Why Mothership Zeta is awesome

[CT Phipps]

It would be easy to ignore were it not for the treatment of aliens as fully canon ever since (wikis for instance don't treat the aliens like easter eggs like they used to) and FO3 GOTY edition downloads Zeta in by default so not downloading it is no longer an option.

Personally, I couldn't care less about Zeta but I do see the issues of Zeta on the franchise as a whole and the potential issues of its inclusion in canon even if it is ignored (Bethesda'll probably resort to the aliens if it runs out of ideas).

Like I said, is canon really that important? It's all made up licensing anyway.

 

[CerberusGate]

Like I said, is canon really that important? It's all made up licensing anyway.

As you can tell by various posts here and IIRC elsewhere, it does matter.

Plus knowing what is definitely canon and non-canon helps future writers and Wiki authors.

 

[CT Phipps]

Eh well, to each their own.

For me, the question should be:

1. Is it fun?

2. Is it pretty?

 

[Norzan]

Norzan, why do you care so much about a story a bunch of dumbasses slapped together in 10 minutes at Bethesda Softworks? You have clearly put infinitely more thought into this topic than any of those clowns ever did. If you hate the new Fallouts so much, just do what I do with the Star Wars prequels and pretend like they don't exist. It's literally not worth your mental energy.

But these things are canon. Every time i think about the lore, i have to remember that aliens are god damn canon. Not to mention the implication of them being involved in a major event in the Fallout universe.

I can't pretend they don't exist. They exist and they are so stupid. When the devs of the first two games MOCK you for making an element that was not canon into actually canon, you fucked up bad.

Bethesda continued this "aliens exist" with the Cabbot House in Fallout 4. They didn't forget, they just made it worse.

 

[CT Phipps]

But these things are canon. Every time i think about the lore, i have to remember that aliens are god damn canon. Not to mention the implication of them being involved in a major event in the Fallout universe.

I can't pretend they don't exist. They exist and they are so stupid. When the devs of the first two games MOCK you for making an element that was not canon into actually canon, you fucked up bad.

Canon to Bethesda. Not canon to the original series. It's not an actual religion just licensed product.

Also, if you think Bethesda is invested in the Zetans, you're fooling yourself.

They're just a fun spin off and anyone who thinks otherwise missed the fact they don't appear anywhere in Fallout 4 or outside of the DLC.

 

[Norzan]

Canon to Bethesda. Not canon to the original series. It's not an actual religion just licensed product.

Also, if you think Bethesda is invested in the Zetans, you're fooling yourself.

They're just a fun spin off and anyone who thinks otherwise missed the fact they don't appear anywhere in Fallout 4 or outside of the DLC.

That's not how it works. It's canon to Fallout, not to Bethesda, Bethesda owns the rights to the franchise. Whatever Bethesda writes, either bad or good, is canon. Quit trying to justify the existence of this crap with nonsensical arguments like this one.

This "missing the point" crap you keep spewing doesn't work with me. You can like this shit DLC all you want but you are not gonna convince me of anything.

 

[CT Phipps]

That's not how it works. It's canon to Fallout, not to Bethesda, Bethesda owns the rights to the franchise. Whatever Bethesda writes, either bad or good, is canon. Quit trying to justify the existence of this crap with nonsensical arguments like this one.

This "missing the point" crap you keep spewing doesn't work with me. You can like this shit DLC all you want but you are not gonna convince me of anything.

I used to have this sort of opinion in my teenage years and my college. I would have totally agreed with you but that was before things like Star Wars retconned out the entirety of the Legends line as well as DC destroying their universe again. The Bethesda universe is entirely different from the Fallout Interplay universe and both of them are different from the Tactics universe. Canon is really just a determination of what's true to a specific incarnation of a franchise and that's easily changed with just a pen.

It doesn't mean anything because it's all fictional stories. I can guarantee you Bethesda doesn't care about canon but just making fun games so I'm not refuting you, just saying you should take it with the same attitude as Cole fighting vampires in Infamous, the Jiang Shi in Sleeping Dogs, or the Zombie Mode of Red Dead Redemption.

