It also gets tiring when they go full "ohh you are insulting me", which is why I personally love arguing on the Codex, as no one pulls shit like that on you (not that we need to, "Fallout 4 is a shit RPG" is universal truth both here and in there, and thankfully so).
Whenever they ran out of rebuttals, they will resort to insults. At that point, I think it's best to just end the "discussion" there. Still though, the funniest will always be the whole "50 more/less hours deal". I can never wrap my head around how that is fully valid as a point of argument.
Whenever they ran out of rebuttals, they will resort to insults. At that point, I think it's best to just end the "discussion" there. Still though, the funniest will always be the whole "50 more/less hours deal". I can never wrap my head around how that is fully valid as a point of argument.
Some people are more mature than me, I'm the first to admit that, so I can't stand when you say "okay, good bye" and others go "OH YOU THINK YOU ARE TOO GOOD FOR ME? I TOTALLY DESTROYED YOUR ARGUMENTS", and the bait is successful.
leddit, YouTube. You know, places that just need to have dem "like" and "dislike" buttons because it is easier to dislike your comment instead of arguing against it.
It also gets tiring when they go full "ohh you are insulting me", which is why I personally love arguing on the Codex, as no one pulls shit like that on you (not that we need to, "Fallout 4 is a shit RPG" is universal truth both here and in there, and thankfully so).
I mean i avoid youtube comment to be honest anyway so I would't really no. I mean I don't think I would waste my time arguing with them sorts of people. I perfer to actuall talk about something intresting about fallout nwo fallout 4 is shit etc get boring after awhile
Some people are more mature than me, I'm the first to admit that, so I can't stand when you say "okay, good bye" and others go "OH YOU THINK YOU ARE TOO GOOD FOR ME? I TOTALLY DESTROYED YOUR ARGUMENTS", and the bait is successful.
For me, I simply block em and mute their responses (on Youtube at least). I don't bother with Reddit (though I surprisingly see up-votes for people touting New Vegas as superior to 4 on r/Fallout these days).
I don't need to hear retarded 'arguments' only capable of repeating strawman arguments and insults without any value added to the 'discussion'. Especially not on Youtube/Reddit comment chains.
EDIT: Seems that those circle-jerkers are really far down the list of comments from where I'm looking. There is one 4 fanboy troll that MisterCaption addressed and summed up nicely as an attention seeking troll.
For me, I simply block em and mute their responses (on Youtube at least). I don't bother with Reddit (though I surprisingly see up-votes for people touting New Vegas as superior to 4 on r/Fallout these days).
I don't need to hear retarded 'arguments' only capable of repeating strawman arguments and insults without any value added to the 'discussion'. Especially not on Youtube/Reddit comment chains.
I try not to bother with people like that, but then I remember that it's been six years since New Vegas was released, and I've basically exhausted the game so I have nothing to talk about Fallout-wise...
I've yet to play Fallout 2, but since I'm doing a chronological run through hundreds of renowned RPGs, it will be a while before I get there.
EDIT: Seems that those circle-jerkers are really far down the list of comments from where I'm looking. There is one 4 fanboy troll that MisterCaption addressed and summed up nicely as an attention seeking troll.
My favorite comment was the dude who said "Fallout 1 and 2 aren't good games", I mean, how do you possibly argue with a person like that? The more I think about it, the less purpose I see in discussions about Fallout. FO4 fans are retards, Bethesda just doesn't give a shit, so why bother arguing? What's worse, a lot of users upset at Fallout 4 will pre-order the next game anyway. At least I can say "I played 20 minutes of the game because it was a birthday gift, then I got a refund". True to my word, I find Fallout 4 almost literally unplayable.
The problem are not the people that don't like F1 and F2. The problem are the people that think Fallout 3 and even Fallout 4 is more Fallout than F1 and F2 with the SOLE argument, it's in 3D! And you can now walk away while talking! AND you can shoot in first person, while talking too! ... Of which some might even work at Bethesda ... but I guess Todd and his people are really just interested in selling stuff, nothing more nothing less.
I mean seriously, we are talking about people that more or less gave "To much to read, lol!" as reason why they didn't remastered Morrowind. And Hines (I think?) almost bragged about how he skips every dialog ...
And those people, are also the 'new' RPG fans out there. That's what they want. And they want to feel good about it. So when you tell them Fallout 4 is not an RPG, or barely recognizable as RPG, they will think you're a lunatic.
Actuallly, pretty much any thread containing the original Fallouts (and NV) and the Bethesda made ones at the same time usually ended up in a massacer over on the Steam forums. It's actually quite hillarious to see the Bethesda defending knights throwing insults and wrong statements out, just to prove...what exactly? Even worse, they made threads to purley rant about how "bad" Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas are on the respective games discussion forum. And that obviously attrackted Behmoths like moths are attracted to light, and soon, some of these threads never really ended. When you thought they finally gave up, one of them Bethemoths showed up again and thought it would be a good idea to start the entire, meaningless discussion from the beginning.
