World Cup 2010 South Africa

[Brother None]

True about the chances, but an invalid goal is an invalid goal no matter how 'well-deserved' it may be.

Yeah, because invalid goals never happen

Also, he wasn't offside.

Remember they count torso, head and legs for offside, and this snapshot is a moment after the kick, with the defender moving towards the ball and being a half-step back when the kicking motion is started (which is officially when you measure offside).

On top of that, whenever offside decisions are close, the official FIFA rule is that you must side with the offense, not the defense.

The goal is valid.

 

[Serge 13]

I hope Germany will beat Spain, and the Dutch will beat Germany to cap a wonderful World Cup experience. Nog inne dan!

I don't want germany to win this cup!
Whatever it takes! Just to be on the safe side: I hope spain beats germany today!

 

[Brother None]

A rematch of the European Cup final to determine who goes up against the Dutch. Certainly didn't look like that early on in the tournament...

Y'know, I have a friend who always goes "the WC is just the EC plus Argentina and Brazil". I tend to disagree fervently, but it certainly does tend to look like it whenever we get out of the (relatively meaningless) group stages.

 

[Sicblades]

That Half step counts as an offside per officiating rules. (Fifa.com has a nice <s>little</s> long video on it)

Anyways - while I expected the Dutch to win, I could watch this match in lieu of taking a sleeping pill. It can't possibly be that hard to play exciting tactically correct football can it? Hell - we as amateurs do it, why can't the pros? (yeah yeah, they don't want to lose, etc)

 

[Brother None]

That Half step counts as an offside per officiating rules.

You misunderstand. He's a half-step inside, not outside, van Persie is on one line with him a moment before that snapshot. But even in that snapshot, van Persie is not offside by FIFA rules, because in case of doubt you have to favour the offense.

It's funny how hard people are trying to paint off this goal as controversial. It clearly is not.

Hell - we as amateurs do it, why can't the pros?

Because they play people who are actually good?

 

[CloudlessDruid]

I'm getting mixed feelings; while I should clearly support Germany now, I fell an incredible sympathy for the Netherlands in the world cup. Maybe its their girls.

Anyway, I'll be happy one way or another.

 

[Sicblades]

You misunderstand. He's a half-step inside, not outside, van Persie is on one line with him a moment before that snapshot. But even in that snapshot, van Persie is not offside by FIFA rules, because in case of doubt you have to favour the offense.

It's funny how hard people are trying to paint off this goal as controversial. It clearly is not.

I didn't say it was controversial - it's obviously a marginal call and we being able to see the replay is by far different than making the instant decision that the linesman has to make. As I understand the rule, he's offside, if marginally.

Because they play people who are actually good?

So being good is equal to playing boring football? I didn't think so. I also expected more out of the game, especially from the Dutch. Both teams played boringly and tactically unsound.

 

[Sander]

That Half step counts as an offside per officiating rules. (Fifa.com has a nice <s>little</s> long video on it)

Anyways - while I expected the Dutch to win, I could watch this match in lieu of taking a sleeping pill. It can't possibly be that hard to play exciting tactically correct football can it? Hell - we as amateurs do it, why can't the pros? (yeah yeah, they don't want to lose, etc)

Wait, sorry? This match was boring? What have you been watching?
Certainly previous Netherlands matches have been boring, specifically in the group stages, but this match? A match featuring five goals and plenty of chances?

So being good is equal to playing boring football?

No, you can't play the same way in your amateur league as you can against a world-class side. The world-class side would slaughter you if you do.

And it's not like the Dutch aren't trying to score goals. They scored 3 and had several more fairly open chances.

tactically unsound.

Eh, please explain how the Dutch team played 'tactically unsound'.

while I should clearly support Germany now

Eh...why?

 

[CloudlessDruid]

Because my father is german?

 

[Sander]

Because my father is german?

Okay, didn't know that.

Interestingly, the Germans would love a Netherlands-Germany final too, they even wanted that long before the Netherlands got there.

 

[Sicblades]

Wait, sorry? This match was boring? What have you been watching?
Certainly previous Netherlands matches have been boring, specifically in the group stages, but this match? A match featuring five goals and plenty of chances?

