mrchaos
Super Orc
Why would he even bother with Goodsprings? It was little importance compared with Primm and it´s a bit isolated.
Why Robert Edwin House is the best hope for the wasteland and humanity
- Thread starter Throatpunch
- Start date
Why would he even bother with Goodsprings? It was little importance compared with Primm and it´s a bit isolated.
mutatedchihuahua00
are you bethloving it?
op seems pretty set in his opinion so what's the point of this thread to convince people that house is the best ending not everyone is gonna agree with you no matter how many paragraphs you write no offense
Throatpunch
Banned
Once your have ended the game these people dont threaten the balance of power on the strip, given the White gloves are busy with caniballism and falshy clothes, you dealt with the omertas, benny is dead and you have swank under your thumb.
Did you read what I said? the courier has a modicum of influence on mr houses decisions, I am sure you could pressure him into supplying extra funding for them. It could be a condition, eg: I work for you if this happens. Your employment is flexible.
Nothing is in good shape anywhere, and still people scavenge successfully. He might not say anything, but we don't know the extent of space plans.
I just enjoy debate my friend (:
Humans arent doing a particularly good job at the moment.
Many prodigies are not particularly what you might broadly define as "human". most intelligent people and genius's dont comply to our set of rules, your are not making sense because you cannot define what is a Human to begin with.
The cool thing is he is almost like a computer, but isnt so there isnt gonna be some genocidal AI revolution, which is a big positive
His leadership has everything to do with this. People before the war were incompetent and idiotic, otherwise the wasteland would not be as bad is it is.
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Spacemunkey
Vault Senior Citizen
So your plan is to let a prewar "person" back into power? Tell me then how are these things accomplished realistically? House would soon have a full scale revolt once enough people realize how disposable they are, the NCR will be back in force, and the Legion is more than happy to watch those 2 duke it out and clean up the remains. Honestly do you really believe the NCR will let it go or that the Legion is wiped out, or that even MKII Securitrons are enough to stop them both and any fed up locals? House is a pipe dream.
Ediros
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
Once you finish ghost town gunfight in favour of Goodsprings, more travellers come through = more money.
In the end, I can't convince OP that House is not actually the best guy to rule the Mojave.
Throatpunch
Banned
I have never heard so much trash. Most of the people in the NV strip are gamblers and holidaymakers. Every senior brass at the casino is employed to Mr house, and they are not disposable, they are key to his plan. so who are these disposables?
not likely. The NCR military is not an effective organisation by this point, and if you didn't realise, the Legion have been utterly destroyed. if you imagine, as a warrior state, the legions entire military comes with them at once, so when they are nuked by Misses and vaporised, that Caesarslegions gone. also any survivors will just scrap over the remains and not get things done, basically a mugger/ vandal gang. After such a defeat the government in California will be in crisis, half the cabinet will have to go, General Oliver's dead/ committed suicide/ humiliated, and the economy will implode. NCR expansionism will be put on hold, due to massive public opposition, not wanting another Mojave Vietnam. The economy will implode because of huge deficits racked up by the Mojave war, and NCR will probably enter a depression. also, Californian families will be pissed a their boys not coming home and dying futilely. going back to the Mojave will be last on their agenda, since social troubles at homes will be immense, and all faith in the govt will dissapear. people are already disenfranchised with ncrs direction, and this is obvious in the game. it will be hugely exacerbated by a Mojave embarrassment.
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Brivoo
Powered by Radiant AI
As I recall, Mr. House's ending isn't actually all that idyllic.
I don't remember what he himself says, nor do I care to; actions speak louder than words after all, and the ending slides are the only thing we can really use to see what he accomplishes.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but Freeside remains anarchic regardless of whether you picked House or Yes Man. The Follower's ending slide mentions them getting a new influx of patients due to this in both endings and the only positive change achievable for the Kings is in an Independent ending, where they make Freeside the safest place in the area; meanwhile, the most positive thing you can do for them with House is just leaving them alone otherwise they are slaughtered.
