Why can't Bethesda fans see the forest for the trees?

Mr Fish said:
Nah, what I'm surprised by is that it is Skyrim. (Then again I got a huge bias against it considering I loathe its very existence.)
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Well... I'm suprised people still loving Morrowind more than this anomaly. At least it can be explained like skyrim console crowd finally moved to PC.
 
Deeves said:
Who are these 'fans' you speak of? It looks like to me that everyone but the most hardcore have dropped this dog turd already.


http://steamcharts.com/cmp/377160,72850#1y

It's over ... no one is even sticking around to see if their Season Pass impulse buy was worth it ... This will stick in every gamer's mind as as the tedious / sub-par / average one. If not now then soon with enough distance from the glow of the mass hype hysteria, just like Phantom Menace.
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The fans are the console players, and console players do not use Steam so they don't show in those graphs...
I think that is why Bethesda is aiming at consoles and not PC. PC players move on much faster from bad games I guess (maybe because they have more and cheaper choice of games, I don't know).
 
It's fine to be a Bethesda fan, but I agree with you guys that you arent a real Fallout fan until you've played 1,2 and New Vegas. Its just not right to call yourself a proper Fallout fan if you have just played 3 and/or 4, because those people are just fans of Bethesda games, not Fallout games.
The problem at the moment is that all of Bethesda's fan base are fanatically loyal to Bethesda, so any game they make will be god worshipped, so if Bethesda makes a new game about a series made by another game company, the fans will only play the Bethesda game and ignore the others, which is bad.
I have heard people complaining about Fallout 4 getting good ratings; don't worry, its just because Bethesda pays the crooked gaming magazines. Organisations like IGN are rotten to the core.
 
CerberusGate said:
I think it also has something to do with hype. Most of the modern Fallout fanbase, who are sadly the majority, are into spectacle, quick gratification and having random unintentional adventures (like 3) rather than a slow but well-crafted experience (like 1, 2 and/or New Vegas)
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New Vegas has a ton of random adventures. And you can get in the action quick. On the 20+min mark for Fallout 4, you just got out of Vault 111. Where in New Vegas, you might already be on your way to Primm.

New Vegas opens up much faster. It doesn't take time for exposition. You wake, some doctor tells you got shot in the head and whatever and lets make a character and have some fun.

Fallout 4 always stops you from enjoying the game. The devs keep screaming "Look this is right before the war, this is fun right?" No it's not. I want to play the fucking game. Bethesda hates giving their players freedom. That's why they make many characters invincible. If you kill the wrong character in New Vegas, you only fail the quest. Fuck you can kill both the ambassador and Caesar and the war still happens.

Bethesda actually tried to tell a good story, and failed miserably at it.

Doomsdayprepper said:
It's fine to be a Bethesda fan, but I agree with you guys that you arent a real Fallout fan until you've played 1,2 and New Vegas. Its just not right to call yourself a proper Fallout fan if you have just played 3 and/or 4, because those people are just fans of Bethesda games, not Fallout games.
The problem at the moment is that all of Bethesda's fan base are fanatically loyal to Bethesda, so any game they make will be god worshipped, so if Bethesda makes a new game about a series made by another game company, the fans will only play the Bethesda game and ignore the others, which is bad.
I have heard people complaining about Fallout 4 getting good ratings; don't worry, its just because Bethesda pays the crooked gaming magazines. Organisations like IGN are rotten to the core.
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The fanaticism of the Beth fan base is cancerous. I feel like gouging my eyes out everytime they refer to Todd Howard as "Godd Howard".
 
Cethlenn said:
New Vegas has a ton of random adventures. And you can get in the action quick. On the 20+min mark for Fallout 4, you just got out of Vault 111. Where in New Vegas, you might already be on your way to Primm.

New Vegas opens up much faster. It doesn't take time for exposition. You wake, some doctor tells you got shot in the head and whatever and lets make a character and have some fun.

Fallout 4 always stops you from enjoying the game. The devs keep screaming "Look this is right before the war, this is fun right?" No it's not. I want to play the fucking game. Bethesda hates giving their players freedom. That's why they make many characters invincible. If you kill the wrong character in New Vegas, you only fail the quest. Fuck you can kill both the ambassador and Caesar and the war still happens.

