...It's not a toll, it's a check. The Securitrons at the gate do not take a flat tax for House of 2000 caps. All they do is check if you have enough caps on your person to be allowed entry no questions asked, or if you have been given special permission to come in regardless of caps as shown by possessing a passport.
House takes control of Freeside as well after the Battle of Hoover Dam, though the method differs depending on what you did. Either he establishes peaceable relations with the Kings who remain the dominant force in Freeside, or he wipes them out and takes control more directly.
I think it's also worth noting that through the ending slides, no matter player karma, a House victory explicitly states that House keeps New Vegas stable for generations. In a setting like Fallout, I don't think that something like stability should be undersold. Yes, New Vegas under House is ruled by a despot, but at least it's a despot who sees those he rules as employees, not as subjects. Under the Legion, the despot would want to crush all opposition, to bend minds to thoughtless loyalty. Under House, the despot wants to pay people to do a job, and only wants to exert direct control while they're on the clock.
Are you kidding me? You're literally saying that to get resources he has to mine the moon (I admit, that's possible but...) but he needs resources TO get to the moon. There's no way he can get the rockets, fuel and more in the Mojave. Unless his robot army becomes super powerful and expands across, beating the NCR and Legion. That whole paragraph never explained how he would get to the moon... so yeah.
I meant by launch faculties, rocket launching areas, (like JFK space centre) with data, fuel, tech and maybe rockets.
I never said anything about moon mines at any point.
He is able to find fuel for the rockets he constructs. On the subject of resources, just because a nuclear war happened didn't mean everything dissapeared , it means its harder to get the needed resources to get his plan working.
To be honest, he would probably use nuclear power not fossil fuels, fossil fuels went outta fashion in Fallout and was replaced by nuclear power.
I am going to talk about Repconn, and I know you think Repconn is irrelevant and didn't get into rocket development, but I disagree.
The R77-239A Needlenose rocket is a REPCONN Aerospace rocket, representing a hybrid fossil fuel/plasma engine design. The former is used to break free of Earth's gravitational pull, the latter to bring the rocket to other planets for mining operations.
The rocket, developed entirely by USSA scientists, was a single-stage vehicle with an ejectable crew section or satellite storage bay. The propulsion system was a nuclear-electric derivative drive, using a massive electrical jolt to start the nuclear reaction on launch. The crew section was protected from the radioactive chambers by way of a massive titanium-vanadium disc. The spacecraft had the capability to sustain two astronauts up to a maximum of 24 days. The longest recorded space flight in a Delta IX rocket was the 17-day Zeus 12 mission to the moon.
All he'd have to do is send enough people on rockets to these abandoned lunar facilities and get them working on making them operational. If he's lucky, he might scavenge information that could lead to him producing even more effective colony ships, but at the very least he has access to the Moon.
Access to the moon is certainly a key factor given:
House can produce a lunar colony that is viable and self-sufficient in most concerns. He'd still need salvage, but that is assuming he loses Vegas in the process of taking hold of the Moon.
We have undeniable evidence of a moon conflict from Fallout 4
The battle at the sea of Tranquility? Generally people dont tend to have battles, unless there is something there of strategic value.
Perhaps what it was about was just who can take control and colonise the moon first.
People in space suits fighting implies that there are military base camps on the moon. In fact, it would only make sense that there are landing camps and beachhead on there.
Considering this, they more than likely had lunar facilities to deploy troops/fighters to attack one another. If there are any leftover facilities, House wouldn't even need to start from scratch on Earth.
Spaceflight technology was a good deal more advanced than in our own world, they have SSTO craft, nuclear propulsion, and continued going to the moon well into the 21st century from the first touchdowns in the 1960's.
House tends not to promise unless he can deliver, and I doubt that has changed here.
He would not talk about taking rockets to the stars unless he knew there was a feasible way to do it.
You cannot deny House is able to get to the moon.
We managed it in the 60's with technology vastly inferior to what House has
Under House, the despot wants to pay people to do a job, and only wants to exert direct control while they're on the clock.
The tribes never would have organised into a police force, if the white gloves tried they would've ended up eating peeps, if the Omertas did then Vegas would just be Reno 2: Electric Boogaloo and, if the Chairmen tried it would've been boring as shit.
Do you think Vegas would be as developed as it is if it weren't for House (and without NCR)? No electricity, no law, no casinos, no economy, no running water and, no fucking city, the people have House to thank for that.
A police force would have come out anyway, though not as organized or robotic as Mr Houses (those robots are realistically ineffective in policing, due to their lack of deductive reasoning... and inability to enter most buildings), who are only good for riot control and intimidation (damn it, why the constant Legion vibes?). Also not necessarily. The White Gloves are smart enough to know who to eat and vice versa. Alliances can be made even when they eat flesh and they'll leave you alone. So? New Vegas is like Reno, except it has law (kept by robots who can only deal with open threats, hence the inability to stop Omerta's plot) and Mr House. Are you saying this from a game perspective now?
Hahahaha, you had to add the NCR. Note I never said they wouldn't be there so... yeah they would have developed from the NCR at least. So... no, no, yep, no, no... hahaha, hell no. While Vegas as the denizens knew it would never exist, there would be a city there, though more like an NCR one.
There was also the Great Khans there. Many people lived in the ruins of Vegas as tribals. Only the 3 biggest actually accepted Mr. House's offering to reform. The Great Khans were exiled to Bitter Springs for whatever reason, and the Kings probably another biggest gang to refused Mr. House's offer were shoved to Freeside. The rest of the local? Probably smaller tribals who tried to 'reform' themselves in a vain attempt to finally get accepted back into the Strip.
And that 2000 caps extortion has already been explained. Not just anybody should wander around the Strip so freely. They gotta pay the toll to prove they've got enough money to be spend in the Strip, or they gotta go away. No matter how many riches anybody have in their pocket, Mr. House only take a flat 2000 caps from each individual. The rest of the money circulate through the casinos, and whoever trade with those casinos. The Strip isn't everything, yes, but it was one quick easy way to get money to fund Mr. House's goal.
