Why do people think Fallout 3 was actually good?

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by KingArthur, Apr 4, 2020.

  1. TomJ

    TomJ Still Mildly Glowing

    214
    Jul 12, 2015
    Bethesda games are a mile wide and an inch deep. Expecting anything approaching depth out of them is asking too much. They can't even make raiders more than drugged out pyros or Chicago mob rip offs. It wouldn't even be hard to have a few groups of non hostile raiders running protection rackets for food, but even that is too much.
     
  2. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007
    ...And unfortunately it's not due to incompetence. It's more likely due to market perception; tailoring the product to ideally suit their perceived customer. (Not an exact science, as seen with 76.)

    I once read an opinion of Superman, that observed that Superman's 'Clark Kent' identity was his low opinion of [weak & frail] Humanity; a downgrade to blend in. Well, I think that Bethesda's FO themed products are quite telling of their level of esteem (or lack therof) for the majority of the game-buying audience.
    (Low patience empowerment junkies, that hate to think—that being seen as a chore that they play games to escape.)

    The sad part is that they have been proved right more often than not. They made a ton of money on their games; people paid them for that crap, and enjoyed it. People did, and still do dish trash on the original [Fallout] games as outdated, limiting, and —fine for old people. Just like a kid disparaging sprouts in favor of candy corn.

    I twice spent a year on a dungeon-crawler mod that was very puzzle-centric, and not overly hack-slash. Yesterday I read a post by a player condemning them as no fun because it was not open hack & slash. :(

    Bethesda avoids anything but an ostensible challenge that can be perceived as an accomplishment by the player; never something that might actually give them pause. The closest thing I ever saw to that in one of their [recent] games was the optional musical escape puzzle in Tranquility Lane. How many players even know about it?
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2021
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  3. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    Eh to my mind there's nothing wrong with making a sanbox shooter with not much depth to it. Some players like it, that's not a condemnation of them, it's just there personal tastes.

    I'll be damned if I ever call it a Fallout game though.
    Link?, I kinda wanna see your game.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
  4. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007
  5. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
  6. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007


    *The thing to understand about this one, is that the original game does not have ladders, or elevations on the maps, and this mod features a several story tall central hall, within a tower that the player climbs to escape. My own room features a three floor map where each area can be seen from the others; (it's illusory, but it worked well).

    The UI of the game does not have a journal, does not have a quick access bar; these are mods... as are a few of the animated monsters.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
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  7. TomJ

    TomJ Still Mildly Glowing

    214
    Jul 12, 2015
    I personally think Bethesda's "success" comes from the YouTubers they have more or less bought off and get really great PR from whenever they release a game. I'd imagine at least a quarter of their sales come from that alone, probably closer to half. I know I fell victim to that type of BS in the past. The problem is that only works a few times and 76 was such a big screw up, that I think that a lot of people will be less interested when TES 6 comes out in 3-5 years from now. I know for sure I won't buy TES 6 till its at least half off. The question is will the hangover from 76 and the unacceptable time between games lead to enough of a dip in sales to make them think changing course on their development? Time will tell on that front.

    As for other games being interesting, I personally have played more 7 Days to Die than I have with Fallout 4. That game doesn't have a story and is far more fun and works better than 76 does. 76 is at best a mess that is fun with friends. 7 Days to Die is occasionally a mess and is fun with friends. But Bethesda will have to hit a really firm brick wall to think change is a good idea. Well change that isn't release a game with less content, more gimmicks, with a longer development time.
     
  8. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Fossil

    Apr 7, 2017
    The reason Bethesda games become huge successes was because starting with Oblivion Bethesda had an huge marketing budget due to the success of Morrowind (which is the only game that its success was entirely based on word of mouth and a lot of luck). Starting with Oblivon they pretty much started to promote the hell out of their games, and of course Todd Howard being a snake further pushed this. Hyping up his games to hell, making them seem way better than they truly are. I recalled Skyrim got TV promotion spots, meaning everyone and their grandma knew what the game was.

    This created a hype bandwagon that gave a ton of people FOMO (fear of missing out) because no wants to left out. Everybody wants to join the latest trend, and that was Bethesda games. And the reason they were well received was because no wanted to be that guy, the one that gives the game less than expected by the majority. The fanboys would hound that person. That's why Jim Sterling got his site doxxed when he dared to give Breath of the Wild a 7/10 and causing that game to, gasp, drop a point in its Metacritic score. The reverse can also happen, when a game gets piled on due to a bandwagon, which ironically is what happened with Fallout 76 (justifiably so mind you).

    This also why the negative reviews started to show up way later, when no one really didn't care for the games anymore. There's pretty much a bunch of negative reviews on Youtube for every Bethesda game since Oblivion.

    The funny thing with depth in their games is that Bethesda fans will say they have a ton of depth when people say Bethesda games are shallow. So, Bethesda purposely makes their games basic as fuck to try to appeal as many people as possible, and the fanboys have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find any depth when they are trying to counter-argue the correct criticism that the games are shallow. It's just too funny.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
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  9. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    Eh, I'll always like the Enclave more for their social satire value.

