Why Robert Edwin House is the best hope for the wasteland and humanity

[Cobra Commander]

Off topic: do you think the Boomers can bomb Vegas to the ground?

They bomb the NCR pipelines once.

Maybe it is out of range?

 

[Apollyon]

And all of this has been discussed so many times since the beginning of this thread. I suggest you pick up the nearest counter-point in previous pages and start over from there man.

If you don't wish to discuss it again, why bother replying at all?

Anyways;
The end product when we enter the Mojave as the Courier is:
- That House has lost the Platinum Chip to Benny.

- The Three Families are scheming against him and he is unaware.

- The NCR and the Legion also want him dead, though he's probably aware of that fact.

- Most of Vegas is a slum, except the Strip.

Now, I disagree with the idea that Benny's betrayal is the only thing that prevented House's success. Another obvious hurdle is the fact that in order to use the Chip he needs to infiltrate Caesar's Legion's headquarters; something at which Benny failed, even with a Stealth Boy. Even if he could devise a plan, time isn't on his side considering the amount of enemies that he has made.

Secondly, the only part of Vegas that's worth mentioning, the Strip, has the sole purpose of robbing people of their money through drugs, alcohol, gambling and sex (all of these, highly addictive). It's a big cash grab and a lot of dialogue confirms this (i.e. Grub n Gulp, 188 Trading Post, amongst others). Is that inherently evil? Maybe. But considering the title of this thread is "Why Robert Edwin House is the best hope for the Wasteland and humanity", I'd say its relevant.

Lastly, for all New Vegas's strategic importance, House doesn't seem to have been able to leverage it in his favour. All the assets you name are out of his hands. In fact, by the time F:NV starts, House seems to be 'down on his luck' and the 'odds seem to be stacked against him'.

PS: Good point about the timeline. I will consider that in the future.

 

[Unorthodox Outlander]

Off topic: do you think the Boomers can bomb Vegas to the ground?

They bomb the NCR pipelines once.

Maybe it is out of range?

Considering that Mr. House had the ability to shoot down incoming nuclear missiles with laser cannons mounted on the roof of the Lucky 38, there's a chance that he could divert enough power to take down one measly plane (or at least damage it to a point where it's not coming back around for another run for quite some time without repairs).

Now, if you're talking about the artillery... the thing is, they've mostly been using them in a well-defended position with a relatively self-sufficient garrison. Try to move those artillery pieces into firing range of New Vegas will--unless they can somehow haul their entire stockpile with them--require a line of supply, and that could be interrupted given a competent opponent. The artillery itself will also be vulnerable, as it is--natural defenses and any makeshift ramparts aside--out in the open as opposed to a secure position well behind the first line of fences/guards.

Even if they don't get caught out in the open, then there's still the matter that taking artillery from Nelson Airbase to besiege Vegas would mean less at home for the purpose of defense, which would also bring up the question of whether enough the Boomers have enough functioning artillery to make the consequences negligible or if they're treading the fine line between enough to keep it up and more of a side-asset than anything else.

 

[Black Angel]

If you don't wish to discuss it again, why bother replying at all?

It wasn't that I didn't wish to discuss it again, but it's that I'm tired having to repeat the exact same points over and over again. The points you've made before has already been made countless times from since the beginning of this thread and among other similar threads before.

The end product when we enter the Mojave as the Courier is:
- That House has lost the Platinum Chip to Benny.

You forgot to mention the fact that the Chip is buried in the ruins of Sunnyvale, which is hundreds of miles away from the Mojave Wasteland. Him even finding the Chip at all, without anyone else but his current second-in-command realizing what he's doing all those times is a pretty impressive feat all by itself, I'd say. The fact that Benny interrupted the Chip's delivery is an error that Mr. House didn't really consider since he's planned to make Benny is protege.

- The Three Families are scheming against him and he is unaware.

This is another prime example of exact same point being made over and over again. I repeat, only one out of the Three Families are actually scheming against Mr. House at all, which is the Omertas. The Chairmen themselves are actually pretty contend with their current way of life and is comfortable working under Mr. House based on the fact that, if you expose Benny to them, they would make dialogue lines about how they've never seen Benny as a rat. Meanwhile, the White Gloves Society doesn't even do any politics outside their circles at all, aside from trying to get back to their old way of cannibalism. And even for that, they're actually torn into 2 factions (pro-cannibalism and anti-cannibalism).

- The NCR and the Legion also want him dead, though he's probably aware of that fact.

So?

- Most of Vegas is a slum, except the Strip.

The whole place is still a fucking warzone. Most of the settlements across the Mojave Wasteland were also in a state of stagnation because of it. Because of the treaty he assigned with the NCR, he could only pretty much holds the Strip at the moment. Sadly, the ending slides made no mention of New Vegas proper aside from Freeside, and for that I guess we can assume it's devs forgot to make one.

Now, I disagree with the idea that Benny's betrayal is the only thing that prevented House's success. Another obvious hurdle is the fact that in order to use the Chip he needs to infiltrate Caesar's Legion's headquarters; something at which Benny failed, even with a Stealth Boy. Even if he could devise a plan, time isn't on his side considering the amount of enemies that he has made.

I mean, aside from the fact that Benny's on the run from Mr. House, he's actually incompetent when left to his own device because he didn't make sure he's finished the job when shooting the Courier in the head. That, and panicking when he saw the Courier casually walked towards him at the Tops... Yeah, obviously he's gonna fail miserably trying to get the Chip to the Fort. I would say the whole story would be different, however, should he not interfere with the Chip's delivery and devise a plan with Mr. House to get the job done.

Secondly, the only part of Vegas that's worth mentioning, the Strip, has the sole purpose of robbing people of their money through drugs, alcohol, gambling and sex (all of these, highly addictive). It's a big cash grab and a lot of dialogue confirms this (i.e. Grub n Gulp, 188 Trading Post, amongst others). Is that inherently evil? Maybe. But considering the title of this thread is "Why Robert Edwin House is the best hope for the Wasteland and humanity", I'd say its relevant.

Personally, I couldn't care less about drugs, alcohol, gambling, and sex being part of the casinos, and too much of it for an individual is definitely inherently evil, but you're not looking at the bigger picture here. In a post-apocalyptic world, an infrastructure of the likes of New Vegas Strip is definitely a high profile one. The point of the Strip isn't just to drain anyone's caps, the point is to gather the much needed resources to finally get humanity back to its feet and go beyond that. If you've been paying attention to your dialogue with Mr. House all the way to the point after you're done talking with General Oliver, you would know what I'm talking about.

Lastly, for all New Vegas's strategic importance, House doesn't seem to have been able to leverage it in his favour. All the assets you name are out of his hands. In fact, by the time F:NV starts, House seems to be 'down on his luck' and the 'odds seem to be stacked against him'.

Again, the whole place is still a warzone at the time. Of course they're still out of his hands. He's but one man whose only properly working part of him is his brain. The Securitrons are fully occupied trying to keep order on the Strip, and Benny betraying him has robbed him of his opportunity to assign a protege that can represent him in the upcoming confrontation, hence why when the Courier arrive on the Strip seemingly raised from the dead he wasted no time offering him the vacant position. Help him in all the way you think is the best way to help him, and you'll see he is definitely the best hope for the wasteland and humanity.

