Why is no one talking about the Watchmen trailer?

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Bodybag, Jul 19, 2008.

  1. Gentlemen

    Gentlemen Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Sep 24, 2008
    Why is the squid unfilmable? Just green screen in the fucking psychic squid. I'm pretty sure the audience can figure out what the hell it does.
  2. Rev. Layle

    Rev. Layle A Smooth-Skin

    Jul 26, 2005
    Methinks you give audiences too much credit :)
  3. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    They really only have to show what it did. Less is more.
  4. Seymour the spore plant

    Seymour the spore plant Still Mildly Glowing

    Mar 5, 2008
    I actually think the squid is a weak link in the comic: it's the only time psychic abilities are mentioned in the Watchmen universe and the only instance of "superpowers" of sorts aside from Doc Manhattan's, which seems something of an afterthought to me. Still, it was the way the ending was conceived, and I don't think anyone's entitled to rewrite it. Even a work's creator sometimes fucks it up with revisions - George Lucas and Spielberg with their endless doublethinking of their movies, for an instance. Greedo shot first my ass.

    They're ok, nothing exceptional though. Frank Miller has kind of gone batshit insane since his glory days with The Dark Knight Returns (which he soiled with TDK Strikes Again, by the way). Nowadays he seems to only be able to write badass guys being badass and uncompromising. Hell, his upcoming Spirit "adaptation" (an impossibly loose usage of the term here) almost makes me glad they fucked up his 300.

    Still, I think it's the best point of comparison, since Robert Rodriguez did exactly what Snyder claims to do; using the comic as a bible for his movie.

    Yeah, now that you mention it I recall The Shining having some major changes to the ending, been a long time since I read it though. Still, don't recall any such alterations to the other two, even if A Clockwork Orange followed the american release of the book instead of the original and so cut the ending.
  5. Stag

    Stag Guest

    I've heard tell that basically the reason the squid won't be in the movie is because they're cutting out the whole island of artists...

    Well, fuck.
  6. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    There you go. It isn't a remake or a re-invisioning of the original, it's an adaptation. The squid adds nothing, it requires a lot of time to explain, and time is the limiting factor in the chosen medium. So why not cut it?
    The general message and spirit of the movie of A Clockwork Orange was significantly different from the book.
    The Shining was so different that the author distanced himself from the movie and later endorsed another, more accurate movie.
    I'm unsure as to the differences between the film and book version of the Silence of the Lambs.

    What did the Island add to the story thematically? In my opinion, it was basically filler. There was no reason why you couldn't replace that stuff with something else.
  7. Stag

    Stag Guest

    They're not replacing it, though, afaik. They just decided it would take to long and without it the squid wouldn't make sense, so they're just throwing in nuclear lasers or some shit.

    While I don't think the artists' island was the greatest part of the story, I really like the idea of Veidt using a group of artists to create his final solution. Juxtaposition of art at odds with Veidt's cold intellect, the little moment on the ship; I mean, while yeah, it's not an essential part of the plot, it still provides a lot of good moments and it does nothing to hinder the storytelling.
  8. Seymour the spore plant

    Seymour the spore plant Still Mildly Glowing

    Mar 5, 2008
    Cutting stuff out to save time I'm not viscerally opposed to. Tom Bombadil, for an instance, or the painstakingly thorough descriptions of yuppies' clothing that dragged on for pages in American Psycho; the first was very much a side-story to fit an old character, the latter was just characterization that made it pretty intact to the movie. The thing is, the squid is impossible to just cut out without a replacement, and so the rewriting kicks in. Also,

    According to the rumours, they are indeed.
    [spoiler:18bb1064d4]Veidt builds a machine that simulates Doctor Manhattan's powers and blows up I think a couple of cities around the globe. Dan witnesses Jon killing Rorschach only God knows why, and Jon exiles himself to keep world peace.[/spoiler:18bb1064d4]
  9. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Watchmen saturday morning cartoon

    First of all, don't worry, its a parody.

    I couldn't find the Watchmen movie thread so I am making a new one for this.

    Just found it on Youtube.


    Cartoon producers would honestly have done that in the 80's if they had the opportunity.
  10. Eyenixon

    Eyenixon Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 11, 2008
    I like how it subtly spoils a major plot point if you just look closely at a certain scene.
  11. Stag

    Stag Guest

    That is the single funniest thing ever made in the history of things being funny.


