Why is Fallout 3 so hated?

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by MrMagic, Dec 31, 2012.

  1. sea

    sea Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 5, 2009
    There were definitely some good moments of exploration in Fallout 3 with some cool locations you could stumble across. I liked the satellite dishes out in the wastes, many that were taken over by raiders; I like finding the Talon Company base; the Hubris Comics building; the overrun deathclaw village; the yao-gui caves, etc.

    The problem, I think, was that Fallout 3 was basically a dungeon crawler - one with more story than usual, granted, but just as Oblivion and Skyrim have been moving away from being about exploration, story, and quests and more towards killing stuff in caves and ruins, Fallout 3 was also extremely combat-centric and was totally littered with combat areas that had no real purpose other than being there. If that's your thing, then it's fun (and I explored the whole game pretty much top to bottom just for completion's sake), but that's never what Fallout was really about.

    It's also why New Vegas was such a great return to form for me. You still have the huge open world, but now the side locations are more for flavor and less the main attraction - and often they are flavorful, instead of "another sewer" or whatever. The game's focus is solely on story, quests and the world, and as such its exploration was a lot more satisfying... first time I came across the Brotherhood's base, it really felt like I had found something worthwhile, not just another bunch of super mutants to blast and loot.
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  2. Kalasanty11

    Kalasanty11 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Sep 18, 2013
    That's all you've managed to understand from all that critique?

    Fallout 3 sucks as Fallout game because:
    1. It basically forces you into combat. Enclave and supermutants will always be hostile, no matter what. How are you suppose to play diplomat character if 99% of game-world population is after your blood? You could finish F1&2 without fighting any sm or Enclave (with a little luck - or skill - for random encounters) F3 is basically a slugfest.
    2. Assume that you prefer to fight, not talk. Enclave troopers and sm always posed a challenge in older games (even though games weren't even that hard if you used your brain). In Fallout 3 they are a sad joke, parody of their formal selves. You can easily kill Enclave laser-wielding soldier with a pistol.
    3. Dialogues sucked. Blow up Megaton and speak to Moira, you'll get it.
    4. No c&c. When you choose one wrong dialogue option in speech with Lynette (F2), she will expell you from city. Permanently. That will block off all quests from this city, and even one from another.
    What was F3 response? Megaton - blow up a city, you will get an apartament. Don't do it - you get an apartament. Don't do it, you will able to finish Wasteland Survival Guide. Do it... you will also be able to do that. Moira surviving not only rapes lore from previous games, but also is inconsistent with what you hear in F3 itself. All that to prevent game from having actual consequences.
    Another example? Karma system. Blow up a town - you've got the worst karma possible, go donate 2000 caps to a priest, which gives you the highest karma, kill the priest, get your caps back - you are still messiah. If you get one of the good companions after that, she will tell you that you are making your father proud :)
    Murder half of the population from Megaton. Return after three in-game days - nobody cares. Give the priest 2000 caps and the survivors of your massacre will greet you with fucking gifts and praise your goodness.
    5. Game limits your freedom way more than older parts. You are forced to help BoS and finish Project Purity. Game makes sure that you will do just that by making some of the character immortal. You may argue that older parts also are somehow linear. But do they handle it the same way as Fallout 3? You can kill most of the BoS paladins in plain sight with no consequences. You can send Lyons' daughter to the Purifier. After that Lyons will still express relief that you are alive and will promote you to Knighthood. You can celebrate your promotion by killing rest of the knights. No crap is given.
    6. Plot is rehashed version of these ones found in older games. Very little original thought behind it. Hell, it even ripped off Oblivion's story structure to some extent.
    7. Stats now have little meaning. You can use fatman or minigun normally with 1 point in strength. Due to hp bloat endurance isn't that important. Charisma is worthless. Agility matters a little, basically only in god mo... I mean VATS.
    8. Grey morality. Fallout 1 has very interesting villain, some even argue that his plan for humanity would break "war never changes" cycle. Fallout 2 has one-dimensional villain, that was basically created as a joke. Game was vastly criticized for that, even on NMA.
    Guess what game F3 took inspirations from?