Towns like Goodsprings and Primm mention that the only real change when Mr. House gains control is that he sends in securitrons to "protect" (yes, quotation marks are included) them and collect heavy taxes, leaving them more impoverished than before if anything; meanwhile, independence leaves Primm pretty much as it was before the Powder Gangers and Goodsprings thrives as a popular rest stop.
The only arguably better outcome in the House ending is with the Brotherhood of Steel, and that's simply because you have to destroy them; if you choose to do so anyway in an Independent ending, you'll get the exact same result (left alive, the BoS would start hassling travelers for advanced tech).
I keep seeing a popular argument that the Independent ending is "anarchic". While it is true that the symbol appears on the achievement and one of the endings specifically mentions the term, this is only if the securitrons aren't upgraded and since we're considering the best possible endings, I don't think that should be counted.
If they are upgraded, however, the ending states that all chaos following the victory at Hoover Dam is ended quickly with a minimal loss of life and acceptance of this new regime follows quickly. It also says that New Vegas becomes an Independent State, further proving my point as an ending where the three Casino Families and every other group in the Mojave refused to cooperate would certainly not join together to form a country.
Meanwhile, in a House ending, Ron Pearlman described his reign as a "despotic vision of pre-war glory", despotic being a very important (and generally negative) word. Almost every other instance where House is mentioned in ending slides that aren't his go out of their way to describe him as tyrannical; as so, it can be assumed that he is viewed as such by the majority of the population. He also described his rule as "cold", which although not necessarily bad, it implies a police state and is generally not very nice. Finally, the last line " New Vegas continued to be the sole place in the wasteland where fortunes were won and lost in the blink of an eye" shows that, under House, absolutely nothing changes in the Strip proper, for better or for worse.
I will concede, however, that House grants the Courier a life of luxury in every possible instance, so it is the best option for the self-interested character.
I don't remember what he himself says, nor do I care to; actions speak louder than words after all, and the ending slides are the only thing we can really use to see what he accomplishes.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but Freeside remains anarchic regardless of whether you picked House or Yes Man. The Follower's ending slide mentions them getting a new influx of patients due to this in both endings and the only positive change achievable for the Kings is in an Independent ending, where they make Freeside the safest place in the area; meanwhile, the most positive thing you can do for them with House is just leaving them alone otherwise they are slaughtered.
Towns like Goodsprings and Primm mention that the only real change when Mr. House gains control is that he sends in securitrons to "protect" (yes, quotation marks are included) them and collect heavy taxes, leaving them more impoverished than before if anything; meanwhile, independence leaves Primm pretty much as it was before the Powder Gangers and Goodsprings thrives as a popular rest stop.
The only arguably better outcome in the House ending is with the Brotherhood of Steel, and that's simply because you have to destroy them; if you choose to do so anyway in an Independent ending, you'll get the exact same result (left alive, the BoS would start hassling travelers for advanced tech).
I keep seeing a popular argument that the Independent ending is "anarchic". While it is true that the symbol appears on the achievement and one of the endings specifically mentions the term, this is only if the securitrons aren't upgraded and since we're considering the best possible endings, I don't think that should be counted.
If they are upgraded, however, the ending states that all chaos following the victory at Hoover Dam is ended quickly with a minimal loss of life and acceptance of this new regime follows quickly. It also says that New Vegas becomes an Independent State, further proving my point as an ending where the three Casino Families and every other group in the Mojave refused to cooperate would certainly not join together to form a country.
Meanwhile, in a House ending, Ron Pearlman described his reign as a "despotic vision of pre-war glory", despotic being a very important (and generally negative) word. Almost every other instance where House is mentioned in ending slides that aren't his go out of their way to describe him as tyrannical; as so, it can be assumed that he is viewed as such by the majority of the population. He also described his rule as "cold", which although not necessarily bad, it implies a police state and is generally not very nice. Finally, the last line " New Vegas continued to be the sole place in the wasteland where fortunes were won and lost in the blink of an eye" shows that, under House, absolutely nothing changes in the Strip proper, for better or for worse.
