What's Trump up to now?

[Ilosar]

Still, the point is, Trump is going to nations that hold Democratic values and is attempting to make connections with them. Right now, besides the smitten South Korea (who have pretty much always loved us since the Korean War for whatever reason) and Puerto Rico we barely have any friends in the world. Most everyone has turned their back on us because of the Bush and Obama administrations. We need to reforge our old alliances. This doesn't have a damn thing to do with "lmao Trump's trying to expand his brand." Trump doesn't care about making more money, he already said he wasn't going to take a Presidential salary ( http://www.snopes.com/trump-refuse-salary/ ) If he truly cared about money that much why would he skip out on making over 200,000 bucks a year?

Well, 200k a year is a drop in the bucket for Trump admitedly.

As to the rest, the US doesn't care one second if you're a democracy. They make deals with Saudi Arabia as readily as with Great Britain. They threw themselves into China's loving arms long ago and have no desire (nor, at this point, interest) in letting up, Trump's dumb tweet notwhitstanding. Military-backed regime in Egypt? Keep sendin' in the guns, lads. Pakistan is as much of a ''democracy'' as modern day Russia is, filled with electoral controversies and dubious political maneuvering. And I'm of course not getting into the country's history of supporting right-wing dictatorships across the world, albeit that has died down after the Cold War ended.

It's also why I have a bit of a hard time taking the Cuba/Castro hate seriously. Yeah, they're not angels by any means, and in the end the nation is very probably better off without them. But let's not act as if the White House's beef with the regime was that they don't hold enough general elections.

I'm also not sure Trump really has interest in starting to anger China for Taiwan's sake. The place isn't that important strategically, it's more a symbol than anything. And as I said, I think trying to be Putin's buddy is a mistake as he needs the US more than they need him.

 

[Vergil]

As to the rest, the US doesn't care one second if you're a democracy. They make deals with Saudi Arabia as readily as with Great Britain. They threw themselves into China's loving arms long ago and have no desire (nor, at this point, interest) in letting up, Trump's dumb tweet notwhitstanding. Military-backed regime in Egypt? Keep sendin' in the guns, lads. Pakistan is as much of a ''democracy'' as modern day Russia is, filled with electoral controversies and dubious political maneuvering.

It's almost like the United States has had a bunch of shitty politicians in the pockets of wealthy donors and didn't have the interests on the people in mind and that's the very reason Trump (an outsider to all this bullshit) got elected. He's talked about how shitty Saudi Arabia is, he's condemned all the sending of weapons to countries, he's condemned all the regime changes. You're acting like the United States is a sentient entity and that as soon as the new President comes in they get assimilated into the US's Borg hivemind. A lot of his support came from talkling out AGAINST all this shit you're bringing up so you're just making yourself and your side look worse.
I think you've missed the entire point of this election bud.

It's also why I have a bit of a hard time taking the Cuba/Castro hate seriously. Yeah, they're not angels by any means, and in the end the nation is very probably better off without them. But let's not act as if the White House's beef with the regime was that they don't hold enough general elections.

lol so we can't talk shit about Castro now because the United States isn't picture perfect? No one here is acting like the United States has been a saint or talking about any of those things in the Middle East you mentioned earlier in a positive light.

 

[TorontoReign]

lol so we can't talk shit about Castro now because the United States isn't picture perfect? No one here is acting like the United States has been a saint or talking about any of those things in the Middle East you mentioned earlier in a positive light.

Who the fuck said that? People can see both sides when they think hard.

 

[Vergil]

Who the fuck said that?

It's also why I have a bit of a hard time taking the Cuba/Castro hate seriously.

It's hard to take Cuba/Castro hate from us seriously because the country we reside in has done things none of us have said we support and we have even supported a candidate whose spoken against all those things apparently.

People can see both sides when they think hard.

Right, and you're defending the side that has mass executions for people who speak bad about the Castro regime lol.
Sometimes trying to be the ebin intellectual and looking at both sides isn't pertinent when one side has gulags.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Taiwan is a strange phenomenon to me. A 'democratic' dictatorship that took it's power from a bunch of power hungry warlords turned actual democracy? Something's wrong here.

Also, it seems the US only has a problem with dictatorships unless they're taking the American line. Fulgencio Batista was basically a dictator but because he was pro-American he was left alone.