Those were just my encounters with mindless Bethemoths.
And those people, are also the 'new' RPG fans out there. That's what they want. And they want to feel good about it. So when you tell them Fallout 4 is not an RPG, or barely recognizable as RPG, they will think you're a lunatic.
I would patch it so your computer grows a fist and then punches you in the dick every time you start to go "HURF DURF SHOULDA BEEN OBSIDIAN" or "HURF DURF ANYTHING WITH COMPREHENSIBLE AND FUNCTIONAL MECHANICS IS A BAD RPG" or "HURF DURF I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WRITING WITH ANY SUBTLETY AT ALL AND THEN SAY IT'S BAD FOR NOT HAVING SUBTLETY".
I would patch Fallout 4 so it becomes a robot that travels back in time to erase No Mutants Allowed from existence. The cancer is inoperable now. The damage will never be undone. We cannot improve the series if we cannot get rid of the thing that literally and not figuratively makes the fandom not capable of seeing improvement. And we cannot get rid of it. All is lost.
Best part: this guy called me an autist in a different conversation. "No offense intended", of course.
What triggered the user into his rant: a comment some user made on what he would change about Fallout 4, as seen below:
- Return the old Skills/perks system with traits making a comeback
- remove the voiced protaganist and the dialouge wheel.
- make the player come from the wasteland not from a vault.
- include weapons for all playstyles ala fallout new vegas
- make the vaults intresting and fun and not just dungeons
- little to no dungeons in general
- better factions
- better writing
- perks that arent just numerical increases
- allowing people to be non lethal
- kill-able companions
- little to no essential characters
- no more stupid lore retcons
Apparently, our friend thinks the opposite of the above changes were definite improvements Fallout 4 did over the previous games. What's worse, I got into a huge ass argument with him repeating time after time "New Vegas tells but doesn't show, FO4 shows without the need to tell, and the Institute makes perfect sense". Shame on me.
Once again:
I didn't hate New Vegas. I liked New Vegas. It was the best Fallout game until Fallout 4 was released.
I want the next Fallout game, made by Obsidian or by anyone else, to learn from what Fallout 4 did right. Just like New Vegas learned from what Fallout 3 did right.
I want the next Fallout game, made by Obsidian or by anyone else, to learn from what Fallout 4 did right. Just like New Vegas learned from what Fallout 3 did right.
Perfectly reasonable. I would want Obsidian to learn from what Fallout 4 did right, too. Too bad it mostly boils down to "power armor felt pretty good, I guess".
Of course NV didn't really learn anything from what Fallout 3 did right, it just took what Fallout 3 did and made it actually good in the first place.
I called out their bullshit, but they can only resort to "LOL YOU INSULTED ME, LOL" instead of addressing the very few points I gave. I see no need to repeat other's points, so I did the dirty work instead.
Never thought that i will see a meme of Ginobili in a fallout forum.
On topic, i've seen people saying that NV map feels empty.
I disagree with that: No matter where you are, you always find something. Mister Caption already showed that in a video. Granted, you have to walk more to get there, but there is always something to see or discover.
Here's a recent argument I had with a Bethesda Apologist. Enjoy or whatever.
Lewd Ness8 hours ago I'd honestly take a good, well written, and well throughout narrative than an immersion breaking environment.
Metallica90145 hours ago Why not read a book? I think it's just a matter of opinion, and personally (besides a few npc's backstories) didn't think FoNV was written SO MUCH BETTER than Fo3 as people seem to say. I was also way more immersed in Fo3 compared to New Vegas. Lewd Ness5 hours ago (edited) +Metallica9014 "Why not read a book?"
Not a fan of books. Video Games can handle great writing and narrative much better at times. Great writing or narratives aren't just exclusively for books you know.
"I think it's just a matter of opinion, and personally (besides a few npc's backstories) didn't think FoNV was written SO MUCH BETTER than Fo3 as people seem to say."
But you see the thing is, Fallout 3's writing is utter garbage. Fallout New Vegas actually had great writting with great world-building.
"I was also way more immersed in Fo3 compared to New Vegas."
Give me examples of how New Vegas's writing is THAT much better... I do know of some cringy Fo3 Dialog, but most of it wasn't.
