Why is Fallout 3 so loved ?

Languorous_Maiar said:
BuffHamster.
For first.
I'm not saying anything bad about F:NV at all so don't write "F3 and FNV". For me, just F3 fails on almost all aspects. -No, I will use both as they are essentially the same: Both use SPECIAL, Skills, and Perks, both use the PipBoy as a character interaction tool, and both employ the same game engine and physics engine to use the basic elements of story telling, ie., Plot, Protagonist, and Antagonist. The only differences are Setting and Story.

Think about it for a second, it really doesn't make a very good game or role playing situation if it just describes average everyday life, ... I woke up, I had breakfast (or didn't), I went to work (or didn't), I came home, I had dinner, I went to bed, ... not a very exciting story there, in fact it is a fairly common experience. Guess what? people buy books, movie tickets, and games to experience new adventure, romance and fantasy in order to vicariously step away from common experience. Just look at what sells and what doesn't, in books, art and literature, there is always conflict and sex

You cannot complete any Fallout (1,2,3,NV) title without some conflict, that is the nature of story telling. All stories involve conflict of one form or another, be it with gun, sword, fist, or wits, it is always; man vs. man, man vs himself, man vs. the environment, and it is the same with romance; boy meets girl, boy meets boy, girl meets boy, girl meets girl. Although romance doesn't sell as well as adventure, in Fallout 3 and New Vegas, you can have that as well. Sam Spade detective? or Bounty Hunter? Who Do You Want to Be?
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And? Look at gameplay approach. Using such words you could compare RTS and FPS games... In good cRPG, you can complete it by non-killing or killing EVERYONE. It's just basic. Torment, Arcanum. Sounds familiar? Then it expands for more options. Sneaky approach, speech or fighting, and some more. Fo3? Focusing almost always on fighting, with 2 possible endings for every quest. Be good guy or be jerk.

-Yep, you can complete Deus Ex:Human Revolution without killing too, so? If you didn't like the approach to the story, (which did not involve killing at every turn, for example: Arefu, Lamplight, and others), why play it? That is the world the story takes place in, a very harsh and hostile place where some factions would kill you and loot your corpse as soon as look at you, that is the background that the main story takes place in, so? You didn't like it.
Just compaer FNV and Fo3.

-Okay, both are basically the same format and both use the same game engine and physics, just New Vegas has different stories and settings and shows what was learned from the initial Gamebryo based game title Fallout 3, ... the Obsidian team had the advantage of building on an already successful franchise, so?

Not only in the first one you have like 3x more quests, 3x more ways to complete them, but youre not forced to do almost anything. Hell, kill everyone, use robot to create own faction ignoring everyone. It's amazing? In Fo3? Yay, I can nuke BoS after being forced to help them. What retard created such sensless option? -

It is a senseless option only if the character steps out of the role they were given within the main story, but the game does provide a consequence of that action, ie., you would then be vilified by the BOS and you would no longer receive their help. Action and consequence. Same thing applies in F:NV
You DO NOT HAVE TO be on the side of the BOS in Fallout 3. If you want, you can enlist with the Enclave, or just become a wealthy recluse taking on bounties, you can play the game any way you want. Follow the main story, or not follow the main story, you choose. Follow the main story part way and play a whole bunch of quest mods, you choose. (Personally, I disagree with the BOS and agree with the Outcasts.)
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How you can not be on BoS side? You NEED to work for them, you NEED to destroy Enclave for them.. uh, seriously?
Just look at that article:
(especially choices, choices) Ah, a blog, basically another person's opinion about something from their viewpoint, hm, still doesn't apply to this topic or answer the question.
Because at the moment, you're completely ignoring the problem. There is a problem with the story?, Why is the Plot wrong? The Player character is cast in a specific role within the story, of course the Protagonist is fighting the Antagonist, that is what the story is about. Later, after you have played the story to its conclusion, will you be able to explore other options written by other people. The game engine allows for that, I don't see the problem, unless you just didn't like the initial story built using the Gamebryo engine?