 

[Ediros]

Just going to leave it here:

 

[Unorthodox Outlander]

Just going to leave it here:

Right, my thoughts on Oxhorn's points.

1. Taking out the local BOS is, in my opinion, a public service. There's no place for a bunch of self righteous bunker-dwellers--who are a shrinking minority at best--to decide what everybody else gets to have technology-wise. You don't even have to butcher them either--I usually just stick to setting off the self-destruct, imagining that anybody with a shred of competence will get the hell out while I quietly leave with a stealth-boy equipped.

2. His claim that the Kings are always killed by Mr. House no matter which route you take is either ignorant or an outright lie, as this depends on your decision to either bridge relations between the Kings and the NCR or escalate the existing tensions (in which they will drive the NCR out of Freeside and even be rewarded by House afterwards).

3. While the seizure of Vault 31 does have a rather... unpleasant air about it, there isn't anything that necessarily points to foul play. Mr. House won the bet, and the vault ownership was thus fairly-won collateral. As for shifting people out of the vault... It's not exactly pleasant, but I wouldn't exactly call it a terrible crime. It's not like House simply barged in and killed off the residents or threw them out without even bothering with any sort of negotiation. It's certainly a lot better than what happened to nearby Vault 3, at least.

4. Okay, a bunch of drivel about how other people were using Vegas territory while House was recovering from system failures. Said people were tribals--and given their backgrounds, hardly the gentle and just sort. The fact that said tribals were then whipped into shape and given ownership of the premier casinos of the Strip, with quite a bit of prestige and fortune along with it... More than a fair trade, I reckon. While the Kings are also one of the tribal groups that were impacted, they seem to be doing well enough for themselves in Freeside--hell, they wouldn't even have a city if it weren't for House's efforts before the Great War!

5. Regarding the "Invasion" of Freeside, House essentially ruled Vegas. The only real competitors were the NCR and the Legion--who both ALSO annexed Vegas in their respective endings, including Freeside. So... what the hell is he getting at? Also, good grief. The man plays it up like the securitrons are just massacring people on a whim. Greater injustice? Nonsense...

6. So... Fussing about House taking over Hoover Dam? The argument that he didn't build it or doesn't own if falls flat when it's not exactly "owned" in the most proper way by the NCR. Furthermore, taking the Dam gives him a guarantee against annexation. It is a massive bargaining chip meant to keep a retaliatory army from simply besieging Vegas once the Legion is driven off. As for charging for selling power and water?

Trade. Do you even know what it is, Oxhorn? You know about how for thousands of years nations haven't just shipped off their own resources to their neighbors for free, but in return for something else of value? The little tidbit on the whole conversion rate is also a bunch of guesswork with little actually backing it up. Emotional appeal fails in the face of logic, NEXT.

7. While I'm not exactly onboard with the whole autocrat bit, it's not exactly enough to condemn house when there isn't much else in the way of governance aside from local leaders and the notably corrupt/overextended NCR. More drivel about how "power corrupts."

8. The "human angle" of the Brotherhood of Steel doesn't matter. The current leader isn't going to live forever, and the massacre of the Follower's outpost by the rail-lines means that there is certainly a sub-faction of radicals that are plenty capable of influencing future decisions. Furthermore, their obsession with controlling technology is an overall detriment to the advancement of the Mojave. Again, it's not exactly a massacre if you just set off the self-destruct. Those that choose to stay..? They heard the warning well enough that their own deaths will be a byproduct of stubbornness or idiocy.

9. The BOS aren't civilians. The entire group is an isolated military "order", with some capable of doing more damage than others and a sizeable armory.


In short, I see a lot of "moral" and emotional reasoning, but even that falls flat when there isn't as much of a factual or logical nature to back it up.

 

[Apollyon]

This is the logic you need;
House acts like a warlord of the same colour as Caesar. He has a personality that can only be described as narcissistic and megalomaniacal. And he has a terrific sales pitch to influence a naive courier. There's nothing in the game that suggests House has the best interests of humanity at heart. Only his word. The question then becomes, why would you trust his word?
He's a businessman, only interested in making money (reinforced by the way he uses the Strip to drain money out of the population of the Mojave). RobCo made military equipment (hell, he probably contributed to the nukes that destroyed humanity) and household robots. Why would this person suddenly care about the fate of humanity more than filling his own pockets?
Benny expresses the same doubts about House's motives.
Another example of why House might not be trusted is the fact that House expresses he has no interest in "petty things" such as revenge. Yet, when the Courier threatens to destroy the Chip, he goes on to say he'd make it his sole mission in life to kill the Courier. He's not so "holier-than-thou" after all.
And in the end you need to ask yourself, do I trust a man whose actions have not indicated his good intentions, with the autocratic rule over all of humanity forever? That is to say, despite whether or not his (some would say questionable) sanity holds up.

 

[Black Angel]

Right, my thoughts on Oxhorn's points.

1. Taking out the local BOS is, in my opinion, a public service. There's no place for a bunch of self righteous bunker-dwellers--who are a shrinking minority at best--to decide what everybody else gets to have technology-wise. You don't even have to butcher them either--I usually just stick to setting off the self-destruct, imagining that anybody with a shred of competence will get the hell out while I quietly leave with a stealth-boy equipped.

2. His claim that the Kings are always killed by Mr. House no matter which route you take is either ignorant or an outright lie, as this depends on your decision to either bridge relations between the Kings and the NCR or escalate the existing tensions (in which they will drive the NCR out of Freeside and even be rewarded by House afterwards).

3. While the seizure of Vault 31 does have a rather... unpleasant air about it, there isn't anything that necessarily points to foul play. Mr. House won the bet, and the vault ownership was thus fairly-won collateral. As for shifting people out of the vault... It's not exactly pleasant, but I wouldn't exactly call it a terrible crime. It's not like House simply barged in and killed off the residents or threw them out without even bothering with any sort of negotiation. It's certainly a lot better than what happened to nearby Vault 3, at least.

4. Okay, a bunch of drivel about how other people were using Vegas territory while House was recovering from system failures. Said people were tribals--and given their backgrounds, hardly the gentle and just sort. The fact that said tribals were then whipped into shape and given ownership of the premier casinos of the Strip, with quite a bit of prestige and fortune along with it... More than a fair trade, I reckon. While the Kings are also one of the tribal groups that were impacted, they seem to be doing well enough for themselves in Freeside--hell, they wouldn't even have a city if it weren't for House's efforts before the Great War!

5. Regarding the "Invasion" of Freeside, House essentially ruled Vegas. The only real competitors were the NCR and the Legion--who both ALSO annexed Vegas in their respective endings, including Freeside. So... what the hell is he getting at? Also, good grief. The man plays it up like the securitrons are just massacring people on a whim. Greater injustice? Nonsense...

6. So... Fussing about House taking over Hoover Dam? The argument that he didn't build it or doesn't own if falls flat when it's not exactly "owned" in the most proper way by the NCR. Furthermore, taking the Dam gives him a guarantee against annexation. It is a massive bargaining chip meant to keep a retaliatory army from simply besieging Vegas once the Legion is driven off. As for charging for selling power and water?