  12. Pablosdog

    Pablosdog Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Oct 30, 2007
    i think its a genius juxtaposition of the cheesiness of saturday morning cartoons with the super seriousness of alan moore's work
  13. rcorporon

    rcorporon So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Jan 31, 2008
    I liked Rorsharch with the dogs :).
  14. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    Watched it, relatively good.

    I have just one really major gripe with the movie (and no, it isn't the lack of squid, the squid is impossible to fit in without making it look like a really stupid joke in a movie of 2-and-a-half hours). The major gripe I have with the movie is its inconsistent tone. While it is really dark and serious throughout, there are occasional moments where it turns its attention to stupid jokes that don't fit the movie. Added to that there's the really bad musical direction.
    Usually the music is somewhat subdued, but at times it just blasts popular songs and completely out of tone music. The Comedian's funeral is accompanied by Simon & Garfunkel's 'The Sound of Silence' on full blast. The approach to Karnak is accompanied by a standard upbeat musical piece. It's just really stupid and ruins the atmosphere by going for standard comic-style atmosphere, instead of the dark and realistic atmosphere that permeates the rest of the movie.

    Minor gripes are Laurie/Silk Spectre II, who I felt was really badly acted. Dr Manhattan's schlong that was unnecessarily everpresent, Nixon's huge, comical nose which made him look much more like a parody rather than serious character

    Okay, so the good:
    Visually, it's excellent.
    Most of the novel is actually intact, a lot of exposition is left in, and those things that are cut out don't seem to be that needed. I'm unsure how easy it is to follow if you haven't read the comic, though. My girlfriend felt it was too confusing as a 2.5 hour movie, and she's probably right given the amount of different plots that are running.
    The only really major cut was the lack of squid. Its replacement isn't that great, but it's adequate.

    The acting was really good (apart from Laurie and Nixon), especially Rorschach.

    Conclusion: sure, it isn't Watchmen, but this is about as close to Watchmen a movie can get and it's nowhere near as bad as the doomsayers think it is.
  15. rcorporon

    rcorporon So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Jan 31, 2008
    What did they use instead of the squid?

    If it was "nuclear beams" or some nonsense, how do they explain that the US would simply have blamed the USSR, thus defeating the entire purpose of Veidt's plan.
  16. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    [spoiler:f3f1da7f65]They set it up so that it looks like Dr Manhattan did it, using his 'energy signature' or something like that. They also simultaneously destroy New York, Hong Kong, Moscow and LA (I think). So the USA doesn't go 'It's the USSR' or the other way around, they go 'It's Dr Manhattan!'
    No, not the greatest explanation, but it's not as bad as many of the rumours either. The main idea of the squid was always an external attacker, which they preserved.[/spoiler:f3f1da7f65]
  17. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    [spoiler:67ede974a2]If the squid was such a bad idea, couldn't they have made it something from a Lovecraft story, rather than suddenly turn Dr Manhattan into a villain?
    And how long would that remain effective, I could see the USSR and other countries blame the US for failing to control him.[/spoiler:67ede974a2]
  18. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    [spoiler:070326213c]Dr. Manhattan isn't a villain in the movie and doesn't actually destroy any cities himself. [/spoiler:070326213c]
  19. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I know Sander.

    [spoiler:c8973e138d]The thing I have with it is that people apparently so quickly fall for Veidt's altered scheme to think Dr Manhattan has turned into a destructive monster, instead of the "This Island Earth" in which people thought they were attacked by an alien invader, hence turned aside their conflict with another to unite against any future invasions.[/spoiler:c8973e138d]
  20. analord

    analord It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Jun 18, 2007
    On the plus side she looks a lot like Laury.

    [spoiler:e6312c6af9]The main problem I see is with the writing. For one, they omitted Silk Spectre's antipathy toward her father, making her psychological break down not make any sense.

    Then there's fucking Ozymandius. His part is completely f'd in the translation. There is no more ambiguity at all.

    I don't want to go on a rant. Long story short, the writing fucked up the dynamic of the characters.


    Arbitrary changes.

    If I was Alan Moore I'd be pissed.