    It's also, and call me crazy:

    Maybe people liked Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Skyrim. Even Fallout 4 to an extent, silly playground as it may have been.
     
  10. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    To be fair, Morrowind, and to an extent, Daggerfall, are probably the few games from Bethesd that was actually good rather than being the latest over-hyped trendy game that they produced recently. The writing in Morrowind for the most part is not the Emil level stuff we got in their modern titles.
     
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  11. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Fossil

    Apr 7, 2017
    That's because both weren't made with the lowest common denominator in mind like their titles since Oblivion. Funny how both get looked upon more favorably than their most recent games.
     
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  12. TomJ

    TomJ Still Mildly Glowing

    214
    Jul 12, 2015
    One thing I can say from my own personal experience is that Fallout 3 and Oblivion were far better games than their direct sequels. Fallout 3 and Oblivion took a couple play throughs for me to realize how unsatisfying it was as a game because of how many missed opportunities for story telling their was. Skyrim on the other hand, was wearing thin on its second playthrough for me, which only took about a month. Fallout 4 bored me to death in under 20 hours. My personal thought on this is that Bethesda saw how well Fallout New Vegas was received despite being released half finished given its short development time and realized they could get away with doing the same thing. The thing that I find egregious on Bethesda's part is they usually take anywhere from 3 to 4 times as much time to make a game that is at most 1/3 of a finished game. Bethesda has no excuse when it comes to giving us a game that is at least as good as Fallout 3 or Oblivion, hell they could give us another Morrowind and it will still be critically acclaimed (for whatever that is worth). There are so many things they could do to optimize their games to appeal to the Call of Duty crowd and leave enough for someone like me. I for one don't mind how Fallout 4 handles from a game play perspective, it handles like a standard shooter and that's alright. My issue is that every quest more or less boils down to "go here, shoot the people, retrieve a person/desk fan and report back for 100 caps". There is so much more than can be done as for quest solutions and world building that frankly wouldn't take much work. Or at minimum do the 7 Days to Die thing where the quest locations are meant to be done a certain way for the sake of entertaining you.
     
  13. Gamesbasi

    Gamesbasi First time out of the vault

    14
    Jan 5, 2021
    Exactly.
     
  14. TheodoreRoosevelt

    TheodoreRoosevelt First time out of the vault

    31
    Nov 21, 2020
    Joe Cobb comes to mind in fallout new vegas. the guy could run goodsprings for food/supplies.

    also i think the reason why we don't see it is because "Raiders" are not really supposed to be smart enough to realize this on their own. This is why Joe Cobb requires an intelligence check of 6 in order to convince him to takeover goodsprings for food and what not. Raiders aren't exactly the smartest types of people you'll meet. Just look at the fiends for example. or the viper gunslingers or jackals. hell the khans as well made their fortune based off raiding ncr caravans even taking shots at civilians/kids as well before the ncr fucked them up. I agree there should be some group out there that wants something bigger than just raiding. but raiders again aren't exactly smart enough to realize there's something bigger to even go for that's why their called "Raiders"
     
  15. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Mojave Express Employee of the Month

    Mar 16, 2013
    This is also why the White Legs effectively have a bad ending no matter what. They're a tribal society that has made fruitless and endless raiding their inherent culture, and they're now dying out and desperately roving around because of it. You couldn't even call them animals because animals have better natural inclinations for longevity. They're not fit for the Wasteland they're in anymore, they produce nothing and have no basis of society, and thus are doomed to be a societal dead-end.
     
  16. TheodoreRoosevelt

    TheodoreRoosevelt First time out of the vault

    31
    Nov 21, 2020
    well i mean the great khans are pretty successful at raiding. IF you allow them to leave the mojave then they carve a mighty empire out of the north west based around i'm assuming raiding primarily since that's what their culture is based around. though they do make chems for the fiends, though i always assumed they stopped once they leave the mojave for wyoming or wherever they go off too. so raiding isn't exactly going away i think.
     
  17. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Mojave Express Employee of the Month

    Mar 16, 2013
    The Khans aren't just raiders though. Immoral as you may consider it, producing chems gives them income and economy. They're open to trade, relations et cetera. They aren't like the White Legs or the Fiends who are hostile on sight. It's a different stripe. The Khans are a warrior culture that raid, but they're not just raiders.
     
  18. KingArthur

    KingArthur Based Black Bart

    Jun 25, 2018
    I read the name Joe Cobb and confused the Powder Ganger with the song Ty Cobb by Soundgarden and my brain just about shit itself
     
  19. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Mojave Express Employee of the Month

    Mar 16, 2013
    Far out
     
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  20. Iprovidelittlepianos

    Iprovidelittlepianos It Wandered In From the Wastes

    197
    May 12, 2020
    Ty Cobb was also a baseball player. “Hard-headed fuck you all!”
     
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