suprises , SOME of them pleasant"
-----"I thought they did a GOOD job of understood what the universe was like and then setting a different kind of game to it"
-----"they understood special and they adapted that well to um a first person style rpg and a real time rpg"
-----"I think they did a good job understanding the LORE of the game, I think they did a lot of that well"
-----"the tricky part of FO is the humor and i find im a little critical about...but, humor is very personal and subjective..you honestly cant slight someone for not having the exact same sense of humor you have "
-----" I think it fits with oblivion in their product line... I don't think FO 1/2 fit with their product line well"
-----"FEV was supposed to be localized to CA, I would have done something completely different."
------" I think FO3 they should have taken it off in a different direction more"

So obviously he would have done it different and this is far from a shinning endorsement
but it vastly different from the NMA PARTY LINE of his opinion ,
which is grossly inaccurate.


****
Brian Fargo After
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp2FsFgd9Uo

watch the vid or be lazy here with quotes when asked of F3
---"I dont have a problem with it"
---"I think they did a respectable job"
---"I think they did an excellent job"
---"They did a nice job with it"'
---"I would have probably done an edgier product"
---"I think we can all nitpick for what it is"

Obviously not hate, and if wondering what Fargo contributed how about source material (something constantly griped about here) aka WASTELAND,
how about naming it FALLOUT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa5IzHhAdi4&list=PLPzB8ZYVQNKUMNZ6FWXFBisQCkB_2AUvX
26:15 LAZY PEOPLE
or PERKS(yes thats right taylor designed it after FARGO played and wanted more from leveling)
43:16 same link LAZY PEOPLE

So obviously he would have done it different and this is far from a shinning endorsement
but it vastly different from the NMA PARTY LINE of his opinion ,
which is grossly inaccurate.

******
Chris Taylor

You've probably been asked this before, but what are your thoughts on Fallout 3?

I once said I'd only comment on Fallout 3 if I had nice things to say about it.

I really liked Fallout New Vegas. I thought it was a very good game.
They had a good story, the interactivity was much improved and the Fallout humor was there
in the right amount. Obsidian did a great job on New Vegas.
I'm biased, of course, and think that FO1 was the best of the series.
New Vegas is very good and comes closer to FO1 for me than any of the other games.

So pretty much on par with NMA PARTY LINE. 1/3 so far lets keep going
...................
Leonard Boyarski

so often misquoted as "To paraphrase what they said about it
(since I can't remember the actual quote, word for word):
"It feels like watching your kid taken away from you after a
bitter divorce and seeing them taken from their bitch of a
mother by some guy you don't even know."

I know its hard to be objective when your filled with hate SNAP but that is no excuse for being LAZY,
see GOOGLE: https://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=...b747fe93862d6b&bpcl=40096503&biw=1888&bih=809

WHEN IN ACTUALITY IT IS>>>
http://www.duckandcover.cx/content.php?id=63


On the subject of Fallout 3, how do you feel about Bethesda getting the license, and what direction do you see them taking the series?

""To be perfectly honest, I was extremely disappointed that we did not get the chance to make the next Fallout game.
((((((((This has nothing to do with Bethesda ))))(((((OOOH LOOK WHAT I FOUND , AN OFTEN MISREPRESENTED QUOTE)))), it's just that we've always felt that Fallout was ours and it was just a
technicality that Interplay happened to own it. It sort of felt as if our child had been sold to the highest bidder,
and we had to just sit by and watch. As far as where they will take it, you'd have to ask them that.
Since I have absolutely no idea what their plans are,
I can't comment on whether I think they're going in the right direction with it or not. ""

that was before , here is after
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59467

"LB: I don't like to comment on other people's games. I liked the Fallout 3 stuff that was done. One of the most interesting aspects of it... I started as an art director on Fallout 3 [the cancelled version known as "Project Van Buren" at Interplay], and I did a little art on it, so it was interesting seeing a lot of art that I had done recreated in this different space by different artists, but, you know, they obviously bought this license, and they had a love for it.

They put their heart and soul into it. It's not easy making games. [laughs] You know, I'm not going to come along and second-guess what other people have done. The people who made Diablo before me could say the same thing about what we're doing with Diablo III, so I wish them all the best of luck with what they're doing with it.


---ohh noes damning evidence, wait wuht?, not damning of F3?


RAAWRRRRRR , I CALL HAXORS, LIES , LYES, EVERYONE MUST HATE FALLOUT 3!!!!!!!!!!