Bethesda actually tried to tell a good story, and failed miserably at it.
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So you're agreeing and disagreeing with me?

This trend of Beth to want to make 'cinematic' stories is what troubles me about Bethesda games. Also, what I meant by slow in New Vegas is that the narrative pacing has a decent build-up rather than Beth's free-roam madness that ruins progression. You can still explore with New Vegas but most players will usually follow the progression set up by Obsidian that tells the story of New Vegas better.

EDIT: Earth elaborates on this far better than me here.
 
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Cethlenn said:
New Vegas opens up much faster. It doesn't take time for exposition. You wake, some doctor tells you got shot in the head and whatever and lets make a character and have some fun.
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As some guy called William Shakesman once said: "Brevity is the soul of wit."

It really is amazing how slow and boring the introductions are in Fallout 3 and Fallout 4. Fallout, Fallout 2 and Fallout New Vegas all give you a quick intro, a decent little set-up, then BAM, get to questing. By the time you've gotten out of your stupid vaults in both Fallout 3 and 4, chances are you've already done a number of Shady Sands quests in Fallout.

It should also be noted that Bethesda's story places a sense of urgency on a setting not suited to urgency. GOTTA FIND DAD and GOTTA FIND SON are things most people wouldn't take lightly, but the worlds are so distracting a lot of the time it's very easy to forget about the main quests. Same goes for Oblivion and Skyrim. What's that? Dragon destroying the world? Yeah hang on a sec I'm just helping this guy find his missing scroll in a cave somewhere.

While Fallout gave you a timer, because the quest given to you actually is urgent, both Fallout 2 and Fallout New Vegas are designed with the possibility of playing a character who could give less of a shit about the main quest. New Vegas gives you a vague idea of revenge against the guy who shot you, but honestly, you'd probably just want to go to Vegas anyway because you can see it for miles and it looks more interesting than rocks. The worlds are designed for moseying around, the stories complimenting that ability to roleplay.
 
The Beth fanboys on steam forums are the worst. Its funny how they hate other games like Witcher 3 and DA:I, calling them 'glorified offline MMOs', 'repetitive', as if FO4 was any different.

If you tell them FO4 runs poorly on your PC, they will immediately assume you have a wooden PC, nevermind that it runs well on Witcher 3, a game that looks 1000 times better.
 
That's the heart of the matter: A lack of maturity. Many of these fans will take criticism as an attack on them.
 
I am one of the fans that Bethesda has brought in, and I'm thoroughly disappointed at Fallout 4. I even expected it to be worse than Skyrim when it came to writing and depth, and even Bethesda managed to hit a new low. The game is literally a low budget piece of shit, any decent game studio would have crapped this out as a DLC. I'm grudgingly ok with the setting and some of the story elements, but its so poorly executed they good things don't matter. It's literally the rice cake of games, it looks like a game but its completely tasteless and bland once you get into it. I think Bethesda has ticked off too many people for Fallout 5 to be the thing that does them in. TES 6 will likely do that and I'm already too turned off to buy TES 6 when it does come out. I'd expect TES 6 sales to not do as well as FO4 and maybe match Skyrim, but it won't be the same. I have issues with New Vegas, but 4 seems like it was produced by drunk people, things make less sense and what reasons are given are just crap.
 
idk i feel like it's asking what happened to juggalos--fallout and dipping tobacco seems to be what they've moved onto.
 
I think the best way we can describe Fallout is like this;
Fallout 3 is like an average cigarette, it's bad for your health, but you don't care anyway, you may as well enjoy the finer things in life. It may give you cancer and you'll have health problems, but you do it anyway cause it relaxes you. There are things you would change and not everything that goes into an average cigarette you agree with. But it fills its purpose and you like doing it. And if you want to quit, well, you could just get help or try and find an alternative.

New Vegas is like fine weed. It hits your brain and you're just in another World. It has its health benefits and it puts you out of Town. You and your buddies get together, maybe put on some Mr Bungle and get high together. And everytime you go back it feels fresh and new.

Fallout 4 is like cheap shitty cigarettes, it'll kill you quicker (if you don't decide your life is worthless enough and you end it beforehand). It tastes like shit, doesn't do anything and you wonder why you buy it.