Also, the situation in Freeside and Westside were mostly similar to that of Primm. Why do the NCR not bring the law to Primm, anyway? Because they don't have enough man to do it. Is money a problem for them? Of course not! But they need more men. And so does Mr. House, he doesn't have enough Securitrons to secure Freeside and Westside, and he currently have to focus all those money to recover the Platinum Chip, which in turn allow him to have more and better Securitrons.
I was being sarcastic. I meant that you ignored all the little folk who had no choice and were forcefully kicked out. Actually a lot of the locals are migrants and traders coming in, trying to be safe from various threats. Mr House could easily open the door to them, or at least ensure his Securitrons access to them but nooooo.
To Mr Houses benefit! 2000 caps is a lot of money, money that the casinos can easily profit from. Look at the math, if there were 1000 people in the strip that had those permits the money would add up to... 2000 000 caps, a shit ton of cash which the casinos can easily use, Mr House not so much. Go where? Back to shit holes House made for them? Actually no, THE NCR made for them (damn it, I have to agree here, but the NCR understand refugee problems WAY better then Mr House). So he takes a shit ton of money could circulate in the casinos. What goal? Oh right, the impossible one.
The NCR cannot bring law to Primm because it's not their territory, simple as that. Freeside and Westside however don't have that excuse. They're technically under his jurisdiction, not like he cares. Actually they do enough men (how else do you solve the quest?) but the high command isn't into it because as I said, Primm is independent. If Primm joins the NCR then they'll send more men. Except the Platinum chip could have been a massive waste of time.
I meant by launch faculties, rocket launching areas, (like JFK space centre) with data, fuel, tech and maybe rockets.
I never said anything about moon mines at any point.
He is able to find fuel for the rockets he constructs. On the subject of resources, just because a nuclear war happened didn't mean everything dissapeared , it means its harder to get the needed resources to get his plan working.
To be honest, he would probably use nuclear power not fossil fuels, fossil fuels went outta fashion in Fallout and was replaced by nuclear power.
Umm... last time I checked the Great War happened due to lack of resources. He has to expand then, which is something he can't do. True, but he would need technicians, engineers and various other rare complicated machinery to make it possible.
@Doomsdayprepper69 I can't believe you brought up the fucking Moon battle in order to support your points, just, Jesus dude, don't bring up the fucking Moon battle of all things when discussing the motivations of a character who actually makes sense.
@Doomsdayprepper69 I can't believe you brought up the fucking Moon battle in order to support your points, just, Jesus dude, don't bring up the fucking Moon battle of all things when discussing the motivations of a character who actually makes sense.
Well... yes. Because Fallout 4 retconns many things in the lore and that the Moon Battle is stupid. Very stupid. In this community we accept nothing from Fallout 4 and 3 (Veronica saying something extremely vague does not equal canon [when it's from the developers...]).
It's the most offensive thing in Fallout 4 for me. Some people hate Cabot house, some people hate the kid in the fridge, I hate the Moon battle. It's such a fucking stupid idea, it's exactly what Fallout would be about if it were made by the Saints Row devs, there's no possible justification for the stupid fucking Moon battle. I honestly can't fucking believe that it made its way into the game.
But that doesn't really matter, it's a bad idea to use the Moon battle as justification because the Obsidian writers couldn't possibly have planned for that to factor into House's motivations.
Well, if you bombed the shit out of the Moon then it'd look just about the same (craters and whatnot), so I'm not sure if that'd factor into the decision at all. Besides the Moon is pretty huge, he could just colonise elsewhere if need be.
I was being sarcastic. I meant that you ignored all the little folk who had no choice and were forcefully kicked out. Actually a lot of the locals are migrants and traders coming in, trying to be safe from various threats. Mr House could easily open the door to them, or at least ensure his Securitrons access to them but nooooo.
They were NOT forcefully kicked out. They've already offered a chance to reform but they refused, their mistake. If by migrants you meant NCR squatters, even the locals in Freeside were already hostile to them by default. For traders, they either stay in a trading post like the ones in 188 Trading Post or, like Crimson Caravan, traveled the Mojave. Why would traders holed up in the Strip?
And it's already said, again and again, not just anybody should walk freely along the Strip. It was exclusively for casinos and all sort of entertainment. To have that, you gotta prove you have the money to spend or not.
To Mr Houses benefit! 2000 caps is a lot of money, money that the casinos can easily profit from. Look at the math, if there were 1000 people in the strip that had those permits the money would add up to... 2000 000 caps, a shit ton of cash which the casinos can easily use, Mr House not so much. Go where? Back to shit holes House made for them? Actually no, THE NCR made for them (damn it, I have to agree here, but the NCR understand refugee problems WAY better then Mr House). So he takes a shit ton of money could circulate in the casinos. What goal? Oh right, the impossible one.
It's already said over and over that Mr. House is using all the caps he can get to recover Platinum Chip. After he recovered the Platinum Chip, he can finally focus on his goal, which is impossible (for you).
The NCR cannot bring law to Primm because it's not their territory, simple as that. Freeside and Westside however don't have that excuse. They're technically under his jurisdiction, not like he cares. Actually they do enough men (how else do you solve the quest?) but the high command isn't into it because as I said, Primm is independent. If Primm joins the NCR then they'll send more men. Except the Platinum chip could have been a massive waste of time.
Actually, that is exactly the problem with Freeside. Where in the agreement between Mr. House and the Three Families that they will be rebuilding not only the Strip, but also the Freeside? Mr. House only enlisted the Three Families to renovate the Strip, not Freeside and Westside too. I'll say this for one last time, the Freeside IS the place where those who disagree to work with Mr. House go. The Freeside technically belongs to the Kings, since the people of Freeside, heck even the Followers, admitted that nothing happened in Freeside without the King's knowledge, NOT Mr. House. Of course, if the Kings actually agreed to reform and work for Mr. House, Freeside would probably already made a part of the Strip. But the Kings refused to reform, so they where shoved to Freeside.
And Platinum Chip a massive waste of time? A chip that get the Securitrons factory up and working again, with a number that scared NOT only the NCR, but also Caesar's Legion..... a waste of time? Really?
Just because the moon battle annoys you does not mean you can discount it as a an argument, thats just silly.
Just because something's from 3 or 4 does not mean it didn't happen, or should not be taken seriously, thats just immature.
Also, just because the dev's didn't plan for it to factor in doesn't mean it can't later!