Congratulations, you've not only succeeded in doing nothing, you've also managed to make a complete ass of yourself. Give yourself a good pat on the back.

Remind me why I should give a fuck about the opinion of the original game devs, please. I'd really like to know just why their opinions matter more than my views upon this game. Just because they made the original games (which I admit I've never played {go ahead and berate me, NMA}), doesn't mean I have to care about what they think. Their views are no more substantial than mine or anyone else's. And really, one of the game devs said that Fallout 3's attention to detail was "amazing". I could name hundreds of examples of what's wrong with such a statement, and that really just sort of sullies his opinion outright, only adding to more of why I don't give a crap.

You're not as smart as you think you are, kid. Try to make sure you know what you're talking about before talking about it.
 
On top of that, almost all of those quotes demonstrate a definite level of ambivalence in their praise, and one has but to employ a modicum of reading comprehension to find an entire trove of it. They cherry-pick good things to say about it. They make allowances and avoid head-on commentaries ("I think we can all nitpick for what it is," "Making games is hard"). And they repeatedly state that they might have done things differently. No, that's not a round condemnation by any means; what it does resemble is the mealy-mouthed praise you might give a nephew's mediocre middle school play.

One, maybe two of the original devs did publicly embrace the direction Bethesda took the license in. Most of the others answered with what essentially amounted to "Fun, markedly Bethesda-style game" a sentiment that, unsurprisingly, is mirrored by perhaps the majority of the regular posters to this site. Why is this still an issue?
 
I guess a few people expected secretly the original developers would blaze in like knights on horses attacking the game.

But what ever we think about F3, this kind of idea is simply wishful thinking as its not only unrealistic but also unprofessional.

One of the very few examples where you see a developer really talk in a rather negative way about a game is with Diablo 3 where one of the famous faces behind Diablo 2 explained his opinion about Diablo 3. It was nothing offensive, but seriously, its like this double-speak where you damn know what it means - even if you cant be sure. But as said, thats usually rare.

I think its a similar behavior to artists. We say our opinion, but we usually don't outright bash others work. Its simply not very professional.
 
Well bashing another dudes work isn't really helpful at all. That's just being an unprofesisonal dick. Having your criticisms is one thing, but even then, those aren't really things for the public forum.
 
Donnellon1960

Congratulations, you've not only succeeded in doing nothing, you've also managed to make a complete ass of yourself. Give yourself a good pat on the back.

Remind me why I should give a fuck about the opinion of the original game devs, please. I'd really like to know just why their opinions matter more than my views upon this game. Just because they made the original games (which I admit I've never played {go ahead and berate me, NMA}), doesn't mean I have to care about what they think. Their views are no more substantial than mine or anyone else's. And really, one of the game devs said that Fallout 3's attention to detail was "amazing". I could name hundreds of examples of what's wrong with such a statement, and that really just sort of sullies his opinion outright, only adding to more of why I don't give a crap.

You're not as smart as you think you are, kid. Try to make sure you know what you're talking about before talking about it.

I missed the part where you said anything use full or on topic, can you point to it? Oh wait you didn't, here I'll make it relevant though.


Remind me why I should give a fuck about the opinion of the original game devs, please...Just because they made the original games...Their views are no more substantial than mine or anyone else's

-Because without them there would be no FALLOUT.
No FALLOUT= no NMA ( a board dedicated to a IP (created by people, not robots or osmosis). A little respect and weight would be given by a decent human being, oh well.

You're not as smart as you think you are, kid. Try to make sure you know what you're talking about before talking about it.

LOLZORZ. EPIC ending for your post.



Crni Vuk


I guess a few people expected secretly the original developers would blaze in like knights on horses attacking the game.

I agree that is the sentiment on this site in regards to FO3 , but without actual proof of it occurring, it is simply wish full thinking, not fact. Thats the whole reason for the long post that started this derail.

Yamu

Why is this still an issue?

Thats what I've been saying.


and BACK TO MY ORIGINAL TOPIC

I realize the other canon thread was locked and don't intend to start a flame/troll war but have an honest question of the long-term fans.

What if anything do you consider canon from FO3 ?

Please stick only to what is you consider to be cannon, and why, and not what isn't, as that topic is beaten to death 100 ways.