Trade. Do you even know what it is, Oxhorn? You know about how for thousands of years nations haven't just shipped off their own resources to their neighbors for free, but in return for something else of value? The little tidbit on the whole conversion rate is also a bunch of guesswork with little actually backing it up. Emotional appeal fails in the face of logic, NEXT.

7. While I'm not exactly onboard with the whole autocrat bit, it's not exactly enough to condemn house when there isn't much else in the way of governance aside from local leaders and the notably corrupt/overextended NCR. More drivel about how "power corrupts."

8. The "human angle" of the Brotherhood of Steel doesn't matter. The current leader isn't going to live forever, and the massacre of the Follower's outpost by the rail-lines means that there is certainly a sub-faction of radicals that are plenty capable of influencing future decisions. Furthermore, their obsession with controlling technology is an overall detriment to the advancement of the Mojave. Again, it's not exactly a massacre if you just set off the self-destruct. Those that choose to stay..? They heard the warning well enough that their own deaths will be a byproduct of stubbornness or idiocy.

9. The BOS aren't civilians. The entire group is an isolated military "order", with some capable of doing more damage than others and a sizeable armory.


In short, I see a lot of "moral" and emotional reasoning, but even that falls flat when there isn't as much of a factual or logical nature to back it up.

House acts like a warlord of the same colour as Caesar.

Maybe, but it's important to know why they did what they did. Both wanted to bring humanity back into the fold of civilization and progress. The difference, however, is that Caesar relies on maintaining his lie; a lie of keeping the knowledge of the history of Ancient Roman Empire, and the truth of Ancient Roman Mythology from his followers. I vaguely remembered somewhere where it's said that, deep down inside of him, Caesar is afraid of being found out, especially considering his former occupation as a member of Followers of the Apocalypse, who are also keeping quite a huge volume of books that Caesar's true self, Edward Sallow, read. Even then, should he fall to his brain tumor, his Legion would fall apart despite of having an obvious successor.
Meanwhile, House relies on maintaining a good relationship with the citizens of NCR, without letting their government interfering with his plans. Hence all the political moves he made per the instructions he gave to the Courier (like preventing assassination of Kimball, so he can have a scapegoat to drive out NCR's military presence in the Mojave, while simultaneously letting its citizens to pour into his newly claimed territory).

As for what you might actually meant with House acting as a warlord like Caesar, I assume you meant with House reforming a bunch of tribal. I've addressed that kind of argument before, but long story short the obvious difference between House and Caesar there is that, while Caesar completely obliterated the tribal's former identity and turn them into a part of his slavery-driven society, House actually offered the tribal that occupied the ruins of Las Vegas freedom to choose. They can choose to work for him, leave the ruins of Las Vegas, or die.

He has a personality that can only be described as narcissistic and megalomaniacal.

Yeah sure, but does it affect his performance in any way or even at all? Again, refer to the posts in this thread that brought up his achievements so far. If he managed to do what he did, and there's even more to come should he have sufficient support and resources, would you really care? Not to mention I personally don't even get that he's actually narcissistic from all the conversations until someone pointed it out.

And he has a terrific sales pitch to influence a naive courier.

Any Courier with realistic worldview who paid attention to his past achievements would know House isn't just all talk. Again, refer to all of his achievements so far, from ever since before the Great War up until the moment the Courier get shot in the head.

There's nothing in the game that suggests House has the best interests of humanity at heart. Only his word. The question then becomes, why would you trust his word?

So Mr. House personally tried to at the very least keep Las Vegas and the surrounding Mojave landscape the nuclear rage of the Great War is not a best interest of humanity? Single-handedly reformed bunch of tribal into a group of civilized members of a proper society? Convinced the NCR to sign a treaty with him so that they wouldn't just pointlessly shed blood with the tribal formerly occupying the ruins of Las Vegas, only to get finished off by the Legion, who would also not properly addressed in fixing the Hoover Dam, and even though they might do it in time, it wouldn't work as good as when NCR's engineers fixed it with the help of Mr. House? All of that is 'nothing that suggest House has the best interests of humanity at heart."?

He's a businessman, only interested in making money (reinforced by the way he uses the Strip to drain money out of the population of the Mojave). RobCo made military equipment (hell, he probably contributed to the nukes that destroyed humanity) and household robots. Why would this person suddenly care about the fate of humanity more than filling his own pockets?

man, oh man, have you ever tried doing House-route, if only just once? Or at least tried to play through it and actually pay attention?

Benny expresses the same doubts about House's motives.

Benny is an incompetent fuck who only cared about having power, but not what to do with said power.

Another example of why House might not be trusted is the fact that House expresses he has no interest in "petty things" such as revenge. Yet, when the Courier threatens to destroy the Chip, he goes on to say he'd make it his sole mission in life to kill the Courier. He's not so "holier-than-thou" after all.

The Courier said: "Attack me and you risk destroying the Chip."
Mr. House said: "By the time I was 30 years old, I was a billionaire 30 times over. I founded and ran a vast economic empire. Do you really think I'm going to let an upstart come into my home and ransom my property to me? I spent two centuries searching for the Platinum Chip. It's my invention, my property - mine. Now be a good courier and deliver it!"

From http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/MrHouse.txt

Where does it says that House's going to make it his sole mission in life to kill the Courier should the Courier threatened to destroy the Chip?

 

[Unorthodox Outlander]

Where does it says that House's going to make it his sole mission in life to kill the Courier should the Courier threatened to destroy the Chip?

To be fair, the threat does come up should the Courier speak of destroying not the chip, but the securitron bunker (a.k.a. making it all go boom and permanently ruining his plans).

Do as I say, and your rewards will be immense. Thwart me, and your punishment will become the purpose of my existence.

 

[Cobra Commander]

Even then, should he fall to his brain tumor, his Legion would fall apart despite of having an obvious successor

Maybe. Marcus, Ulysses and Kris Kristofferson (forget his name. Halon? Haslon? Harlon? Harlon?) thinks that way.

Me? I think that after Caesar's death, if they lose the second battle, they return to the other side of the river, and ...... well, that's it, nothing happens. The morale would be pretty low though, but I'm sure the new Caesar would have no problem finding other worthy foes to fight.

Won is the bigger problem. Not enough man to hold east and west. Lanius is tribal by nature, What the hell does he understand about commanding an entire nation? of politics, economy? Of course, there are people to advise him, just like Conan when he became King. But probably Vulpes would poison his food lol.

Legion has good names to be the new Caesar. Gaius Magnum (10 in charisma and inteligence) and Lucius for example.

hell, he probably contributed to the nukes that destroyed humanity

??????????????????????

 

[Black Angel]

To be fair, the threat does come up should the Courier speak of destroying not the chip, but the securitron bunker (a.k.a. making it all go boom and permanently ruining his plans).

Fair enough. And I would say he turn around and say something like that because he's so close to achieving one of his major plan, that having it ruined simply because the guy he assigned to do it tried to fuck around.

Maybe. Marcus, Ulysses and Kris Kristofferson (forget his name. Halon? Haslon? Harlon? Harlon?) thinks that way.

