Why Mothership Zeta is awesome

Chromevod said:
I'm not a gameplay purist, one of those types who insist that Fallout should keep to it's roots and be a PnP game using a computer. While I greatly prefer that style, it's not the most important factor for me. New Vegas proved that you could still do Fallout using the new style. Fallout 3 had shoddy writing all around, and Mothership Zeta was one of the places that the game was at its lowest. Mothership adding in the aliens in such a prominent role is counter to the spirit of Fallout. I've seen someone make the argument on NMA on this very issue, that Fallout is a story about humanity and the ruin that we bring upon ourselves, and the human ways that we deal with that. Mothership Zeta takes that idea, grinds it into a fine powder, and lets it be blown away in the wind.

Were Mothership Zeta given confirmed non-canon status, much of this issue would go away. It would be boring, but you could ignore it as a bump along with so much else of Fallout 3. It would essentially be a mediocre attempt at what OWB did so well. As is, it affects the Fallout setting far too much to be ignored.
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If you think Mothership Zeta is about the aliens, I do question whether you paid attention to the DLC at all. The point of Mothership Zeta is that humanity in all its infinite variations: Soldier, Slaver, Child, Cowboy, Samurai, and Wastelander can all join together to fight against impossible odds if they are willing to put aside their differences. The problem is that this existential threat is something which is required since they would never join together otherwise. Even so, the story is about humanity's capacity for peace and the strange little family they create as a result.
 
It is in fact that the aliens were brought into it that takes what merit that story has and does away with it. Humanity only setting aside their differences to band together to face a common threat (often space aliens) is almost a parable at this point. Of all the unrealistic and ridiculous things that are wrapped up in this zeerust post-apocalyptic future, that everything was caused by humanity was never in doubt.

That those radically different people worked together to fight off a bunch of aliens cheapens their unity within the setting, and clashes with the rest of the series. The major threats have always been human in origin. That's what makes so much of the series compelling. This is the bed we made, now we have to lie in it.
 
CT Phipps said:
If you think Mothership Zeta is about the aliens, I do question whether you paid attention to the DLC at all. The point of Mothership Zeta is that humanity in all its infinite variations: Soldier, Slaver, Child, Cowboy, Samurai, and Wastelander can all join together to fight against impossible odds if they are willing to put aside their differences. The problem is that this existential threat is something which is required since they would never join together otherwise. Even so, the story is about humanity's capacity for peace and the strange little family they create as a result.
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CT Phipps said:
I haven't played Dark Souls but the idea of you complaining about something which will make it more enjoyable for other gamers is why I'm glad you're not anywhere near game design. Some of us are causal gamers who love story primarily and gameplay which is fun over some kind of weird idea it needs to be THIS hard.
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Thing is, one thing is to make games accesible to new people.
A completely different one is to step on your fanbase and appeal to "everyone", sacrificing what made your franchise unique, good or not, for moneys
I love story primarily too, that's why SOMA is my favorite horror game, and maybe a walking simulator set in the Dark Souls universe could be indeed interesting (one of the games even had an item that allowed traveling to memories).
I'm pretty sure I can be called a casual (I dare you though :P) but I don't want things to be watered down for me. If I don't like it (being as is, mind you) I leave and look for other game. If I want more "realism" from Star Wars I go to Star Trek. If I want a more dynamic version of The Binding of Isaac, I go to Nuclear Throne. If I can't find anything similar, the case with Fallout, well... i cry a while in the corner.

I'm neither the first and last to say this, but Dark Souls isn't just difficulty. "Dark Souls is the hardest game ever" is a statement often used by... wait for it... its Marketing department, Gaming press, YouTubers and people that have heard it by vox populi.