    And some other reasons I don't recall now.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2014
  3. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    Much worse, it's typical bethesdian dungeon crawler. Level-scaled opponents dropping level-scaled loot; containers full of randomly generated and level-scaled generic stuff. This pissed me off since Morrowind - you could actually make quick trip from Seyda Neen to Ghost Gate and start killing corpruses with your level 1 character dressed in ragged shirt and wielding a rusty sword, while the most powerful magicians and warriors of VVardenfell are sitting afraid in their fortresses, whispering terrifying stories about most dreadful and unstoppable enemies. Such a consoletardeous shit cannot be tolerated!
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2014
  4. No Man

    No Man Gore Bag > Meat Bag

    Feb 20, 2014
    Morrowind creatures weren't level-scaled. The guys you are killing at Ghostgate are some grunts, the 'dreadful and unstoppable enemies' are the big 'Dagoth' guys mostly sitting in their fortresses. Morrowind was actually kinda good in that regard. For instance, stealing from a daedric shrine gets the same pissed off Dremora on your ass whether or not you can take it or daedric items being really rare. But that was unrelated.

    Funny thing about Fallout 3 is that it fails miserably as a TES game if you think about it. Does FO3 have any joinable factions with full questlines? No. Does it have a ton of sidequests? It has a few, but nothing remotely close to TES. Modular equipment? Actually unique items (as opposed to a changed name and damage)? Some colours? No, no and green and gray are a colour scheme taken from GameBoy. Basically the whole thing is set in a somewhat small, restrictive version of a Bethesda game world, with a couple of places, but instead of coming up with quests to be tied to such places to actually do something there, they just left them completely pointless and said the game is 'about exploration'. In TES MQ is considered 'a small part of the game', because it objectively is. It's dwarfed by huge amount of side quests and joinable factions. In FO3 MQ is considered 'a small part of the game', because there is a bunch of samey shit thrown around the map and going there and killing everything inside would take a lot more time. Honestly, if this was set in TES universe and was a TES title, it would be considered the laziest, smallest, most limited one.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2014
  5. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    I'm totally agree with you except MQ of Morrowind isn't that small.
    actually it's tied with many subquests and subquest affects MQ.

    Fo3's dungeons are smallest among TES.
    and quests are disconnected each other and not much long.
    so I think it's weakest not only among Fallout but also among TES.
    maybe that the reason why I hate fo3 far much more than other games..

    Some of Morrowind's enemy scailed by level: Daedra and undeads.
    but human enemies are not scailed, each of human enemy has thier own name and attributes.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2014
  6. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    Check out for yourself, I had uploaded this screenshot some time ago, it's official *.esp file opened in the construction set:

    As you can see, there's shitload of spawnpoints in each map cell, with predefined level-scaled monster generator. As for level-scaled loot, that's clearly visible even in Fallout New Vegas, it's still the same friggin engine.

    Nuff said, I totally agree with the rest of your previous post.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2014
  7. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    Well.. there aren't much field scailed by level in Morrowind(near daedra temple, inside of ghost gate).

    and yes, loots are scailed.
    even the weakeast and poorest smugglers smuggles expensive potions and grand soulgem if your level is high.
  8. No Man

    No Man Gore Bag > Meat Bag

    Feb 20, 2014
    Ah. I stand corrected.

    On a related (to the topic at least) note, there was something that was bothering me for a while now. Let's assume for a moment that Fallout lore still stands in FO3. So does basic logic. Outside of those times when both are openly defied, that is. This leaves us with three basic assumptions:
    1. Finding an FEV vat in downtown DC is rather unlikely (or rather downright impossible).
    2. A GECK has been (and therefore can be) used to jump-start a prosperous, thriving settlement in the wasteland before on the West Coast.
    3. Startling lack of everyone dying of radiation poisoning in the Capital Wasteland suggests that people have found ways to purify water without resorting to usage of high technology or giant purification plants built around historical monuments.