Hanlon, and also Mr. House himself predicted that the Legion would fall apart within a year since Caesar's death should the Courier killed him. And I would say simply going by the ending slides of the Legion where Caesar dies and Lanius takes over, it's pretty much confirmed, for reasons I will elaborate below.

Me? I think that after Caesar's death, if they lose the second battle, they return to the other side of the river, and ...... well, that's it, nothing happens. The morale would be pretty low though, but I'm sure the new Caesar would have no problem finding other worthy foes to fight.

You have to look at how the Legion was established and sustained throughout its conquest of the East. There's simply no one like Caesar, and he doesn't even bother tutoring a potential successor or even, you know, using that thing between his legs. Most of his followers are also conditioned to follow orders to the letter, being a part of a slavery-driven society and all that. They might've proven much more capable in warfare compared even to the NCR (especially the NCR that neglected to listen to someone as competent as Hanlon), but when it comes to actually running a society? Even at peaceful times?

And what do you mean by, "would have no problem finding other worthy foes to fight."? Are you saying that Caesar's Legion exists to fight worthy foes? Or did you meant that in context of the 'new Caesar' being Lanius?

Won is the bigger problem. Not enough man to hold east and west. Lanius is tribal by nature, What the hell does he understand about commanding an entire nation? of politics, economy? Of course, there are people to advise him, just like Conan when he became King. But probably Vulpes would poison his food lol.

Hence why I personally think, after House, Caesar-ruled Legion ending is the second best ending of New Vegas, for wasteland and humanity. Caesar, despite of how he tried to maintain the lie and illusion of his slavery-driven society, really does have a noble goal of trying to get humanity back to its feet. By winning the Second Battle for Hoover Dam and rid himself of such dangerous obstacle like Mr. House, Caesar can finally establish his Pax Romana in form of the city of New Vegas; and from there, only a matter before they can let go of their slavery-driven style of society.

Legion has good names to be the new Caesar. Gaius Magnum (10 in charisma and inteligence) and Lucius for example.

Sadly, we don't know much of Gaius Magnus. Despite of having 11 (!) Charisma and 10 Intelligence, we really wouldn't know if Gaius would know much about leading and running a society. I'm kind of more inclined towards Lucius too, but I'm having second thought because I'm not sure what he thought about having Lanius taking over or if he even do anything about it. It's simply why I agree with the view that the Legion without Caesar would simply fall apart, unless he's established the Pax Romana and appoint a proper successor.

 

[Apollyon]

Yeah sure, but does it affect his performance in any way or even at all? Again, refer to the posts in this thread that brought up his achievements so far. If he managed to do what he did, and there's even more to come should he have sufficient support and resources, would you really care? Not to mention I personally don't even get that he's actually narcissistic from all the conversations until someone pointed it out.

We'll take this in two steps:
1. House is clearly a narcissist. His ego is through the roof, but he also lacks respect for anyone. Examples of this include his obituary, in which he refers to all inhabitants of the Mojave as "ingrates". And no one with a healthy ego would write such a thing about himself. Another example is how, when he refers to the future of mankind, he says this:

With all that money pouring in? Give me 20 years, and I'll reignite the high technology development sectors. 50 years, and I'll have people in orbit. 100 years, and my colony ships will be heading for the stars, to search for planets unpolluted by the wrath and folly of a bygone generation.

This is, in my opinion, one of the most telling pieces that show House's true nature. Not only does this show his desire to lord over mankind as a king, but it also shows he has no regard for the achievements of his underlings. It's "his" colony ships. His mankind. His snowglobe. It's not a coincidence that House likes robots. Robots do exactly as you tell them.

2. Why this matters. His ego and knowledge are the driving force behind his desire to revive mankind. The well-being of those he leads will always be of lesser importance to his own ego. The whole Mojave illustrates this perfectly. He drains the Mojave of caps to further his "grand plan". He doesn't care about all the suffering he causes by robbing people of their caps through gambling and addiction.

Narcissism and megalomania are considered bad leadership traits (also psychological disorders). House will force his view of the future onto his underlings without any respect for their wishes. It breaks with a fundamental principle of leadership: a leader should serve his people, not the other way around.

Does it affect his performance? First of all, he has no public support (the basis of leadership, if you're not doing it for the people you lead, who are you doing it for? In House's case; himself). When he dies, everyone expresses they're happy he's gone. Secondly, he's underestimates his opposition, because he thinks too highly of himself. Benny is an example, the Omertas are an example, the Courier is an example. He's a case of a bad leader whose intellect is the only thing that keeps him afloat. A leader with no friends, just enemies. A leader who thinks he needs nobody but themselves. That is, until they make a mistake. And then there's no one to fall back on. In fact, everybody's happy to see them fall. And that's exactly the situation he's in at the start of New Vegas.

Any Courier with realistic worldview who paid attention to his past achievements would know House isn't just all talk. Again, refer to all of his achievements so far, from ever since before the Great War up until the moment the Courier get shot in the head.

Vegas, a city that drains the Mojave of cash, is the product of his achievements and that is what we should judge his performance on. Not on what he has done or what he may or may not do in the future. The past no longer matters and for the future we only have his word.

So Mr. House personally tried to at the very least keep Las Vegas and the surrounding Mojave landscape the nuclear rage of the Great War is not a best interest of humanity? Single-handedly reformed bunch of tribal into a group of civilized members of a proper society? Convinced the NCR to sign a treaty with him so that they wouldn't just pointlessly shed blood with the tribal formerly occupying the ruins of Las Vegas, only to get finished off by the Legion, who would also not properly addressed in fixing the Hoover Dam, and even though they might do it in time, it wouldn't work as good as when NCR's engineers fixed it with the help of Mr. House? All of that is 'nothing that suggest House has the best interests of humanity at heart."?

He saved a single city, not the humans that lived inside it (to be fair, there's not much he could've done to save them from the aftermath) nor did he save humanity. But the idea that he did that out of the kindness of his heart is an assumption. The only one he managed to save was himself. Taking a look at the Lucky 38 and the Strip, the underground bunker, the platinum chip; It's a carefully laid out plan. Again the symbology of the snowglobe comes to mind. Considering all the technology, power and wealth at his disposal, he brought rather little to the post-apocalyptic Wasteland that has the potential to benefit other people.

As for the Three Families and the NCR; that's clearly political. He needed the Three Families to protect himself from the NCR, and the treaty he signed with the NCR might aswell have been called the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

man, oh man, have you ever tried doing House-route, if only just once? Or at least tried to play through it and actually pay attention?

Mr. House owned RobCo and REPCONN Aerospace before the Great War. Both developed military technology for the government and REPCONN specialized specifically in rocket manufacturing.

From the Wiki;
In 2075, Steeple stepped down from his position as vice president as the board voted against him and the company was acquired by RobCo Industries, following a disastrous accident during the test of REPCONN's newest type of rocket. Carl Rook became the next vice president and his first move was to enhance security around the company and initiate a weapons research program for Colonel Moretti of the US military. Later, Steve Reynolds, the cause of the accident (he pushed the R&D team too hard and cut corners) forced Senior Engineer Martin Neimeyer, who was aware of Reynold's role in the incident, to resign.