Anyway, it really and truly does not matter if you did not like it or have an issue with the story, as the main question is, "Why is Fallout 3 so loved?" Again, I am not ignoring any problems at any moment, just giving my viewpoint as to why Fallout 3 and New Vegas are both Loved by such a large community of people.

And if you defend game because of mods... just say that core game sucks and modders are fixing it? Just that.
It's not how you're rating in game industry, basing on mod, not official work.
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Again, I am not ignoring the problem. I am just giving you the reasons why I think so many people Love Fallout 3, I do not deny that there may or may not be flaws to the original storyline. Fallout New Vegas may have a slightly different approach to their own Main Story lines, but they are essentially the same game engine with a couple of added gimmicks and scripting as in F:NV, (various ammunition types, companion wheel, etc.) that are used to tell completely different stories.

I also stated that the main reasons I choose a particular game title are based on the ability to modify the game any way I choose. Many do not seem to think that should be included in the main issue because the game mods are for free, ... to me that point is simply ridiculous as it is one of the primary reasons why I love the game, and more than likely, it is a deciding factor for many others as well.

"core game sucks and modders are fixing it? Just that."

I hate to point this out again, but the core game mechanics in both games are basically the same, and the essentials of story telling have always been the same. So, are game modders trying to fix the game or the story as told by the publisher? No, they are not, and they can not. They are expanding on the story setting based on the Fallout.exe and FNV.exe which are common to all who purchase the game titles. The only thing that changes is the content in the data folders, the executable and the basic file structures remain the same.

(Fallout:New Vegas use Steam, and Fallout 3 does not. IMHO, Steam makes things worse, but that is a personal opinion.)

Can you join the Enclave in the vanilla version?, no. But there is a game mod where you can. Basically at the "core" of the game series is a story plot that you did not enjoy and the game modifications do not, and can not ever, alter that. The game mods can ADD or EXPAND on the basic core of the game, which is a story being told in a very hostile setting, but they can not change that original story or its conclusion with out making it a total conversion mod, and then it just becomes a new story built with the Gamebryo engine.

Replayabilty? Again, without the GECK tool, that Bethesda published and made available to the community, there really isn't any point in playing the same story over and over again. Yet, because Bethesda made the modding tool available (for free) as part of the franchise, they encouraged the community to create new and different stories with the Gamebryo game engine, thereby adding immensely to its replay value. For me, you can not separate the two, else the game would really be sitting on a shelf gathering dust and I would not be here explaining the reasons why I Love the game and why so many others are drawn to it.

As for Role Playing, the words explain exactly what the term means. You are playing a role in a story setting. Just because you are cast in a specific role and need to follow the guide lines given that character within that role, does not mean that it is not role playing. In the the story provided in the game, You, the player, take on the role of protagonist, the Enclave and various factions play the role of antagonist. The antagonist sole purpose is to stop you from succeeding, in any way they can. Just because you disagree with the reasons and limited choices available to be able to step out of the primary role given the protagonist, does not negate the fact that you are intended to play a specific role within the game's plot line in order for a particular story to be told.

(imagine how hard it would be to write a story where the main character is fighting against you all the way and trying step out of the plot line, as a writer, I would end them and make up another.)

Consider that "role playing" is a derivation from Live Theater, You are the actor within a play written by the playwright, and you have lines that are spoken by your character and actions that must be performed by your character in order to move the plot along to its conclusion. That is what a "role" is. A quest is part of the main plot of a story in role playing games. You are given a set of goals, and you, the actor, cast in the role of the protagonist, must figure out how to achieve those goals within the confines of the game world and its rules. In a role playing game, the challenge is to explore the possibilities and environment of the world the main character lives in and to overcome the challenges presented by the story plot.

Then again, there is also no story or plot to follow after the story's conclusion, and you are left wandering around the DC wasteland aimlessly, ... not much of a role to play there, hence the encouragement from Bethesda to tell new stories by releasing the GECK tool, and the fan community has happily embraced that ability to tell new stories and provide the Player Character with new roles, new goals, and new worlds to explore.

