Why is a battle going on in the DC ruins?

[Jogre]

I'm talking about the entire Capital Wasteland as a whole, if that makes sense.

I get what you mean, but if you leave an entire region of the world to just die off, you are still adding to the suffering in the world, so unless you are somehow doing more good elsewhere, I don't see how "It's not worth saving" line of reasoning would work.

 

[CT Phipps]

Eh, that's a dangerous line of reasoning if you ask me.

The way I see it, the needs of each person is important, regardless of there past actions, and if you just left people to die in there own graves you'd just be adding to the suffering in the world.

That's not Enclave reasoning at all.

Enclave reasoning goes a little more like this:
*Cough*Cough*
"Pure humanity is at risk of extinction!, We must preserve our species at all cost, and the only way to do that is by slaughtering absolutely everyone who isn't us! We're totally not bigots though, we just want to preserve our shitty definition of humanity. SHUT UP, WE'RE NOT BIGOTS, WE'RE RATIONAL!"

True, I suppose it's the Maxson Brotherhood of Steel hat. The ones who actually thought they'd eventually raise up humanity again. People forget the BOS were supposed to help mankind.

Someday.

But yes, I do like the Sneering Imperialist attitude of some characters despite the fact it's all the ruins of the USA.

 

[Prone Squanderer]

I get what you mean, but if you leave an entire region of the world to just die off, you are still adding to the suffering in the world, so unless you are somehow doing more good elsewhere, I don't see how "It's not worth saving" line of reasoning would work.

I understand that and I'm not trying to come off as a heartless pessimist, I'm just simply saying the CW made no attempt to rebuild or form any kind of serious government (Republic of Dave does not count) and in 200 years have made zero progress with anything, so will anything we do really make a difference? The LW can't be everywhere at once and once they die it'll go back to square one.

Funnily enough as I think about this (and your mentioning of the Enclave a few posts back), Colonel Autumn's plan was probably realized when the BOS took control of the purifier. The BOS are the ones in full power at that point and with a fresh water supply like that under their sole control they could easily recruit (or conscript) and make their position dominant. Which (depending on how you look at it) is either better for the people of the CW or worse, as it's either a great governing force or a tyrannical oppressor.

 

[peadar87]

With enough people, DC could actually by a pretty good fortified city. All the access points are blocked off by rubble, so the only reliable way in is through the subways, which are natural chokepoints and kill zones. A few hundred decently-armed people could man the walls and the subway stations and protect tens of thousands inside. Places like the Mall could be farmed pretty easily, and there is water on two sides of the triangle, so the residents would also be able to trade and resupply by sea, which is going to be a lot easier than risky overland routes.

As for why people are fighting over them now, the entire economy of the CW seems to be based around scavenging, and a dead city is where the most useful things are likely to be found. Everything from copper wire to energy cells to hand tools.

Of course, this all makes a lot more sense if FO3 is set 20 years after the bombs fall, and the BoS is instead a beleaguered detachment of the US army sent in for riot control (if people are that dead set on power armour).

 

[CT Phipps]

I understand that and I'm not trying to come off as a heartless pessimist, I'm just simply saying the CW made no attempt to rebuild or form any kind of serious government (Republic of Dave does not count) and in 200 years have made zero progress with anything, so will anything we do really make a difference? The LW can't be everywhere at once and once they die it'll go back to square one.

They literally built two cities out of scrap, one of which is a converted aircraft carrier. This is despite the fact that unlike every other period in history, they'd be under constant attack by big yellow incredible Hulks and enormous monsters. The LW inspired people like Three Dog and others trapped in pessimism to rise above their circumstances.

Also, NCR would be extinct if not for the VD. They just got the help of the One Great Player Character of HistoryTM earlier.

Funnily enough as I think about this (and your mentioning of the Enclave a few posts back), Colonel Autumn's plan was probably realized when the BOS took control of the purifier. The BOS are the ones in full power at that point and with a fresh water supply like that under their sole control they could easily recruit (or conscript) and make their position dominant. Which (depending on how you look at it) is either better for the people of the CW or worse, as it's either a great governing force or a tyrannical oppressor.

I mentioned it would probably degenerate into a feudal state in my ambiguity essay and two years later, Arthur Maxson was revealed so called it!

 

[Prone Squanderer]

They literally built two cities out of scrap, one of which is a converted aircraft carrier. This is despite the fact that unlike every other period in history, they'd be under constant attack by big yellow incredible Hulks and enormous monsters. The LW inspired people like Three Dog and others trapped in pessimism to rise above their circumstances.

Also, NCR would be extinct if not for the VD. They just got the help of the One Great Player Character of HistoryTM earlier.



I mentioned it would probably degenerate into a feudal state in my ambiguity essay and two years later, Arthur Maxson was revealed so called it!

I'd give you a cookie but I only have mince pies.

 

[naossano]

Talon company vs super mutants disturbed me even more.

But the ice on the cake was feral ghouls. They are the first and last generation, they dontrecruit, they don't dip on vats, they are always hostiles, they keep being killed, and yet,they still exist after 200 years...