It HAS an easy mode. It's called Online. The games get waay easier when summoning other people and friends, as enemy AI aggro is one of the hardest things to manage. Add that the amount of information avaleible on the internet about them is huge now. In every game there are options to mitigate hardship; in all of them there are NPCs summons if you are offline or don't want invasions. there are Messages and Bloodstains created by other players; the first is created purposefully and is used to troll just 10% of teh time. The latter are the last 5 seconds of a player life, warning you of traps, amushes, enemies, invaders, ledges, etc. You can also see other player's "ghosts" doing things, often revealing non-trapped chests or hidden passages.
You can leave your own Sign for people to summon you, and then you'll be able to explore a level or a boss with 0 danger and making a favor to your fellow man.

And there is a breaking point in every game if it's your first; if you managed to get there, usually around 5 hours in, you are IN. it's not that the game gets particularly easier, but you are in the zone. You feel comfy with your gear and seen the basics of mechanics. You want to upgrade that Claymore. You are going to kill that limp Demon in the basemant that shoots lightning.

Other things you can do, if you meet the requirements, is to get friends to either join your game, come at your house and play it through together or just keep some correspondency with others. They don't even need to be veterans. It keeps that old times feel of community discovery, like Pokemon or Zelda at their time.

It make sfor a pretty special experience for the player (i've done it three times already, an intensive, a surveying one and my brother's) and a nice experience for you two (three is a no-no unless it's a houseplant).

Point is, difficulty is a key element in the setting. You are no God nor Demigod, Hero, Chosen, Special, Skilled, The One. Hundreds have been "The Chosen X" before you, in this instance of the world and long past ones. A brittle Undead fighting alone against impossible odds, who shouldn't have made it past the Tutorial (most Tutorial Bosses are a test of worthyness, literally). You are facing Demons, Gods, Heroes, the remnants of civilization, the Ancient Ones, Lovecraftian Horrors, the Deep, Dark, Abyss, Chaos, Fog, Parmesan Cheese. You are the only one who ventured thus far in your timeline, as you see other heroes' corpses with their souls lying around until the very end.
The NPC's you meet on your journey don't share your goal, but they have grim fates as well. Be betrayed by your companions. Watch your friends' and your own sanity leaving. Cutthroats, assasins and thieves fighting each other. An optimist's mind get broken. Good intentions becoming terrible disasters. The merciful getting the worst of who they tried to help. The terrible means for the sake of research. Selfishness and pride of a god, condemning Man to a fleeting form.

These are some that i can think of right now, and i haven't played Bloodborne :D

This lost all point somewhere after the first paragraph, but serve yourself to make your own conclusions.
 
Chromevod said:
It is in fact that the aliens were brought into it that takes what merit that story has and does away with it. Humanity only setting aside their differences to band together to face a common threat (often space aliens) is almost a parable at this point. Of all the unrealistic and ridiculous things that are wrapped up in this zeerust post-apocalyptic future, that everything was caused by humanity was never in doubt.

That those radically different people worked together to fight off a bunch of aliens cheapens their unity within the setting, and clashes with the rest of the series. The major threats have always been human in origin. That's what makes so much of the series compelling. This is the bed we made, now we have to lie in it.
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I disagree.

Then again, I think Fallout is a deliberately less than serious setting which allows it to talk about serious issues.

The Mark Twain of video games so to speak.
 
Arnust said:
Then what is Saints Row? The Jonah Hill of videogames?
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I had the view Saints Row and Saints Row 2 actually had something to say about glamorizing gangs. Then they got dropped for pure "fun."

Which, fine, but it's not what I loved about the series.

I actually was moved by Lin's death in 1, by the Player becoming everything he hated, and by the fact they made Stillwater a worse place by their crusade.

In 2, Carlos' death was horrifying, as was the Boss' vengeance, so was Aiysha's death, and the death of Shogo.

Saints Row 3? Eh....giant dildo weapon.
 
Humor has always been a factor in Fallout, but there was always a consistency underneath. Fallout was always about humans, dealing with human problems, in a world filled with the absurd. The first game's main antagonists were a bunch of Hulk wannabes led by a guy who melted on top of a computer. If that's not oozing camp, I don't know what you would consider camp. At their most basic though, they were still human.
Within Fallout, they were also the antagonists the most drenched in science-fiction. The enclave had some mad-science experiments, sure, but they were still just run of the mill humans in the post-apocalypse though.