Everyone's free to draw their own conclusions, but it's not unthinkable that RobCo and REPCONN directly contributed to the Great War.

 

[Black Angel]

We'll take this in two steps:
1. House is clearly a narcissist. His ego is through the roof, but he also lacks respect for anyone. Examples of this include his obituary, in which he refers to all inhabitants of the Mojave as "ingrates". And no one with a healthy ego would write such a thing about himself.

Again, does this actually affect his performance in any way when he commit something to his cause? Especially not to mention he's been pretty reclusive throughout the years of interacting with the inhabitants of the post-post-post apocalyptic, why should anyone care of Mr. House being a narcissist, really?

Another example is how, when he refers to the future of mankind, he says this:

With all that money pouring in? Give me 20 years, and I'll reignite the high technology development sectors. 50 years, and I'll have people in orbit. 100 years, and my colony ships will be heading for the stars, to search for planets unpolluted by the wrath and folly of a bygone generation.

This is, in my opinion, one of the most telling pieces that show House's true nature. Not only does this show his desire to lord over mankind as a king, but it also shows he has no regard for the achievements of his underlings. It's "his" colony ships. His mankind. His snowglobe. It's not a coincidence that House likes robots. Robots do exactly as you tell them.

You must have pretty narrow-minded point of view to even paying attention only to those exact words House said. Why not the part where he 'reignite the high technology development sectors, have people in orbit, and getting the colony ships heading for the stars and search for planets unpolluted by the wrath and folly of a bygone generation.'? Also, look at it this way; if the New World is to lose an individual like Mr. House, there will be none of those high technology development sectors getting reignited, or people getting into the orbit, or any colony ships heading for the stars; at least nowhere close to the period of time needed that House promised. There might a chance for mankind to, say, reignite the hi-tech development sectors, but it will take longer than 20 years; not to mention it might not even be possible to even having people in orbit without House and the knowledge he gained from purchasing REPCONN. How could I say any of this? Well, again, refer to his past achievements that I've mentioned over and over again in this thread, from single-handedly prevented most of the nuclear missiles from hitting the Mojave landscape during the Great War, to slowly yet steadily recovering the Platinum Chip.

2. Why this matters. His ego and knowledge are the driving force behind his desire to revive mankind. The well-being of those he leads will always be of lesser importance to his own ego. The whole Mojave illustrates this perfectly. He drains the Mojave of caps to further his "grand plan". He doesn't care about all the suffering he causes by robbing people of their caps through gambling and addiction.

Correction = he drains the NCR of the caps to further his grand plan. Where do you think the inhabitants of the Mojave Wasteland get their bottlecaps, Sunset Sarsaparilla headquarters? And on the contrary for the inhabitants of the Mojave Wasteland, the people of the NCR coming and going to New Vegas actually brought caps, trades, and resources for everyone else living throughout the routes from Mojave Outpost to New Vegas proper, and back again.

Narcissism and megalomania are considered bad leadership traits (also psychological disorders). House will force his view of the future onto his underlings without any respect for their wishes. It breaks with a fundamental principle of leadership: a leader should serve his people, not the other way around.

Now, I wouldn't deny House narcissism, but where does he appears to be a complete megalomaniac? Because I'm sure as hell if he's actually one, he would completely assert his hold on power and domination. For example, no matter what the Kings do, he would completely wipe them out and take full control of Freeside, right? Turns out that is untrue, because if you escalate the conflict between the Kings and the NCR, House would see it as an act of loyalty by the Kings, so he leave them alone to, surprise surprise, control Freeside. If he's really a megalomaniac, he would assert complete control on Goodsprings instead of sending only Victor (who's now pretty familiar with the folks of Goodspring), or even assert complete control on Primm no matter if you assign Sheriff Meyers or Primm Slim to enforce the law in the town. And to finish off why House isn't a megalomaniac you think he is, I will quote a snippet of @Ragemage's old post from an old thread:

Actually no, Brivoo is right. Though I would compare House's reign more to a dual dictatorship than I would a 1 man rule thanks to the Courier having a say in pretty much all of House's decisions as said in the ending slide.

Does it affect his performance? First of all, he has no public support (the basis of leadership, if you're not doing it for the people you lead, who are you doing it for? In House's case; himself). When he dies, everyone expresses they're happy he's gone.

Yeah, and Caesar happens to have all of this 'public support', eh? And if you're talking about the NCR, I will simply repeat Mr. House's words to that, which is "look out the windows."
You also haven't properly addressed if it affects his performance. What say you to his past achievements, then? Preventing most of the nuclear missiles from hitting the Mojave landscape, single-handedly reformed bunch of tribal and then convinced the NCR to sign a treaty with him, and then slowly yet steadily have the Platinum Chip recovered and delivered to him (even though it only got as close as the location of Goodsprings before getting interrupted by Benny)? Does any of this speaks of a man whose performance is affected by his narcissism?

Secondly, he's underestimates his opposition, because he thinks too highly of himself. Benny is an example, the Omertas are an example, the Courier is an example. He's a case of a bad leader whose intellect is the only thing that keeps him afloat. A leader with no friends, just enemies. A leader who thinks he needs nobody but themselves. That is, until they make a mistake. And then there's no one to fall back on. In fact, everybody's happy to see them fall. And that's exactly the situation he's in at the start of New Vegas.

Again, Benny is actually his previous choice for a protege. Him turning against House is an error House admitted as his sole miscalculation so far. The Omertas have the Legion backing them, alone they wouldn't even dare. The Courier... well, the Courier is the player's character. I could easily say the Courier is the most absolute loyal subordinate of Mr. House, so the statement of the Courier being an opposition to Mr. House could be rendered null.

Vegas, a city that drains the Mojave of cash, is the product of his achievements and that is what we should judge his performance on. Not on what he has done or what he may or may not do in the future. The past no longer matters and for the future we only have his word.

Again, 'Vegas draining the Mojave of cash' is an absolutely false statement. And again, Hoover Dam getting fixed and once again running properly after 200 years of non-functioning is a part of his achievements.

He saved a single city, not the humans that lived inside it (to be fair, there's not much he could've done to save them from the aftermath) nor did he save humanity.

Again, wrong. He saved the whole Mojave landscape, because if what you say is true, then we wouldn't see towns like Goodspring, Primm, Nipton, and Novac being mostly intact (especially when the direct comparison of the presentation is an irradiated shithole of Washington D.C shown in Fallout 3). Yeah, there's not much he could've done to save them from the aftermath since he himself was knocked unconscious trying to prevent the missiles from hitting the surface of Mojave landscape, especially most of them would've gotten into the Vault, while the rest either turned into raiders and tribal, and/or settling in one of the surviving towns mentioned above. Not to mention that after sometime passed, some of the inhabitants of the Vault get to settle on a spot in the surface like the Boomers.
And yeah, he haven't save humanity yet, but he WILL save them should the Courier supported him properly.

But the idea that he did that out of the kindness of his heart is an assumption. The only one he managed to save was himself. Taking a look at the Lucky 38 and the Strip, the underground bunker, the platinum chip; It's a carefully laid out plan. Again the symbology of the snowglobe comes to mind. Considering all the technology, power and wealth at his disposal, he brought rather little to the post-apocalyptic Wasteland that has the potential to benefit other people.

