Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
Creating a stable and long lasting civilisation; of course the Legion could do this as well but they'd do it at the expense of NCR, while House does it cleanly.
Why Robert Edwin House is the best hope for the wasteland and humanity
- Thread starter Throatpunch
- Start date
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Umm... what?
How can he make a civilization out of the Mojave? Having a rich city just won't cut it.
Black Angel
Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus
Well, for starters, reforming a bunch of tribal and gangs (with their willingness and cooperation, nonetheless) and rebuilding the Strip were already a start of a civilization. For him, New Vegas isn't just a 'rich city'. Like he said, "New Vegas is more than a city - it's the remedy to mankind's derailment. The city's economy is a blast furnace in which can be forged the steel of a new rail line, running straight to a new horizon." With all those money, he can begin to approach his goals and visions for the future of mankind, starting from the closest one; the train.
On top of that, his effort of stopping 68 out of 77 nuclear warheads targeted toward Las Vegas and the rest of Mojave landscape also allowed for other form of civilization and society to rise from the ashes of the Great War and continue to flourish, like Goodsprings, Primm, and Novac, so it isn't like it's impossible for the Strip to survive without the NCR. New Vegas also attracted many traders and merchants company (which, unfortunately, most of them has been annihilated, brought down, and/or bought out by Van Graffs-Crimson Caravan alliance), so more points for Mojave flourishing into better civilization under Mr. House's direction and the Courier's handiwork.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Money does not equal=civilisation. Otherwise we would have Targetopia or Apple Kingdom.
Except there was civilization IN OTHER places. Fat lot he did for them. Except you haven't answered how he could get the resources from the Mojave, expand and form an empire or kingdom.
Black Angel
Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus
But money can be a drive for civilization. Demand and supply, it's all basic. With the Dam (that he can get it to work better than the NCR) and possibly Helios ONE, he can use the power for many industrial work, and maybe trade the surplus to the NCR in the west. And then, everything just fall in place and flow steadily as he approach his goal.
And I did say there were other form of civilization, like Goodsprings, Primm, and Novac. What else can he do with them? It's obvious with Goodsprings and Primm sitting in the shortest route from Mojave Outpost to New Vegas, he would be securing those route while letting them thrive and flourish even better, since he didn't impose heavy taxes on them. The Boomers? He show little interest for them, because he now treated them the same as the rest of the Mojave; Citizens of the Free Economic Zones of New Vegas. Outer Vegas like Freeside, Westside, North Vegas Square, and Eastside? We've already argued they will be made part of the Strip in time, since the only ones who found them become chaotic were the Followers of the Apocalypse, who can't see the fact that it was a side effect of the Strip having its' potential fully realized. Of course, we didn't get the ending slides for Westside, Eastside, and North Vegas, but so does when we support any other factions or when we go Independent.
And regarding resources, we already discussed it in the last 3-4 pages, so I'd rather let you read them instead of having to repeat it myself.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
That's true, but it's being rich alone is not enough. Industrial works? To have that you need factories and materials. Mr House has neither. Am I hearing a, Step 1. Steal Underpants, Step 2. ???? and Step 3. Profit!!! plan here?
Those cities barely scrape by alone, and won't be able to lay the foundations of large cities without industry and lots of settlers. At least do a summary of it.
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
He does have plans to reignite the high tech development sectors, eventually even expanding to interplanetary mining operations.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Plans. And how would he do it? He needs materials for god's sakes and factories.
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
He has endless amounts of scrap and a practically infinite workforce, with that he can create factories and from there he can slowly work towards manufacturing rockets, after which he can mine on Mars, the Moon or asteroids and experience life with endless resources.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
...
It takes a shit ton of metal to make a factory, produce things with and keep it running. Scrap medal won't suffice at all, and it's not even endless. It can easily be measured in tons. And no not really. New Vegas does not have infinite workers. So no not really.