The modding community does not try to "fix" the game engine (no matter what they claim)*, they can only apply "changes" to the original game engine that, in turn, allow it to run differently on different platforms. What they primarily do is allow more stories to be told in many different ways. The Fallout 3 game engine works well enough by itself to tell the primary Main story and the 5 ancillary stories provided later. You can also view the DLC content as more examples of how well the game's engine can be used to tell more stories. In them all, you play the "role" of protagonist, and the DLC stories provide you with new antagonists and new challenges (quests). This core function applies to both FO3 and F:NV

Complaining about the inability to sneak, or lockpick, or use basic stealth to overcome the specific challenges presented in the main story seems a bit "nitpicky", as you can definitely use those abilities within the game world environment. It is entirely up to you when and where those abilities should be applied. But to complain does not answer the main question presented in this topic: "Why is Fallout 3 so Loved?"

Using other games as comparisons does not work either, as you are just comparing apples and oranges. Other game franchises tell different stories using different game elements designed by different design studios and what those differences are and why one is better than another is not really the point here.

What Fallout is not, is a MMORPG, it is not multi-player. But even if it was, you would still need a basic story and background to drive the characters along and define the world they live in, they would still need to be given quests and challenges, otherwise they would just lose interest and beat each other up for fun. It would be chaos.

In role playing games, there have to be rules, there has to be a unifying structure, and there has to be a story to act out a role in. Fallout 3 and New Vegas provide those basic elements, and as story telling devices, along with the ability to role play within those stories, they work as well as any other on the market today. Judging from the amount of custom content available from the modding community, I would say that FO3 and NV are very successful and that has surely counted in their ratings today.

*In point of fact, the ratio of purported "game fixes" is a tiny handful compared to the sheer volume of additional props, characters, environments and yes, new stories and adventures that are currently available. But there are no game "fixes" that change the main story line or its conclusion in either game title.

In summary, to pick apart the reasons why someone thinks a particular game franchise is so Loved, and why they personally enjoy said game franchise, is just foolish. It's like someone telling you that you are wrong or an idiot to like hamburgers over hot dogs, or chocolate over vanilla pudding, or roses versus daisies.

But, how does that answer the primary question of the main topic?

It can not be denied that, Fallout 3 and New Vegas are, at heart, the Gamebryo engine which includes the use of the Havok physics engine, they are essentially the same in their core structures and are used to tell completely different stories in completely different ways. If you didn't like the way the specific game engine mechanics were employed to tell a specific story, well, ... that is a completely different topic.
 
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I wish I could have went to the launch party for Fallout 3. I read it was pretty cool and exclusive. Did anyone go?
 
BuffMaster >

I get the feeling that, according to your logic, even watching a movie is role playing. (The word "even" might even be removed from that sentence) Why bother creating a category named roleplaying, if you would include everything else, everything that doesn't involve defining your character and live with the consequences of your choices ? Did you ever roleplayed ?

About the mod stuff, you are basically defending the GECK. I am not modder, but sure, many mods could be done and many were made. But the GECK isn't Fallout 3, as the Unreal Engine isn't Unreal Tournament, or the Valve Modding tools aren't Half-Life. You might make a thread about the GECK if you want, but here we talk about Fo3. (not mentionning the fact that the two of the three plateform used for the games don't allow modding)

About the differences between FoNV & Fo3, there are the setting, the story, indeed, but FoNv also bring back the non-linearity of the stori(es), the C&C, the reputation system, the worldbuilding not only with logic, but with depth. Instead of a themepark with random stuff, it is a living world with various kind of people in relationships with each others. The Hardcore things might be a side content, but the focus in getting you involved gives the whole design a purpose that doesn't consist on making you the almighty Jack-all-trade trapped in a painfully linear plot, in which none he does matter, unlike Fo3.
 
