Why Mothership Zeta is awesome

[TerminallyChill]

Sorry I triggered you, dude. I didn't mean to start shit. I wasn't even referring to you in the original post.

 

[Norzan]

Not triggered, just pissed (there's a difference, yes).

You think i want to hate this game like i do? I wish i could scream to the mountain tops how great this game is. You think i bitch and moan at this game because i want to be part of the "cool kids"? I don't. This game just did too many stupid things to make me to able to give it credit for anything.

Even if i find anything redeemable about this game, it's too small. It doesn't improve anything, it doesn't make the overall picture any better. And believe me, i tried to find anything redeemable to make this game any better.

I wasn't even referring to you in the original post.

Even if it wasn't directed at me directly, it was directed at people like me that like lore consistency and get pissed when stupid crap like this DLC happens.

 

[CT Phipps]

If I may jump in, @Norzan

I'd argue the problem isn't that I'm jumping in to defend Fallout 3 and searching for things to compliment Mothership Zeta about. I don't think I have to because I don't take it seriously but it's not me trying to crap on the people who DO take the lore seriously. In fact, I think there's a generational gap between games that's causing the disconnect between me and the rest of the group. It's not the gap between Fallout 1 and 2 and Fallout 3, though.

It's the fact "my" Fallout is not Fallout. It's Fallout 2.

I...honestly find Fallout 1 boring as fuck and I don't care for the world, the characters, the lore, the villain, or the setting. intellectually, I can appreciate the mammoth effort which went into the game but I hate the Master and only liked the Junkyard mission for contrast.

I feel like Fallout 2 is manifestly superior in every way. The thing is, Fallout 2 is a semi-serious world that benefits from the tongue firmly in cheek. I fought aliens in the bottom of a freighter, I love the fact the Scientologists are a faction that survived as well as thrived in the Wasteland, I adore the giant Darth Vader-esque villain, and the fact there's Sentient Deathclaws as a major faction.

With this attitude, I appreciate Mothership Zeta as an excellent diversion from Fallout 3's Capital Wasteland and a fun B-movie-esque game.

Like my favorite Fallout New Vegas DLC set in the Big Empty, Old World Blues.

 

[Norzan]

I actually like Old World Blues and it's very zany and wacky. But i far as i know, it didn't break the lore in any major way. It didn't made an easter egg into an actual canon thing and have that thing actually influence one of the major events in the Fallout universe.

As far as i know, it explained how animals like Cazadores and Nightstalkers came to be. Even some of the zanier things are explained because the Think Tank are very smart. As long the game even bother to give me an explanation, even if just minor, i'm fine.

And you know what's funny? Obsidian mocked Bethesda for making aliens canon. They made aliens only being able to appear with the Wild Wasteland trait, which makes the world spawn crazy events.

 

[CT Phipps]

I actually like Old World Blues and it's very zany and wacky. But i far as i know, it didn't break the lore in any major way. It didn't made an easter egg into an actual canon thing and have that thing actually influence one of the major events in the Fallout universe.

As far as i know, it explained how animals like Cazadores and Nightstalkers came to be. Even some of the zanier things are explained because the Think Tank are very smart. As long the game even bother to give me an explanation, even if just minor, i'm fine.

And you know what's funny? Obsidian mocked Bethesda for making aliens canon. They made aliens only being able to appear with the Wild Wasteland trait, which makes the world spawn crazy events.

The explanation for the mutant creatures is they were created by a bunch of centuries old brains in jars in a war with another brain in a jar who has long ago gone senile. I like Old World Blues fine but I go with the idea that taking it seriously versus Mothership Zeta is a hill made of quicksand.

Then again, I don't see why aliens are objectively sillier than ghouls made of radiation.

I've stated I'd like for them to have it revealed that the Greys/Zetans are a bunch of mutated humans living on a Vault on the Moon but I think that implies we have to take Mothership Zeta seriously. When, like comic books, some of it is just meant in good fun.

 

[Norzan]

The explanation for the mutant creatures is they were created by a bunch of centuries old brains in jars in a war with another brain in a jar who has long ago gone senile. I like Old World Blues fine but I go with the idea that taking it seriously versus Mothership Zeta is a hill made of quicksand.