Ehh I don't really think House should run Vegas or the Mojave. He's an idealist, which I like. But he's too much of an autocrat to actually win favor from the people of Vegas when profits downturn and Vegas goes through a mini depression from lack of tourism. At that point people will hate him not being involved more.
They were NOT forcefully kicked out. They've already offered a chance to reform but they refused, their mistake. If by migrants you meant NCR squatters, even the locals in Freeside were already hostile to them by default. For traders, they either stay in a trading post like the ones in 188 Trading Post or, like Crimson Caravan, traveled the Mojave. Why would traders holed up in the Strip?
And it's already said, again and again, not just anybody should walk freely along the Strip. It was exclusively for casinos and all sort of entertainment. To have that, you gotta prove you have the money to spend or not.
Do you have prove saying otherwise? Their mistake? Oh let me see... I totally trust a robot (because that's what he looks like) with an army who promises peace and security. I mean, there are no crazy robots are there? By default? It really only seems that a few hate them, and that's mainly the Kings. You don't hear of mass uprisings or attacks do you? Because the strip has rich people walking in there, meaning there's places to sell. The 188 doesn't have top gear and the Crimson Caravan lack weaponry, drugs or other valuable goods.
It's already said over and over that Mr. House is using all the caps he can get to recover Platinum Chip. After he recovered the Platinum Chip, he can finally focus on his goal, which is impossible (for you).
Yay, let's waste lots of money on something that may not even be in the vicinity! Lucky for him it is. Oh it is impossible, but please explain how he would be able to create an industrial super power that can go to space purely in the vicinity of the Mojave. AND NO FUCKING BIG MOUNTAIN BULLSHIT!!! I love that DLC but it's now just a fall back argument.
Actually, that is exactly the problem with Freeside. Where in the agreement between Mr. House and the Three Families that they will be rebuilding not only the Strip, but also the Freeside? Mr. House only enlisted the Three Families to renovate the Strip, not Freeside and Westside too. I'll say this for one last time, the Freeside IS the place where those who disagree to work with Mr. House go. The Freeside technically belongs to the Kings, since the people of Freeside, heck even the Followers, admitted that nothing happened in Freeside without the King's knowledge, NOT Mr. House. Of course, if the Kings actually agreed to reform and work for Mr. House, Freeside would probably already made a part of the Strip. But the Kings refused to reform, so they where shoved to Freeside.
And Platinum Chip a massive waste of time? A chip that get the Securitrons factory up and working again, with a number that scared NOT only the NCR, but also Caesar's Legion..... a waste of time? Really?
Not really. Where the hell is the agreement? Because he only wanted them to renovate that certain areas yet he could have easily got them to renovate other locations, if he wanted to. Remember, this was never a contract, it was a forceful take over. But it isn't! There's no evidence (apart from the Kings) that the people there didn't agree with House (remember, they didn't have a choice. The local commoner would have no decision over the matter due to House's robotic army). That's just your assumption. And what about Westside? Umm, you realize if they try to help make Freeside better he kills them? And if they attack the NCR (causing more damage in Freeside) he just LEAVES THEM ALONE. How is that fair? If they help Freeside he kills them, if they ruin it he does NOTHING.
Um yes, because for all we know it could be on the bottom of the ocean. He's operating on a basic assumption, draining Vegas for something that might cease to exist. Realistically he's got no chance of finding it. It's lucky that he did, but still the chance and amount of caps spend do not add up.
Do you have prove saying otherwise? Their mistake? Oh let me see... I totally trust a robot (because that's what he looks like) with an army who promises peace and security. I mean, there are no crazy robots are there? By default? It really only seems that a few hate them, and that's mainly the Kings. You don't hear of mass uprisings or attacks do you? Because the strip has rich people walking in there, meaning there's places to sell. The 188 doesn't have top gear and the Crimson Caravan lack weaponry, drugs or other valuable goods.
Do you have prove that people are getting kicked out constantly out of the Strip? All I see is a Squatter (NCR squatter, not even a local) getting killed because he tried to forcefully enter the Strip. People like Old Ben, Bill Ronte, Jacob Hoff, all of them are fine in Freeside. None of them are actually suffering, no? There's nothing wrong happening in Freeside, until NCR squatters coming and flooding local spaces, so I don't see the point for Mr. House 'securing' Freeside.
The Strip is exclusive for casinos and whatever sorts of entertainment it can provide. Heck, there's also Vault 21 Hotel and Giftshop, what does the Strip needs? A weapon shop? Gun Runners are selling weapons right outside New Vegas, since they already found a place to manufacture their weapons. Van Graffs are newcomers coming from Redding, which is why they were holed in Silver Rush. None of them made an agreement with Mr. House to renovate the Strip, no? Besides, alcohol and drugs are practically part of casino services so why would they have another drug-dealer in the Strip?
Yay, let's waste lots of money on something that may not even be in the vicinity! Lucky for him it is. Oh it is impossible, but please explain how he would be able to create an industrial super power that can go to space purely in the vicinity of the Mojave. AND NO FUCKING BIG MOUNTAIN BULLSHIT!!! I love that DLC but it's now just a fall back argument.
The Platinum Chip is his in the first place. He knew where it was made, and predicted where it might ended up when it made its' way to Lucky 38. It takes time, and it's not luck. And seriously? What's wrong with the Big MT? What, you get to decide which ending is non-canon? It's not a fall back argument if there's an ending slide hinting a likely thing to happen. That DLC might be wacky and all, but the endings is pretty serious and when role-playing I get to decide which is a part of my head-canon.
Not really. Where the hell is the agreement? Because he only wanted them to renovate that certain areas yet he could have easily got them to renovate other locations, if he wanted to. Remember, this was never a contract, it was a forceful take over. But it isn't! There's no evidence (apart from the Kings) that the people there didn't agree with House (remember, they didn't have a choice. The local commoner would have no decision over the matter due to House's robotic army). That's just your assumption. And what about Westside? Umm, you realize if they try to help make Freeside better he kills them? And if they attack the NCR (causing more damage in Freeside) he just LEAVES THEM ALONE. How is that fair? If they help Freeside he kills them, if they ruin it he does NOTHING.