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BuffHamster said:
Again, I am not ignoring the problem. I am just giving you the reasons why I think so many people Love Fallout 3, I do not deny that there may or may not be flaws to the original storyline, BUT that is not what this topic is about, now is it? (review thread title) Fallout New Vegas may have a slightly different approach to their own Main Story lines, but they are essentially the same game engine with a couple of added gimmicks and scripting as in F:NV, (various ammunition types, companion wheel, etc.) that are used to tell completely different stories.
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It's not story. it's different genre of quest.
for fo3, it's really a story, no more and no less than a linear story.
there are some braches of meaningless choices. but basically, it's just linear story.
but at NV, it's not story it's non-linear plot+non linear gameplay.

think about an RPG as a genre of collecting clue.
the difference between NV and fo3 is obvious
at fo3, what you do isjust following story line do whatever arrow and auto journal says and the world is saved
but at NV, you have to make decisions, choose some choices, etc.
it's like why many people like Gothic 3 while hate forsaken god.
while basic tools are same, game genre or gameplay itself is far much different.
BuffHamster said:
As for Role Playing, the words explain exactly what the term means. You are playing a role in a story setting. Just because you are cast in a specific role and need to follow the guide lines given that character within that role, does not mean that it is not role playing. In the the story provided in the game, You, the player, take on the role of protagonist, the Enclave and various factions play the role of antagonist. The antagonist sole purpose is to stop you from succeeding, in any way they can. Just because you disagree with the reasons and limited choices available to be able to step out of the primary role given the protagonist, does not negate the fact that you are intended to play a specific role within the game's plot line in order for a particular story to be told.
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CRPGs(both console or computer) are not basically about RP.
and name of RPG came from PnP games.
and role means role of master and role of player, not about being actor.
the ancesters of RPG like Wizardry, Ultima or Wastelands are not about role playing but about quest and dungeon.
they started from copying PnP not copying movies.

Some games like Fallout, Alpha protocol, Deus ex 2 tried to be a role playing game.
game itself plays role of master and player himsself plays role of player.
game itself gives situations to player to solve and player answer to that situation, that's what role playing means.
role playing of RPG isn't about playing role of antagonist as a actor.





 
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woo1108 said:
CRPGs(both console or computer) are not basically about RP.
and name of RPG came from PnP games.
and role means role of master and role of player, not about being actor.
the ancesters of RPG like Wizardry, Ultima or Wastelands are not about role playing but about quest and dungeon.
they started from copying PnP not copying movies.

Some games like Fallout, Alpha protocol, Deus ex 2 tried to be a role playing game.
game itself plays role of master and player himsself plays role of player.
game itself gives situations to player to solve and player answer to that situation, that's what role playing means.
role playing of RPG isn't about playing role of antagonist as a actor.
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Question: Let's say that you were asked to play a roleplaying game, set in Middle Earth, where the player is assigned Gandalf as the character; and the premise is made clear that the event's of the books are not fixed or guaranteed... (Meaning you can fail, and the NPCs can fail.)

First off, what's your first thought on that?

Second off, what are your thoughts on the notion that Gandalf (as opposed to an original character that you made yourself) could betray the fellowship, and or join Saruman, or even seek to usurp him under Sauron? Is it roleplaying to betray Bilbo or the other hobbits? To take the ring?

Is roleplaying extrapolating Gandalf, or deciding what to do with his powers and name?
 
First off, what's your first thought on that?
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Although I don't know and I don't have much interest in LotR, that sounds interesting.
Is roleplaying extrapolating Gandalf, or deciding what to do with his powers and name?
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I think it's latter. but I also think it's varies from person to person.
some people act like Gandalf even in game, and some people ignore Gandalf and do whatever he want with given situation.
 
Remember in the first post I made? I said that Fo3 and New Vegas was a mixture of Role play and First person shooter?

My point was to show how the game can be and is still so enthralling for many people. You do not have to be a mod author to enjoy it. You do not have to have the GECK to enjoy the vast amount of custom content available for both games, true? If only given the initial story, I might play it once or twice and then wait for Wasteland 2 or Fallout 4 to come out while the old Fo3 game sits on the shelf collecting dust.