 

[TorontoReign]

It's hard to take Cuba/Castro hate from us seriously because the country we reside in has done things none of us have said we support apparently.

Right, and you're defending the side that has mass executions for people who speak bad about the Castro regime lol.

The hate for him is deserved but over exaggerated, like the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and Saddam Hussein being Hitler. Not wishing to derail the thread any further than that as far as Castro is concerned so I will bow out on that. Might need a Castro thread. Or a new World War 3 one.

 

[Vergil]

The hate for him is deserved but over exaggerated,

Right.
He's merely spoken about wanting to nuke America, executed hundreds of thousands of people, jailed homosexuals, jailed people who disagreed with him, help cause the Cuban Missile Crisis and make his nuclear wet drream come true, turned Cuba into a communist dictatorship hellhole and generally done all the things shitty dictators do.
We should really cut this guy some slack.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Right.
He's merely spoken about wanting to nuke America, executed hundreds of thousands of people, jailed homosexuals, jailed people who disagreed with him, help cause the Cuban Missile Crisis and make his nuclear wet drream come true, turned Cuba into a communist dictatorship hellhole and generally done all the things shitty dictators do.
We should really cut this guy some slack.

You realize these are the only two the US government actually care about? Take away those two and add pro-American and he'd be a brave hero fighting against the evil Russians and communist threat.

 

[Vergil]

You realize these are the only two the US government actually care about? Take away those two and add pro-American and he'd be a brave hero fighting against the evil Russians and communist threat.

What does that random comment have to do with the hate for him being over exaggerated (AKA what my post is actually responding to) exactly?
I get you'll defend communism till the day you die but try to actually be relevant in your commie wanking.

 

[zegh8578]

God, who put a coin in Vergil?

 

[Dr Fallout]

What does that random comment have to do with the hate for him being over exaggerated (AKA what my post is actually responding to) exactly?

That the hate is so... how do I put it... hypocritical from the governments view. They're the ones who support regimes like Saudi Arabia. America isn't much better by crime of association.

 

[Vergil]

God, who put a coin in Vergil?

Thanks for adding to the thread with replies to the discussion at hand instead of getting triggered by and crying at people you don't like.
Are you gonna have any actual arguments against mine this time or are you gonna throw a hissy fit, call me a fascist a couple of times and then storm out of the thread again?

That the hate is so... how do I put it... hypocritical from the governments view.

Am I or anyone else in this thread the American government during the cold war?

 

[Ragemage]

Well, 200k a year is a drop in the bucket for Trump admitedly.

Which is exactly why Toront's claim that he's going to these countries simply to get more business ventures is ludicrous. Trump doesn't need the money.

As to the rest, the US doesn't care one second if you're a democracy. They make deals with Saudi Arabia as readily as with Great Britain.

You mean the Clinton Foundation and Obama administration are willing to make deals with Saudi Arabia:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/clinto...rom-hillary-clintons-state-department/5498517

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...fered-115-billion-weapons-saudi-arabia-report

Trump is going to do the exact opposite (or at the very least he states he will) by trading with our actual allies rather than our enemies.

They threw themselves into China's loving arms long ago

Yes, and that's exactly what Trump is trying to fix. We shouldn't be associating with China like we're best friends. They are not a good country, they're a terrible country in fact. You seem to be acting like our country can't change. Although many higher-ups adore China because they can send labor there cheap (Hello Child Labor!) the American people do not support them. There are boycotts and petitions all over to stop buying products "Made in China", there have been for years. (like this one: http://www.buycott.com/campaign/582/boycott-made-in-china ) Trump is simply listening to what the people want. From Nixon to Obama we've been cuddly with China, letting them invade our markets with cheap products because of their awful labor conditions and far less than minimum wage pay. Not anymore.

Military-backed regime in Egypt? Keep sendin' in the guns, lads.

Once again, that was Obama and the DNC. Trump is Republican. You keep acting like they're the same thing.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/04/11/usar-a11.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/01/world/middleeast/obama-lifts-arms-freeze-against-egypt.html

Trump wants to put a stop to us selling to the Middle East willy-nilly.

Pakistan is as much of a ''democracy'' as modern day Russia is, filled with electoral controversies and dubious political maneuvering.

Which is exactly why I didn't bring up Pakistan, because I don't know anything about Pakistan. The same applies here. I won't debate someone on something I know nothing about.

