Why I love Skyrim

Oh boy, now you are saying the Skyrim map is better than Witcher 3's? I usually don't hold the "smaller than it should" thing against open world games but that is just retarded.

Witcher 3's map is beautiful. It's also literally 90% a bunch of tiny villages with nothing to differentiate themselves and roads you have to tun or ride to get to various quests. Skellige was the worst of this but Velen was pretty awful too.

They could have reduced the map by literally a third and nothing would have been lost but travel time.
 
I don't know every quest in Skyrim, so maybe there is one about those starving villagers that one of you guys mentioned here.
That was just hypothetical example.
In Mount&Blade it would get hard time limit, in Skyrim it does not.
I really don't get what point that you are trying to make besides different games have different approaches.
It does even speak to the player character (which I imagine could impose some urgency indeed).
Yes, it does. It calls the MC Dovahkiin (I'm too tried to confirm it.). No, it doesn't create urgency. It creates a hook which would be great people noticed that or the MC acknowledges it.
Out of many things that could be passed as improvement to Skyrim main quest, the time limit is not of the essence.

And lacking an overhaul that would impose time limits on every quest, I would rather make it a story where the player learns of a few closely related goals to do, and it is the order in which player completes them that matters. So, you still get to defeat Alduin one day, but it bears different weight (and consequences, if any) depending on whether and how player handled that extra stuff.
When I said "It removes the only deadline that Bethesda would allow.", I meant the ending. I don't know about TES but the reason why FO4 only had Endings: A Male, B Male, A Female, and B Female, instead of a slideshow of what happened in the wasteland is because all the side quest can be completed after finishing the main quest. In FO:NV, certain quests can simply remain unfinished and reveal its natural outcome.
I still think that who ever came up with this skill system should be kinda slapped in the face. Or forced to go trough brewing/smithing/crafting 1000 items every day.
It is needless busywork that is added because mechanics such as leveling up is associated with RPGs. It is like cake with only frosting.
 
The best quest in my opinion, was the task you got with the Thalmor breaking into their embassy. Not only could you actually use some thief skills here to great effect, and roleplay a 'little' but it was a quest that created urgency on it's own, without always telling you that you had to do it now, it also required the player to step out of his role as adventurer for a moment and pretend that he was a noble to get access to the embassy. As far as Skyrim quests goes, it was one of the better places. Sadly, it was a rare moment. I don't have a problem with this Sandbox experience, but as some already mentioned Gothic 1 and 2 did it already 2 decades ago, and much better at least as far as the story and quests goes.

Ah yes I enjoyed that mission too. I liked sneaking in the hooded robes and trying to get through the embassy without getting caught. Which if you were a High Elf fine, no hassle, but other races would get the guards attention, especially the beast races.
 
Oddly to use fighting words, the Witcher's design philosophy of hundreds of tiny villages with nothing to distinguish them reminds me of Fallout 4.

Except good writing in the quests covered it up.
 
Ah yes I enjoyed that mission too. I liked sneaking in the hooded robes and trying to get through the embassy without getting caught. Which if you were a High Elf fine, no hassle, but other races would get the guards attention, especially the beast races.
Imagine that for a moment. Playing anything but a Nord or 'human' race would exclude you from playing with the Stormcloacks, and if you decided to work for them as one of the beast races which would require some heavy convincing that you're actually usefull, the story would change in the way that you could never be more but a 'mercenary' for them.

Now that I am thinking about it, Bethesda really missed a lot of oportunities here with the civil war, getting in to the civil war should have been a real huge event, where the factions should have played a role in it as well, kinda like New Vegas. Fuck, the Civil War should have been actually the main quest line of the game, could have still thrown the dragons in there somehow, no clue. But it would have been a more personal and grounded story for a change and not one that was about the world getting destroyed.

They could have reduced the map by literally a third and nothing would have been lost but travel time.
Sometimes you only realize when something is good when it's not there anymore. Call me stupid, but I often feel that some old games had it actually right, like if you compare Resident Evil 1 with the newest Resident Evil game. The fact that the player had to fight the controlls almost as much like the enemies, created some kind of 'awkwardness' that made you always feel uneasy and it really added a lot to the survival horror genre. But in 'modern' games, that's of course not possible anymore, making the player feel unconfortable on purpose? Not giving him controll over the camera angle? Fuck! No! This is AAA gaming, we can't just make turds, they have to be polished turds! And all of a sudden you have a Resident Evil game that plays more like gears of war.

The fact that you actually bemoan this about the Witcher 3 (to laaarge!) now makes me crave that game even more :P.
 
Last edited:
How is it dumb? I am stating that smaller inaccurate villagers are better because you get the feeling of a place while also not having to waste too much time running through pointless scenery. Witcher 3 had minutes of running and riding for no fucking good reason other than to simulate "big." It's better to keep things smaller and more concise.

Hence, yes, too big.
Whatever, then.

You like shit games, that's fine.

But don't go around telling us the game is 'good', and then turning around to tell how the other game is 'bad'. You have no privilege there other than to proclaim you had fun with polished turds.