Oh, the agreement is there. Most of the casinos' folks are talking about it. How they were approached by Mr. House with an offer to reform, and in turns they help him renovate the Strip. The Great Khans also talked about how they were exiled because they refused. The Kings were once just a small gangs and maybe that's why they were not exiled like the Great Khans, and then they make a name for themselves, becoming the Kings and protector of Freeside. It was a contract, or you will hear otherwise from the casinos' folks. There were no locals when Vegas was just a ruin, there were tribals. Now that the Strip became more ordered, Freeside and Westside soon followed, albeit not as much as the Strip without a direction from someone like Mr. House.
And what about Westside? Just like Freeside, they were a place where people who refused to work with Mr. House were shoved into. It was irrelevant to Mr. House's goal of focusing on the Strip, and it was not part of Mr. House agreement.
There are many ways to help Freeside. To make peace between the Kings and the NCR's squatter is seen as an affront, because that means the Kings are willing to let the NCR flooding more and more of the Freeside. Remember, the NCR's squatter are not locals, AND on top of that they were led by an NCR's military official. The part of that final agreement you gave to General Oliver in Hoover Dam, when you support Mr. House, is that there must be NO NCR's military forces anywhere in the Mojave. NCR's squatters are led by a military official, hence why Mr. House see them as a threat in Freeside. If the Kings were made to fight and push them away from Freeside, it will be seen as an act of loyalty, and being left alone means they can do whatever the fuck they want to keep peace in Freeside. Isn't that a good thing? And since the Securitrons will be replacing the NCR's military forces across the Mojave, Mr. House would ABSOLUTELY support the Kings in Freeside with his Securitrons, and even the Westside (even though there was no closure about Westside in the ending slides). Of course, I would liked a better ending slides where Freeside finally gets annexed into the Strip and the Kings made a part of the families, with Three becoming Four Families.
Um yes, because for all we know it could be on the bottom of the ocean. He's operating on a basic assumption, draining Vegas for something that might cease to exist. Realistically he's got no chance of finding it. It's lucky that he did, but still the chance and amount of caps spend do not add up.
Luck is no excuse. And while he did operated on a basic assumption, he KNOWS everything about the Platinum Chip. He's the one who requested its' creation, he knows exactly when it was supposed to be delivered to him before the bombs fell, so he know exactly where to look. Why it took so long, he did explained he had multiple software crashes and he fell into coma many times, before finally get a hold of himself to finally get up, emerged out of Lucky 38 and approached the tribals surrounding the area, before beginning the search for the Platinum Chip.
Do you have prove that people are getting kicked out constantly out of the Strip? All I see is a Squatter (NCR squatter, not even a local) getting killed because he tried to forcefully enter the Strip. People like Old Ben, Bill Ronte, Jacob Hoff, all of them are fine in Freeside. None of them are actually suffering, no? There's nothing wrong happening in Freeside, until NCR squatters coming and flooding local spaces, so I don't see the point for Mr. House 'securing' Freeside.
The Strip is exclusive for casinos and whatever sorts of entertainment it can provide. Heck, there's also Vault 21 Hotel and Giftshop, what does the Strip needs? A weapon shop? Gun Runners are selling weapons right outside New Vegas, since they already found a place to manufacture their weapons. Van Graffs are newcomers coming from Redding, which is why they were holed in Silver Rush. None of them made an agreement with Mr. House to renovate the Strip, no? Besides, alcohol and drugs are practically part of casino services so why would they have another drug-dealer in the Strip?
No, we're not arguing IF they're getting kicked out, we're arguing is it fair and are there justifications behind it. So far I fail to see that they refused to reform with House, more like that House wasn't interested in the first place, which makes him a poor leader. Yeah, Mr House can't have poor suffering people soil his pretty little domain. Are you serious? Bill Fucking Ronte and Jacob Freakin Hoff both suffer severe drug issues, there is open crime on the street and poverty runs rampant. The migrants (who came to Vegas to gamble, you know like a certain Mr House wants) only worsened the issue, but they didn't cause it. Nothing wrong, god play the game again, and go there. Talk to the followers. The Strip is only exclusive because Mr House says so. Why not sweeten the deal to make it have more trades? Nothing wrong with selling more. Also, isn't it BENEFICIAL if he let's the Gun Runners and Van Graffs (who sell exclusively energy weapons in the area) into the strip to bring in more business? Now there's another reason why people would enter the strip, get drunk, waste their money and pay the toll to boot! Not to forget House can tax the traders for more profit, and don't you want that? Stop, just stop with the agreement thing. It's ruining my brains. Michelangelo wasn't part of the agreement, Vault 21 wasn't part of the agreement and yet they're there! Because the casinos don't sell high end drugs. If I wanted good drugs I would go to what's-his-name near Mick and Ralph's.
The Platinum Chip is his in the first place. He knew where it was made, and predicted where it might ended up when it made its' way to Lucky 38. It takes time, and it's not luck. And seriously? What's wrong with the Big MT? What, you get to decide which ending is non-canon? It's not a fall back argument if there's an ending slide hinting a likely thing to happen. That DLC might be wacky and all, but the endings is pretty serious and when role-playing I get to decide which is a part of my head-canon.
So? You realize that after... I don't know 200 years the chip could be anywhere? He's working off an assumption which payed off but could have failed. So yes there is luck. Luck that the chip stayed pretty much in the same area for two centuries. Big MT solves all problems in the wasteland, and while it's somewhat acceptable it really ruins the endings by making whoever owns it God. I'm not kidding, with the stuff in there you can become God. It's too overpowered in the way that it makes ANY fucking person the saviour. Hell Caesar gets it and suddenly he's great. NCR get's it and suddenly they're great. Goodsprings get's it and suddenly they're great. So... who's saying that me getting to choose my canon and non-canon is stupid? Also, it makes House even stupider, because it means Fallout 3 and 4 are canon.
Oh, the agreement is there. Most of the casinos' folks are talking about it. How they were approached by Mr. House with an offer to reform, and in turns they help him renovate the Strip. The Great Khans also talked about how they were exiled because they refused. The Kings were once just a small gangs and maybe that's why they were not exiled like the Great Khans, and then they make a name for themselves, becoming the Kings and protector of Freeside. It was a contract, or you will hear otherwise from the casinos' folks. There were no locals when Vegas was just a ruin, there were tribals. Now that the Strip became more ordered, Freeside and Westside soon followed, albeit not as much as the Strip without a direction from someone like Mr. House.