*sigh* No one here is arguing that House is doing anything he have done 'out of the kindness of his heart'. We only pointed out that, based on his past achievements and the plans he revealed to you throughout following his route, his interest is the best hope for the wasteland and humanity. And of course it's all a carefully laid out plan, AND a realistic one at that. House know he wouldn't get to the point on time of preventing the Great War altogether, so instead he worked to save what little he at least can.

As for the Three Families and the NCR; that's clearly political. He needed the Three Families to protect himself from the NCR, and the treaty he signed with the NCR might aswell have been called the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

And? What do you suggest he do that will show you he have the best interests of humanity at heart? Drive away all the tribal formerly occupying the ruins of Las Vegas, killing any who don't comply, and then welcome the NCR with only a handful of outdated robots? Again, you're not seeing it the right way, so let me point out to you the scenario where House is not in the picture:

1. The NCR are advancing towards the ruins of Las Vegas, having also scouted the Hoover Dam
2. They meet with the tribal who occupied the ruins, what do you think would happen there, huh? Bloodshed. Pointless bloodspilling, simply because the NCR have nothing else to offer to tribal, and the tribal see no point in reacting in any way other than violence (especially considering the biggest tribal group at the time is the Great Khan).
3. No matter the outcome, the winner will be finished off by the Legion.
4. The Legion being the way it is, however, wouldn't find a way to properly utilize Hoover Dam. Again, they might do, in time. But it sure as hell would take much, much longer compared to if the NCR, together with the help of Mr. House, fixed the Dam.

Now, do you think the fixing of Hoover Dam is solely for the benefit of Mr. House? Surely you wouldn't, right?

Mr. House owned RobCo and REPCONN Aerospace before the Great War. Both developed military technology for the government and REPCONN specialized specifically in rocket manufacturing.

From the Wiki;
In 2075, Steeple stepped down from his position as vice president as the board voted against him and the company was acquired by RobCo Industries, following a disastrous accident during the test of REPCONN's newest type of rocket. Carl Rook became the next vice president and his first move was to enhance security around the company and initiate a weapons research program for Colonel Moretti of the US military. Later, Steve Reynolds, the cause of the accident (he pushed the R&D team too hard and cut corners) forced Senior Engineer Martin Neimeyer, who was aware of Reynold's role in the incident, to resign.

Everyone's free to draw their own conclusions, but it's not unthinkable that RobCo and REPCONN directly contributed to the Great War.

Holy shit, we're hitting a level of tin-foil hat conspiracy theory right here. I'm surprised Brycen didn't participate in this thread any sooner.

Now, if you even bother checking out the wikipage for RobCo Industries, nowhere does it says the company is developing military technology for the government. Sure, they developed some military-based robots, but I doubt they are in any scale or even relevant at all to everything that leads to the Great War. Meanwhile, the REPCONN Aerospace specialized in making rockets with the purpose of space travels. It's even right there in their name, 'Aerospace'. Aerospace has nothing to do with anything that can directly contribute to the Great War, if that's what you think. Even then, I doubt that weapon research program they initiated after being acquired by RobCo would still have anything to do with the Great War. Why? Because it's doubtful that 2 years is enough to for 2 companies to simply have anything meaningful in the scale of the Great War, especially considering most nations has already been hoarding their arsenal of nuclear weapons for who knows how long.

It's just inconceivable that a company specialized in robotics, who then acquired a company specialized in technology meant for space travel, would then worked for 2 years to contribute anything towards the conclusion that is the Great War, especially considering the cause for Great War has been happening far longer than that.

 

[Cobra Commander]

House is a captain of the Industry. And as such, it only thrives if mankind also thrives, money needs to flow. Does it really matter if it's for his own benefit? It clearly matters to you.

Who should rule Vegas then? Someone with a good heat with put the good of others above all?

Someone like Julie Farkas, and the rest of the Followers? The ones who indirectly brought the drug problems to Mojave? (They can not even help their own addicts, Bill Ronte and Jacob)

The same ones that gave Benny a securitron ready to hack the Lucky 38?

I give 5 years of government in the hands of these idiots to Vegas implode in a civil war.

 

[President_Peaches]

I don't get how Mr House will magically save humanity with his technology- he might take humans to the stars, but the rest of humanity will be left on earth. The population has been severely pruned by the nuclear war and subsequent hardships, but it is still unlikely that there will be a seat for every human on earth on those spaceships. (That goes for IRL Elon Musk lovers as well) Besides, how useful would it actually be to set up a space colony? Its been 200 years since the bombs fell, though there is still patches of high radioactivity, there's plenty more places that are more or less habitable, such as the Mojave, California, Zion, most of the Legion's territory etc.

 

[Black Angel]

House is a captain of the Industry. And as such, it only thrives if mankind also thrives, money needs to flow. Does it really matter if it's for his own benefit? It clearly matters to you.

That's why the notion of House having anything to do with the Great War is absurd. Apollyon him(her?)self already pointed out that House is a businessman. If anything, the man would benefit far more from the prevention of a global scale nuclear holocaust, especially since House himself has stated that he has a vast economic empire and is a billionaire 30 times over at only age 30. It would benefit the businessman in House with having more customer who's alive rather than dead, expanding upon his already pre-War vast economic empire instead of starting over with the plan he procured upon re-entering the world stage.

Oh, and that weapon research program initiated when REPCONN was acquired by RobCo? Turns out its purpose is actually to manufacture a replacement for the aging designs of the currently utilized plasma rifle. The fruit of the research is a prototype in form of Q-35 Matter Modulator we see in New Vegas.

I don't get how Mr House will magically save humanity with his technology- he might take humans to the stars, but the rest of humanity will be left on earth. The population has been severely pruned by the nuclear war and subsequent hardships, but it is still unlikely that there will be a seat for every human on earth on those spaceships. (That goes for IRL Elon Musk lovers as well) Besides, how useful would it actually be to set up a space colony? Its been 200 years since the bombs fell, though there is still patches of high radioactivity, there's plenty more places that are more or less habitable, such as the Mojave, California, Zion, most of the Legion's territory etc.

How does this even get to happen? "He take humans to the stars, but the rest of humanity will be left on earth."? How does that even work?

Anyway, from his sentence he doesn't really imply of completely abandoning earth behind; it's just that sending colony ships away from earth is his grand plan of a solution to prevent anything like the Great War from happening ever again. We know that famine and starvation is still a problem in the post-apocalyptic world, at least in NCR, and I would assume House has the knowledge of it, hence his plan of sending people to the orbit and colony ships to other planets as a part of his solution to those problems.

 

[Apollyon]

Again, does this actually affect his performance in any way when he commit something to his cause? Especially not to mention he's been pretty reclusive throughout the years of interacting with the inhabitants of the post-post-post apocalyptic, why should anyone care of Mr. House being a narcissist, really?

Because you're proposing to make him dictator of the Mojave. I'd say his psychological profile is rather relevant. Unless you think any old psychopath should be ruler as long as "it doesn't affect their performance"? You don't consider zero popular support a measure of his performance? Giving House the capacity to rule without anyone agreeing with him doesn't strike you as something that should be avoided?