Aliens are more than just a step away from humans and how we interact with one another though, they're a full leap away. As a concept there's nothing wrong with aliens as a part of a story if they fit. They don't fit in Fallout beyond an easter egg poking fun at some of the '50s sci-fi concepts. The serious issues that are Fallout's origin are why certain types of people would band together, and how they would deal with other groups of people who banded together for different reasons. Whether they are diplomatic, hostile, or apathetic. That was core to Fallout's soul.
 
CT Phipps said:
I had the view Saints Row and Saints Row 2 actually had something to say about glamorizing gangs. Then they got dropped for pure "fun."

Which, fine, but it's not what I loved about the series.

I actually was moved by Lin's death in 1, by the Player becoming everything he hated, and by the fact they made Stillwater a worse place by their crusade.

In 2, Carlos' death was horrifying, as was the Boss' vengeance, so was Aiysha's death, and the death of Shogo.

Saints Row 3? Eh....giant dildo weapon.
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They flanderized Saints Row with SR3, but most people just say "The first two are GTA clones!"

Also being buried alive...*shudders*
 
Prone Squanderer said:
They flanderized Saints Row with SR3, but most people just say "The first two are GTA clones!"

Also being buried alive...*shudders*
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It is a GTA clone but I also love Mafia II and am shaking with excitement for Mafia III. At least in that GTA clone, they come by it honestly. :)
 
CT Phipps said:
It is a GTA clone but I also love Mafia II and am shaking with excitement for Mafia III. At least in that GTA clone, they come by it honestly. :)
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Yes I know they are GTA clones, but people disregard the good stuff and just state the obvious.

Mafia II was good. I'll wait and see what folks make of III before buying it.
 
CT Phipps said:
The point of Mothership Zeta is that humanity in all its infinite variations: Soldier, Slaver, Child, Cowboy, Samurai, and Wastelander can all join together to fight against impossible odds if they are willing to put aside their differences. The problem is that this existential threat is something which is required since they would never join together otherwise. Even so, the story is about humanity's capacity for peace and the strange little family they create as a result.
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You managed to make MZ sound even worse. What is this, a children's cartoon teaching good moral values?
 
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Tbh my opion is you could read into anything for example I could say ; Mothership zeta is about mental health issues of the wasteland that the lone wander gets so depressed and tried from the heat he imagines aliens. This is actually infact real. However as its protraited as actual having not happened by you going to the same point you started at. I think its too show the blured line between mental health actual what is real what isn't.

You see I can say what ever I want it realative to me. The game desginers clear had a thought in mind when creating the DLC. Maybe it was something deep maybe it was just something like lets try and make something in space and see where it goes from there. You cant really know what it actually mean you know. You can nly think what it means witch is the beauty of fallout and games. I mean you can play FO3 like you should you can role play ect. I mean to say something means something is really stupid but literally no one will understand because it relative to them.

I think overall people liked it or they didn't. When I played the DLC i din't actualy get anything from it. I just eh well thats done kinda thing. You know i really dind't get anything from it. Not to say their isn't anything there its just I din't really get that from the DLC
 
Mr Fish said:
Nothing flew over my head. What you said in what i quoted doesnt sound Fsllout to me. It sounds like it is straight out of a cartoon that is all about naive moral lessons.
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Yeah, and wow, it's like that seems to crap all over Fallout. Sorry man, but it does.
 
We have vastly different views on what fallout is about then and i dont see how you take away such a kiddie message from Fallout 1.
 
Mr Fish said:
We have vastly different views on what fallout is about then and i dont see how you take away such a kiddie message from Fallout 1.
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I agree. I don't think you appreciate the story or its maturity but, hey, YMMV
 
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