And what about Westside? Just like Freeside, they were a place where people who refused to work with Mr. House were shoved into. It was irrelevant to Mr. House's goal of focusing on the Strip, and it was not part of Mr. House agreement.
There are many ways to help Freeside. To make peace between the Kings and the NCR's squatter is seen as an affront, because that means the Kings are willing to let the NCR flooding more and more of the Freeside. Remember, the NCR's squatter are not locals, AND on top of that they were led by an NCR's military official. The part of that final agreement you gave to General Oliver in Hoover Dam, when you support Mr. House, is that there must be NO NCR's military forces anywhere in the Mojave. NCR's squatters are led by a military official, hence why Mr. House see them as a threat in Freeside. If the Kings were made to fight and push them away from Freeside, it will be seen as an act of loyalty, and being left alone means they can do whatever the fuck they want to keep peace in Freeside. Isn't that a good thing? And since the Securitrons will be replacing the NCR's military forces across the Mojave, Mr. House would ABSOLUTELY support the Kings in Freeside with his Securitrons, and even the Westside (even though there was no closure about Westside in the ending slides). Of course, I would liked a better ending slides where Freeside finally gets annexed into the Strip and the Kings made a part of the families, with Three becoming Four Families.
That's not... look when you get threatened by a virtually indestructable army accepting is no longer an 'agreement'. It's just coercion. God, to you the agreement is everything isn't it? What is the fantastic Mr House suddenly bound to unbreakable agreement that acts as the law of the Mojave and limits him from helping others because the AGREEMENT (which he made) tells him he can't? I'm going to bed with the words agreement ringing in my head. I don't debate that the Great Khans or the Kings were exiled. You haven't talked about the other locals. Tribals? They were locals, they lived there. WHY DIDN'T HE DIRECT THEM? Oh wait, that fucking agreement again.
Fucking Christ, can you stop acting as if Mr House's agreement binds everyone to follow the law of House, ruler of the Strip and representative of Robco on this hallowed planet. He is the second coming, enacting holy laws for the betterment of Humanity. Ad hominem attacks, but your slavish devotion to the agreement kind of pisses me off. It's a contract from some time ago. It's time for change damn it.
There are only two in the House Ending. Either he kills the Kings and leads to a power vaccum and the situation get's worse, or he leaves the kings and the situation get's worse. Let me explain it nice and slow. If the kings are left to do what they want... then what the hell have they been doing the last couple of years? Also the Followers ending (which explains the Freeside situation) says that if Mr House rules the place becomes worse in the Chaos, no matter what happens to the kings. So... all that hoping for a good ending? Ain't gonna happen.
Luck is no excuse. And while he did operated on a basic assumption, he KNOWS everything about the Platinum Chip. He's the one who requested its' creation, he knows exactly when it was supposed to be delivered to him before the bombs fell, so he know exactly where to look. Why it took so long, he did explained he had multiple software crashes and he fell into coma many times, before finally get a hold of himself to finally get up, emerged out of Lucky 38 and approached the tribals surrounding the area, before beginning the search for the Platinum Chip.
No, we're not arguing IF they're getting kicked out, we're arguing is it fair and are there justifications behind it. So far I fail to see that they refused to reform with House, more like that House wasn't interested in the first place, which makes him a poor leader. Yeah, Mr House can't have poor suffering people soil his pretty little domain. Are you serious? Bill Fucking Ronte and Jacob Freakin Hoff both suffer severe drug issues, there is open crime on the street and poverty runs rampant. The migrants (who came to Vegas to gamble, you know like a certain Mr House wants) only worsened the issue, but they didn't cause it. Nothing wrong, god play the game again, and go there. Talk to the followers. The Strip is only exclusive because Mr House says so. Why not sweeten the deal to make it have more trades? Nothing wrong with selling more. Also, isn't it BENEFICIAL if he let's the Gun Runners and Van Graffs (who sell exclusively energy weapons in the area) into the strip to bring in more business? Now there's another reason why people would enter the strip, get drunk, waste their money and pay the toll to boot! Not to forget House can tax the traders for more profit, and don't you want that? Stop, just stop with the agreement thing. It's ruining my brains. Michelangelo wasn't part of the agreement, Vault 21 wasn't part of the agreement and yet they're there! Because the casinos don't sell high end drugs. If I wanted good drugs I would go to what's-his-name near Mick and Ralph's.
It is fair AND there's a justification for it. You see, Mr. House offered the tribals a chance to reform, and that's a GOOD thing. The Chairmen, the Omertas, and the White Gloves..... look at where they are at now! Of course, they still had a problem, like the Omertas plotting with the Legion, the White Gloves top-brass had a difficulty letting go of their cannibalism, and the Chairmen's problem are only Benny. And those people getting kicked DID refused to reform. The Great Khans is a prime example. Now, do you see anyone, in Freeside, in Westside, the Kings, heck even anyone else who's native to Mojave talk shit about Mr. House and how he kicked them out 'just because'? There are none. If House isn't interested, how can he actually managed to help the Three Families reform to begin with? Bill Ronte and Jacob Hoff have those problem because of Atomic Wrangler, not because they aren't 'taken care of' by Mr. House. Crimes all over Freeside were also a fucking joke. Those thugs are easily taken care of by the Kings, no need for Securitrons. Heck, even some of these thugs actually worked for Orris, of which worked with a shady method not even approved by the King when he was found out doing it.
And I'm actually playing the game, and yes the Strip is exclusive, like I've said again and again because not just everyone should be able to wander the Strip so freely. The Squatters didn't worsened the issue; no, because they caused it. Remember that the water was once actually free? The Squatters taking up spaces made the locals mad, hence why the Kings started to charge for water; especially now that Bill Ronte got a whiskey addiction (which wasn't even Mr. House fault to begin with). The problem in Freeside wasn't there because Mr. House doesn't secure it, it's there because..... it's there. Jacob Hoff and Bill Ronte fucked up, because they fucked up, not because Mr. House doesn't 'secure' them.