 

[CT Phipps]

Talon company vs super mutants disturbed me even more.

But the ice on the cake was feral ghouls. They are the first and last generation, they dontrecruit, they don't dip on vats, they are always hostiles, they keep being killed, and yet,they still exist after 200 years...

7,000,000,000 people killed by nukes is a shit ton of ghouls to go feral.

Even assuming only 1 in 1,000 or 10,000 people turn into ghouls.

 

[naossano]

At best, it could be an estimate of day one population. Doesn't change everything stated in the previous post. Their population can only go down, not up, and we are talking about centuries.

And there is not 7 millions of people in dc downtown....

 

[TheLaserRaptor]

These aren't the Masters Super-mutants. They're more random mutants like Harold.

I don't buy that. First off, there *are* Masters in Fallout 3, and they're all crazy retarded psychotic. Also, in Fallout 2 there were *many* Super Mutants who *weren't* Masters, and they were just fine.

**EDIT** I misread your post, I see what you're saying about how they aren't the Master's SM. That actually makes some sense.

Still... wtf Bethesda, no need to turn Super Mutants into loony psychos.

 

[CT Phipps]

I don't buy that. First off, there *are* Masters in Fallout 3, and they're all crazy retarded psychotic. Also, in Fallout 2 there were *many* Super Mutants who *weren't* Masters, and they were just fine.

**EDIT** I misread your post, I see what you're saying about how they aren't the Master's SM. That actually makes some sense.

Still... wtf Bethesda, no need to turn Super Mutants into loony psychos.

I confess, I felt there was a missed opportunity with the Super Mutants. A chance to speak with their chief and find out why they're so violent.

 

[zegh8578]

Not to beat a dead horse any further, but Beth is about the missed oportunities.
What about Uncle Leo?

That's a character in Fallout 3, a NAMED, intelligent, talking, peaceful super mutant
"special encounter" only
and he speaks like 2 lines
unless you manage to get a deathclaw spawning right next to him, killing him, preferably before you're even able to spot the fucker...

 

[Prone Squanderer]

Not to beat a dead horse any further, but Beth is about the missed oportunities.
What about Uncle Leo?

That's a character in Fallout 3, a NAMED, intelligent, talking, peaceful super mutant
"special encounter" only
and he speaks like 2 lines
unless you manage to get a deathclaw spawning right next to him, killing him, preferably before you're even able to spot the fucker...

I remember ages ago reading that if Fawkes and Uncle Leo meet they'll have a conversation. Never found out if it was true though.

Leo gives you a suit as well, if you're an arsehole and try to rob him that is.

 

[Jogre]

This is despite the fact that unlike every other period in history, they'd be under constant attack by big yellow incredible Hulks and enormous monsters

And there's another thing that doesn't make sense about Fallout 3.

In Fallout 1, Supermutants are a real threat. A small army of them is enough to outright take over California. They were a genuine threat to the entire core region, and perhaps within a few decades could have taken over the entire West Coast, they were the real deal, the big looming threat that is always there, in there own corner of the world, that could be ready to attack at any moment.

In Fallout 3 they are more of a nuisance. These fuckers have been around for 200 years, yet somehow there is still a thinly walled town, with just a Protectron and Sherriff protecting it, that hasn't been ovverun.

In 200 years of being completely unchecked, how have the Supermutants not destroyed the entirety of the Capital Wasteland? Even if you can do the mental gymnastics to justify them not taking it over, how come nobody treats them as a serious threat. You never hear anyone seem genuinely worried about this entire horde of biologically perfect killing machines that could potentially trample there entire town in minutes.

 

[CT Phipps]

And there's another thing that doesn't make sense about Fallout 3.

In Fallout 1, Supermutants are a real threat. A small army of them is enough to outright take over California. They were a genuine threat to the entire core region, and perhaps within a few decades could have taken over the entire West Coast, they were the real deal, the big looming threat that is always there, in there own corner of the world, that could be ready to attack at any moment.

Eh, when the Master is killed, the Super Mutants lose all of their capacity to threaten the surrounding area. They become small bands of competing individual.

In Fallout 3 they are more of a nuisance. These fuckers have been around for 200 years, yet somehow there is still a thinly walled town, with just a Protectron and Sherriff protecting it, that hasn't been ovverun.

Eh, they just want humans to put in FEV...and maybe to eat.

In 200 years of being completely unchecked, how have the Supermutants not destroyed the entirety of the Capital Wasteland? Even if you can do the mental gymnastics to justify them not taking it over, how come nobody treats them as a serious threat. You never hear anyone seem genuinely worried about this entire horde of biologically perfect killing machines that could potentially trample there entire town in minutes.

They are actually really worrying Big Town. Which, admittedly, is not that big a part of the story.

 

[Prone Squanderer]

Eh, when the Master is killed, the Super Mutants lose all of their capacity to threaten the surrounding area. They become small bands of competing individual.



Eh, they just want humans to put in FEV...and maybe to eat.



They are actually really worrying Big Town. Which, admittedly, is not that big a part of the story.