The Van Brockhorst(sp?) goal wasn't necessarily a scoring chance (it was a great strike), and the only other chance before that goal was when Kuijt missed early in the game from that half volley.

No, you can't play the same way in your amateur league as you can against a world-class side. The world-class side would slaughter you if you do.

Duh, that's why it's amateur. You'd expect a world-class team to play much better though, and find more chances, considering the amount of talent the Dutch have. It was only around the 60th minute or so where Robben started picking up the pace and made the Uruguay defense look as bad as it was.

And it's not like the Dutch aren't trying to score goals. They scored 3 and had several more fairly open chances.

First half: If you're talking about Kuijt's chance, I might agree, the rest weren't real open scoring chances.
Second half: Apart from those 5 minutes where you kind of saw the second (and third)Dutch goal coming - there wasn't much happening.

Eh, please explain how the Dutch team played 'tactically unsound'.

Giving Forlan as much room as he was being given, the many runs down the flanks that were being given, making various messy tackles.

Seriously man, aside from the patriotic stance of the victory to the final, you can't say that that was a "good" game from either side.

 

[Brother None]

Interestingly, the Germans would love a Netherlands-Germany final too, they even wanted that long before the Netherlands got there.

They do love the Dutchies. I watched Holland-Brazil in Germany, amongst a big crowd of metalheads. Only a few cheered Brazil, most cheered the Netherlands. After the 2nd goal of the Dutch on guy jumped at us and started kissing the Dutch flag one of us was wearing. At the final whistle several Germans jumped into our arms, and soon we were all chanting "Niederlande - Deutschland Finale!"

Good fun. The German-Dutch hate is a thing of the past. Thank Frith we have the Portuguese to loathe, they deserve it so much more.

Duh, that's why it's amateur. You'd expect a world-class team to play much better though, and find more chances, considering the amount of talent the Dutch have.

For Frith's sake being so obtuse. It's not just as if the amount of offensive talent increase, defensive talent is much greater too, not to mention the vast amount of research and tactical thinking that goes in to preventing the other team from playing at its top form. Your comparison to amateur football is ridiculous, amateur football doesn't have the capability to create attacks as beautiful as this level of the game does, but obviously this level of the game also has the capability to break apart such beautiful attacks. Any team that can't both create and destroy has no place this far into the World Cup.

Has this Dutch side played more beautiful football before? Yes. But excuse me if I care a bit more about winning than about another traumatic experience like ' 74, '98 or even ' 06.

 

[Sicblades]

For Frith's sake being so obtuse. It's not just as if the amount of offensive talent increase, defensive talent is much greater too, not to mention the vast amount of research and tactical thinking that goes in to preventing the other team from playing at its top form. Your comparison to amateur football is ridiculous, amateur football doesn't have the capability to create attacks as beautiful as this level of the game does, but obviously this level of the game also has the capability to break apart such beautiful attacks. Any team that can't both create and destroy has no place this far into the World Cup.

Has this Dutch side played more beautiful football before? Yes. But excuse me if I care a bit more about winning than about another traumatic experience like ' 74, '98 or even ' 06.

Yeah they won, deservedly too, but it's not like they played good. No matter who they face in the final, I hope they don't go playing like that.

 

[Sander]

The Van Brockhorst(sp?) goal wasn't necessarily a scoring chance (it was a great strike), and the only other chance before that goal was when Kuijt missed early in the game from that half volley.

That's just the first 20 minutes. The game went on for 98 minutes.

Duh, that's why it's amateur. You'd expect a world-class team to play much better though, and find more chances, considering the amount of talent the Dutch have.

Up against a squad that were back defending with 8 men, constantly, and you expect a team to constantly find holes? I'm not kidding here, they ran an 8-man defense.
Have you been watching any football at all this World Cup?

First half: If you're talking about Kuijt's chance, I might agree, the rest weren't real open scoring chances.
Second half: Apart from those 5 minutes where you kind of saw the second (and third)Dutch goal coming - there wasn't much happening.

The Dutch had 11 shots, 7 on goal throughout the match and several instances where they nearly broke through without getting a shot on goal. At the end of the match especially there were a lot of chances.