And again, the Strip was exclusive for entertainment, not for arms-trade. Isn't it more beneficial for the Gun Runners to stay where they are, since it was closer to their factory? And the Van Graffs are part of the NCR. The New Vegas Treaty between Mr. House and the NCR proclaimed that no weapons for the NCR's personnel are allowed in the Strip. From there, why would there is any arms-trade in the Strip?
And Vault 21 was actually a part of the agreement. Just the other day I talked to Sarah Weintraub for my recent playthrough, she herself admitted that Mr. House approached them and offered a place in the outside world. Because of this, Vault 21's dwellers were split into 2 groups; pro-House and anti-House. One group wanted to work with Mr. House, the other refused. To settle this problem, both groups agreed to settle it the way they always settle problem: gambling. Pro-House wins, and so the dwellers exited the Vault and the Vault was then filled with concrete. Of course, with an extended contract, House agreed to leave the upper part of the Vault available for a business now managed by Sarah Weintraub. Her brother also actually agreed to work for Mr. House by making all those fancy signs you saw on the Strip. Is that a bad thing?
And you did asked why House don't open the Strip for more traders, hence why I mentioned why do we need more alcohol dealer in the Strip if the casinos provided that?
So? You realize that after... I don't know 200 years the chip could be anywhere? He's working off an assumption which payed off but could have failed. So yes there is luck. Luck that the chip stayed pretty much in the same area for two centuries. Big MT solves all problems in the wasteland, and while it's somewhat acceptable it really ruins the endings by making whoever owns it God. I'm not kidding, with the stuff in there you can become God. It's too overpowered in the way that it makes ANY fucking person the saviour. Hell Caesar gets it and suddenly he's great. NCR get's it and suddenly they're great. Goodsprings get's it and suddenly they're great. So... who's saying that me getting to choose my canon and non-canon is stupid? Also, it makes House even stupider, because it means Fallout 3 and 4 are canon.
And? Is it a bad thing? If not luck, what is it? Or did you just wanted to insist it was all luck, that it rendered Mr. House's future goal as 'just another dream'? It's either luck, or Mr. House is a pure genius.
I won't speak for Fallout 4, since I haven't played it. But some parts of Fallout 3 are, to a lesser extent, at least acceptable. Is it stupid that Liberty Prime is canonically made by Mr. House? Isn't that just proves that House is an actual expert in robotics? What do you think about how Obsidian would handle Liberty Prime, if they get their hands of him? From my perspective, Liberty Prime's destructive power, at least in Fallout universe, should only logically be on the same level as that of Archimedes I (or II?) in Helios ONE.
Heh, I don't see how much the Big MT would made someone a God. Mr. House proved that he managed to physically preserved the Las Vegas with his tech, and then helped the Three Families reformed, and with their help rebuilt the Strip. Isn't that practically what the Big MT could've achieved, if the Think Tank and Dr. Mobius weren't insane? I don't see overpowered anywhere.
That's not... look when you get threatened by a virtually indestructable army accepting is no longer an 'agreement'. It's just coercion. God, to you the agreement is everything isn't it? What is the fantastic Mr House suddenly bound to unbreakable agreement that acts as the law of the Mojave and limits him from helping others because the AGREEMENT (which he made) tells him he can't? I'm going to bed with the words agreement ringing in my head. I don't debate that the Great Khans or the Kings were exiled. You haven't talked about the other locals. Tribals? They were locals, they lived there. WHY DIDN'T HE DIRECT THEM? Oh wait, that fucking agreement again.
Fucking Christ, can you stop acting as if Mr House's agreement binds everyone to follow the law of House, ruler of the Strip and representative of Robco on this hallowed planet. He is the second coming, enacting holy laws for the betterment of Humanity. Ad hominem attacks, but your slavish devotion to the agreement kind of pisses me off. It's a contract from some time ago. It's time for change damn it.
But the agreement is THERE. It's a part of the game. The Strip folks talked about it, the Great Khans confirmed it, but you insisted it was some form of 'ultimatum'. Look at the Three Families, they are living a good life because they agreed to work for Mr. House. Mr. House is a man who lived by contract; he will do whatever part he have in the contract, and he expected others to do the same. Did you see any of his Securitrons invading people's space in each of the three casinos? Did you see any of the Securitrons bullying any of the NCR's soldier in the street of the Strip? Did you saw any of the Securitrons randomly shooting any of the locals in the Freeside who happened to pass by the entrance to the Strip?
And I've talked about the other locals. Do you want to talk about them again? Did you see any of them suffering and then went on to say, "Why did Mr. House not letting us into the Strip?" ? Just like I said before, check the history. They were locals, yes, but they were tribals. Being tribals means they would be easily annexed by the NCR or absorbed into the Legion. Mr. House is there offering another alternative, but they GOTTA AGREE TO WORK WITH HIM. If they don't, then they gotta leave, or just die.
And I agree it's time to change. Now that Mr. House finally have his Platinum Chip, and if we agree to work for him, he will finally have an army replacing the NCR's soldiers patrolling the Mojave. The Free Economic Zone of New Vegas proclaimed the Mojave for Mr. House, and because of that the route of to and from the Strip would be safer than ever because a Mark II Securitron alone can match a platoon of NCR soldier.
There are only two in the House Ending. Either he kills the Kings and leads to a power vaccum and the situation get's worse, or he leaves the kings and the situation get's worse. Let me explain it nice and slow. If the kings are left to do what they want... then what the hell have they been doing the last couple of years? Also the Followers ending (which explains the Freeside situation) says that if Mr House rules the place becomes worse in the Chaos, no matter what happens to the kings. So... all that hoping for a good ending? Ain't gonna happen.
Accusing The Kings of lying with a foreign invader for their newfound ties to the NCR, Mr. House punished them by ordering their forced removal. The Kings, defiant to the end, were destroyed to the last man by House's Securitrons.
The Kings were left alone:
During the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, some Kings took it upon themselves to launch several attacks on NCR citizens and soldiers around Freeside. Mr. House looked on these actions favorably, seeing them as proof of The Kings' loyalty to New Vegas, and decided to leave them alone
Where in this endings implies 'power vacuum' and, in case of being left alone, 'situation gets worse'? If House forcefully removed the Kings, he took Freeside for himself so there's no power vacuum. If he left them alone, that DOESN'T implies that the situation gets worse. If anything, the Kings being left alone means they now own Freeside even more, and it gets better. Freeside is stable, the last couple of years were stable thanks to the effort of both the Kings and the Followers. That is, until NCR's squatters started to take the local's space. Jacob Hoff and Bill Ronte, they fucked up on themselves.
