Will in ten years Fallout still be relevant as a series?

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by The Dutch Ghost, Aug 31, 2021.

  1. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Hello all,

    This topic came up when I was chatting with someone on discord.
    The person I was talking too was a musician who had made music for a PA themed mod.

    He mentioned during the chat that he never had played any of the Fallout games. After the joke 'Blasphemy' reaction, I responded that he should probably play the first two games. Or the remake by Lexx and others of Fallout 1, and Fallout 2 with the patch that adds all missing content.

    But I also mentioned in the response that at some point it is no longer necessary to know the Fallout franchise as it has become irrelevant.

    That rather made me think, are we now in the period that the Fallout franchise is becoming irrelevant because of how Bethesda is handling the franchise? (yes, I do think it is because of Bethesda's mishandling that the franchise has become a terrible mess of bad lore, concepts, and so on)

    I am not saying that it is likely that the franchise will be put on hold soon, or that the community will suddenly forget about it. I am sure it will continue on for quite some time as it makes money.
    And we see how Bethesda is expanding into other markets like that RPG board game, and the upcoming streaming series.

    But I do think that the 'meaning' for a lack of better word, what it was about and what it had done for the RPG genre, not to mention the world it build is gone as it is milked out by Bethesda's terrible writers and designers, and eagerly consumed by people who want a quick new generic average product as their previous interest has lost its flavor.

    For the lack of a better description I would compare it to a Disney product like say the Star Wars franchise, even if Fallout does not have such a broad appeal.
    Now Star Wars was indeed about making money, but there was some genuine creative force and soul behind it, a desire to relive the old sci fi matinee serials and excite people with a fantastic adventure in another galaxy.

    Now all Star Wars does is imitate from its past.
    I can't say the old EU was always that great, but back then especially at the beginning there was a lot of world building and bringing in new concepts and ideas.

    Fallout has basically become the BOS power hour in which players put on power armor to fight against super mutants, Ghouls, raiders who outnumber the regular population. And has become a power fantasy with meaningless and badly written storylines, characters, and places.

    At the moment Fallout still has a lot of impact on other PA themed games as a lot of gamers still remember the classic entries. But I think designers, writers, and gamers should move away from it, just like the zombie apocalypse genre has also become a tiresome thing.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 4
  2. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    Fallout ended with Lonesome Road

    Beyond that, I wouldn't concern yourself.
  3. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I try not to but it is hard.

    Sonora sadly is not turning out what I hoped it to be.
    Fallout Miami has too much Bethesda elements in it.
    I have no idea in what state The Plateau is.
    Haven't heard about the recent attempts at remaking Fallout 1 for ages, but I suspect people will try to make it more canon with Bethesda's lore.
  4. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    I find that 1-2-NV are consistent enough of a package that their tone and style IS Fallout to me. I tried replaying Fallout 3 this past weekend and it just didn't feel like it to me. I find it very easy to write off.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 4
  5. Norzan

    Norzan So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Apr 7, 2017
    To anyone that only cares for Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas, does it matter if Fallout stays relevant? In my opinion it doesn't.

    And as much people like to say that Microsoft might allow Obsidian to make a Fallout game, current Obsidian sucks. Most of the people responsible for New Vegas are long gone. So the chances of a new good Fallout game are pretty much zero.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 11
  6. Risewild

    Risewild Antediluvian as Feck
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    In a different universe where this would be possible (Microsoft forcing different studios working under them to make a game together), the best game I could see for Fallout would be Fallout Tactics II... Using inXile, Obsidian and even id Software, they could make Tactics II. Turn based mode could even work as a mixture of Wasteland 3 and XCOM/Valkyrie Chronicles (with the optional 1st person shooting... I can't remember if those games have ) or something.

    I agree with you, I don't think Obsidian could make a good Fallout game anymore. That is why I think a Fallout Tactics II would be the most viable game that could happen these days, under Microsoft's rule.

    I can't remember if XCOM games have a 1st person aiming/shooting or not...
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2
  7. Señor Wally

    Señor Wally Mildly Dipped

    Feb 27, 2021
    I have not followed Fallout Miami. What kind of Bethesda elements are we talking?
  8. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Guest

    Relevant meaning it still rakes in money, yes.
    Relevant meaning it still resembles a CRPG, no.
    Don't let it bum you out though because you can still like the things you like.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 3
  9. Eumesmopo

    Eumesmopo Learned to love the bomb

    Dec 6, 2012
    Why is it that nowadays people seem to be using the word "relevant" as if it meant "currently in vogue in the vapid and ephemeral currents of american pop culture" rather than "appropriate to the current time, period, or circumstances"? Being relevant means that something is important and significant to the current world, not necessarily that the culture of the masses is aware or salient to it. Even classic works made in the ancient world such as the 'Epic of Gilgamesh' and 'A Debate Between a Man and his Ba' contain themes and motifs that are relevant to the men of any time, even if they aren't the trend of the week on social media.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  10. Eumesmopo

    Eumesmopo Learned to love the bomb

    Dec 6, 2012
    I still have my hopes on some indie or mid-tier studio making a spiritual successor that actually lives up to the quality of F1 and FNV.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  11. TheodoreRoosevelt

    TheodoreRoosevelt First time out of the vault

    Nov 21, 2020
    yes. i think bethesda for the most part has done a good job at keeping the Fallout brand relevant even if they have made some sacrifices in lore and gameplay style to widen the target audience.