I hope this can be a discussion and not a bash 3 fest that most 3 posts turn into. I get why the community has issues with it and its publisher, so no need to elaborate there. I am simply curious as to what if anything the community believes 3 might have contributed to the canon
 
Everything is canon. Why? Because the people who own the rights say so. Did it contribute anything? Not really. The Enclave is back, then they are gone. Another BoS offshoot and a group of outcasts who are like the original group showed up. Pure water for the east coast, at least parts of it. Aliens are now canon. Not much has changed other than that. Nothing original has been added either now that I think about it. All rehashes of other shit done before. Which is what many people hate about the game in the first place. Same old shit with a new wrapper.

So...nothing really to write home about. No new factions worth talking about. No interesting plot developments. Not even any good quests to speak of. I take that back, the Pitt and Point Lookout were interesting. There you go. Even that was barely passable though. Pitt had a decent story but it played horribly. Point Lookout was fun to play but had a shit story.

I don't understand the whole canon debate though. It's not up for debate. Doesn't matter what any motherfucker says. You can deny it until you turn blue in the face, it's still canon, no matter how shitty it is. Some people just refuse to think of it that way, but at the end of the day, Fallout 4 will probably reference F3, not New Vegas. So you will have ANOTHER game backing up F3 and saying, "This shit counts as canon. Love it or hate it. Its true."

There ya go.

Duke you should try to play Fallout 2 if possible. Worth mentioning.
 
toront - own the interplay pack. still finishing one, then will play 2 then tactics . fnv is on the way curtesy of ebay . need a better comp for that though. in hindsight ''debate'' was a bad choice of wording

what i've learned is to not start a thread or coment on FO3 on here ,even in the specified board. too much bs, im over it. sincere thanks to the posts on topic though. my last post on the topic.
 
Canon has a direct bearing on the integrity of a work, though, which, to me, has a direct bearing on how the work is enjoyed. Rose-colored nostalgia shades aside, Fallout was hurting in the detail consistency department from the word go, but it makes a difference that for the first couple of outings they were at least trying to keep the team on the same page, or at least reading from the same book. It's not unreasonable to expect consistency from a work or a world. People were nitpicking over discrepancies between Don Quixote part 1 and Don Quixote part 2 at least 350 years before spergy nerds had even been invented.
 
Yamu said:
On top of that, almost all of those quotes demonstrate a definite level of ambivalence in their praise, and one has but to employ a modicum of reading comprehension to find an entire trove of it. They cherry-pick good things to say about it. They make allowances and avoid head-on commentaries ("I think we can all nitpick for what it is," "Making games is hard"). And they repeatedly state that they might have done things differently. No, that's not a round condemnation by any means; what it does resemble is the mealy-mouthed praise you might give a nephew's mediocre middle school play.

One, maybe two of the original devs did publicly embrace the direction Bethesda took the license in. Most of the others answered with what essentially amounted to "Fun, markedly Bethesda-style game" a sentiment that, unsurprisingly, is mirrored by perhaps the majority of the regular posters to this site. Why is this still an issue?

You noticed that too huh?

Its almost like they were saying those things just to give their respect to Bethesda and not try to ruin their direction in the game, but they were holding back what they truly thought.

When you heard them say those things and looked at them I just got the feeling that there was more to it, like they were saying those things as a cover of what they "truly" thought about the game.

Once they got away from all the cameras and Bethesda directors and developers they probably all told eachother what they truly thought of the game.

Donnellon1960 said:
Congratulations, you've not only succeeded in doing nothing, you've also managed to make a complete ass of yourself. Give yourself a good pat on the back.

Remind me why I should give a fuck about the opinion of the original game devs, please. I'd really like to know just why their opinions matter more than my views upon this game. Just because they made the original games (which I admit I've never played {go ahead and berate me, NMA}), doesn't mean I have to care about what they think. Their views are no more substantial than mine or anyone else's. And really, one of the game devs said that Fallout 3's attention to detail was "amazing". I could name hundreds of examples of what's wrong with such a statement, and that really just sort of sullies his opinion outright, only adding to more of why I don't give a crap.

You're not as smart as you think you are, kid. Try to make sure you know what you're talking about before talking about it.

You should "give a fuck" because its substantial to remember that without these guys, you wouldn't have your beloved fucking fallout three, or even New Vegas. I would like you to know that New Vegas was only made be a select few of the original members. An off the original team, they only worked as creative directors or lead technology, none of them had an actual hand in creating individual characters and buildings etc., and you can obviously tell that New Vegas was highly modeled after Fallout 3, but that can be blamed on Bethesda I guess.