You must have pretty narrow-minded point of view to even paying attention only to those exact words House said. Why not the part where he 'reignite the high technology development sectors, have people in orbit, and getting the colony ships heading for the stars and search for planets unpolluted by the wrath and folly of a bygone generation.'? Also, look at it this way; if the New World is to lose an individual like Mr. House, there will be none of those high technology development sectors getting reignited, or people getting into the orbit, or any colony ships heading for the stars; at least nowhere close to the period of time needed that House promised. There might a chance for mankind to, say, reignite the hi-tech development sectors, but it will take longer than 20 years; not to mention it might not even be possible to even having people in orbit without House and the knowledge he gained from purchasing REPCONN. How could I say any of this? Well, again, refer to his past achievements that I've mentioned over and over again in this thread, from single-handedly prevented most of the nuclear missiles from hitting the Mojave landscape during the Great War, to slowly yet steadily recovering the Platinum Chip.

Why bother with this response when you later agree House is a narcissist? House is a narcissist, and you say you agree, so just agree.
If you keep adding in new points of discussion in random places, this discussion will become even more cumbersome than it already is.

Correction = he drains the NCR of the caps to further his grand plan. Where do you think the inhabitants of the Mojave Wasteland get their bottlecaps, Sunset Sarsaparilla headquarters? And on the contrary for the inhabitants of the Mojave Wasteland, the people of the NCR coming and going to New Vegas actually brought caps, trades, and resources for everyone else living throughout the routes from Mojave Outpost to New Vegas proper, and back again.

Draining the Mojave of cash (clearly the casinos don't discriminate, so it's silly to say it just hits the NCR) so House can fuel a robot army to oppress the people of New Vegas is a positive thing, because it brought the 188 Slop & Shop and the Grub 'n Gulp.... Ok. Can't say I agree.

Now, I wouldn't deny House narcissism, but where does he appears to be a complete megalomaniac? Because I'm sure as hell if he's actually one, he would completely assert his hold on power and domination. For example, no matter what the Kings do, he would completely wipe them out and take full control of Freeside, right? Turns out that is untrue, because if you escalate the conflict between the Kings and the NCR, House would see it as an act of loyalty by the Kings, so he leave them alone to, surprise surprise, control Freeside. If he's really a megalomaniac, he would assert complete control on Goodsprings instead of sending only Victor (who's now pretty familiar with the folks of Goodspring), or even assert complete control on Primm no matter if you assign Sheriff Meyers or Primm Slim to enforce the law in the town. And to finish off why House isn't a megalomaniac you think he is, I will quote a snippet of @Ragemage's old post from an old thread:

That has nothing to do with megalomania.

Yeah, and Caesar happens to have all of this 'public support', eh?

Caesar has people who willingly give their lives for his Legion. If that isn't popular support, I don't know what it.
Whether the NCR has popular support is of lesser importance, because the NCR votes for who they want president, so if they're unhappy, it's their own fault.
Why does it matter so much for House, then? Because siding with him means potentially condemning all the Mojave (if not larger parts of the US) to his rule FOREVER, without his underlings being able to lift a finger to him.

Now, if you even bother checking out the wikipage for RobCo Industries, nowhere does it says the company is developing military technology for the government.

"The assaultron robot was constructed by RobCo and sold to the US Military as a front-line wartime combatant. It is fast and deadly at close range, and employs a devastating laser at a distance. The dominator variant can enable stealth technology."

"Carl Rook became the next vice president and his first move was to enhance security around the company and initiate a weapons research program for Colonel Moretti of the US military."

Clearly Robert House is contributing to weapons development of the U.S. goverment.


Anyhow, this conversation is getting pretty cumbersome. You seem to be misinterpreteing/misrepresenting some of my posts, and adding in new things which weren't part of the discussion to begin with. Please stick to the points and write concise responses.

 

[Ediros]

Because you're proposing to make him dictator of the Mojave. I'd say his psychological profile is rather relevant. Unless you think any old psychopath should be ruler as long as "it doesn't affect their performance"? You don't consider zero popular support a measure of his performance? Giving House the capacity to rule without anyone agreeing with him doesn't strike you as something that should be avoided?



Why bother with this response when you later agree House is a narcissist? House is a narcissist, and you say you agree, so just agree.
If you keep adding in new points of discussion in random places, this discussion will become even more cumbersome than it already is.



Draining the Mojave of cash (clearly the casinos don't discriminate, so it's silly to say it just hits the NCR) so House can fuel a robot army to oppress the people of New Vegas is a positive thing, because it brought the 188 Slop & Shop and the Grub 'n Gulp.... Ok. Can't say I agree.




That has nothing to do with megalomania.



Caesar has people who willingly give their lives for his Legion. If that isn't popular support, I don't know what it.
Whether the NCR has popular support is of lesser importance, because the NCR votes for who they want president, so if they're unhappy, it's their own fault.
Why does it matter so much for House, then? Because siding with him means potentially condemning all the Mojave (if not larger parts of the US) to his rule FOREVER, without his underlings being able to lift a finger to him.



"The assaultron robot was constructed by RobCo and sold to the US Military as a front-line wartime combatant. It is fast and deadly at close range, and employs a devastating laser at a distance. The dominator variant can enable stealth technology."

"Carl Rook became the next vice president and his first move was to enhance security around the company and initiate a weapons research program for Colonel Moretti of the US military."

Clearly Robert House is contributing to weapons development of the U.S. goverment.


Anyhow, this conversation is getting pretty cumbersome. You seem to be misinterpreteing/misrepresenting some of my posts, and adding in new things which weren't part of the discussion to begin with. Please stick to the points and write concise responses.

No offence, but get assaultron shit out of here. I do not want any lore from bugthesda in this discussion.

 

[Apollyon]

No offence, but get assaultron shit out of here. I do not want any lore from bugthesda in this discussion.

Replace Assaultron with Sentry Bot, Mr. Gutsy, whatever. The bottomline is, RobCo clearly developed weapons for the U.S. military.

 

[Black Angel]

Because you're proposing to make him dictator of the Mojave. I'd say his psychological profile is rather relevant. Unless you think any old psychopath should be ruler as long as "it doesn't affect their performance"? You don't consider zero popular support a measure of his performance? Giving House the capacity to rule without anyone agreeing with him doesn't strike you as something that should be avoided?

Spoiler

Nah, I'm more inclined toward Ragemage's view that a House-ruled Vegas is more like a dual dictatorship between House and the Courier. And how's House a 'psychopath'? Also, now that I think about it, House doesn't exactly have zero popular support. Again, if you paid attention to dialogue lines of the Chairmen at the Tops, most of them are actually pretty comfortable working under House. The White Gloves Society might have an internal problem regarding cannibalism, but I'd say they also have no problem supporting House considering the condition they get to live in. Also, again, you have to look at the reality that transpired across the game. Despite of having recruited and reformed 3 groups of tribal to help managing the Strip, House has always been reclusive when interacting with other human beings. Don't forget that the Courier is literally the first human being to enter the Lucky 38 in 200 years; not even Benny get to enter that building. Do you think a guy who's mostly working behind the scene can have popular support like Kimball? House as a leader can't be judged in the same measure as any other faction leaders considering his circumstances.