    Though i don't think it will ever be as relevant as Skyrim. which has gone on to sell 30+ million units across multiple platforms. of course 30 million is nothing compared to Minecraft which sold 200 million that i think Todd Howard has nightmares over. that his game got beaten out by a kid's building game. so he introduced settlement building in fallout 4 yet that backfired on him tremendously with him combining elements from minecraft and GTA into Fallout 4. lol.
  12. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Yeah... perhaps like with Star Trek and Star Wars (though some say it still lives in the Mandalorian, and the Bad Batch), Fallout had its moment in the sun, and now that sun has set but I keep staring at the afterglow (my attempt at being poetic).

    Yes, my belief as well.
    We have passed the point that Obsidian would have been capable of making a good Fallout game.

    I am also basing this somewhat on the Outer Worlds.
    I think the setting could work, but I think the Obsidian of ten years ago would have pulled it off better.

    For example; pirate themed raiders. Not sea going raiders who are like pirates, but raiders who apparently went to Disney World and visited the Pirates of the Caribbean attraction. And decided that that was the motif to go for.
    They may play it straight like the Kings, but I would not be surprised if they talked like movie pirates too.

    Or despite that centuries have passed since the great war, that a lot still looks like the war happened a few years ago.

    I feel a bit frustrated that all the things I like are now of the past. There are barely any 'new' things I like any more.
    But that is a different topic.

    You are right regarding how you describe the meaning of relevant, and I used the wrong word for what I was really going for.
    Perhaps I should have written instead the question about if this franchise still has 'meaning' or 'value' instead of asking if it is important or significant.
    Dammit, I wish I could describe it better as I probably still write it too vague.

    This IP still has some impact as I mentioned on other PA themed media, and a lot of gamer-dom now knows of it because of Bethesda's entries.
    But does it still.... dammit... 'deserve' to be known or have such an impact, as everything that made it something special has been completely 'distilled' into a product ingredient.

    I am not talking about the monetary value, because it still makes money.
    But value as a creation.

    The stories you mentioned were not diminished by inferior follow ups or retelling, not loosing any of their 'strength' or quality.
    Not like the Epic of Gilgamesh would be diminished by a 'The further adventures of Gilgamesh', written be completely different authors who mostly if not completely did it for the money, and is considered an official part of the Epic of Gilgamesh saga even though it is a terrible follow up and crap on its own.
    And that it was primarily made in order to draw in more people who previously did not care for the Epic of Gilgamesh much as well as other merchandise potential.

    I know under Interplay there was already an effort to 'commercialize' Fallout a bit more and get a wider audience such as that Fallout movie script (it barely had anything in common with the game or its universe other than copied elements).
    Perhaps one of the reasons that might not have taken off, other than Iplay being unable to find a studio to finance it, is because some people realized it does not have a wide audience appeal.

    Ugh, this reads like a big pile of stupid rambling.

    Well you know my position. By doing these things Bethesda has effectively 'killed' what made the Fallout world special and interesting.
    They and Disney have made good cases why some IPs should not be handled by other developers or big companies.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 6
  13. Norzan

    Norzan So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Apr 7, 2017
    I'll say from the ones i played, Underrail and Atom RPG come close. Underrail does trade better writing and characters for a bigger emphasis on combat and Atom RPG leans more on the wacky stuff from Fallout 2, and because of that they aren't exactly on the same level as Fallout 1 or New Vegas.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 7
  14. Zvezda

    Zvezda First time out of the vault

    Jul 7, 2021
    In terms of influence in gaming? Triple As completely dominate the industry now, and I can't think of a single Triple A CRPG released in the last 10 years. They just churn out braindead FPSes with slightly different colour schemes and varying levels of consequence-free bullshit.

    You could try to rationalise it I guess, RPGs might be harder to produce than FPSes because of the design and writing involved or something. But I think it's more likely they've deluded themselves into thinking it's the only way to make money, after the edgy gen-z/late-millennial teen demographic blasted them with more money than they knew what to do with a few years ago. I mean, Bethesda is clearly marketing their games to kids, it's not hard to join the dots.