Then again, I don't see why aliens are objectively sillier than ghouls made of radiation.

I've stated I'd like for them to have it revealed that the Greys/Zetans are a bunch of mutated humans living on a Vault on the Moon but I think that implies we have to take Mothership Zeta seriously. When, like comic books, some of it is just meant in good fun.

For me, as long the game gives context to how things work, you can make the silliest things be able to be taken seriously. Because Fallout is its own universe and has its own rules. meaning these rules are most likely not compatible with the real world. Something can still be just for fun but still be able to be taken serious. Fun and serious are not incompatible things.

I find it really dumb to criticize something for making no sense with the real world, when the world of the game explains why it's like that.

Aliens on the other hand were a joke. The devs made it an easter egg, meaning they are not canon to the world of Fallout. And yet, Bethesda decided to make it canon when it wasn't. That's my issue, it contradicts established lore. Ghouls were given context and lore and even they were butchered in Fallout 3. They are supposed to be slow and yet Bethesda made them into this super fast running zombies. It contradicts their established anatomy in the first two games.

And it's just one of the reasons why i don't like this DLC and i already mentioned other reasons in a previous post. Literally 10 bucks or more when it was released to spend three hours shooting boring aliens with some of the worst shooting ever in gaming.

 

[Cobra Commander]

I'm sure that even without the easter eggs, Mothershit Zeta would still happen.

Or they would replace it with a DLC based in some Lovecraft story or something like that.

 

[CT Phipps]

I'm sure that even without the easter eggs, Mothershit Zeta would still happen.

Or they would replace it with a DLC based in some Lovecraft story or something like that.

I guess it's just, at 38, I'm aware this is all fictional fun anyway.

So it doesn't matter if one thing breaks the rules.

I admit, I'm also a big fan of Sleeping Dogs story which is set in an enormous zombie invasion. Ditto Red Dead Redemption's zombie quest.

 

[CerberusGate]

Sleeping Dogs story which is set in an enormous zombie invasion

Jiang Shi actually but same idea. I can't recall if they hopped around like actual Jiang Shi though.

 

[CT Phipps]

Jiang Shi actually but same idea. I can't recall if they hopped around like actual Jiang Shi though.

I basically think games are entitled to veer off into their own little worlds at times because craziness isn't a bad thing since we're mostly all adults here.

The "Serious Military Shooter but with ZOMBIES!" thing certainly has worked in the past for Call of Duty.

Infamous had Cole fight a bunch of vampires.

Mothership Zeta may be "canon" but it's something that has no relevance to anywhere else in the Wasteland.

 

[Norzan]

Mothership Zeta may be "canon" but it's something that has no relevance to anywhere else in the Wasteland.

That would be fine if not for the fact that it was heavily implied that the aliens helped in one way or another to cause the Great War. The war that caused the nuclear bombs to be launched.

That's no longer fine.

 

[CT Phipps]

That would be fine if not for the fact that it was heavily implied that the aliens helped in one way or another to cause the Great War. The war that caused the nuclear bombs to be launched.

That's no longer fine.

Except there's been multiple repeated references to many causes about the Great War.

It's also an RL joke about the urban legend UFOs almost caused nuclear war.

 

[Norzan]

Except there's been multiple repeated references to many causes about the Great War.

It's also an RL joke about the urban legend UFOs almost caused nuclear war.

There's a recording in the Zeta Mothership where a soldier says they are trying to probe his mind for the United States nuclear launch codes. Speculation ends when there's recorded evidence of them trying to get them.

And again, aliens were a joke in the first two games. They could have easily just made the Zetan into some new mutated being, which would have been fine. But instead went with the cliched green aliens.

This DLC is just one of the many stupid things with Fallout 3. If this was just an isolated thing, fine. I would still not like it for breaking lore. But Fallout 3 is just a stream of nonsense, just piling one on top of the other. There's having fun with some sporadic hijinks and then there's just constant nonsense.

 

[CT Phipps]

There's a recording in the Zeta Mothership where a soldier says they are trying to probe his mind for the United States nuclear launch codes. Speculation ends when there's recorded evidence of them trying to get them.