"Fallout 3's writing is utter garbage"
How so? It told the stories that it wanted to tell and characters, their backgrounds, and personalities were clearly defined. As far a Fo3 being more immersing... Fallout NV was, for the most part, a plain and boring desert. Fallout 3 had a world worth exploring and had a many independent settlements just like New Vegas. The whole "Metro Tunnel" argument isn't valid here since that really wasn't a major part of the world. I do recognize the "copy and pasted" ruined building, but in all honesty the areas in D.C. were all unique and told, either implicitly or explicitly, an interesting story. Fallout 3 felt more like a post-apocalyptic environment (I understand that they SHOULD have rebuilt more by now, but...) and was imo more immersive. I think it is important to point out that I really like New Vegas and thought that Caesar's legion was one of the coolest factions ever. I like Obsidian as a developer (Kotor 2 being one of my favorite games), but I just prefer Fo3. I don't think comparing 3/nv to the originals is fair and while I prefer 3, that doesn't mean I think the New Vegas is bad.
Lewd Ness2 hours ago
"Give me examples of how New Vegas's writing is THAT much better..."
-Boone. A broken man who had to shoot his own wife carrying their unborn child because he didn't want her to experience the treachery of the Legion's slavery.
-Veronica. A member of the Brotherhood of steel who wants to stop her family, the Brotherhood, from dying if it keeps following it's isolationist ways. The saddest part about this is that in the end she can't do anything to change it and they'll eventually die out.
-Caesar. The idealistic leader of the Legion who thinks the Legion's philosophy and ideology is the best and long-term solution for the wasteland.
-Mr. House. A brilliant man who wants to restore the old world with Vegas being the first step. He's practically the best solution for the Mojave with his technological advancements.
-The Legion. A large slaver empire composed of 87 conquered tribes that follows the ideology of Caesar himself and hopes to become the wasteland's best option for rebuilding.
-NCR. A shell of their former selves, a faction that spread themselves way too thin and corruption runs deep with them.
-Joshua Graham. The former Legate of the Legion who spends his time helping the Dead Horses in Zion and wants to stay away from being the Legate he was while serving Caesar. However he slowly becomes the merciless Legate he was, it's clearly shown when he encounters Sal-Upon-Wounds at the end with the player. -Elijah. The extremely motivated former Elder of the BOS who went so far and long to Sierra Madre and hopes of using it's technology to get revenge on the NCR for Helios One. It's clear he has trouble letting go and moving on, which is the theme of the DLC actually.
And there's so much more.
"I do know of some cringy Fo3 Dialog, but most of it wasn't."
Examples?
"Fallout 3's writing is utter garbage" How so? It told the stories that it wanted to tell and characters, their backgrounds, and personalities were clearly defined."
Alright, let me tackle the most common ones.
-James is possibly one of the worst written fathers in gaming. The game literally gives me no actual good reason to care for the guy. All he does in the game is just say a bible quote and dies to force in an emotional moment which fails so badly.
-The main story is just a shameful and terrible mashup of the first two Fallout games stories.
-Eden. How you pretty much convince him to just kill himself and blow up and entire base with such ease is mind boggling idiotic.
-Little Lamplight. How the fuck does it even work? How does Little Lamplight manage to survive and last this long for 200 YEARS?
-Megaton. Just Megaton.
-Why Lucas Simms would trust a stranger to disarm an active nuclear bomb, even if you insult him and such, is just shit writing.
-The fact that somebody like Vault Tec has access to a very important and secret thing like FEV is just plain retarded. -What exactly is Eden plan again? He uses the modified FEV with the purifier and makes the water harmful to humans and be able to kill them? Really? That's it? -Why does Lyons spend the 20 years him and Brotherhood has spent in the Capital Wasteland, mainly killing mutants? All he's doing is wasting his soldier's lives and doing what I like to call the "Zapp Branigan" strategy, where he sends troops after troops to their deaths to kill Super Mutants in D.C. Why doesn't he send his troops to the outskirts of D.C? Where settlements like Rivet CIty or Megaton are? Doesn't he care about the wastelanders safety?
-And finally the famous "What do they eat?" question.
"Fallout 3 felt more like a post-apocalyptic environment (I understand that they SHOULD have rebuilt more by now, but...) and was imo more immersive."
Ah, yes. The main point many fans bring as to why the environment is better than New Vegas.
The environment doesn't even make any sense. The game takes place 200 years after the war and yet it looks like it took place 20 years after the war. This may seem unimportant, but it leads to many of the world building problems the game has.
It's been 200 years and people get their food from supermarkets instead of actually growing their own food. It's been 200 years and a majority of the Capital Wasteland hasn't been rebuilt. The exceptions being Big Town, Rivet City, and the Citadel.
It's been 200 years and people are somehow still living in the Capital Wasteland, a place where it's overruned by Super Mutants capturing humans to turn into Super Mutants, raiders, and irradiated water which is the biggest problem wastelanders have in the Capital Wasteland.
Almost nothing in this world of Fallout 3 makes any sense.