Not only that, but there are a lot of people out there who do not use the GECK, nor do they make game mods, yet they collect the all game mods and play them to this day, so my point would be that the GECK is a reason why people still play the game today, and not why they should get the GECK and start mod making on their own, ... there is a really steep learning curve there.

As for the Unreal SDK, or the Source SDK2013, I don't buy those games for their software development tools, rather I buy them because the SDK's do exist for people to use and tell stories with. I will play the main story once or twice, then play all the mods available, and track the up and coming ones ... much enjoyment factor there. One game engine, hundreds of games, what a deal!! Having game mods available is a deciding factor for many people when they buy games.

As an example, look at Deus Ex:Human Revolution, bought it, played it twice, and now it sits on a shelf, collecting dust. Yeah, it was a good story, even a good game, good animation, good sound design, a bit linear in its approach, but NO GAME MODS, thhbbbt, off to the shelf it goes until the next one comes out. See what I mean?

As for watching a movie, and being the main character inside a movie, nope, two different experiences. I didn't use movies for that reason and instead chose Live Theater, like Broadway, as an example. Unlike movies where it will always have the same dialogue, lighting, and emotion, Live Theater is different as it may be the same play and have the same stage directions written out for it, but the "timelessness" of a Live performance is so different from one night to the next, ...been there, done that, for real.

True, Fallout 3 is a little more constrained and linear in its presentation of a story, but make no mistake, Fallout:New Vegas is also very much scripted, right down to the outcomes of all the choices a player can make. A writer, or group of writers wrote those stories and a group of programmers coded out all the scripts for both games. Just because one presents a story in a linear fashion and another presents it in a hodge podge, non linear fashion does not make one better than the other, just different. That is where personal preference comes in.

Also, I try to show how the games are primarily tools for story telling, and how role playing was at their core design. I did play both games in their vanilla fashion from beginning to end, and were it not for game mods and the role playing ability that they both offered, they would sit on the shelf today, collecting dust.

I really didn't think one story was better than another, but the game play within each was enjoyable from different perspectives. I thought of Fo3 as an introduction to the basic game mechanics and viewed F:NV as a different outgrowth of the Fallout story settings. What I did try to do was explain why Fo3 was enjoyed by so many people, as the topic title suggests. was that wrong?

I know there is another topic specifically for the viewpoint that the game sucked, but I don't have much to say about that as I really did enjoy both titles for their role playing flavor, not based on their style of story telling.

Anyway, it is apparent that many people do not have nor have played table top Role Playing Games like D&D or Traveller, but at the very least, I have given my reasons as related by the topic title, and have provided a personal viewpoint of why I think people enjoy them. At the very least, I have provided food for thought about what makes a great game that is "replayable", and what gets played once or twice and then sits on a shelf collecting dust.

Oh, if you hate linear game play, then AQFH is definitely not your cup of tea, as the overarching story is quite linear, epic and many hours of game play, and some difficult puzzles and challenges, but the story is still quite linear. Does that make it bad? No, just different.

Oh, and the Player has to work with the Enclave, or at least get directions from an Enclave Intelligence Officer, starting in chapter 2 and through out chapter 3, hence the Enclave armor and weapons.
 
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As an example, look at Deus Ex:Human Revolution, bought it, played it twice, and now it sits on a shelf, collecting dust. Yeah, it was a good story, even a good game, good animation, good sound design, a bit linear in its approach, but NO GAME MODS, thhbbbt, off to the shelf it goes until the next one comes out. See what I mean?
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It's no argument.
I played Fallout 2 for almost 800h in last 6 years using only Restoration Project...
http://classic.xfire.com/profile/taisho666/

And thanks to others for explaining my point, even better than I could.
 
