When/ How Did MZ Imply Aliens Started the Great War?

X12 said:
also i just found out that the FEV used in Vault 87 was an INFERIOR version, not the same, perfected version from Mariposa.

Look, if I create a story, with a given premise:
1. There should be dwarves
2. They are all green
3. And they wear hats

and you promise to follow canon, but then go
1. They genetically modified to grow long
2. Tanned, were now dark purple
3. Quit wearing hats after well elaborated upon democratic decision

you didn't really follow lore. You can argue that you technically did, because you carefully explained every change made, but it would still have been a dishonest move.
 
zegh8578 said:
X12 said:
also i just found out that the FEV used in Vault 87 was an INFERIOR version, not the same, perfected version from Mariposa.

Look, if I create a story, with a given premise:
1. There should be dwarves
2. They are all green
3. And they wear hats

and you promise to follow canon, but then go
1. They genetically modified to grow long
2. Tanned, were now dark purple
3. Quit wearing hats after well elaborated upon democratic decision

you didn't really follow lore. You can argue that you technically did, because you carefully explained every change made, but it would still have been a dishonest move.

They didnt modify anything, they just added. These are DIFFERENT super mutants. For one, the 87 FEV is used by releasing it as a gas in a small room, rather than being dipped in VATs. This might also explain the different results from the superior, fully developed Mariposa version.

Whats wrong with adding new things?
 
X12 said:
zegh8578 said:
X12 said:
also i just found out that the FEV used in Vault 87 was an INFERIOR version, not the same, perfected version from Mariposa.

Look, if I create a story, with a given premise:
1. There should be dwarves
2. They are all green
3. And they wear hats

and you promise to follow canon, but then go
1. They genetically modified to grow long
2. Tanned, were now dark purple
3. Quit wearing hats after well elaborated upon democratic decision

you didn't really follow lore. You can argue that you technically did, because you carefully explained every change made, but it would still have been a dishonest move.

They didnt modify anything, they just added. These are DIFFERENT super mutants. For one, the 87 FEV is used by releasing it as a gas in a small room, rather than being dipped in VATs. This might also explain the different results from the superior, fully developed Mariposa version.

Whats wrong with adding new things?

Unwritten rule nr1 of NMA.. If it's not the original it is something bad :P

On a side not i don't care much for the new SM's either.
 
And as for the Enclave armor, well, say what you will about the CW Enclave armor but it looks a hell of a lot easier to make and maintain then that bulky CR Enclave armor. Its very possible that they used the new armor design because its easier to mass produce..
 
And as for the Enclave armor, well, say what you will about the CW Enclave armor but it looks a hell of a lot easier to make and maintain then that bulky CR Enclave armor. Its very possible that they used the new armor design because its easier to mass produce..

So stupid...

They just used that one, because some artist decided to create some NEW design, not use old one. End of story.

Not because some canon explanation.

Same thing for power armour... they just wanted to have their betha-style armor for their knights...

Just bullshit.
 
Languorous_Maiar said:
And as for the Enclave armor, well, say what you will about the CW Enclave armor but it looks a hell of a lot easier to make and maintain then that bulky CR Enclave armor. Its very possible that they used the new armor design because its easier to mass produce..

So stupid...

They just used that one, because some artist decided to create some NEW design, not use old one. End of story.

Not because some canon explanation.

Same thing for power armour... they just wanted to have their betha-style armor for their knights...

Just bullshit.

Wrong. the T-45d was in more numerous numbers on the east coast, with only one T-51b there. Its not bullshit. Its logic. Take off the nostalgia goggles. Sorry if im being a devil's advocate, i just feel compelled to.
 
SM of fo3 is bad not because cannon or something but it's role.
One of main theme of SM is different race. they are not a monster. they are just human being like other races.
but at fo3 they just use SM as a yellow orc.
it's just disgrace for other Fallout games since they ruined main theme.

for power armor, enclave power armor of fo3 is copy of FOT's power armor. and beth's T-51 design is really sucks.
 
Wrong. the T-45d was in more numerous numbers on the east coast, with only one T-51b there. Its not bullshit. Its logic. Take off the nostalgia goggles. Sorry if im being a devil's advocate, i just feel compelled to.
And where are all those t-51b used by BoS before they went to east?
And no, it's not possible that all of them are broken. :)

Take off your fanboyism for Fo3, and start using brain instead.
 
woo1108 said:
SM of fo3 is bad not because cannon or something but it's role.
One of main theme of SM is different race. they are not a monster. they are just human being like other races.
but at fo3 they just use SM as a yellow orc.
it's just disgrace for other Fallout games since they ruined main theme.

for power armor, enclave power armor of fo3 is copy of FOT's power armor. and beth's T-51 design is really sucks.

I do agree i wish the factions in F3 got more backstory. I wanted to learn more about the scourge and what events exactly led to Lyons "going native".

And i see no difference between the Fallout 3 T-51b and the Fallout T-51b.....unless you are talking about the T-45d.
Languorous_Maiar said:
Wrong. the T-45d was in more numerous numbers on the east coast, with only one T-51b there. Its not bullshit. Its logic. Take off the nostalgia goggles. Sorry if im being a devil's advocate, i just feel compelled to.
And where are all those t-51b used by BoS before they went to east?
And no, it's not possible that all of them are broken. :)

Take off your fanboyism for Fo3, and start using brain instead.

Ok, I am not a fan boy. Just because i enjoy the game, doesnt mean im a fan boy. I am not saying Fallout 3 "IZ TEH GRETEST GAEM EVA!!!1" Also, similar to my enclave armor explanation, maybe its easier to mantain, since the parts would be more common.

