Why can't Bethesda fans see the forest for the trees?

As some guy called William Shakesman once said: "Brevity is the soul of wit."

Though Shakespeare did write that, it's like attributing any of Gollum's lines to Tolkien. He didn't actually say it.

The line is spoken by Polonius, who you'll remember is the stupidest character in Hamlet by a mile. Add the fact that both Hamlet and Shakespeare weren't known for being particularly brief and it becomes quite clear that he didn't actually believe the line himself.

Does this take away from the actual line? Probably.
Does it have anything to do with the discussion? I don't know, it's 3 AM and I'm about to go to bed.

I just like being pedantic.
 
I'm ok with them trying to do new things. Like the voiced protagonist. I didn't mind that they did this, but it was executed so poorly its laughable.
I agree that the voiced protagonist is absolutely awful. Voiced protagonists have no place in this series or in Elder Scrolls for that matter. They should never even have experimented with it. It is pretty much obviously a bad idea for a game like Fallout.

Dragon Age Origins vs. Dragon Age 2 shows this. The switch to a voiced protagonist is limiting in both dialogue and role playing. It's no longer your character anymore. You can no longer read your lines with your own unique inflections and emphasis. If you have a voiced protagonist, you're going to alienate every fan who doesn't want to play a character that sounds like that voice actor/actress.

It's not an accident that the deepest RPG's lack voiced protagonists. It's got less to do with budget and more to do with immersion, quality of dialogue choices and consequences for those choices. People are falsely equating voice acting with quality.

Fallout 4 is the first time I'm playing Fallout as Jack from Mass Effect. I don't want to, but that's who the voice actress is, and that's who I'm forced to play as. Mass Effect was good and it had a voiced protagonist, but there is no comparison between that game and a more dialogue-based RPG like Fallout or Planescape: Torment. Bethesda should have just let Mass Effect be Mass Effect and let Fallout be Fallout.

But I definitely agree with you overall that Fallout 4 is like Bethesda learned the wrong lesson from Obsidian's New Vegas. There's multiple factions, but they're all awful and shallow cartoonish caricatures of what a serious RPG faction would look like. And there are companions like New Vegas, but they're all far worse compared to characters like Cass and Veronica and the others.
 
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I'm ok with them trying to do new things. Like the voiced protagonist. I didn't mind that they did this, but it was executed so poorly its laughable.
Eh, no way voiced protagonist can work in a full-fledged RPG. They might work in the likes of Mass Effect and the Witcher series, but in a game where we were supposed to have full control of our characters and there creation, if it gets voiced it would felt so out of place. Irwin John Finster explained this well.

Besides, I stumbled upon one of the 'positive' review for Fallout 4, stating how "You're not a mute anymore". Just shows how much the fans of Fallout 4 just don't understand RPGs or even like it. That dumbass.
 
Actually @TomJ that is a good point. Bethesda didn't learn from Obsidian, they instead tried to replicate the things people like what Obsidian did in NV for Fallout 4 and failed miserably. This mainly is because Bethesda didn't take a good look and try to learn why people like the things Obsidian did in NV. It kinda reminds me of whenever a movie ripoffs a good movie. Those ripoffs fail to capture what made that movie good just like how Bethesda failed to capture what made people love NV.
 
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Though Shakespeare did write that, it's like attributing any of Gollum's lines to Tolkien. He didn't actually say it.

The line is spoken by Polonius, who you'll remember is the stupidest character in Hamlet by a mile. Add the fact that both Hamlet and Shakespeare weren't known for being particularly brief and it becomes quite clear that he didn't actually believe the line himself.

Does this take away from the actual line? Probably.
Does it have anything to do with the discussion? I don't know, it's 3 AM and I'm about to go to bed.

I just like being pedantic.

Damn I was hoping no one would call me out on that line. It's actually a Mr Plinkett of RedLetterMedia fame quote. Hence the "Shakesman" rather than "Shakespeare".

It's a good point though. Reminds me of the arrogant socialite Malvolio in Twelfth Night saying the "Some men are born great, others have greatness thrust upon them" line. It's funny how plenty of lines of Shakespeare can, and are, used out of context.
 