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Oh, if you hate linear game play, then AQFH is definitely not your cup of tea, as the overarching story is quite linear, epic and many hours of game play, and some difficult puzzles and challenges, but the story is still quite linear. Does that make it bad? No, just different.
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the problems are, it has name of Fallout, labled as RPG, advertised as WRPG and it's ancester is Daggerfall and Morrowind.
I don't hate linear games but just hate fo3 for various reasons.

well, mods are might be good points of games.
but for me, they are just look like pile of junk metals.
some looks good but mostly looks ugly.

there are only two kind of worthy mods: fixing(Jsawyer or NV, community patch of Gothic 3, RP mod of Fallout 2 and other various fixing mods) or making new( Netural selection, Stanly parable, Dayz, Counter strike, etc.
others are just adding junks or making game a porn.

and replayablility isn't that important.
while it's kind of good point of Fallout series, it's not important.
I know all the tricks and plots why should I replay it?
replaying is just nothing more than bonus feature.
it should not be standard of RPG.
 
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Languorous_Maiar said:
As an example, look at Deus Ex:Human Revolution, bought it, played it twice, and now it sits on a shelf, collecting dust. Yeah, it was a good story, even a good game, good animation, good sound design, a bit linear in its approach, but NO GAME MODS, thhbbbt, off to the shelf it goes until the next one comes out. See what I mean?
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It's no argument.
I played Fallout 2 for almost 800h in last 6 years using only Restoration Project...
http://classic.xfire.com/profile/taisho666/

And thanks to others for explaining my point, even better than I could.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if the F2RP is a fine example of playing without mods, with all due respect. It had a singularly long iteration/update history for a player-made mod, and it added (rather, restored) new content to the game all the time. It was almost like a Fallout 2 DLC subscription service. (And I say was only because, for the time being, it's supposedly finished. If Killap or the RP adherents suddenly decide to deliver a new round of restored or refined content, it won't be the first time the project has been brought out of retirement.)

As to the rest, I don't have time for a point-by-point breakdown of all the text walls, but could we tone it down on the snideness and veiled personal insults? This is a thread for opinions, and they're being delivered. I know that many of us here agree that Fallout 3 is a good (or at least enjoyable) game, even if mods have to be involved, but that it's not a great roleplaying experience in the traditional sense and certainly not a good example of Fallout. This discussion is about exploring another viewpoint, and as was laid out right in the first post, contrarianism isn't sought or welcome. We have plenty of posts for picking apart Fallout 3.
 
woo1108 said:
BuffHamster said:
Again, I am not ignoring the problem. I am just giving you the reasons why I think so many people Love Fallout 3, I do not deny that there may or may not be flaws to the original storyline, BUT that is not what this topic is about, now is it? (review thread title) Fallout New Vegas may have a slightly different approach to their own Main Story lines, but they are essentially the same game engine with a couple of added gimmicks and scripting as in F:NV, (various ammunition types, companion wheel, etc.) that are used to tell completely different stories.
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It's not story. it's different genre of quest.
for fo3, it's really a story, no more and no less than a linear story.
there are some braches of meaningless choices. but basically, it's just linear story.
but at NV, it's not story it's non-linear plot+non linear gameplay.

think about an RPG as a genre of collecting clue.
the difference between NV and fo3 is obvious
at fo3, what you do isjust following story line do whatever arrow and auto journal says and the world is saved
but at NV, you have to make decisions, choose some choices, etc.
it's like why many people like Gothic 3 while hate forsaken god.
while basic tools are same, game genre or gameplay itself is far much different.
BuffHamster said:
As for Role Playing, the words explain exactly what the term means. You are playing a role in a story setting. Just because you are cast in a specific role and need to follow the guide lines given that character within that role, does not mean that it is not role playing. In the the story provided in the game, You, the player, take on the role of protagonist, the Enclave and various factions play the role of antagonist. The antagonist sole purpose is to stop you from succeeding, in any way they can. Just because you disagree with the reasons and limited choices available to be able to step out of the primary role given the protagonist, does not negate the fact that you are intended to play a specific role within the game's plot line in order for a particular story to be told.
Click to expand...

CRPGs(both console or computer) are not basically about RP.
and name of RPG came from PnP games.
and role means role of master and role of player, not about being actor.
the ancesters of RPG like Wizardry, Ultima or Wastelands are not about role playing but about quest and dungeon.
they started from copying PnP not copying movies.