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
I think you're underestimating the scrap potential of Repconn, Sunset Sarsaparilla HQ, Black Mountain and, Hidden Valley, with those places either deserted or destroyed House can sweep in, repurpose and restore any useful tech and make a factory thusly.
Considering the limited area of the Mojave, House can only make a modest industrial sector, there are enough unemployed workers in Vegas to fill those factories. Even if there is a worker shortage there's always NCR immigrants and Legion refugees to fill factories with.
Black Angel
Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus
But he's not the only one being rich. Like I said, he would first start to get the rest of the Mojave's welfare taken care of. Only implied a little in the ending slides but it's there, and he also admitted that he'd rather let people do whatever they want, so long as they didn't hinder his goals; or, better yet, agree to cooperate with him.
1. With Mr. House gain full control of the region, fully upgraded OS and Mark II Securitron army thanks to the Chip, he can get them to police the entirety of the Mojave wasteland in place of the NCR's military forces, and he obviously can do better since a Mark II Securitron can match an entire NCR's platoon.
2. Since he will be policing the Mojave, his relationship with the towns across the wasteland would depend on how you interacted with those towns e.g Goodsprings would just ignored altogether if you wiped them out (Run Goodsprings, Run!); or they thrived since the northern part of the town would be cleansed of Deathclaws and Cazadors thanks to the Securitrons, with an addition of Victor placed in Goodsprings (albeit he's creepy for the townsfolk because he monitored them for Mr. House). Primm would be left alone to flourish, if you assign Meyers or Primm Slim as the Sheriff, but he would wipe them out if you let the NCR to annex them. Novac kind of vague, since mostly they manage to stay independent, but there was also no ending slides of them being wiped out at all.
3. Thanks to that, Goodsprings can establish a relationship with New Vegas and traders coming from the Mojave Outposts with a readily clean source of water and sustainable farming for food sources. Primm can provide casino experience so far away from the Strip, and also trading and Mojave Express. Novac.... kind of vague, also, but I imagine Dino Dee-lite motel can be a good source of business for the townsfolk, and attract tourists to stay in the motel as they make their way to the Strip or from there. Like I said, Mr. House would want to police the entirety of the Mojave, so he would be securing these towns in exchange of attracting tourists, traders, and the likes.
Now, we can't just leave the rest of Outer Vegas alone, right? So..
1. Westside have the Co-op, and farming thanks to Thomas Anderson's effort. The irradiated water is problem that can be solved by turning off the reactor of Vault 34, or well, something that can solved in the future if you choose to save the rest of the Vault 34's dwellers. They also have the Thorn, so that can be a alternative source of entertainment for the inhabitants of Mojave who liked that, and thus, good source of money for whoever manage it. With the help of the Courier, Mr. House most likely would want to make a contract with Red Lucy, since I don't see why would he just get rid of them.
2. Eastside gets lots of merchants and gamblers, as said by Mrs. Hostetler.
3. North Vegas has an underground network. Since it was disconnected from the underground network of the Strip (as evidenced by Vault 21's deeper levels filled with concrete), he might want to use it for, I don't know, maybe an expanded Vault 21's hotel experience? There were also the Gray, and the residents of North Vegas Square were living an honest lives too. Well, except for the greasers living in the sewer and also the likes of Andy Scabb holed up in the Gray, but those can be solved by the Courier.
4. Freeside, ahh... Well, it only gets more chaotic due to the effect of the Strip getting its' potential fully realized, thanks to the conflict has been solved. If you let the Kings rioted against the NCR's squatters, the Kings would be left alone. Who knows what they can achieve? They genuinely cared about the locals and actually like the Followers of the Apocalypse.
Now you see that he have no problems gathering settlers, since he also managed to reform the three tribes and they practically became his settlers.