I will concede, however, that House grants the Courier a life of luxury in every possible instance, so it is the best option for the self-interested character.
mrchaos
Super Orc
What gave you that impression? The ncr military is an effective organisation, the war with the legion is just unpopular back home with the people and they wouldn´t another war with another potencial foe that prefers to keep open trade and borders.
Black Angel
Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus
The reason why Mr. House didn't 'care' for these areas is
1. He only had a handful of MkI Securitrons at hand.
2. He, the NCR, and the Caesar's Legions is at a stalemate.
With only a handful of MkI Securitrons, he can only keep peace in the Strip. At a stalemate like that, I don't think he can do anything for Freeside, Westside, even North Vegas. One lesson he learned from the NCR is to not stretch his forces so thinly around New Vegas. Hence, why he focused on the Strip.
Actually, only the Omertas wanted to oust him. Swank is loyal to Mr. House. Heck, if you employed Swank's help to take down Benny in the casino, none of the Chairmen, even Benny's bodyguard, give a fuck about Benny after you've dealt with him.
I also don't think he would be 'finished' and it's only a matter of time. Remember, Mr. House himself admitted that the NCR has more than enough forces and resources to take him down, but the NCR are very, VERY afraid of the Caesar's Legion, that if the NCR tried to take down Mr. House by themselves, they would win but vulnerably exposed to the Caesar's Legion to finish the job.
The Legion has Frumentarii all over the place, even Vulpes entering and exiting the Strip so easily, but their eyes are fixed upon the NCR. The Legion won't take down Mr. House by themselves, and rather have you do the job ("I want to take down Mr. House. A quick one-two punch, with you doing the punches." or something like that, Caesar himself said).
The NCR might have Ranger's stations all around the Mojave, but like have been said again and again, they are too thinly stretched, they could barely hold themselves together. Nipton was burnt down, Ranger Station south of Novac was wiped out, McCarran was infiltrated, and the also lose Camp Searchlight.
If we are to talk about Mr. House's goals, it was actually very possible. Remember, House was, and still is, the head of RobCo. Just before the Great War, RobCo absorbed REPCONN to its' organization. REPCONN was specialized in space travel, and with their brief cooperation, I'm sure House has all the knowledge to make it happen. And, he has you, resourceful and reliable (if you roleplayed that, and also a Good karma Courier).
He only preserved Las Vegas's spirit. He wanted to expand New Vegas to become "shining jewel in the middle of the desert, an oasis of light, a beacon to show mankind a way to the stars." He might be cold, ruthless, calculating, but as his protege, you are the one to decide how everything comes to play. His goals is possible, but only if you help him.
As I've said above, both the Legion and the NCR aren't capable of securing the region, since they are on each other's throat. What can Benny with the Yes Man do? And the Followers has no interest in seizing the power, and thus incapable of securing the region. All other factions works if the Courier works for them.
And of course House would be actively seeking outside help, he's busy holding the Strip together. What can he do on his own? He was using an unupgraded OS/software, that can barely function with Victor in Goodsprings. He might not really have the brawn to do anything, but he has the best brain out of the bunch.
He only destroy Kings if you let them made peace with the NCR. Shitty, I know, but I can see the logic in why the Kings were hostile to the NCR at default. First of, I know the Kings, without the King's knowledge, screwed NCR's messenger to the King, and the NCR's squatters also screwed the Locals (Roy, Wayne, and the other one sleeping in the Followers's tent). However, we don't know which one happened first, might be the Kings did it first, but the NCR squatters started it when they began flooding Freeside, squatting. If the NCR really wanted to help the Locals, why not do it anyway? Why do they need to send a messenger? The Followers already occupied Old Mormon Fort, and is helping the Locals. Yeah, there is a possibility that Julie Farkas was also sending a messenger to the Kings. I guess it's the difference between the NCR and the Followers.
The NCR and the Followers were once helping each other, but a disagreement between them, and difference in philosophy made them work alone. The NCR want to occupy, while the Followers want to purely help. The NCR wanted to take Freeside's local space, the Followers did not.