And what happened from the Followers perspective is because, now that the conflict is over, there's an increase in tourist flooding New Vegas. With an increase in tourism, more people broke because they failed to 'make the big bucks' in the Strip. It's unfortunate that our help to the Followers, of looking for a steady supply of medicine and chems for them, doesn't affect the endings in any way. Besides, it doesn't matter if New Vegas gets ruled by Mr. House or go independent, it will be chaotic because of more tourist coming to New Vegas. The only good ending is probably them leaving the Mojave because Caesar respected them and admired them, or they manage to expand their services with the NCR since New Vegas lose its' potential as money dump without being independent or under Mr. House's direction.
It is fair AND there's a justification for it. You see, Mr. House offered the tribals a chance to reform, and that's a GOOD thing. The Chairmen, the Omertas, and the White Gloves..... look at where they are at now! Of course, they still had a problem, like the Omertas plotting with the Legion, the White Gloves top-brass had a difficulty letting go of their cannibalism, and the Chairmen's problem are only Benny. And those people getting kicked DID refused to reform. The Great Khans is a prime example. Now, do you see anyone, in Freeside, in Westside, the Kings, heck even anyone else who's native to Mojave talk shit about Mr. House and how he kicked them out 'just because'? There are none. If House isn't interested, how can he actually managed to help the Three Families reform to begin with? Bill Ronte and Jacob Hoff have those problem because of Atomic Wrangler, not because they aren't 'taken care of' by Mr. House. Crimes all over Freeside were also a fucking joke. Those thugs are easily taken care of by the Kings, no need for Securitrons. Heck, even some of these thugs actually worked for Orris, of which worked with a shady method not even approved by the King when he was found out doing it.
And I'm actually playing the game, and yes the Strip is exclusive, like I've said again and again because not just everyone should be able to wander the Strip so freely. The Squatters didn't worsened the issue; no, because they caused it. Remember that the water was once actually free? The Squatters taking up spaces made the locals mad, hence why the Kings started to charge for water; especially now that Bill Ronte got a whiskey addiction (which wasn't even Mr. House fault to begin with). The problem in Freeside wasn't there because Mr. House doesn't secure it, it's there because..... it's there. Jacob Hoff and Bill Ronte fucked up, because they fucked up, not because Mr. House doesn't 'secure' them.
And again, the Strip was exclusive for entertainment, not for arms-trade. Isn't it more beneficial for the Gun Runners to stay where they are, since it was closer to their factory? And the Van Graffs are part of the NCR. The New Vegas Treaty between Mr. House and the NCR proclaimed that no weapons for the NCR's personnel are allowed in the Strip. From there, why would there is any arms-trade in the Strip?
And Vault 21 was actually a part of the agreement. Just the other day I talked to Sarah Weintraub for my recent playthrough, she herself admitted that Mr. House approached them and offered a place in the outside world. Because of this, Vault 21's dwellers were split into 2 groups; pro-House and anti-House. One group wanted to work with Mr. House, the other refused. To settle this problem, both groups agreed to settle it the way they always settle problem: gambling. Pro-House wins, and so the dwellers exited the Vault and the Vault was then filled with concrete. Of course, with an extended contract, House agreed to leave the upper part of the Vault available for a business now managed by Sarah Weintraub. Her brother also actually agreed to work for Mr. House by making all those fancy signs you saw on the Strip. Is that a bad thing?
And you did asked why House don't open the Strip for more traders, hence why I mentioned why do we need more alcohol dealer in the Strip if the casinos provided that?
But... actually now I think about it, isn't it a bit convenient that all the tribals that reformed were the most powerful and influential? The Great Khans were weak migrants that left their main home, the Kings pretty much didn't exist really and the other locals were small time groups. Hmm... it seems that it's not a matter of refusing to join, it's a matter of House choosing the strongest to represent his interests. That actually fits the story better, explaining why the others especially the Khans were kicked out BUT not directly killed. I don't know, but it sure fits House better. That explains a damn lot, and shows how the rest were sidelined. They just weren't the bigshots on the Strip. What do you think? Jacob Hoff was drugged up from ILLEGAL drugs, but I admit Bill Ronte would have been a problem anywhere where alcohol was sold. Actually a lot of their problems are because one) House refuses to help the followers and two) House refuses to police the area (NCR have their hands full protecting Vegas from my buddies, Caesar and Lanius-boy). The Followers keep on saying so. Ughhhh, game abstraction dude, ever heard of it? If we follow your logic then the most dangerous veterans of the Legion and NCR rangers are pushovers just because you can beat them easy. Even in Vegas, the player is better then everyone else. 4 thugs do not represent the entire criminal community.
Why? House should know that's inefficient, he can turn over more of a profit by letting other traders get in as long as they pay their taxes. Last time I checked House was an autocratic businessman, not some Vegas idealist (even though he is a bit of one). No! If they set up in the strip they can ensure sales to top end customers (remember all that talk about the toll ensuring the well off could enter?), not bozos. Umm what? The Van Graffs are enemies to the NCR, they're change was entirely recent. Also embassy and monorail station much. So that's flawed! Actually it was a bit different then that... Mr House came in alone (ignore robot army) and gambled the whole thing. There's no evidence that it was divided on the matter (though most realistically it was, my point being Mr House gambled not some other 21ers). Exactly! If her brother could work their why not companies that turn more of a profit!
Let's forget the gun merchants, drug runners and other goods.
And? Is it a bad thing? If not luck, what is it? Or did you just wanted to insist it was all luck, that it rendered Mr. House's future goal as 'just another dream'? It's either luck, or Mr. House is a pure genius.
I won't speak for Fallout 4, since I haven't played it. But some parts of Fallout 3 are, to a lesser extent, at least acceptable. Is it stupid that Liberty Prime is canonically made by Mr. House? Isn't that just proves that House is an actual expert in robotics? What do you think about how Obsidian would handle Liberty Prime, if they get their hands of him? From my perspective, Liberty Prime's destructive power, at least in Fallout universe, should only logically be on the same level as that of Archimedes I (or II?) in Helios ONE.