Just a few chances you failed to take notice of: Robben header 10', Van Persie almost through 20' leading to corner, Robben swinging the ball in 21', Robben almost through 30', 42' Gio swing the ball in, 45+1' Kuyt header, 52' corner, 54' free kick swinging into the box, 57' Kuyt cross, 59' corner, 63' corner, 68' Van der Vaart open shot, 70' goal, 73' goal and a load of chances after that.

That was just me skimming through the game, I know I missed a few. Play wasn't great, no, but it was good and there were plenty of created chances.

Giving Forlan as much room as he was being given, the many runs down the flanks that were being given, making various messy tackles.

Aside from that one goal, Forlan wasn't being given much room at all. The reason he got as much space on that one goal was because he dropped deep and managed to elude the defensive midfielders that kept on him every time he dropped deep. If you'd paid any attention you'd see that there was almost immediate pressure on him every time he got the ball and his passes were limited to one-touch football. This is shown by a very simple statistic: Forlan attempted fewer passes than any outfield player who was on the pitch for as long as he was, with the exception of Van Persie.
If Forlan had had oceans of space, he would've been much more involved in the play. In fact, he had a total of 4 shots throughout the match, 1 resulting in a goal from open play, 3 from free kicks.

I don't think you understand the concept of 'giving' runs away. Kuyt was constantly shuttling on the left to protect Gio and those two by and large kept any runs on that side contained. On the other side, Boulahrouz was on an island but largely held his own against Pereira. Besides, you want them to attack but at the same not give up any runs down the flanks?

And I'm not sure how 'messy tackles' have anything to do with tactics. Did Van Marwijk go in and tell his players to make messy tackles instead of good tackles or something?

Don't take my word for it, read this piece: http://timhi.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/uruguay-holland-report/

 

[Sicblades]

Man, I don't have time to go and break down and go look at statistics. They've played better, and they could have done better in this game. They couldn't get their tactics going by Uruguay not giving them room, and it took them time to adjust. Uruguay wasn't playing great by any means, so for the Dutch to not do better was disappointing. Yes you had moments of greatness (like in the article) but there wasn't very much of that going down for most of the game.

 

[Crni Vuk]

alright 76th minute. 1 goal for Spain. I guess its pretty much almost over.

 

[GreyViper]

Yeah guess that was that, but I honestly expected more from Germany. To me they felt just o passive and when it looked they were gathering tempo they fell back again. And in the end they gave Spain so much chances to try for goal that it did happen. Germany has only themselvs to blame and yes Spain played a good game.
Germany has a chance to redeem for 3rd place, hope they get their act together in that game.

So heres me hopeing Dutch will win over Spain.

 

[x'il]

Yeah, because invalid goals never happen

Did i say they never do?

Also, Spain won!! hell yeah!

Two very hungry teams that have never won a world cup in the final!!

 

[iii]

Yeah guess that was that, but I honestly expected more from Germany. To me they felt just o passive and when it looked they were gathering tempo they fell back again. And in the end they gave Spain so much chances to try for goal that it did happen. Germany has only themselvs to blame and yes Spain played a good game.
Germany has a chance to redeem for 3rd place, hope they get their act together in that game.

So heres me hopeing Dutch will win over Spain.

Redeem for what? Spain played an excelent game and it was clearly the better team, there is no shame losing 0:1 against such a team.

 

[Crni Vuk]

exactly. there was a lot of respect for the spanian team. And thats what somewhat limited the German team a bit. One should not forget they have many young players. Some which have played here their first really big game. As some people said over here already. Even if loosing it was sad the German team played a great cup so far and it means they have a lot of potential. So we might wait and see what happens in 4 years. Or the next euro cup in 2 years. One should not forget that half of the Spanian team is playing together for more then 2 years some players even shared the same team together since their childhood. And that shows. The German team had somewhat 6 weeks to form a team and train together. And for that they still did "good" ~ with thinking about the past games as well. Just see France for that matter. Or some of the teams which went home much earler then Germany. Serbia hasnt done that great either for the fact that they had some not-so-bad-team as well.

Loosing against Spain is sure hard. Its always. But its sure not a shame. Has the German team done its best ? No clue. But some players sure touched their limit. So much for sure.