I'm also not sure Trump really has interest in starting to anger China for Taiwan's sake. The place isn't that important strategically, it's more a symbol than anything. And as I said, I think trying to be Putin's buddy is a mistake as he needs the US more than they need him.

Putin still controls Russia, which is nearly a global super power once again. We've been practically at war with Russia for the last 60 years, even though our troops have never clashed. I think it's time to finally bury the hatchet. See, this is something I don't understand about Liberals. They praise and praise Obama for attempting to make friends with Castro, a Communist leader, but then they get all up in a tizzy and start foaming at the mouth when Trump tries to make friends with Putin?

 

[TorontoReign]

Right.
He's merely spoken about wanting to nuke America, executed hundreds of thousands of people, jailed homosexuals, jailed people who disagreed with him, help cause the Cuban Missile Crisis, turned Cuba into a communist dictatorship hellhole and worse.
We should really cut this guy some slack.

So he said a lot of shit that people like Trump have said and done shit we let China do yet suck their cocks? Lets just bomb the hell out of them. Gotta use those nukes folks. How about we jail Americans without trial and ship them off to Cuba where we can start up some old fashioned torture? We have made Cuba worse all these years with our failed embargo, a lot like our failed drug war, and our failed war on terror. American is great at waging war on it's civilians and getting them to love them for it.

It is only okay to jail people when it is due stuff you don't like, like selling a plant to a consenting adult. It is much more humane to jail someone for a plant than a religion or ideology. Why can't people see these things? People choose their poison.

Maybe we should stop thinking of the USA as a MORALLY SUPERIOR EMPIRE and all other nations not on board as EVIL COMMUNIST HITLERS. It might help to see both sides of the story. Sometimes there is no moral right when it comes to nation states and their conflicts.

@Ragemage Nothing is ever as simple as that when it comes to foreign policy. You can do more than one thing at a time, like mentioning strengthening ties between your nations since relations have declined and pitching a new idea for a hotel with a giant sign with your name on it with complimentary fake university degree and faux steak.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Yeah the economic shittery which often drives groups to shitty acts might explain the worst parts of Cuba. The sanctions don't help.

 

[TorontoReign]

Same with Iran. Wonder why they are running from the dollar? Lets try to overthrow their government and find out.

 

[Vergil]

So he said a lot of shit that people like Trump have said and done

Baseless conjecture. How the fuck do you know what Trump would have said and done oh wait you don't.

shit we let China do yet suck their cocks?

[CITATION NEEDED]
Also who the fuck is "we"? I'm not the US Government and I'm not a fan of the current government and what it's done which is why I supported a political outsider.

Lets just bomb the hell out of them. Gotta use those nukes folks.

No one ever said this quit putting words in people's mouths you disingenuous retard.

How about we jail Americans without trial and ship them off to Cuba where we can start up some old fashioned torture?

We don't do this and no one has suggested we do this please refer to my previous response above.

We have made Cuba worse all these years with our failed embargo,

Right, Cuba's problems are aaaaaaalllll those big bad evil American's fault. If it wasn't for that sanction Cuba would be a sprawling metropolis, it has nothing to do with communism being a shitty inefficient system. The amount of mental gymnastics you do to blame everything on America is hilarious and I sincerely hope you don't live here and if you do I invite you do get the fuck out if you think America is so terrible.
Also, weren't you just complaining that America has/is making deals with brutal regimes but are now complaining that America is putting sanctions on and not doing deals with Cuba? Which is it?

a lot like our failed drug war, and our failed war on terror. American is great at waging war on it's civilians and getting them to love them for it.

This is a completely random tangent about a lot of irrelevant shit no one here have voiced any support for nor was anyone talking about please keep your autism in check and stay on task.

It is only okay to jail people when it is due stuff you don't like,

No one ever said this quit putting words in people's mouths you disingenuous retard.

like selling a plant to a consenting adult. It is much more humane to jail someone for a plant than a religion or ideology. Why can't people see these things? People choose their poison.

Wow really activated my almonds.
You're just trying to be as off topic as possible aren't you? No one has said anything about your "DUDE WEED LMAO" or any of the rest of this awkward rant so why are you bringing any of this irrelevant shit up?

Maybe we should stop thinking of the USA as a MORALLY SUPERIOR EMPIRE and all other nations not on board as EVIL COMMUNIST HITLERS.