    It doesn't degrade the value of the series. It's just a shame a lot less people will get to enjoy it, or anything like it.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 5
  15. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Yeah, that is rather my annoyance with the Bethesda formula as well. When other action-adventures or RPGs are made that a lot of studios and publishers think that they have to go the Bethesda or Bioware route to make a 'good' (read; financially successful) game.

    And when they also win awards for best writing...

    This is also a reason why I am getting burned out/bummed out by a lot of the modern game industry and releases.

    Yeah, we need spiritual successors and new creations to fill the void now that a lot of the old classics have gone to shit.
    It makes me frustrated that I can not play any role in this. I have neither the skills nor the ideas.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2
  16. Millim

    Millim Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Orderite [REDACTED]

    Oct 13, 2010
    I have a few ideas that I wouldn't mind see being implemented

    In terms of Fallout however, yeah, it'll be as relevant as it is now depending if Bethesda And Microsoft can keep it going.

    They've done a job in keeping Skyrim going, a game that aged the second it came out but still somehow captures the big audience it does.

    Someone mentioned Minecraft earlier And i think that's probably the game which started a lot of what we see now.

    Since then, the games that have been successful are endless experiences aimed at a young audience.
    Games which last 50 hours can only hold so much weight in todays streaming market.
    Fallout will basically be looked at as a game like Halo is, a juggernaut in it's day, but a shadow of itself.

    I'm not too upset by it, we got 3 excellent games out of it And 3 decent games. (for those of you wondering, i'm talking about tactics, 3 And 4 there).

    I think an Obsidian/Inixile Fallout game could work, People like to crap on modern Obsidian, but there's not much of a difference between now and then. And with Tim Cain there, i think we'll get a much closer experience as to what People want.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  17. Kaptin

    Kaptin Slayer of soyjacks

    Sep 2, 2021
    OG fallout concluded with NV, Bethesda fallout is still going to be a relevant even after 10 years there are too many Bethesda drones who actually like Bethesda writing and keeps playing FO76 ( There are people with LVL 1400) what you can hope is to get Chris Avellone to write future fallout so we might get Bethesda fallout but with good writing but expect that future fallout is going to be about upgrading a better plasma gun and not about exploring the post-apocalyptic world (in FO76 it's all about grinding better legendary weapons)
  18. Eumesmopo

    Eumesmopo Learned to love the bomb

    Dec 6, 2012
    I think I kind of do get what you mean. Bethesda has already disfigured the lore and the brand to the point where it makes you want to move on from the franchise because Fallout is never going to be Fallout again. What I don't understand is your point about this somehow diminishing the value of what originally made Fallout special. I think almost all fans of the series understand that the original Fallout games are a very different beast from what Bethesda has created, they should not be judged as being similar works at all. I don't particularly like the fact that a beloved franchise of mine has been reduced to just another cog in the machine of unthinking consumerism, but that wouldn't stop me from recommending the good entries in it to other people so that they can enjoy for themselves the glimpse of everything that could have been had the owners of the IP not chosen the, far wiser I must admit, path of mass market appeal.

    By the way, there is a very interesting piece of trivia about the Epic of Gilgamesh which is relevant to this whole conversation: The tablet number twelve contains a story that is highly inconsistent with the previous eleven tablets and is generally agreed to be have been written much latter and by different people. Reminds you of anything?

    From my experience, I anticipate that the art of making video games will be a much easier field in the future. AI is going to trivialize several aspects of development such modelling, texturing, animation and even writing thanks to natural language networks such as GPT-3. I wouldn't discard the possibility of essentially anyone being able by themselves to, in probably as little as 5 years from now, make video games of a quality that currently requires a proper AAA studio to produce, given enough dedication and patience. There is a very interesting presentation on the subject that I'm going to link bellow. I, for one, am going to be sure to write down my ideas for a cool Sci-Fi RPG. You know when dreams can be no longer just dreams.

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  19. Morgan_

    Morgan_ Duckerz

    Jul 3, 2020
    Couldn't some of this be due to there being a huge well of previously made art and culture though? We're watching thing unfold in real time where as we can look back and pick out the greatest gems from the last 20 years or the last 100. Some things may also take time to grow on you that are happening now and you may come to appreciate present things more. This is all without even getting into nostalgia. I think it's at least partly an attitude problem as I've had similar feelings myself about more recent media.
  20. Ugly Kid

    Ugly Kid Still Mildly Glowing

    May 9, 2018
    I don't get why people think Obsidian is a completely different team now. Chris Avellone was the only recognizable name that had departed. Josh Sawyer and Feargus Urquhart are still there, Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky have joined, and honestly I don't know about any other members but these four are Fallout.