Yeah, if you want it to be canon, you can and if you don't you don't have to. It's a fun silly romp like Old World Blues.

 

[Norzan]

Except Bethesda CURRENTLY considers this paid DLC as canon. You can't put plug your ears, close your eyes and pretend is not canon. It is canon and it is until Bethesda says otherwise. I've seen this argument being spewed every now and then and it makes no sense.

Old World Blues is actually good and actually funny. Mothershit Zeta is a nonsensical mess that is completely unfunny.

And no, i'm not gonna call this PAID CANON DLC as a "fun little romp" and leave it at that. I'm done with this argument anyway.

 

[CT Phipps]

Except Bethesda CURRENTLY considers this paid DLC as a canon. You can't put plug your ears, close your eyes and pretend is not canon. It is canon and it is until Bethesda says otherwise. I've seen this argument being spewed every now and then and it makes no sense.

Old World Blues is actually good and actually funny. Mothershit Zeta is a nonsensical mess that is completely unfunny.

And no, i'm not gonna call this PAID CANON DLC as a "fun little romp" and leave it at that. I'm done with this argument anyway.

Yes you can because Fallout 3 is fictional. But I love Mothership Zeta and I suspect that's the big difference here.

 

[TerminallyChill]

Except Bethesda CURRENTLY considers this paid DLC as canon. You can't put plug your ears, close your eyes and pretend is not canon. It is canon and it is until Bethesda says otherwise.

Jesus, why would you let a company you clearly hate have this kind of power over you? Fuck those boners. I don't give a shit what Bethesda bought or writes. They can put fucking elves and warlocks into Fallout 5 for all I care. Fallout, Fallout 2, and New Vegas are the real Fallout games to me. It's just a name somebody paid for the rights to. You act as though Tim Cain swooped in, destroyed everyone's copy of Fallout, and then declared Todd Howard as the irrefutable god of everything.

I don't subscribe to that corporate branding bullshit.

 

[Norzan]

Jesus, why would you let a company you clearly hate have this kind of this of power over you? Fuck those boners. I don't give a shit what Bethesda bought or writes. They can put fucking elves and warlocks into Fallout 5 for all I care. Fallout, Fallout 2, and New Vegas are the real Fallout games to me. It's just a name somebody paid for the rights to. You act as though Tim Cain swooped in, destroyed everyone's copy of Fallout, and then declared Todd Howard is the irrefutable god of everything.

I don't subscribe to that corporate branding bullshit.

Because that's how it is. I can pretend all i want that Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas are the only Fallout games that exist, but Fallout 3 and 4 exist. And i have to accept they exist, no matter how hard i don't want to.

So i'm gonna bitch about it. And if you don't like it, you can bite my shiny metal ass.

 

[Risewild]

Jesus, why would you let a company you clearly hate have this kind of this of power over you? Fuck those boners. I don't give a shit what Bethesda bought or writes.

Yes you can because Fallout 3 is fictional. But I love Mothership Zeta and I suspect that's the big difference here.

You should stop trying to tell others what is important for them in a game series.
Specially in a game series that took lore and canon so seriously, that the devs made an entire "bible" with several erratas and additions to clarify and correct wrong and broken lore and canon in their games.

Fallout was made for adults that enjoy things that make sense, there might be funny things mixed in, but the world consistency was always important. Fallout is also supposed to be a cRPG series. cRPGS are one of the genre where lore and "canonicity" are very important for players.

Try and tell an old The Elder Scrolls fan that since Skyrim and Oblivion are fun, that the destruction of canon and lore doesn't matter. Try to tell old Star Wars fans the same, or Star Trek, or Teenage Mutants Ninja Turtles, or any series with plenty of fans where developers/writers change the canon for no good reason at all.

I used to love Fallout lore and canon. I read the Fallout Bible several times in the past. But to be honest, Fallout is dead and buried now. And I don't care what Bethesda does with it at all. They can make the world be swolled by a demon army for all I care .

But people saying to others that they are wrong because they care for something that used to be very important in a series, are just being immature. Different people hold different things important. So don't go bashing others that care about stuff you don't care about.