This is from a non-smoker by the way, I just wanted to find the strangest way to describe the Nu-Fallout games (I don't think I did a bad job tbh).
 
@Millim
As a smoker that doesn't really make any sense to me.

An average cigarette is bad for my health and I 'do' care that it is killing me off. The problem is that the addiction is stronger than my willpower is and so I can't quit it. It is most certainly not "the finer things of life", it is a dumb fucking stupid decision that can be impossible for some people to get out of. The only reason I smoke so that "it relaxes me" is that if I don't smoke I get jittery, twitchy. I feel strong discomfort at everything. I can't concentrate. I can't enjoy anything. I lose appetite while at the same time craving something to munch on just so that I can fixate on 'something' for my body to distract itself from the shivering. I don't like doing it, I'm trapped in a dumb decision that is continuously deteriorating my body.

And a shitty cigarette is still just a cigarette. It might kill me 0.01% quicker than a usual one but it is so miniscule that it isn't even worth considering. It doesn't necessarily have to taste like shit. Bad cigarettes with poor filtration and worse ingredients can be tastier than "healthy" cigarettes and vice versa. And it does do something; It satisfies the addiction and keeps you hooked on the drug.

(As to weed, I've never smoked it so I can't really comment on that part. I've had cocaine though.)

Your analogy doesn't make any sense what so ever to me. Perhaps stick to analogies of things you have some experience with in the future.
 
Yeah, maybe I should just stick to analogies I know and stuff.
I took a risk and it didn't pay off.
 
I was more implying that I can take more risks than Bethesda.
Bethesda didn't take a risk, they looked at what was popular and just put it in their game.

The only risk they took was alienating RPG fans.
 
Just my 2 cents, they do take risks with Fallout 4, and it kind of pay off. Despite of people beginning to 'waking up', there's just way too many people defending their pieces of shit. Like I've said in other threads, it's obvious FO4's target audience are people who obviously never played video games their whole life/enough video games and/or previous entry of the series.

The GREATEST risk they took, however, is the move they are making for their own modding community, and while they are beginning to take some positive step to take care of the problem (linking Beth.net account with Steam to prevent mod theft), promising Skyrim modding for current gen console is, for me, still a such a risky move because we aren't yet sure if the modding shenanigans can be resolved properly.
 
Black Angel said:
Just my 2 cents, they do take risks with Fallout 4, and it kind of pay off. Despite of people beginning to 'waking up', there's just way too many people defending their pieces of shit. Like I've said in other threads, it's obvious FO4's target audience are people who obviously never played video games their whole life/enough video games and/or previous entry of the series.

The GREATEST risk they took, however, is the move they are making for their own modding community, and while they are beginning to take some positive step to take care of the problem (linking Beth.net account with Steam to prevent mod theft), promising Skyrim modding for current gen console is, for me, still a such a risky move because we aren't yet sure if the modding shenanigans can be resolved properly.
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I'm ok with them trying to do new things. Like the voiced protagonist. I didn't mind that they did this, but it was executed so poorly its laughable. The Radiant quests are a nuisance. They think they can make a main faction based around radiant quests. There are basically no RPG elements and the map is basically empty or filled with immortal ghouls.

I do like the companion quests, but they're poorly put in. They got them but missed the point. I'm not glad they learned from Obsidian. They learned the wrong things. The things they tried to replicate, the multiple factions and companion quests. But they were done by people who were drunk. Bethesda learned the wrong things from Obsidian. Obsidian basically sold a game with 1/3 of the content missing, but with decent RPG elements and an OK story. Even under rushed development this is better than 4...hell 4 was rushed. I doubt they spent more than 7 months on this thing, let alone 7 years.

What Bethesda absorbed from Obsidian is they think they can make a game with multiple factions 1/3 of the content missing and the game will be acclaimed! But all the way missing the point of what made New Vegas a decent game. I think the world was very empty and boring, but the story was ok even though I'm not invested in the lore of the older games. I have issues with how the Vaults in 3, 4 and NV were handled (excluding 81). i wanted to see fully functional Vaults that were building a future, at least the DC ones. And I wanted to see Vault 19 residents still finding things to feud over in the post war world. And do I need to say that 4 is a terrible game?
 
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