Some games like Fallout, Alpha protocol, Deus ex 2 tried to be a role playing game.
game itself plays role of master and player himsself plays role of player.
game itself gives situations to player to solve and player answer to that situation, that's what role playing means.
role playing of RPG isn't about playing role of antagonist as a actor.
Click to expand...


Oh I concede as far as any computer game being being able to replicate a true Role Playing game experience, they can not due to the limitations of the hardware and software, and yes, Fo3 was a more linear story than New Vegas, actually, I do not deny that, but that isn't what makes them great games now, is it? and again it is not the real point at all.

But having an infinite number of choices in a game or story still does not define role playing.

It can be said that in all computer games, you are playing a role, be it commander of a huge fleet, a mayor of a city, a ruler of a stellar empire, or just some schmuck born into a violent apocalyptic world, you take on the role given or chosen by the game author and follow the story line, and whether the story being told is linear or not, you are still playing a role.

In F:NV you take on the role of a courier shot in the head and left for dead and the driving impetus of the story is finding who, what and why and extracting those answers, the fact that the main character gets caught up in events not pertinent to his original motivation just describes several outcomes of the same story, finding out who shot you, why he shot you, extracting some justice, and from there you are given a few limited choices as to what faction you want to belong to afterwards, it is just a role, same as the other story, just more complex with multiple endings to the same story. It is still a ROLE that you as a gamer player play.

In their own fashion computer games can give you some of the elements of role playing in varying degrees of complexity, while holding you to some sort of structure. But the Fallout 3 game structure still lends itself to being able to tell more stories in the Fallout setting and contains more elements of the Role Playing genre than the original Fallout 1 and 2 ever did. Now those were linear stories with even less choices available to the player. Fallout 3 just followed the same template and Fallout New Vegas expanded on it by presenting a more complex story. But remember, I did say that the game is a blend, or mixture of Role Playing and First person shooter type of game, including New Vegas.

Even so, Fallout 3 was not intended to be a "role playing" game per se even though it contains the elements of one. It was primarily meant to be an adventure story with elements of both the first person shooter genre and role playing genre. Fallout:New Vegas lends itself to more emphasis on the role playing aspect inherent in the original game engine. This does not define what is good or bad, just different.

Again, you can argue the details of what games offer more choices to the lead role and which give you less choices, which games give you a more linear story structure and which games give you a non linear story, the games are still a form of role playing. And it still is a personal preference of what type of format you prefer, therefor no answer can be wrong.

And again, that still does not explain why a particular game is loved or reviled, does it? Which is my point.



 
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Well, I'm just complaining about story and combat make people forgot what was RPG(it's not RP at all!).

maybe it's kind of hitting strawman.
but I want to make one thing clear: yes, the reasons you said are make sense. and you are doing right thing to why fo3 is loved.

and one more thing, in RPG( I mean not JRPGs nor pseudo CRPGs), story which means fixed plots are actually not important at all.
NV is called a good RPG not because it has good story but good game play of solving quest.
 
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Fine, you don't mistake roleplaying with movies, but with theater, something that is the opposite of roleplaying.
By roleplaying, you take the decision, you play how you want YOUR character and the gamemaster provides you the consequence. You not repeating the same lines over and over. If you consider theater as roleplaying, then everything else is roleplayer. A FPS that allow stealth is roleplaying for you.

About the modding, i repeat that you are mostly defending gamebryo/GECK. At best, you give us a reason of why you bought it, as you end up having more games that the vanilla game, but it doesn't make the vanilla game any better/worse.

About linear/non linear stories, nobody blame you if you prefer linear stories. We mention this to emphasis on the core differences between Fo3 & FoNV, on one hand, and the betrayal of the core principles of the Fallout series on the other hand.