Also, I'm not sure what kind of things the Boomers has to spark Mr. House's interest? At that point, the Boomers are treated just the same as the rest of Mojave's native inhabitants and NCR citizens; costumer.
"Mr. House showed little interest on the Boomers, who eventually began venturing out of Nellis to meet and trade with travelers." They assimilated with rest of the Mojave.
Actually, House prefers people like the Courier. Heck, he preferred people who agreed to cooperate with him. He already wanted to make Benny his protege, until he fucked up. Also, the Kings actually refused Mr. House's offer to reform, which is why they were shoved to Freeside.
Well, House leaving the Kings alone mean the Kings can continue keeping peace in Freeside. Should New Vegas begin to expand, I'm sure House would want to assimilate the Kings and Freeside to the Strip, with the Courier doing the job, no?
House actually imposed no taxes on Goodsprings whatsoever, only that Victor monitored Goodsprings for him. The only difference between House and Independence for Goodsprings is whether or not there's Victor in the picture. Otherwise, Goodsprings thrived anyway.
Primm was mostly left alone, if you assign either Meyers or Primm Slim as the sheriff. House only attack Primm if you let the NCR take the law to Primm. Even if you presented Mojave to the NCR, then they are the ones who impose heavy taxes on Primm.
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RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
Ahh... Mr. House. What a well written character. Although I never side with House and disagree with his politics I can't help but admire the man for his accomplishments and perseverance. Its too bad that I can't take Mr. House seriously anymore thanks to Bethesda. Seriously Beth!? House being besties with a 400 year old vampire!? Fuck you! 
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Not this argument....
House is fucking naive and idealistic. He promises the stars and yet fails to deliver, on both political, financial and welfare accounts (what, you seriously think he RUNS New Vegas?). Also his dreams to go to space are flawed on the premise that there is not enough resources to do so, and assuming from what we can see technology is isn't significantly advanced for colonization. I can go on but I've think others have covered the main points.
House is fucking naive and idealistic. He promises the stars and yet fails to deliver, on both political, financial and welfare accounts (what, you seriously think he RUNS New Vegas?). Also his dreams to go to space are flawed on the premise that there is not enough resources to do so, and assuming from what we can see technology is isn't significantly advanced for colonization. I can go on but I've think others have covered the main points.
Black Angel
Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus
From where do we know he fails to deliver his promises to get us to the stars? The fact that he bought REPCONN under his wings of RobCo? They only had 2 years of interaction before the bombs fell. House specifically asked 50 years before he can get people in orbit, and he only had 2 years to interact with REPCONN.
And I don't think he's actually naive. Idealistic, okay, but not naive. He also asked to be given 20 years to reignite hi-tech development sector, and then from there we will have all the resources enough to start colonizing the stars. REPCONN is basically the NASA of Fallout universe and they are the ones who get people on the Moon in the 1950s or so. A hundred years later and I'm sure REPCONN already know more to get people to the stars, they only need someone who doesn't hold them back and that someone is Mr. House.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
He bought Repconn. Fantastic, don't you love it how their museum thinly veils their failures and inefficiency? Even under his wing it didn't help. They got sent tons of stealth boys for goodness sake!
Oh he is, in his own way. Idealistic for sure. Twenty years. He didn't have that before (sarcasm)! But seriously, how would he be able to? He lacks the fuel and resources to create that industry, especially comparing to the lack of resources in the Mojave and his inability to expand. With the failure to produce more Robotrons he's doomed to starve out in the Mojave while being harried by the NCR and Legion. Not gonna happen.
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
Dude Mr. House'll piece out a solid trading relationship with NCR and with Caesar dead the Legion won't be much of a threat. With the miracle technology of the Big MT, the Sierra Madre and, his own crazy tech, resources won't be a problem. With the platinum chip he completes his royal flush, in a few years he'll be developing more securitrons, in a couple more he'll annex Freeside and the Mojave then finally he'll terraform Mars/the Moon.
The House always wins baby.
The House always wins baby.