 

[TerminallyChill]

Fallout was made for adults that enjoy thins that make sense, there might be funny things mixed in, but the world consistency was always important. Fallout is also supposed to be a cRPG series. cRPGS are one of the genre where lore and "canonicity" are very important for players.

Try and tell an old The Elder Scrolls fan that since Skyrim and Oblivion are fun, that the destruction of canon and lore doesn't matter. Try to tell old Star Wars fans the same, of Star Trek, or Teenage Mutants Ninja Turtles, or any series with plenty of fans where developers/writers change the canon for no good reason at all.

I've been there with multiple franchises, and I never once said that deviating from the story doesn't matter. Remember how New Vegas's theme was about letting go though? I took that as a hint.

But people saying to others that they are wrong because they care for something that used to be very important in a series, are just being immature. Different people hold different things important. So don't go bashing others that care about stuff you don't care about.

This conversation literally started because people obsessing about the narrative were shitting on people discussing gameplay. I get where you're coming from though. I'll shut up now.

 

[Norzan]

But if i'm gonna be honest, i don't care what Bethesda does either with the series. So i'm not gonna even buy any new Fallout games.

I think one of the reasons why i complain so much about Fallout 3 is that i wasted my earned cash on it. I wasted cash on a such terrible game. And this just exacerbates everything.

 

[Risewild]

This conversation literally started because people obsessing about the narrative were shitting on people discussing gameplay. I get where you're coming from though. I'll shut up now.

It actually started with the opposite. When people who enjoy gameplay started shitting on people who enjoy lore and canon .
Calling them, out of nowhere, Lore Nazis and saying they treat Fallout Fallout like Schindler's List:

Some of the lore Nazis might disagree, but I tend not to treat Fallout like Schindler's List.

Note: This is a not to be an insult post or anything, I just think it is funny to point out these things. But I do understand someone might think I am posting with the intent to insult, which I am not.

 

[CT Phipps]

The thing about the Bible is it's been wholly contradicted.

Despite the fact the Bible is "canon"

so which is canon?

I feel like you have to choose and that choice is what's important. Then again, I went to 12 years of Catholic school as a Prebyterian.

 

[TerminallyChill]

@Risewild

I was talking about the reaction to CT Phipps's original post. You know, where like 17+ people decided to tell him he was retarded for enjoying Mothership Zeta as a Fallout 3 dungeon because it ruins the story.

 

[Risewild]

The thing about the Bible is it's been wholly contradicted.

Despite the fact the Bible is "canon"

so which is canon?

I feel like you have to choose and that choice is what's important. Then again, I went to 12 years of Catholic school as a Prebyterian.

The Fallout Bible was canon and it is still considered canon by Bethesda. They (both Todd and Emil) said so, Emil even said he read it several times and even slept with the Fallout Bible under his pillow while he was writing Fallout 3.

Not to mention there are things in Fallout 3 that were only mentioned in the Fallout Bible before, which shows that yes, the Fallout Bible is canon for Bethesda.
They even said Fallout Tactics is canon too with small exceptions like the BoS origin, some real world weapons and other little things.
Where does the Fallout bible gets wholly contradicted, that it makes it not canon all of a sudden?

 

[TerminallyChill]

I thought he was talking about the like, actual Bible.

 

[CerberusGate]

The thing about the Bible is it's been wholly contradicted.

Despite the fact the Bible is "canon"

so which is canon?

I feel like you have to choose and that choice is what's important. Then again, I went to 12 years of Catholic school as a Prebyterian.

Actually, the FO bible is in a state of Schrodinger's canon. Whatever Bethesda wants to make canon will be canon and whatever is not will be in a state of uncertain canoncity until explicitly stated to be non-canon, like how Fallout BoS is not canon. There are stuff in 3 that relies on the bible.

Plus wikis have cited points by Beth that they regard stuff from the Bible as canon along with stuff they explicitly don't count as canon: https://fallout.gamepedia.com/Fallout_canon
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/fallout-3/800771p1.html

Todd Howard: "For our purposes, neither Fallout Tactics nor Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel happened."