Also, in FoNV YOU defines your own character after the basic premise. After that, you could choose to look for Benny/The Platinium Chip, to look for answers, to get revenge, to get back the Platinium chip and deliver it to your client, by cheer curiosity or just randomly end up meeting those. You might even not meet Benny/The Chip if you follow the NCR questline. Then, you might want to choose who's better to handle the Wasteland, cause chaos, screw everyone, or take the leadership on your own. You get the define the very meaning of your path, and have questline and outcomes that fits to those intents. You aren't forced to help X agains't Y to activate Macguffin Z to save land W.
 
Well Yamu, I don't consider mods that are fixing the game to be classic mods. I just can't play Arcanum/Torment/Gothic3/Fallout 2/Vampire Masquerade and more without those "fan patches" like Killan work.
If some mod is adding some non-deleted by developers factions, changing story completely or adding some new magic solutions and so... then it's more than just fan patch. ;p

Fallout 3 and New Vegas for example, are completely playable and not broken, if played only with official releases. Most bugs comes from engine, which can't be even fixed by mods.
 
Yamu : I sincerely apologize for the text walls, my bad. I will try to be brief.

naossano : "with theater, something that is the opposite of roleplaying" I heartily disagree, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing

In theater we were taught to role play all the time for stage productions. As an example, you could take a play written in a serious tone and perform it in a completely "camp" tone thereby making it into a humorous farce through role play. Role Play is a derivation from theater, fact.

For many the strict definition of what a pencil and paper or computer role playing game is and what it should be can be held as a personal opinion. I have nothing against that. The publicly accepted definition is still found to be: "the player controls the actions of a protagonist (or several adventuring party members) immersed in a fictional world." from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_video_game
(See also "Story and Setting" on the same page.)

Fallout 3 was cast into a sub-genre called "Action role-playing games", or as I said before, a mixture of Role Play and First Person Adventure. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout_3

I am sure many have read that article already and may agree or disagree with it's presumptions, but the general game buying public does not care, to them, the game gives them a "taste", if you will, of a computer game that has elements of Role Play, Science Fiction, and Adventure. At the time of its release, it was as good as it gets for the revived Fallout setting franchise, hence its immense popularity.

"i repeat that you are mostly defending gamebryo/GECK." It may seem that way, but I am not really defending the GECK tool or the modding community, just pointing out that it may be a big part of the reason why many people buy the title today and why many people still play it.

I still say, that it is the game modification community that keeps many games popular long after most games disappear or are relegated to the discount rack, and that is not defending the GECK or game modding in general, it is a statement of fact.

Game modifications are part and parcel of a game's continued popularity. The GECK tool was released specifically for that reason, to generate continued sales. This has little to do with the personal reasons why I bought the game, and is more about why people still buy the game. This is a fact of life for game publishers.
 
Technically Roleplaying is an empathic exercise. A dog trainer might ask the owner to think a minute, and try to imagine their dog's experience of being yanked around roughly by the neck; to try to explain to the person why their dog is fine with others walking him, but doesn't like being walked by them at all.

An RPG with a detailed character ~whether user made or developer assigned, is not there as a costume, the player is tasked to imagine the character [by what they know of them], to choose what they would do in a given situation; but more importantly to be restricted to what they actually can do in the situation. In the case of the former, it means that if the PC is a lawful [good] paladin ~for instance, then the player should wait until they are playing a psychotic menace of a PC, before choosing to slaughter a hobbit village for not bringing them Wine & Cheese when demanded... It's not just that it's out of character for the Paladin, but it's also not content that they are supposed to have access to while playing a lawful good paladin. :shrug:

*This doesn't preclude the warrior-saint going crazy and slaughtering the village in a mold induced intoxicated rampage [from really off cheese], but that is something that would likely cause the character to exile themselves from the paladin class once they sobered up. It's all about 'how would this individual react'... If the paladin was truly of the thought that hobbits were "soul-less animals", then perhaps that guy could delude himself that it was not a crime but retribution against a perceived attempt at food poisoning ~even if untrue and they hadn't wished him harm. Good guys can be crazy, but that should be part of the character's personality, not player whim on the spur of the moment.
 
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