Enjoy your inferior product, mate.
 
Imagine that for a moment. Playing anything but a Nord or 'human' race would exclude you from playing with the Stormcloacks, and if you decided to work for them as one of the beast races which would require some heavy convincing that you're actually usefull, the story would change in the way that you could never be more but a 'mercenary' for them.

Now that I am thinking about it, Bethesda really missed a lot of oportunities here with the civil war, getting in to the civil war should have been a real huge event, where the factions should have played a role in it as well, kinda like New Vegas. Fuck, the Civil War should have been actually the main quest line of the game, could have still thrown the dragons in there somehow, no clue. But it would have been a more personal and grounded story for a change and not one that was about the world getting destroyed.

Tell me about it. If you're an elf and go to join the Stormcloaks, nothing changes beyond "Why's an elf want to fight for us?" They should be like the Brotherhood from Fallout 1, sending you on a suicide mission to get rid of you, not going "Oh ok, well prove yourself by killing some ice wraiths."

There's also the fact that even though Khajiit are banned from the cities, no one gives a shit about you waltzing through if you're a Khajiit. Skyrim doesn't have the Internet so not everyone will know about the Dragonborn, nor believe that they are.
 
I think narratively the game was structured to feel like stuff is going on but was actually written so the Courier is the fulcrum for everything.
No, the Courier only became the tiebreaker when he interacts with the crucial third player, Mr. House.
I think we should not get to hung up on the "urgency" though, I think no one here expects that all and every quest in Skyrim should have a timer clicking in the background. The problem is just, that a lot of the quests in the game are trying to create some kind of urgency, well because it ads to the drama!
The point that I made with the urgency bit isn't necessarily the lack of it but its inconsistency. If we follow a 3 act format to achieve what is intended with Skyrim, ideally the first act should be engaging enough that it is main focus but not enough to ignore the side content. The second act should lay down the end goal and flesh out the stakes. The final act should provide sense of dread not necessarily with a time limit but maybe a "You only get one shot at this. You better prepare and do all of your unfinished business." thing.
 
Last edited:
Yes, it does. It calls the MC Dovahkiin (I'm too tried to confirm it.). No, it doesn't create urgency. It creates a hook which would be great people noticed that or the MC acknowledges it.
That comes later in the game. But I was thinking of: what if during escaping in Helgen Alduin would notice the player character, forcegreeting a conversation or scene, explaining that he's not killing you now, but he'll return soon. If that's not enough, imagine he says he'll be back with all his power First Seed month next year (roughly 150 days).

Concerning the time limit, if you have a game with no time limits, then you shouldn't have quests about starving villagers. Maybe Skyrim does not have any such an offending quest, I don't know. It sure does a lot of moments when you can leave people fighting and preparing for fight and ruin your suspension of disbelief by lollygagging for weeks and return to see no advancement. But these are short-term, immediate urgencies, which any player who pay attention to the dialogues can easily recognize and follow, so that's more or less okay for me. As for the main quest, Black Angel is concerned about Alduin's return to power... which is all but a short-term urgency.

@"It removes the only deadline that Bethesda would allow." - yes, recent TES games don't end with a slideshow summary, with which the game either ends (F1,2,NV), or drops you in a stripped down version of itself (Witcher 3). That's why the whole concept of main quest is a bit fuzzy and I can imagine having multiple subgoals instead of one main goal, even while staying withing a three-act framework of sort.
 
Whatever, then.

You like shit games, that's fine.

But don't go around telling us the game is 'good', and then turning around to tell how the other game is 'bad'. You have no privilege there other than to proclaim you had fun with polished turds.

Enjoy your inferior product, mate.

With all due respect, fuck that gatekeeping bullshit. There are no Keymasters or Pontiff of Game Enjoyment. You know who gets to determine what games are good and what aren't? THE GUY WHO SHELLS OUT MONEY TO PLAY THEM.

:-p

You're entitled to hate the game but don't hate the players.

"Everything sucks or could be better. 10/10."
Dude, you seriously need to stop being afraid of scores lower than 8/10.

For your enjoyment, MY CALL OF DUTY REVIEWS!

Ghost: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/2016/05/call-of-duty-ghosts-review.html

5 out of 10!

Advanced Warfare: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/2016/05/call-of-duty-advanced-warfare-review.html

4 out of 10!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Now I wouldn't have put it past you to give Call of Duty all 10/10s (because that whole "that hooker gave me AIDS and I can never enjoy life again, but hey, I busted a nut so 10/10"), but at least you appear to have some resemblance of taste. Sometimes. When the Vegas hooker not only gives you VD but also robs and castrates you, apparently.
 
Ghosts is a better game than Advanced Warfare because it has a dog.

:thumbs up:

:)

But yes, I was a huge Modern Warfare and Black Ops fan so I felt the need to explain why I felt those games betrayed what I liked about them.
 
You're entitled to hate the game but don't hate the players.
What the fuck are you on about?