Paying your respects to these guys is almost like giving respect to your elders. Without your parents, or even grandparents, there would be no YOU. And in a sense, without these guys, there would be no Fallout 3.

So if you can't acknowledge that, what the fuck are you doing even posting here?

Crni Vuk said:
I guess a few people expected secretly the original developers would blaze in like knights on horses attacking the game.

But what ever we think about F3, this kind of idea is simply wishful thinking as its not only unrealistic but also unprofessional.

Exactly. For example, lets say for example someone remakes a movie that someone else did years ago. It would be highly unprofessional for the old director to show up at the screening with his old film crew and start kicking shit around and screaming at the new developers. They would go in there. Sit there quietly, and when asked by the media "what did you think", give an determinedly average answer, or a "it was a great movie" answer to be professional.

Then, when they all got in the limo on the ride home, when there was no media around or camera anymore, they would all cuss out the film and say how bad it was, and how they felt like getting up and leaving half way through.

Now we can't be for sure, but I am guessing this is what happened with the original Fallout devs going to see the Fallout 3 teasers.
 
Yamu said:
Canon has a direct bearing on the integrity of a work, though, which, to me, has a direct bearing on how the work is enjoyed. Rose-colored nostalgia shades aside, Fallout was hurting in the detail consistency department from the word go, but it makes a difference that for the first couple of outings they were at least trying to keep the team on the same page, or at least reading from the same book. It's not unreasonable to expect consistency from a work or a world. People were nitpicking over discrepancies between Don Quixote part 1 and Don Quixote part 2 at least 350 years before spergy nerds had even been invented.

Spergy nerds have existed since people have dedicated themselves to nitpicking details in shit that generally doesn't matter. Arguing over what's 'canon' is fucking retaded anyway, since the only people who have a real vote in the matter is the people who own the IP, and even then, nerds will still sperg about it because they don't like the owner (which in Fallout's case is fairly well warranted), and it's all moot because you're arguing about the fine points of something completely fucking fictional.

It will only be relevant in either A) a game made by who owns it, in which case you nerds have zero control over it most likely, or B) something made by a third party for the owners (like Obsidian and New Vegas) so your sperging might help, but then again, it might not. And it may remain limited by what the owners like. Or C), something completely off to the side with no actual support/allowance by the owners, so you spergy nerds get to do whatever you like in your mod or PnP campaigns or fan movies/series.
 
Dukeanumberone said:
MOAR QUOTZ


-----"there were a lot of suprises , SOME of them pleasant"
-----" I think it fits with oblivion in their product line... I don't think FO 1/2 fit with their product line well"
-----"FEV was supposed to be localized to CA, I would have done something completely different."

(...)
---ohh noes damning evidence, wait wuht?, not damning of F3?


RAAWRRRRRR , I CALL HAXORS, LIES , LYES, EVERYONE MUST HATE FALLOUT 3!!!!!!!!!!
If you stopped acting like an idiot for a second a learned what "reading between lines" means, your life would be much easier. Since you obviously don't know, statements like "lot of suprises , SOME of them pleasant" and "I would have done something completely different" are polite ways of saying "it sucks balls". Those quotes you posted actually contradict your point and show how much they hated F3 without actually saying it. Congratulations on epic fail.


TorontRayne said:
Everything is canon. Why? Because the people who own the rights say so.

I have no idea where you people got this ridiculous notion. Let me direct you to wiktionary:
canon (noun):
1. A generally accepted principle.
2. A group of literary works that are generally accepted as representing a field.

I don't understand the whole canon debate though. It's not up for debate. Doesn't matter what any motherfucker says. You can deny it until you turn blue in the face, it's still canon, no matter how shitty it is.

So yeah, discussing canon makes a lot of sense, because it's not what owner of IP says it is, but what majority accepts.
If I bought copyrights of Lord of the Rings and wrote story that would completely contradict previous works and state that elves were actually genetically enginereed pets created by eight-legged aliens, would that be canon? Hell no. Owning IP doesn't mean shit. F3 contradicts so much established F1/2 canon it's "alternate universe" at best, poorly written fan fiction at worst.

Wintermind said:
Canon is a load of bullshit anyway, and is just something for a bunch of spergy nerds to argue over.
I could never understand idiots who frequently post on forums related to comic books/video games/whatever and yet think that they can use word 'nerd' as an insult. What are you then? Cool frat boy? How exactly discussing one aspect of fandom is worse than others? Please, enlighten me.