Damn I was hoping no one would call me out on that line. It's actually a Mr Plinkett of RedLetterMedia fame quote. Hence the "Shakesman" rather than "Shakespeare".
Actually now that I think about it RedLetterMedia's Star Wars Ep.1 review can also apply to Fallout 4. The best part of that review was to describe the characters from the original Star Wars and the prequels. We should do something like that in regards to the originals Fallouts and NV and Bethesda's Fallouts. Its amazing how poorly written the characters in Fallout 4 are compared to the originals and NV.
 
Actually now that I think about it RedLetterMedia's Star Wars Ep.1 review can also apply to Fallout 4. The best part of that review was to describe the characters from the original Star Wars and the prequels. We should do something like that in regards to the originals Fallouts and NV and Bethesda's Fallouts. Its amazing how poorly written the characters in Fallout 4 are compared to the originals and NV.

That sounds like fun actually. Yeah, describe characters without saying what they look like, what their profession is, or what their role in the story is. Yeah we should do a comparison between main characters from New Vegas and Fallout 3/4 or something.

Either as a thread or in one of the podcasts maybe?
 
That sounds like fun actually. Yeah, describe characters without saying what they look like, what their profession is, or what their role in the story is. Yeah, we should do a comparison between main characters from New Vegas and Fallout 3/4 or something.

Either as a thread or in one of the podcasts maybe?

Giving it a shot; I picked my favourite companions from New Vegas and FO4, respectively.

This companion is often sarcastic and cynical, but deep down they're just old and tired. Despite their often passive-aggressive comments they seem to genuinely like the player's company, often showing disappointment when left alone and eagerness when asked to travel.

This companion has a terrible habit of lying and is sometimes playful to a fault. They're fond of witticisms and verbal jabs, but behind their facade of aloofness, they're simply lonely and afraid to get close to anyone.

Both of them call the player "boss".
 
I honestly don't think I can describe most of the characters in Fallout 4 as most of them are just stereotypes. I mean, Bethesda had 7 years to write characters and they just squander it while Obsidian had only 18 months but I can easily describe even minor characters in NV.
 
I honestly don't think I can describe most of the characters in Fallout 4 as most of them are just stereotypes. I mean, Bethesda had 7 years to write characters and they just squander it while Obsidian had only 18 months but I can easily describe even minor characters in NV.

I think it's truly pitiful that they use the exact same "vengeful male whose wife was killed" character formula four(!) times throughout the game for Deacon, MacCready, the protagonist, and Old Longfellow.
 
I think it's truly pitiful that they use the exact same "vengeful male whose wife was killed" character formula four(!) times throughout the game for Deacon, MacCready, the protagonist, and Old Longfellow.

Well, let's take a look at them:

Piper, Nick, McCready, Deacon and Danse's backstories all revolve around a murdered loved one; Piper, McReady, Hancock, Codsworth and Cait's backstories revolve around family; Preston, Deacon, McReady and Cait revolve around betrayal while Strong, X6-88 and Dogmeat don't have backstories.

The only truly unique companion in terms of backstory is Curie and while I love her voice I still think she's a bit shallow.

I didn't even bother with Longfellow, but it's good to know I haven't missed much.
 
Giving it a shot; I picked my favourite companions from New Vegas and FO4, respectively.

This companion is often sarcastic and cynical, but deep down they're just old and tired. Despite their often passive-aggressive comments they seem to genuinely like the player's company, often showing disappointment when left alone and eagerness when asked to travel.

This companion has a terrible habit of lying and is sometimes playful to a fault. They're fond of witticisms and verbal jabs, but behind their facade of aloofness, they're simply lonely and afraid to get close to anyone.

Both of them call the player "boss".

This is a bit wasted on me as I haven't played Fallout 4 :freak:. Could tell the first one was Raul though.

I'll try and describe characters from Fallout New Vegas and Fallout 3.