Black Angel
Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus
Just recently I explored the Headquarters again, get on tour with the Guide there. If anything, the museum tells us that they had a lot of potential, that both Poseidon Energy and RobCo wanted to buy them. Of course, that stealth boys fiasco happened because of bad management. And they only had 2 years with RobCo before the bombs fell, hence why they didn't manage to progress any further.
The fact that he's being sustained with an iron lungs and he had an army of Securitrons still being reproduced under the Fort, and also if he won the Second Battle for Hoover Dam, I'm sure he will expand the production of Securitrons, and they don't need food, water, and air. Help him with the vending machines of Sierra Madre, establish a trade route to the north (maybe even persuade Happy Trails caravan to work for him and compete with the Crimson Caravan), the technology of Big MT, and whatever is left of the Divide, and we are good to go.
Brivoo
Powered by Radiant AI
You can't assume he'll use the DLC resources, otherwise, every single ending could use the same argument; after all, let's not forget that the Big MT is the Courier's domain, not House's. As for the Sierra Madre, it's more of a graveyard than a technological treasure trove, and there's nothing there that can't be found in the Big MT.
Why would House ever annex Freeside? He's a very pragmatic character, everything he does is towards the completion of his own goal (which, as @Dr Fallout mentioned, he couldn't complete before the bombs, nevermind after) and if he needed Freeside annexed, he would have done so already.
As I've said before, it doesn't matter what he says because, for all we know, he could be completely deranged. Results matter more than promises, and under House's rule, the ending slides show that the Wasteland would become at best a police state where the only prosperous place is the Strip and at worst a cold dystopia where House obeys his own sadistic lackey out of fear.
The same could be basically said of the Independent ending (immortality coffin aside) and with a lot less autocracy to boot.
As a side note, the Happy Trails Caravan Company was on its last legs when you joined it, and its expedition to New Canaan was their last hope to pull themselves out of the grave. By the end of the game, I doubt it even exists anymore.
a721402
Perhaps tomorrow will be better.
Aren't remnants of New Canaan help them to stay in business after you retreat everyone in Zion?
Black Angel
Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus
Why can't we assume so? This far, every time people discuss the endings, they always brings up the resources from the DLCs, and I see nothing wrong with that. Sierra Madre might be too much of a stretch, but OWB's ending hinted at the possibility of the Courier using the tech of the Big MT.
As I've said before, Mr. House is limited in his forces and resources. He focused his Securitrons in keeping peace in the Strip, and also focused his resources in finding the Platinum Chip. He also only had 2 years to interact with Repconn Aerospace, hence why there wasn't much progress in space travels.
If he's really deranged, how could he achieved New Vegas Strip? I know the Strip was kinda disappointing, and there was supposed to be more, but it's already impressive. Reforming 3 tribes and turning them into the Three Families, rebuilt Las Vegas's Strip, making them fully functional, convinced the NCR to make a treaty with him instead so they could keep the Caesar's Legion at bay together, those are results. The ending slides only talked about New Vegas's Strip, not the Mojave Wasteland. The wasteland was mostly left alone (and left to your decision on what has become of them), except when you allowed too much of NCR's intervention like persuading them to annex Primm and make peace with the Kings.
If Mr. House is really deranged, how could've he spent 812000 caps in a year prior to the events of New Vegas, just to look for the Platinum Chip, and actually gets a result? Although not the result he really wanted, and he actually admitted it was a miscalculation in his part about Benny. That's something, no?
Well, the game kind of mourned the loss of Mr. House if you killed him, with all that "Last, Best Hope of Humanity" stuff, written in a note that is added to your inventory. He has the brain to achieve his goal, all he need is a brawn, and not just a brawn, but a professional one at that, to help humanity back to its' feet.
And on side note, the Happy Trails Caravan Company actually still existed and prospered if you helped Joshua Graham put down the White Legs.
Jogre
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
You are aware that Jane isn't actually a sexbot right?, It's hinted at that Mr House doesn't have sex, instead he just makes his lovers get changed in to different costumes while he watches.
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
Yeah, didn't Raul say that House interviewed and photographed the original Jane in order to make a psychological profile and, presumably by extension an AI?