    From the beginning we are led to believe that James and his Project Purity friends as well as the DC chapter of Brotherhood of Steel are typical 100% good guys straight from a crappy Hollywood movie, that makes Michael Bay's films seem sophisticated. At the same time we are also told that Vault 87 Super Mutants are running out of FEV and are desperately searching downtown DC for more, while kidnapping people from central and western part of the CW as recruits and food.

    Now, BOS, which has supposedly 'gone native' is helping people of the wasteland by heroically fighting the mutant threat in downtown DC, stopping them from achieving their goal. There are several problems with this idea:
    1. Downtown DC is a ruined, dangerous and most importantly uninhabited area of the CW (I'd rather not use the term no man's land) that the Brotherhood or anyone gains nothing from.
    2. Fighting the mutants in DC thins out their numbers and forces them to recruit more soldiers.
    3. It's highly unlikely that SMs' search for FEV will be anything other than fruitless.
    The effect is that the 'white knightly do-gooder' BOS is killing SMs in the completely worthless, ruined area, stopping their wild goose chase and forcing them to kidnap more people to make more mutants instead of protecting the people they claim to protect (even IF the mutants did found the FEV, they'd still need people to make more mutants) in the settlements or on the roads in western and northern parts of the CW.

    On the other hand, the PP team is trying to make a huge purifier to give clean water to the wasteland. A noble goal, but people managed to survive without one for 200 years and since the number of people not dying from radiation poisoning is rather high, I'd think that they found a less complicated (and insane from logistical standpoint - try maintaining a steady supply of water deliveries through a post-apocalyptic wasteland filled with people, who are ready, willing and able to burn an orphanage for just one bottle) way of obtaining clean water. This begs for a question - why does this group of seemingly benevolent scientists want to use a GECK to finish their insane project instead of using its primary function to create a prosperous settlement capable perhaps of becoming the start of a new nation, which would bring stability to the area? You know, exactly like Shady Sands did?

    Come to think of it, it's actually not a bad theme. Seemingly good guys, whose misguided attempts to stick to their main objective and unwillingness to stop and rethink if the main objective still coresponds to the idea behind it, cause great waste on their part and ultimately cost lives and even the future of the wasteland. Better than the 'messianic sacrifice' bullshit FO3 rips off Oblivion.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2014
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  9. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007
    This was the plot of Fallout, no?
  10. Harken

    Harken Always late to the party

    Aug 16, 2014
    Now, I know that's sort of the background of VaultTec, but I'm pretty sure no one directly involved with the things that happened in FO1 or FO2 matched that. Both the Enclave and Unity were completely Knight Templars but neither were "seemingly good" at all.
  11. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    In the same "all-inclusive" manner, my friend tends to go "No games should be criticized.", backing it up with a "better-than-nothing" approach.
    He has the same thing with movies, and tends to get annoyed when I even try to make my mind up wether liking or disliking a movie.

    According to him a movie exists or does not exist, and if it exists it has given you *something*, and you should be thankful, regardless of wether it was a negative or positive experience.

    Interesting point of view, buuuut I don't agree.
  12. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Abalutza oTO Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    Tell your friend I said he doesn't know what he's talking about. Criticism encourages creativity. If we accepted every shit game or movie that was thrown our way we would have even more mindless fad driven bullshit. Analyzing the pros and cons is a natural human response. It's vital to all artistic mediums.

    "What do you think of this painting?"

    "It's okay I guess I should be glad that they painted it."

    Such bullshit. Sounds like one of those dudes that can't take it when you don't like something he likes. Which incidentally is the problem a lot of Fallout 3 fans have with the detractors.