And again, aliens were a joke in the first two games. They could have easily just made the Zetan into some new mutated being, which would have been fine. But instead went with the cliched green aliens.

This DLC is just one of the many stupid things with Fallout 3. If this was just an isolated thing, fine. I would still not like it for breaking lore. But Fallout 3 is just a stream of nonsense, just piling one on top of the other. There's having fun with some sporadic hijinks and then there's just constant nonsense.

That's a case of what TV tropes calls "Completely Missing the Point."

The game exists so you can fight aliens. Specifically, 1950s Conspiracy Theory Aliens like in Mars Attacks.

Making them mutants kind of ruins it, doesn't it?

Crapping all over the concept to ruin it so it fits "lore" kind of is like "Let's do Far Cry Blood Dragon except make it serious, not post-apocalyptic, and without cybernetics or the nuclear war aftermath."

 

[TerminallyChill]

Norzan, why do you care so much about a story a bunch of dumbasses slapped together in 10 minutes at Bethesda Softworks? You have clearly put infinitely more thought into this topic than any of those clowns ever did. If you hate the new Fallouts so much, just do what I do with the Star Wars prequels and pretend like they don't exist. It's literally not worth your mental energy.

 

[CerberusGate]

That's a case of what TV tropes calls "Completely Missing the Point."

The game exists so you can fight aliens. Specifically, 1950s Conspiracy Theory Aliens like in Mars Attacks.

Making them mutants kind of ruins it, doesn't it?

Crapping all over the concept to ruin it so it fits "lore" kind of is like "Let's do Far Cry Blood Dragon except make it serious, not post-apocalyptic, and without cybernetics or the nuclear war aftermath."

In that case, Zeta should have been a non-canon spin-off on its own like Blood Dragon, Undead Nightmare and even Yakuza Dead Souls rather than being placed in a mainline game without any way to remove it from canon. Thanks to Zeta, aliens did become canonical entities to the franchise rather than the easter eggs they originally were.

 

[CT Phipps]

In that case, Zeta should have been a non-canon spin-off on its own like Blood Dragon, Undead Nightmare and even Yakuza Dead Souls rather than being placed in a mainline game without any way to remove it from canon. Thanks to Zeta, aliens did become canonical entities to the franchise rather than the easter eggs they originally were.

Is there any sign this wasn't just a silly romp? Do you think Bethesda actually cares about the Zetans?

And even if it was, is that a big thing?

I mean canonically, the Guy from Monty Python was an encounter in Fallout 2.

 

[CerberusGate]

Is there any sign this wasn't just a silly romp? Do you think Bethesda actually cares about the Zetans?

Thanks to their inclusion into canon (alien cities under the Mojave could count and the entiriety of the Zeta DLC in 3 with no real way to exclude it from canon etc.), future writers would have to care.

I'd prefer if there was an option to make Zeta into a fever dream of the LW or fully lampshaped how the entire thing is a nonsensical romp rather than have it played completely straight like it does in the actual DLC.

 

[CT Phipps]

Thanks to their inclusion into canon (alien cities under the Mojave could count and the entiriety of the Zeta DLC in 3 with no real way to exclude it from canon etc.), future writers would have to care.

Yeah, they can ignore it like both games have since.

I'd prefer if there was an option to make Zeta into a fever dream of the LW or fully lampshaped how the entire thing is a nonsensical romp rather than have it played completely straight like it does in the actual DLC.

Well, I'd prefer to have it really happen because it's awesome. But if you don't want it to happen, we can just not download it.

 

[CerberusGate]

Yeah, they can ignore it like both games have since.



Well, I'd prefer to have it really happen because it's awesome. But if you don't want it to happen, we can just not download it.

It would be easy to ignore were it not for the treatment of aliens as fully canon ever since (wikis for instance don't treat the aliens like easter eggs like they used to) and FO3 GOTY edition downloads Zeta in by default so not downloading it is no longer an option.

Personally, I couldn't care less about Zeta but I do see the issues of Zeta on the franchise as a whole and the potential issues of its inclusion in canon even if it is ignored (Bethesda'll probably resort to the aliens if it runs out of ideas).