This character is a psychopath. While their actions may have good intentions, at least from their perspective, the character shows throughout that they care little for human life, and less remorse for stepping on other people's freedoms. The character is intelligent, educated and though they have pretensions of caring about humanity as a whole it is unclear how much the character really cares about others, and there is every chance that they are doing the things they do for their own benefit. The character dislikes ignorance in others, but it is unclear whether they actually care about educating people. They do not seem interested in what happens to those around them after they die, only in their own personal achievements. The character is calculating and violent, though they come across fairly civil in conversation, as long as their demands are catered to. They also have a fairly dark sense of humour, which, though infrequent, does come up from time to time.

This character is a psychopath. Their actions very rarely match the polite and calm demeanour they carry. While they act like they care about things and people their actions only put others in danger and ultimately harm society as a whole. Seemingly intelligent, as they have scientific knowledge, the character's intelligence does not fit their common sense, suggesting some kind of mental disorder like psychopathy.

@RoboStang To be fair, the main questline of Fallout 4 is a straight up remake of Fallout 3's.
 
Its a game full of cliches and stereotypes written for the ultra casual audience.

And the various nonsensical accents make me feel like the developers don't care that it doesn't make sense.

God, reminds me of British people in Fallout 3.

Care to explain that Bethesda? No?
 
God, reminds me of British people in Fallout 3.

Care to explain that Bethesda? No?
They sail n shit.


@Makta
No reason for this @, I just saw you quote me in another thread and not really say anything to me so I figured I'd give you an annoying annotation too. :)
 
No reason for this @, I just saw you quote me in another thread and not really say anything to me so I figured I'd give you an annoying annotation too. :)

Which one? :|

Edit. Looks like my responce is gone in that topic >>

Edit 2: Or actually i blame NMA. Seems like my old post got taken into the next post aswell. Weird.
 
God, reminds me of British people in Fallout 3.

Care to explain that Bethesda? No?
Well I noticed someone complained about these accents on the Fallout Reddit and one of the responses was that it's ok to have a bunch of nonsensical accents because of Moriarty in Fallout 3. So they are using Bethesda's terrible writing as actual lore.

Which means that Fallout 5 will have more immortal Ghouls that live in fridges for 300 years but it will be acceptable because Fallout 4 had Kid in the Fridge.

And there will be a revelation that the entire Fallout Universe was created by Aliens or something because that's the sort of thing passes for good writing over at Bethesda.
 
Well I noticed someone complained about these accents on the Fallout Reddit and one of the responses was that it's ok to have a bunch of nonsensical accents because of Moriarty in Fallout 3. So they are using Bethesda's terrible writing as actual lore.

Which means that Fallout 5 will have more immortal Ghouls that live in fridges for 300 years but it will be acceptable because Fallout 4 had Kid in the Fridge.

And there will be a revelation that the entire Fallout Universe was created by Aliens or something because that's the sort of thing passes for good writing over at Bethesda.

I was under the impression that both Moriarity and Tenpenny were recent migrants.

I remember a Scottish guy in one of classic Fallouts (I think he was with the Blades) and he explains that he's just trying to keep his heritage alive, rather than actually being Scottish.
 
I was under the impression that both Moriarity and Tenpenny were recent migrants.

I remember a Scottish guy in one of classic Fallouts (I think he was with the Blades) and he explains that he's just trying to keep his heritage alive, rather than actually being Scottish.
Yea in the same reddit thread someone asked "Well how did they migrate from England to America after the apocalypse?" and the response was "Because Prydwen" so once again using Bethesda's "lore" to justify more Bethesda "lore." If we're going to go down that road than pretty much anything goes for Fallout - there will be Ancient Aliens, Kid in the Fridge, all sorts of new lazy and carefree "lore" that has nothing to do with Fallout or a cohesive universe.

Lou Tenant had a British accent, but that was one character (a super mutant). Fallout 4 is basically a melting pot of various accents as though people are freely traveling from Europe and Russia to America. It doesn't make sense.
 
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Which one? :|

Edit. Looks like my responce is gone in that topic >>

Edit 2: Or actually i blame NMA. Seems like my old post got taken into the next post aswell. Weird.
[Draft] saves can be quite annoying sometimes.
 
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