To be fair when the Master is killed it isn't just him, the Cathedral is destroyed, which is their main recruitment centre and headquarters. Mariposa's destruction also takes a large number of mutants, the FEV itself and the Lieutenant, who is arguably the most intelligent of the Super Mutants. Without strong leadership the Super Mutants can't manage on their own, they splinter off into smaller groups. You could argue they're even more dangerous as they aren't as disciplined anymore since they have no higher authority to report to.

 

[CT Phipps]

To be fair when the Master is killed it isn't just him, the Cathedral is destroyed, which is their main recruitment centre and headquarters. Mariposa's destruction also takes a large number of mutants, the FEV itself and the Lieutenant, who is arguably the most intelligent of the Super Mutants. Without strong leadership the Super Mutants can't manage on their own, they splinter off into smaller groups. You could argue they're even more dangerous as they aren't as disciplined anymore since they have no higher authority to report to.

I admit, I do think the setting would have been enriched by adding some more history and setting details:

Something like Elder Scrolls lore books:

Prior to the Brotherhood of Steel's arrival, the Capital Wasteland relied on the mercenary armies of Talon Company and the Regulators to keep the peace against the Super Mutants' regular kidnappings and attacks. Many people believed the Super Mutants were not interested in doing more than kidnapping the occasional recruit or meal but it seemed the mercenaries were holding the line.

The near-destruction of the Regulators in a mysterious massacre by Raven's Rock destroyed the largest source of the Capital Wasteland's homegrown defense, however, while the arrival of the Brotherhood of Steel meant the public no longer felt the desire to pay Talon Company exhorbiant "protection" fees, which resulted in them shifting to become bandits. Indeed, it is believed Talon Company deliberately armed many bandits and raiders to make their services seem more necessary.

The Brotherhood of Steel proved a poor substitute for the Regulators, though, as the Super Mutants proved to have far vaster numbers than expected as well as more resources. They have since been driven back to the ruins of Washington D.C. and many believe the Super Mutants, once they have recaptured the Mall, will attack the Pentagon directly. Recent desertions by the Brotherhood have also crippled their ability to retaliate, forcing them to hire Talon Company to battle them in the Capital Building's ruins.

The Raider problem has also reached an epic crescendo with the destruction of the largest settlement in the Capital Wasteland. Using a Behemoth to soften it up, the roving gangs of the Capital Wasteland successfully slaughtered Evergreen Mills' defenders before selling its population to the slavers of Paradise Falls. No one is certain who has bought the inhabitants but it has called into question whether there will be any survivors in the region in the coming years.

 

[CerberusGate]

Prior to the Brotherhood of Steel's arrival, the Capital Wasteland relied on the mercenary armies of Talon Company and the Regulators to keep the peace against the Super Mutants' regular kidnappings and attacks. Many people believed the Super Mutants were not interested in doing more than kidnapping the occasional recruit or meal but it seemed the mercenaries were holding the line.

The near-destruction of the Regulators in a mysterious massacre by Raven's Rock destroyed the largest source of the Capital Wasteland's homegrown defense, however, while the arrival of the Brotherhood of Steel meant the public no longer felt the desire to pay Talon Company exhorbiant "protection" fees, which resulted in them shifting to become bandits. Indeed, it is believed Talon Company deliberately armed many bandits and raiders to make their services seem more necessary.

The Brotherhood of Steel proved a poor substitute for the Regulators, though, as the Super Mutants proved to have far vaster numbers than expected as well as more resources. They have since been driven back to the ruins of Washington D.C. and many believe the Super Mutants, once they have recaptured the Mall, will attack the Pentagon directly. Recent desertions by the Brotherhood have also crippled their ability to retaliate, forcing them to hire Talon Company to battle them in the Capital Building's ruins.

The Raider problem has also reached an epic crescendo with the destruction of the largest settlement in the Capital Wasteland. Using a Behemoth to soften it up, the roving gangs of the Capital Wasteland successfully slaughtered Evergreen Mills' defenders before selling its population to the slavers of Paradise Falls. No one is certain who has bought the inhabitants but it has called into question whether there will be any survivors in the region in the coming years.

That would work if 3 was actually set as a story before 1, just after the bombs fell, rather than an attempted direct sequel.

No need for Brotherhood of Steel or other Fallout factions & groups from the West Coast, just have the Fallout aesthetic and themes along with a properly thought out background for the Capital Wasteland. It would make the plot sensible, the desolation more poignant and it would have pissed off less classic Fallout fans in comparison.

 

[CT Phipps]

That would work if 3 was actually set as a story before 1, just after the bombs fell, rather than an attempted direct sequel.

No need for Brotherhood of Steel or other Fallout factions & groups from the West Coast, just have the Fallout aesthetic and themes along with a properly thought out background for the Capital Wasteland. It would make the plot sensible, the desolation more poignant and it would have pissed off less classic Fallout fans in comparison.

Ehhh, I wanted to see someone try to save the BOS from its own irrelevance. The irony being Lyons just made a monster.

Of course, that would require Fallout 4 to be good.

 

[CerberusGate]

Of course, that would require Fallout 4 to be good.

And we all know the reality of that situation, eh?