No one ever said this quit putting words in people's mouths you disingenuous retard.
I never throughout this WHOLE FUCKING DISCUSSION said anything about the United States being perfect or ANYTHING. All we've done is talk about the shit Castro has done and how bad his regime is and with your ever present bug up your ass you started randomly shitting all over America as if we can't be critical of Castro and America and clearly because we hate Castro we love everything America has ever done because that's totally not a retarded and childish way to think at all.

It might help to see both sides of the story. Sometimes there is no moral right when it comes to nation states and their conflicts.

Right, and sometimes it's pretty fucking clear that the one who executes people for disagreeing with the governmnt is the obviously worst one (NOT THAT ANYONE WAS FUCKING COMPARING ANYWAY)
Sorry I'm not being impartial and "seeing both sides" enough when talking about a regime that would jail me for liking men if only it hadn't already executed me for speaking out against the government.

 

[Ragemage]

@Ragemage Nothing is ever as simple as that when it comes to foreign policy. You can do more than one thing at a time, like mentioning strengthening ties between your nations since relations have declined and pitching a new idea for a hotel with a giant sign with your name on it with complimentary fake university degree and faux steak.

Exactly, so why were you acting like Trump is most likely only doing it for his own business ventures earlier? He could be going to both strengthen his business and also strengthen ties with countries where we've lost our "oomph" so to speak. But he certainly isn't just going for business ventures.

On that note, as it's already been established, why would he go to these countries only for business under the guise of strengthening relations when as @Ilosar said, 200,000 dollars is just a "drop in the bucket" for him? The actual evidence and Trump's actions point to him going there specifically for building up relations and trying to win our allies back, not to build more hotels. He could very well be doing both but the evidence doesn't support it and it sure as Hell doesn't support your original notion that he's only going for his "Trump" brands. Also:

fake university degree and faux steak

https://niceme.me/

http://www.bbb.org/council/news-eve...-york-and-council-of-better-business-bureaus/

And for the kicker, 2013 article from Time Business discussing how BBB itself admits that a business can have a good rating despite numerous complaints as long as they respond to the complaints. Businesses that respond to consumers directly and not through the BBB, can still get an F grade!

http://business.time.com/2013/03/19/why-the-better-business-bureau-should-give-itself-a-bad-grade/

And from Trump himself:

 

[Ilosar]

It's almost like the United States has had a bunch of shitty politicians in the pockets of wealthy donors and didn't have the interests on the people in mind and that's the very reason Trump (an outsider to all this bullshit) got elected. He's talked about how shitty Saudi Arabia is, he's condemned all the sending of weapons to countries, he's condemned all the regime changes. You're acting like the United States is a sentient entity and that as soon as the new President comes in they get assimilated into the US's Borg hivemind. A lot of his support came from talkling out AGAINST all this shit you're bringing up so you're just making yourself and your side look worse.
I think you've missed the entire point of this election bud.

lol so we can't talk shit about Castro now because the United States isn't picture perfect? No one here is acting like the United States has been a saint or talking about any of those things in the Middle East you mentioned earlier in a positive light.

He can condemn all he wants. I put a dollar down that he's not going to actually change much about it. If there's one area that actually doesn't change that much from Pres to Pres, it's foreign policy. Sure, there's always a lot of posturing about it (like how pro-peace Obama was, for instance, which was mostly bullshit) but in the end, nations have only interests, and that's sure as hell not going to change with Trump at the helm. He may whine about how mean the Chinese or Saudis are while getting a blowjob from Moscow and Islamabad, but in the end the US need the Saudi's presence/influence in the Middle East and their oil, and absolutely need China's economic partnership for their own to function (and vice-versa). Realpolitk will continue being the name of the game.

At best, he's going to stop more interventions from occuring, which would be commendable. But he's not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I'm not making a judgment, here. Foreign policy is a bitch, and the friends (or ''friends'') you make on a global stage aren't going to be the nicest people, or you quickly start running very short on friends since few countries are very nice anyways.

Talk shit about Castro if you want. I'm not your mom, I'm not telling you what to say. But I do believe many in the US have no problem with regimes that do much of the same Cuba did, because they're not commies.

 

[Vergil]

I put a dollar down that he's not going to actually change much about it.

Well you guys have been wrong about pretty much everything so far so I guess we'll just have to wait and see