"I don't think comparing 3/nv to the originals is fair and while I prefer 3, that doesn't mean I think the New Vegas is bad."
Actually comparing Fallout New Vegas and Fallout 3 to the originals is actually FAIR. Fallout 1 and to an extent 2 pretty much set up how Fallout should be and how to expand on them. New Vegas did an excellent job of expanding on Fallout 1 and 2 and respecting the material. Fallout 3 and 4 however, don't.
Metallica90146 minutes agoHighlighted reply
@Lewd Ness, James is not poorly written at all... His character doesn't have a lot of time to be flushed out, but in the time that you know him you realize the good that he has done and what he has done to protect you. He led the project purity project, he's your father..., he's Liam Neeson, ect. He's a good person and I think a lot of people cared when he died.
The main story is very simple and is a mashup of the first two games. You are correct.
John Henry Eden is a computer. Bethesda followed a typical sci-fi trope and you can kill him with a logical fallacy, but otherwise you could access his terminal as it is shown that Autumn had the ability to "end" him if he felt the need to.
Little Lamplight is a little weird, but it is explained how it works. It is assumed that they reproduce and the whole "mungo" thing didn't come on until a bit later. They have excess amounts of cave moss and water sources. The moss and other plant life could serve as food, although a bit far fetched. Water seems to be uncontaminated ground water. It probably wouldn't work, but that is the assumed justification.
Megaton makes a bit more sense than LL. The reasoning to build a town around a bomb is due to a large majority of the settlers being "Children of Atom." They are weird as hell, but I would assume that Simms (and whoever else settled there first) thought it to be better to settle with these crazies than try without them. It would seem that the original settlers tried to gain entry to Vault 101, but according to the wiki they stayed within the megaton crater to avoid massive dust storms that were a problem at the time. The "town" then became a large trade stop for settlers and wastelanders heading east to D.C.
With Lucas Simms I typically talk to him with my vault suit still on. He might assume that you have some technical knowledge from being a vault dweller. He could just be naive, but it seems that no one has really ever offered to try and disarm it. He might also believe that attempting to disarm it will not accidentally detonate it, seeing that Burke HAS to give you a pulse charge to detonate it this may be true.
Vault 87 has a terminal that talks about the virus. The vault was run by military scientists from the start and was supposed to perform Evolutionary Experimentation for potential "Fixes" after a nuclear war. Eden is wanting to do the same thing that President Richardson wanted to do in Fallout 2 (It is stated that Eden is a personality generated by a ZAX computer. He believe that non-pure people (people who have been exposed to radiation) are a threat to the future and that using the FEV virus will wipe them out.
As for a Lyon's goes... He was originally going along with the "Collect tech" plan, but realizing the threat that the super mutants were to both his organization and the locals that they needed to be stopped. There can also be assumptions made that they have knowledge of FEV being near D.C., because of super mutants, and that is something they REALLY need to stop. The story goes further to explain the schism of the east coast BoS and why Lyons does what he does. Brotherhood knights, paladins, ect are going to explore the ruins of DC eventually, not much different when they are going through killing mutants. Also the super mutants seem to be concentrated in D.C. itself, and he doesn't seem to know that vault 87 is the cause.
The "What do they eat" seems like a nitpicking complain to me but here we go... Megaton has a large population of giant ants to the northeast that they kill and eat as well as mole rats. We see this outside of the gate, as well as a large amount of any meat being traded at Moira's store. Megaton is also one of the most frequented trade hubs outside of D.C. so it is likely they have food brought to them in exchange for scavenged materials. Rivet City has a lot of trade just like Megaton, but you can assume they get a good amount of meat from the nearby mirelurks that not only live IN the ship, but all around it. You also see Doctor Li and her subordinates cultivating vegetables in their lab. Paradise falls and Tenpenny tower probably hunt as well as attack smaller settlements for food. The Citadel's BoS scavenge as well as most likely hunt Mirelurk in the nearby Sewers. The Citadel is also near water where other irradiated monsters could dwell and be hunted. Seeing the Moira has a food purifier, it could be assume the BoS would as well. ect. ect.
As far as the lack of growth, that could be due to the presence of the Enclave as well as large amount of Mutants infesting D.C. and the west part of the map. There also could have been different circumstances in D.C. seeing that it was the United State's capital. It's more likely it got hit my several times more nukes than the Mojave or most of California (Although i'll admit the L.A. "boneyard" would have been hit hard, but it was overrun by raiders in fallout 1 (I think it was fallout 1, might have been 2.) It's also mentioned that several Forts, military stations, and power plants were hit by the bombs leading to massive amounts of irradiation spilling out in meltdown like scenarios (not like a nuclear bomb, but similar to Chernobyl.)