    Movies, books, games, art, whatever. Nothing should be above criticism. We critique things to make them better in the future. I don't like this part of the game. This game mechanic is broken. This level is too linear. I suppose one should look over gamebreaking bugs and just deal. Hahaha. Man zegh you can really pick em. ;)
  13. oxidize

    oxidize It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Apr 18, 2012
  14. socomelite

    socomelite First time out of the vault

    May 22, 2015
    im new to the fallout games but i can relate to the original fans. some of my favorite game series in the late 90s/early 2000s took a horrible turn when major or hotshot company took over. sim city, halo, command and conquer and socom. halo and socom had new game devs that completely changed the game for the worse. sim city and c&c turned into pure cash cows for ea, sacrificing qualty gameplay they had. like fo3, the newer forms of these games are still fun and by themselves aren't terrible games. but when you tie them into their previous games..:seriouslyno: .

    i first heard about the hate for fo3 in a youtube video. then i looked into it and understood why the ooriginal fans hate it so much. even befor ei didnt take the game that serious with all the retarded shit in it. good thing im not an original fan
  15. Lexx

    Lexx Background Radiant
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    So I started playing some Fallout 3 again, because I had it recently installed (needed some files for modding).

    Now here is the deal: I can see why people say the game world in Fo3 looks better. There are trees everywhere and lots of rocks and shitton of grass and all that jazz, while New Vegas looks empty compared to that. Thing is just, the mojave desert doesn't have trees and forest in every corner. It's pretty hard to fill up that setting with scenery objects if you have to work with a desert landscape most of the time. Even if you place the biggest joshua tree forest you can, it still won't look or feel like Fallout 3. (On the other hand, New Vegas *does* feature pretty areas as well. It's just that players apparently like to forget about them easily)

    Anyway. Every single dialogue is destroying a part of my brain. It's shit, really. Just can't grasp how people are unable to see this. It's pretty much IN YOUR FACE all the time.

    Also the game is crashing like a russian prostitute on dope. New Vegas runs really stable for me. Can't remember my last crash with that game, while Fallout 3 is saying goodbye at least once every 20 minutes... and I don't even have any high level technical mods installed that fiddle with the game files.
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2015
  16. Warrior

    Warrior Banned

    Jan 3, 2014
    You shouldn't need to justify why you have Fallout 3 on your computer. lol

    Ya, a Youtuber I watch named Gopher said he didn't care for the New Vegas world, and I can understand his opinion. A desert will still look kind of bland and boring. Obsidian could've done a better job if they diversified the textures a bit.

    Fallout 3 story was pretty bad and forced. From the very start, why the hell does opening a vault door a second time cause radroaches to invade, and for some stupid reason everyone blames you for it. Then if you revisit Vault 101 afterwards they never clean themselves up. It's like everyone in the world became a retard and cannot remember how to clean.

    I hardly ever have problems with Fallout 3. The only problems I ever had was with the very beginning of the game when you are about to be born and the game freezes.
  17. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    I think a big issue is that multicore support is turned off by default, you have to change a line in the config, otherwise it will crash all the time.
    But even with that line changed it crashed quite often for me.
  18. Lexx

    Lexx Background Radiant
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    Nah, did all the tweaking already. Still crashes too often. Right now I am even at a point where I can't enter Megaton anymore, because the game will crash.... and I have not a single mod installed that changes anything in Megaton or somewhere else in the game world. If I start a new game everything is fine... but play a few hours and I can't enter Megaton anymore because of crash while loading. Tried this three times.

    @Dialogue: I don't even mean the story with what I wrote above. It's really the dialogue. When I read / hear Amata, my brain wants to explode. Or this stupid shit with Moira. Or that sheriff idiot in Megaton ("you've seen a middle-aged guy?"). It's all over the place. I feel happy about every character who *doesn't* talk.
  19. ChildServices

    ChildServices Banned

    May 22, 2015
    >mfw believing a single thing Todd Howard says

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2016
  20. DehOtherGuy

    DehOtherGuy First time out of the vault

    Jun 19, 2015
    Made a FO4 post but moved it to the appropriate section of the forum