Industrial work would need lots of resources, primarily metals. As I've said before, Mr. House wanted to get the train up and working again. It would take probably 10 years (or maybe less, I don't know about that technicality), so he would set up trade with other civilization far away from the Mojave to get those needed resources to reignite hi-tech development sector. Maybe with the civilization up north beyond Zion Canyon to the Utah? The NCR? Heck, the Pitt? There were also many caves ripe for mining across the Mojave wasteland (which I have yet to explore to see what they can offer) so there's also that.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
I think you're overestimating their scrap potential.
Uh-huh, though it's not infinite. Remember, the only reason Vegas has those unemployed workers are because they're all immigrants. Cut of the immigration source and boom, not only does the economy dry up but so does the population.
Oh come Angel, you had to go full post on me? I suffer enough already?
Anyway, just let me play New Vegas. I'm playing as a House supporter so who knows, I might turn to his side?
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
Dude, the assembly line at Sunset Sarsaparilla, the satellites at Black Mountain, the Rocket tech at Repconn and, the science fiction technology at Hidden Valley should be enough to make a single factory. Either way he clearly has some abilities when it comes to this, he did rebuild the Strip afterall.
Good thing he keeps good relations with NCR and when Caesar dies there'll be a steady stream of workers, in fact there might be to many, he might even have to go full Trump and build a wall.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
A single factory yes, but then what? You need more metal to make stuff and even more materials to make more factories.
Yet when the relation goes sour... whoops!
Black Angel
Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus
Err, considering most of the Mojave landscape managed to stay intact thanks to Mr. House, there was a plenty of native inhabitants across the Mojave. Otherwise, you wouldn't see the locals in Freeside, Westside, and North Vegas Square, and hear them getting irritated and angry at the NCR's 'immigrants' (Squatters) flooding their spaces.
Well, that's basically the summary of the last 3-4 pages you didn't want to read, even though I prefer you read it instead of having me repeat myself :/
Personally, I'm not seeking to convert you to Mr. House's side. I'm just presenting to you why Mr. House is the best hope for humanity in the wasteland.
To be honest, I can see why you really love the Legion. In fact, I personally place the Legion as number 2 best hope for humanity, right below Mr. House.
Actually, that won't happen any sooner. As Mr. House predicted, Kimball and Oliver took the blame, and good guy like Hanlon rose to Senator position of Redding. In the long run, the NCR would still need all those power from the Dam.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Except there isn't. Goodsprings is small, Primm nonexistant and Freeside flooded with refugees.
That... was it?
Aww thanks. Another legion fan! We need more of them. I like Mr House as a character, but I don't see him as a hope for Humanity.
True, but still... who knows who the next NCR president will be and how he views House.
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
I wonder if it's common among House fans to have the Legion be their second favourite choice, probably has something to do with the pragmatism of the 2 factions.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Perhaps, is it the same with you?
Black Angel
Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus
1. Eh, Goodsprings was basically another demonstration of the fact that Gamebryo is a really shitty engine to handle more NPCs. Heck, the original Fallout creators also admit this fact that, in-game, you don't have to put realistic amount of population.
2. Primm? The ending slides says otherwise.
3. Correction, Squatters. If you notice, non-squatters were called Locals, so no refugees.
Well, you asked for a summary of it. Again, I'd rather let you read the rest from the last 3-4 pages.
Maybe now that you are going to play a Mr. House run, you will see what I mean. Also, you need to take into consideration some of the cut content, like the one that allows you to solve Mr. House-BoS quest peacefully (can be restored), and also the one where we can persuade Mr. House to support the NCR (this one I don't know if it can be restored).
I hope Hanlon will be. Although he didn't have a high opinion of Mr. House (he claimed the Strip drained the NCR's money and spirit), at least he wasn't clouded by an imperialistic mindset like Kimball and Oliver.
Or probably Crocker. Man, Crocker was actually a good guy. Unfortunately, if I'm not mistaken, something bad happened to Crocker if we solve Kings' Gambit peacefully, because Colonel Moore didn't like it.
That bitch.
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