Think of it this way: at least they didnt call the new armor the T-51b. Now THAT woudl be a slap in the face. Also, just because YOU think its ugly, doesnt mean it is.
 
nah.. they add some cloth to power armor which makes meh...

for power armor there are some other problem.
since you can get armor from dead you can get tons of power armor that makes power armor worthless.

except for fo3, power armor is valuable and rare armor even for Wasteland.
 
The thing that makes the FEV explanation for the Super Mutants in FO3 bad, si not because they said the strand was different, but because they literally injected the explanation very clumsily. While the original FEV experiments were carried upon in a secret Military base under the scrutiny of the USA goverment and no one ever knew about it during the last days of the pre war world, the FEV in Fallout 3 was apparently under the care of Vault Tec, in a regular vault. That doesn't make any sense, why would they trust their super secret experiment to a Shelter building company? Why were the experiments carried upon AFTER the war? The Mariposa scientists were executed by what would become the BOS and their experiments were left unfinished and abandoned, The Master found them by accident (by falling on a vat of the green goo) and after udergoing a lengthy metamorphosis he decided to start his own experiments with the FEV and that's were the green Super Mutants came from and the reason for them existing. What does Fallout 3 tell us? uhmmm well, they created the mutants because....... uhmmm well they kill people alright? And they have been able to mantain their numbers for 200 despite being retarded and sterile with no organization at all because...... uhmmmm, bah just shoot the yellow bastards.

And well if Fallout 3 factions were betetr written there would be no problem (for the most part) but that's the thing, they are not well written, they are barely tought out.
 
Also you should know Vault-Tec was NOT simply "a shelter building company". That was explained in Fallout 2. They had VERY close ties with the Enclave, aka the US Government. So it would make LOTS of sense they would get a prototype to use. The Vaults were NEVER meant to save anyone.
 
"The Vaults were NEVER meant to save anyone"

That Phrase came from the Penny Arcade comic, not from any fallout game.


Also there is a difference between having contracts to build them shelters to carry social experiments on, and entrusting them with working on a virus meant to be kept a complete secret from everyone on a regular Vault, at least make it into a Scientific facility buried deep within a Mountain, not a Vault with a huge exposed door with a bright yellow number on it that everyone can find. Also there is no reason for them to carry out the experiments after the war started. Or any way for the dumb yellow mutants to continue living 200 years after the war despite having no organization whatsoever.

Edit: Also there is a big difference between Social Experiments, and turning your entire population into Yellow Monsters.

And furthermore, the Mutants aparently like children because they never tought to go after the camp of kids right next to their base in the 200 years both of them coexisted in the same geographical location.
 
plus unlike army of unity plays important role, SM of fo3 plays nothing but a monster. at some point you can show bos to where the vault is and that's over. nothing left. what a shame.
 
woo1108 said:
plus unlike army of unity place important role, SM of fo3 plays nothing but a monster. at some point you can show bos to where the vault is and that's over. nothing left. what a shame.

agreed. i like fallout 3, but i dont love it. i enjoy playing it to pass the time. I am not a "fan", i just play it.
 
you don't have to dislike game because it's bad.
or you can love game dispite of game is bad.
not a problem.
 
woo1108 said:
you don't have to dislike game because it's bad.
or you can love game dispite of game is bad.
not a problem.

Its not bad nor is it good because those things are subjective. i enjoy it. thats it. some people think fallout 1 and 2 suck....their loss (shrugs)
 
X12 said:
Its not bad nor is it good because those things are subjective. i enjoy it. thats it. some people think fallout 1 and 2 suck....their loss (shrugs)

It is bad at certain things, and good at other ones, but it's certainly good or bad in some things (it's bad at story logic, for example, and logic is something objective). There are some other things that are, as you said, inherently subjective, like the looks.
Of course, liking the game depends on what you care the most, not on a list of thing at which it's good and things at which it's bad. I do find it fun, too, but more as a sandbox. FO1, FO2, and FO:NV, I like to check the different outcomes you can get for every mission and the different endings, and I play them more for the story (and find great replay value on them because of this).
I was going to answer on the mutants subject, because that's the part that shocks me the most, alongside with how the BoS was handled, but everything I had to say was already said by others.
 
woo1108 said:
plus unlike army of unity plays important role, SM of fo3 plays nothing but a monster. at some point you can show bos to where the vault is and that's over. nothing left. what a shame.
This really annoys me, because the Super Mutants are built up as like this big threat, and the Brotherhood of Steel has been fighting them for 20 years, and then you go to the vault where they came from, and you... leave... and they're never mentioned again. did the Enclave wipe them out? Is that meant to be like a thing, them wiping out the mutants effortlessly right away, to show how much more advanced they are than the Brotherhood? I don't recall any hints of that. Maybe there's something in Broken Steel that mentions it? I just remember the ending slides being all "and then the Lone Wanderer saved the world and everybody was happy forever." Uh, what about the mutants though?
 
2house2fly said:
This really annoys me, because the Super Mutants are built up as like this big threat, and the Brotherhood of Steel has been fighting them for 20 years, and then you go to the vault where they came from, and you... leave... and they're never mentioned again. did the Enclave wipe them out? Is that meant to be like a thing, them wiping out the mutants effortlessly right away, to show how much more advanced they are than the Brotherhood? I don't recall any hints of that. Maybe there's something in Broken Steel that mentions it? I just remember the ending slides being all "and then the Lone Wanderer saved the world and everybody was happy forever." Uh, what about the mutants though?

The fact they keep roaming happily with the same dialogs after the ending, in Broken Steel, rapidly refutes the idea the Enclave wiped them.
 
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