Heh, I don't see how much the Big MT would made someone a God. Mr. House proved that he managed to physically preserved the Las Vegas with his tech, and then helped the Three Families reformed, and with their help rebuilt the Strip. Isn't that practically what the Big MT could've achieved, if the Think Tank and Dr. Mobius weren't insane? I don't see overpowered anywhere.
No it's luck, and I can point out MANY ways Mr House is far from genius. Do you want me to? Good, don't. Fallout 3 isn't too bad, but I doubt Mr House would create a military robot knowing full well how stupid it would be. I doubt the government (a collapsing one at that) can pay much better then other corporations or groups. Let's list how Big MT is insanely overpowered.
1. Machines that can create most anything from specialised gambling chips.
2. Invincible Hologram Armies.
3. Various genetically modified beasts.
4. Stealth armour.
5. Loads of weaponry.
6. Super Plants.
7. Super Robots.
8. Need I say more? A fucking massive robbot Radscorpion.
Yeah, they're totally not overpowered. They make House look like an idiot if they weren't insane.
But the agreement is THERE. It's a part of the game. The Strip folks talked about it, the Great Khans confirmed it, but you insisted it was some form of 'ultimatum'. Look at the Three Families, they are living a good life because they agreed to work for Mr. House. Mr. House is a man who lived by contract; he will do whatever part he have in the contract, and he expected others to do the same. Did you see any of his Securitrons invading people's space in each of the three casinos? Did you see any of the Securitrons bullying any of the NCR's soldier in the street of the Strip? Did you saw any of the Securitrons randomly shooting any of the locals in the Freeside who happened to pass by the entrance to the Strip?
And I've talked about the other locals. Do you want to talk about them again? Did you see any of them suffering and then went on to say, "Why did Mr. House not letting us into the Strip?" ? Just like I said before, check the history. They were locals, yes, but they were tribals. Being tribals means they would be easily annexed by the NCR or absorbed into the Legion. Mr. House is there offering another alternative, but they GOTTA AGREE TO WORK WITH HIM. If they don't, then they gotta leave, or just die.
And I agree it's time to change. Now that Mr. House finally have his Platinum Chip, and if we agree to work for him, he will finally have an army replacing the NCR's soldiers patrolling the Mojave. The Free Economic Zone of New Vegas proclaimed the Mojave for Mr. House, and because of that the route of to and from the Strip would be safer than ever because a Mark II Securitron alone can match a platoon of NCR soldier.
I know, I know but stop bringing it up like it was the word of God. It was an ultimatum. What do you think the penalty for refusing was? (thanks to my new theory I don't believe anyone refused, just that the smaller groups were sidelined because they were too weak) Actually it looks more and more like they were specifically chosen. They can't really enter most buildings. They can't because they're robots. Actually the whole 'have to agree to work for him' is insanely weak. Why would fairly rational people refuse where others joined? It makes no sense when you're confronted directly by this guy's military might. The idea of being sidelined due to being small fry makes a shit ton more sense as it explains why people stayed, why they weren't killed and why House ignored them. Hence Mr House was worse, he never game them the choice.
And then what? Starve out in the mojave from the lack of resources?
Accusing The Kings of lying with a foreign invader for their newfound ties to the NCR, Mr. House punished them by ordering their forced removal. The Kings, defiant to the end, were destroyed to the last man by House's Securitrons.
The Kings were left alone:
During the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, some Kings took it upon themselves to launch several attacks on NCR citizens and soldiers around Freeside. Mr. House looked on these actions favorably, seeing them as proof of The Kings' loyalty to New Vegas, and decided to leave them alone
Where in this endings implies 'power vacuum' and, in case of being left alone, 'situation gets worse'? If House forcefully removed the Kings, he took Freeside for himself so there's no power vacuum. If he left them alone, that DOESN'T implies that the situation gets worse. If anything, the Kings being left alone means they now own Freeside even more, and it gets better. Freeside is stable, the last couple of years were stable thanks to the effort of both the Kings and the Followers. That is, until NCR's squatters started to take the local's space. Jacob Hoff and Bill Ronte, they fucked up on themselves.
And what happened from the Followers perspective is because, now that the conflict is over, there's an increase in tourist flooding New Vegas. With an increase in tourism, more people broke because they failed to 'make the big bucks' in the Strip. It's unfortunate that our help to the Followers, of looking for a steady supply of medicine and chems for them, doesn't affect the endings in any way. Besides, it doesn't matter if New Vegas gets ruled by Mr. House or go independent, it will be chaotic because of more tourist coming to New Vegas. The only good ending is probably them leaving the Mojave because Caesar respected them and admired them, or they manage to expand their services with the NCR since New Vegas lose its' potential as money dump without being independent or under Mr. House's direction.
Look at the Followers ending please. So... Also how was it stable? It wasn't as bad but there's no evidence it was stable. Jacob Hoff suffered from a lack of funding for the Followers and lot's of crime such as drug selling. Ronte, yeah he could have suffered everywhere. Yeah agreed, I fucking hated how nothing you did really helped the Followers. Shame really. Freeside is better off with the NCR, and meh with the Legion. No crime that's for sure.
I know, I know but stop bringing it up like it was the word of God. It was an ultimatum. What do you think the penalty for refusing was? (thanks to my new theory I don't believe anyone refused, just that the smaller groups were sidelined because they were too weak) Actually it looks more and more like they were specifically chosen. They can't really enter most buildings. They can't because they're robots. Actually the whole 'have to agree to work for him' is insanely weak. Why would fairly rational people refuse where others joined? It makes no sense when you're confronted directly by this guy's military might. The idea of being sidelined due to being small fry makes a shit ton more sense as it explains why people stayed, why they weren't killed and why House ignored them. Hence Mr House was worse, he never game them the choice.
And then what? Starve out in the mojave from the lack of resources?
If we take what Benny says as any indication then the Boot Riders were strongly considering refusal, I think we can assume that a nomadic tribe called 'Boot Riders' were relatively small, so it must have been a choice.