It's also why, I think, that House immediately began to open up, at least to the Courier, when the Courier first enter the Strip. He's finally serious about having a protege, and the way he directed the Courier to deal with the Three Families and the Boomers, I'd say he meant to have the Courier as his 'face' to be seen by the public.

Why bother with this response when you later agree House is a narcissist? House is a narcissist, and you say you agree, so just agree.

Because you're trying to paint House's narcissism as a bad point when the fact is that it doesn't really affected his performance so far, except for people like you who paid attention more to who's saying things instead of the things being said. I'm not sure if I've already said it, but I'll say it now: I won't deny that House is a narcissist, but I don't really care considering, again, it doesn't really affected his performance from before the game begins and all the way until the very last conversation with him.

Draining the Mojave of cash (clearly the casinos don't discriminate, so it's silly to say it just hits the NCR) so House can fuel a robot army to oppress the people of New Vegas is a positive thing, because it brought the 188 Slop & Shop and the Grub 'n Gulp.... Ok. Can't say I agree.

*sigh* Look, do you have any evidence in the game where it shows or says that the folks at Goodsprings, Primm, and Novac ever complaining how, 'the casinos in the Strip is draining my caps!'? Because it's sure as fucking hell that the very existence of the Strip is attracting the tourists in form of the citizens of the NCR, who's coming and going there passing those towns mentioned above and back again, bringing with them traders like the Crimson Caravans and the Gun Runners, workers like engineers working on Hoover Dam, etc etc..

And yes, bringing trades to places like 188 trading post because http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/188Samuel.txt

The Courier: "Why's business so good here?"
Samuel: "When 15 shut down, 95 became the route NCR citizens use to get to the Strip - or limp back home, after the Strip's drained 'em of caps. We get 'em coming and going. Coming, the suckers flush with caps they saved to gamble on the Strip...and going, the same folks, but now they're losers who'll trade you the shirt off their backs so they don't starve before they make it back home. Add in the troopers marching back and forth from McCarran and the Dam, and well, let's just say we don't miss Primm.

Will you look at that. Samuel specifically said 'NCR citizens'. Meanwhile, from looking at Fitz and Lupe's dialogue from Fallout Gamepedia, it seems like they aren't faring as good as the folks at 188, but at least they get travelers like the Courier from time to time, and I think they will fare better once the Second Battle for Hoover Dam is over and tourists starts to pour into the Mojave in a greater number than before.

That has nothing to do with megalomania.

Really? Define megalomania, then. I'm not a native-English speaker.

Caesar has people who willingly give their lives for his Legion. If that isn't popular support, I don't know what it.

Except those who's willingly give their lives for the Legion are conditioned to be so. They have their former identity and past forcefully obliterated and given a new identity and purpose, without being let to see any alternatives. And Caesar really have no popular support in the Mojave, because little to none of them are actually looking forward of being enslaved by the Legion.

Why does it matter so much for House, then? Because siding with him means potentially condemning all the Mojave (if not larger parts of the US) to his rule FOREVER, without his underlings being able to lift a finger to him.

The ending slides disagree with you http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_endings

Spoiler

Mr. House showed little interest on the Boomers, who eventually began venturing out of² Nellis to meet and trade with travelers

After Mr. House gained control of New Vegas, he sent a Securitron to Goodsprings as a token of appreciation for helping the Courier. Victor was a mixed blessing, however, as he continually monitored the town for Mr. House.

During the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, some Kings took it upon themselves to launch several attacks on NCR citizens and soldiers around Freeside. Mr. House looked on these actions favorably, seeing them as proof of The Kings' loyalty to New Vegas, and decided to leave them alone.

Though Novac was a low-priority target for the Legion, many of Novac's citizens died in its defense. In the weeks that followed, several Bright Followers returned to Novac to help restore its defenses, allowing it to remain independent of the NCR

After Hoover Dam, Sheriff Meyers runs Primm with his own style of frontier justice. He deals with most folks fairly, but now and then someone winds up dead with little to no evidence against them. *or* Primm Slim proves to be an able-minded, if not able-bodied, sheriff for Primm. Due to his slow speed, some crooks get away without a scratch, but Primm continues to prosper under his watchful robotic eye.

If what you're saying is true, and a House-ruled Vegas means condemning *all* of the Mojave (if not larger parts of the US), then shouldn't these endings slides speaks of it? Yes, it can happen, as showed by

Accusing The Kings of lying with a foreign invader for their newfound ties to the NCR, Mr. House punished them by ordering their forced removal. The Kings, defiant to the end, were destroyed to the last man by House's Securitrons.

Flush with his victory, Mr. House sent Securitrons into Freeside, thinking to increase his control over the area. When fighting broke out, The Kings fought valiantly, but were no match for the armored killing machines, and were wiped out to the last man.

and

Despite NCR's pledge to support Primm, they abandon the town after their loss to Mr. House. As repayment for their NCR loyalty, Mr. House sends Securitrons to Primm to "protect" it and collect heavy taxes from its citizens.

But notice that they happen either because you don't complete the Kings questline or because you helped the Kings (and also Primm) reconciling with the NCR. It sucks for the Kings should you reconcile them with the NCR, but I've discussed it before and it's not exactly relevant to the points you've made.

And yes, there's also this ending slide

Mr. House's Securitron army took control of Hoover Dam and the Strip, pushing both the Legion and the exhausted NCR out of New Vegas. Mr. House continued to run New Vegas his way, a despotic vision of pre-War glory. The streets were orderly, efficient, cold. New Vegas continued to be the sole place in the wasteland where fortunes were won and lost in the blink of an eye.

But notice that it spoke specifically of New Vegas, not the Mojave.

"The assaultron robot was constructed by RobCo and sold to the US Military as a front-line wartime combatant. It is fast and deadly at close range, and employs a devastating laser at a distance. The dominator variant can enable stealth technology."

"Carl Rook became the next vice president and his first move was to enhance security around the company and initiate a weapons research program for Colonel Moretti of the US military."

Clearly Robert House is contributing to weapons development of the U.S. goverment.

Replace Assaultron with Sentry Bot, Mr. Gutsy, whatever. The bottomline is, RobCo clearly developed weapons for the U.S. military.

I've already said that RobCo developed military-based robots, and RobCo's customer aren't U.S. government and military only, but again, the notion that House, RobCo, and the relatively recently acquired REPCONN have anything to do with the Great War is absurd. It's as absurd as saying that the aliens started the Great War.

Also, I've already given a new response regarding that weapon research program for Colonel Moretti, which is actually a new model of plasma rifle as seen in the game, so once again thinking that it has anything to do with the Great War is obnoxious.

Anyhow, this conversation is getting pretty cumbersome. You seem to be misinterpreteing/misrepresenting some of my posts, and adding in new things which weren't part of the discussion to begin with. Please stick to the points and write concise responses.

Would you point out which part of your posts I misinterpreted/misrepresented? And which new things that aren't part of the discussion that I added?