I don't 'hate' the game nor hate the players.

What I hate is when there's someone like you trying to tell me how a game is good, when it's not, and then turn around to say how the ACTUALLY good game in comparison is 'bad'.

You don't have that privilege because you're a casual who loves to play games on easy. Because of that, you don't like rules that made the actual game.

Like I said, no rules = no games.

What you love to play are no games, they are mindless time-waster meant to fulfill your power-fantasy.
 
What I'm saying is Black Angel it's my opinion and you may disagree but don't try and state some kind of weird objective quality that says, "OH MY GOD, YOU ARE WRONG!"

There's not.

I respect you hate Skyrim and have decent reasons for it. I was also going to play Dark Souls through and compare/contrast on your recommendation (I've even bought it) but Im starting to wonder if that's a good idea since you're taking this way too seriously.
 
Now that I am thinking about it, Bethesda really missed a lot of oportunities here with the civil war, getting in to the civil war should have been a real huge event, where the factions should have played a role in it as well, kinda like New Vegas. Fuck, the Civil War should have been actually the main quest line of the game, could have still thrown the dragons in there somehow, no clue. But it would have been a more personal and grounded story for a change and not one that was about the world getting destroyed.
This is why I think that the game should just end after the main quest. The civil war seems so petty after Ragnarok and the lack of a more permanent third option seems pretty stupid for the savior of the world.

Lunar 1 for PS1 is unique that one shopkeeper actually gives everything out for free leading up to the final boss.

if you compare Resident Evil 1 with the newest Resident Evil game. The fact that the player had to fight the controlls almost as much like the enemies, created some kind of 'awkwardness' that made you always feel uneasy and it really added a lot to the survival horror genre.
I made a post explaining my feelings on that.
Going back to video games as a whole, it seems like whenever anyone makes a conjecture about a design of a video game it is generally accepted without any challenge.
  • Character relative controls were added into survival horror games because it makes it scary.
  • The lives system is outdated in 2D platformers.
  • Dark Souls is more like a WRPG despite being a game made in Japan, mostly by Japanese people, and published by a Japanese company.
The point isn't whether these are correct or not but how they are accepted without much question. I mean look at this game.
Five skeleton just on the cover! This definitely proves the first conjecture.

This reminds me of the infancy of Psychoanalysis. Sigmund Freud is extremely well respected; but despite how well thought out his theories were, they were mostly disproved.
My point was that might be putting the horse before the carriage. Character relative controls were the standard way to control characters in 3D adventure games especially those that use pre-rendered backgrounds because those relied fixed camera angles. Also, it puts more emphasis on interacting with your surroundings like a detective which was the focus of survival horror titles.

BTW: Never liked race as mechanic. It is just a second job class that is poorly contextualized. Do like how Super Mutants can't use small guns because of their giant hands.

That's why the whole concept of main quest is a bit fuzzy and I can imagine having multiple subgoals instead of one main goal, even while staying withing a three-act framework of sort.
The main quest just refer to a quest line that must be completed to finish the game.
 
This is why I think that the game should just end after the main quest. The civil war seems so petty after Ragnarok and the lack of a more permanent third option seems pretty stupid for the savior of the world.

Actually, @CaptJ while Skyrim's story has flaws, that was actually one of the areas they put a lot of thought into. Skyrim's major theme is basically a conflict between the petty political struggle of the Civil War and the big epic mythological struggle of Alduin's return. The Civil War is meant to be pretty stupid and something which is distracting anyone from the real threat. This isn't me reading things into it because the head of the Greybeards, the head of the BARD'S college, and the Blades all repeat it in-game. Who is High King doesn't matter versus the World Devourer's return.

I will say, I actually did think there was pathos to the idea that the Dragonborn ending the civil war is dirty clean up work rather than actual victory.

Dragon Age: Origins did something similar with Loghain but defeating him felt like a vital step to saving the world--whereas in Skyrim, the Civil War is meant to be two decent groups of people fighting over something meaningless.
 
Skyrim's major theme is basically a conflict between the petty political struggle of the Civil War and the big epic mythological struggle of Alduin's return. The Civil War is meant to be pretty stupid and something which is distracting anyone from the real threat.
That only works before you defeat Alduin. It is beneath the Dragonborn now. One of the cut line from scraped FO:NV post-Hoover Dam section had a NPC refusing to give the Courier a new task despite having a lot to do stating that it is a waste of his talents.
 
That only works before you defeat Alduin. It is beneath the Dragonborn now. One of the cut line from scraped FO:NV post-Hoover Dam section had a NPC refusing to give the Courier a new task despite having a lot to do stating that it is a waste of his talents.

Eh, while funny to make fun of the "Twenty bear asses" fetch quests, I think the Dragonborn should still try to bring peace to the country. I agree, though, an option to do a third option would have felt more "heroic." Albeit, I think they could have done a lot of interesting storytelling decisions they didn't get a chance to do.

I mentioned the High King and Civil War plots both felt underdeveloped.
 
Back
Top