BigBoss said:
Paying your respects to these guys is almost like giving respect to your elders. Without your parents, or even grandparents, there would be no YOU. And in a sense, without these guys, there would be no Fallout 3.
What kind of moronic, ultra-conservative line of thinking is that? Respect is something you have to earn, it's not birthright. Should kids abused by their parents give them respect too? And most importantly, what the hell does it have to do with canon?

Wintermind said:
Spergy nerds have existed since people have dedicated themselves to nitpicking details in shit that generally doesn't matter.
Ah, yes. And talking all day about various other aspects of video game does matter. You fail at logic so hard, there should be some kind of award for you.

Arguing over what's 'canon' is fucking retaded anyway, since the only people who have a real vote in the matter is the people who own the IP
Says you. Show me which credible source actually defines canon this way or kindly SFTU.

it's all moot because you're arguing about the fine points of something completely fucking fictional.
And yet you are posting on forum devoted entirely to video game series. Retard or hypocrite? Pick your poison.

For me F3 isn't canon at all because:
1. It was created by completely different group of people.
2. It contradicts way too big portion of previously established canon. This isn't comic book universe, such huge retcons are unacceptable.
So like I said, at best it's kind of "alternate universe" thingy. F1&2 is canon, Fallout Bible is Word of Dante (I know most treats it like Word of God, but it's just statements recreated from memory by few staff members and not everyone/most involved people), FT and everything else are alternate universe.
 
Axolotl, let's put it this way. Every future game from here on will use the canon that Bethesda and Obsidian has established. You can deny it's existence if you like, but they will use it for all their games from here on out. Quoting Wiktionary is retarded fyi. I'm not a mindless Bethesda drone asshole. If you don't intend to play their games, then it might not matter, but for those of us who intend to try them out, the canon is set. Do I like that Fallout 3 fucked up the canon like it has? No. But I can't deny it's existence(It's pretty lame to do that btw. It exists.), and I'm happy we got a decent game in New Vegas. Breaking out the definition is fucking pointless. If you go off of that, the hordes of Bethesda fans have already proclaimed the canon of F3 to be correct. Thanks for proving my point...

True Fallout fans are in the minority here. You are blind if you cannot see it. New Vegas isn't canon now? Fucking ass backward. Have you even played it? Every fucking word all of you has said has been repeated a hundred times or more. Wonder why hardly any prominent members, aside from Yamu (who is too nice for his own good ;)) even bother to discus this with you guys? I wonder why I say it's pointless? I've heard the "owning the IP doesn't mean shit", I've heard the "F3 contradicts established lore", I've even heard "At best it's fan fiction"...none of the shit you are saying is new. In fact, I wonder if you think you are being clever by even saying it? WOW! Axolotl knows his shit. I stand corrected. No.. not really.

Actually, it's so often repeated it hurts my eyes to read, because I tend to agree, but it doesn't matter what we think. We lost the war. The dumbass fans who never played the originals won. They determine canon because they outnumber us 100 to 1. Add up all the old school Fallout fans from here and Duck and Cover, then compare that to all the hardcore Bethesda fans over at their forums. We lose. We've had prominent members leave this site because they were so pissed about it. It's the truth. Even some of the most die hard of Fallout fans admit it's the case, although some stubborn blokes still cling to the cause. Admirable.

Honestly how can you deny the canon of New Vegas? Even many of the oldies admit it was pretty good. I noticed you didn't mention it, so I'm curious...I see you are a bit belligerent about this, and I understand where you are coming from, but maybe you should accept that not everyone needs to agree with you? Also, don't refer to me as you people. You don't fucking know me asshole, you've been here five minutes, so don't act like you know where I stand on this subject. I'll be damned if some new guy will come in and act like I'm a fucking Bethesda fan, or quote me acting like I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

I'm sick of hearing people deny the truth slapping them in the face. Deny it's canon all you want, even if it is a tragedy of monumental proportions. Tell yourself, "It's some alternate universe, it's not true, NO I WON't BELIEVE IT!" while you cling to the corpse that was Fallout's lore. It's been raped to death by Interplay's fuck ups, Bethesda's bullshit, and only slightly repaired by Obsidian. What can you do? Get pissed off about it I guess. Keep your fan canon all you want. Whatever makes you feel better. :lol:
 
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