eissa
Artanis "Altáriel" Nerwen Nos Finwe
Funny that there is some people claim that bethesda is very good at world building or enviroment narrative; but why their games still need Quest markers?
Worst mechanics in gaming?
- Thread starter Ediros
- Start date
MercenarySnake
Kept you waiting huh?
People would complain it's too hard.
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
My thing about that Is Bethesda hasn't made a decent worldspace since vvardenfell. Vvardenfell made sense as a world all the way down to it's economy. And the landscape was designed well enough that you find your way on directions alone. Compare to capital wasteland or the Commonwealth. Yeah... They suck at worldbuilding now.
Last edited:
CerberusGate
I should save my game in a whole new slot
I agree that quest markers are a bad idea in open world exploration games. You ought to be able to guide yourself using in-game maps, landmarks and directions rather than a floating marker or a trail of magical bedcrumbs.
Example of directions done right: Morrowind gained layers of depth and immersive value by making the player follow directions given by NPCs (that can be inaccurate since it simulates how some people forget directions) while making them use landmarks to guide them. The fact that the game actually made the landmarks distinct enough to use is good game design.
Example of directions done wrong: Skyrim. It relies heavily on map markers. Few characters actually mention the routes or directions to places nor do they bother to point out landmarks. As a result, the only in-universe way of directions is a spell (for magical breadcrumbs). Even worse is that map markers are even used to mark quest vital objects in game (rather than encouraging proper exploration and discovery).
Example of directions done right: Morrowind gained layers of depth and immersive value by making the player follow directions given by NPCs (that can be inaccurate since it simulates how some people forget directions) while making them use landmarks to guide them. The fact that the game actually made the landmarks distinct enough to use is good game design.
Example of directions done wrong: Skyrim. It relies heavily on map markers. Few characters actually mention the routes or directions to places nor do they bother to point out landmarks. As a result, the only in-universe way of directions is a spell (for magical breadcrumbs). Even worse is that map markers are even used to mark quest vital objects in game (rather than encouraging proper exploration and discovery).
Because quest markers have little to do with world building or environment.
Morrigan98
It Wandered In From the Wastes
3rd Person shooters (or any shooter in general) with conveniently placed cover in every fucking mission.
But don't you have chest high walls all over the place were you live? :trollface:
Some of the biggest TES fans are fans since Arena or Daggerfall, from when TES was a RPG series. The Witcher 3 is a "real" Action RPG series, Deus Ex is another RPG series. You are actually agreeing with me in a sense. Those RPGs are made for the RPG fans, but they are the minority in a very very large and deep pool of "RPG" of today.
Not to mention that most Skyrim players will play it more for combat, loot, pretty graphics, etc, than exploration, story "immersion". The ten most popular mods on Skyrim Nexus are:
- SkyUi
- Skyrim HD 2k Textures
- Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch
- A Quality World Map and Solstheim Map with roads
- Immersive Weapons
- FNIS (Fores New Idles in Skyrim)
- Enhanced Blood Textures
- Realistic Ragdolls and Force
- SMIM (Statistic Mesh Improvement Mod)
- Climates of Tamriel Weather Lightning Audio
And I can't agree with that either because I am with you in that, I have been playing RPGs even before they existed in computer/video game format and me and most of the people I play/ed RPGs with and most of the people I know that play RPGs do not like quest markers. I guess it is just two sides of the same coin in this situation.
Don't get me wrong, I also think that quest markers could have benefits (specially if it reduces the time writers and devs have to spend in some areas of the game, giving them more time to perfect or add better things in those games). But a RPG should not take the fast and easy way of making quests and describe the world and if the devs want to make quest markers then they should allow them to be disabled and offer alternative means for the players to be able to find whatever the objective they are looking for is (actual directions). RPG fans like choices, either inside the game's world or outside of it.
For example quest markers work well on FPS with quests, because FPS are fast, usually have a lot of enemies and players can get lost easily with focusing on killing the enemies and survive for example.
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
A bit off-topic but I'm actually totally fine with TES series becoming a straight open world action series. SO LONG as the story is as well done as say, morrowind's. And the lore remains interesting. I was never interested in TES as an RPG if I'm honest. Fallout on the other hand...
K
Kremin
Guest
Minigames.
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
There's nothing inherently wrong with minigames IMO. I thinks there may even be a place for them in RPGs just not as they are now. lockpicking in skyrim/fo3, for example, would have been preferred to be a dice roll situation for me. The hacking minigame in the 3d fallouts makes sense to be a minigame but the one we currently have is retardedly simple.
K
Kremin
Guest
Eh I could've just gone with a menu and a skill check instead of a minigame for FO3 or whatever.
They just annoy me in other genres.
Morrowind is easily my favorite TES game, but Morrowind had, by far the weakest story of all TES games. It barely had a plotline, it was, at most, a basic premise with some really good lore behind it.
And Morrowind only really had the lore it did because they reset the lore in Morrowind.
All the graphics and weather mods you listed are made for exploration and immersion, by making the world look better. Thus making it more immersive, and fun to explore.
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
I tell you what I hate: quick time events. The god of war games use them excessively. Usually in super badass fights that you can't enjoy because you're to busy looking for which button you have to press next. But I put up with them in GOW's case because they are otherwise fantastic games.
K
Kremin
Guest
I don't understand why they're in so many games tbh.
It just wastes your time if anything. Completely pointless imo.
Minigames in any kind of game should only exist if they are optional. Like the many card games in old Playstation Final Fantasy games for example. They are there and players can play them if they want to, but they are not blocked from accessing areas or progressing through the game because of the mini games.
For example if you're playing a turn-based RPG and then all of a sudden a mini game pops up that you have to in real time input commands (like in a guitar hero game way) so you can kill this specific boss or open this door before advancing in the game, then it is ridiculous and shouldn't exist in this game.
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
Y'know what? That's fair. I can agree with that. The story of dagoth ur is an interesting one to say the least. But yeah the MQ story isnt very... Its a lot like reading a Wikipedia article. As is the dialogue system.
Are you saying that today "RPG" players can only immerse themselves if the graphics are pretty? I have more fun and feel more "immersed" exploring Vivec from Morrowind without any graphic mods than exploring any Skyrim city with the best graphic mods and weather mods...
Graphics do not make RPGs fun or "immersive" for most RPG players I know.
EDIT: I also just remembered that when I first entered any settlement, town or city in Fallout or Fallout 2 for the first I felt more fun, curiosity and immersed than I did in any Fallout 3 or Fallout 4 one.
No? Graphics just make the world more realistic looking, thus more immersive. It's not the sole determination of immersion though.Are you saying that today "RPG" players can only immerse themselves if the graphics are pretty? I have more fun and feel more "immersed" exploring Vivec from Morrowind without any graphic mods than exploring any Skyrim city with the best graphic mods and weather mods...
Graphics do not make RPGs fun or "immersive" for most RPG players I know.
The plotline of Morrowind is
>Get off a boat
>Deliver a package to a druggie
>Do 5 menial tasks to get told you might be part of a prophecy
>Walk to the ass end of nowhere
>Do 5 more tasks to get told you might be the chosen one, but aren't the chosen one yet
>Do 10 more tasks to get named the chosen one
>Talk to vivec about Dagoth Ur
>Go to the Red Mountain, go through a few easy dungeons, collect some tools, then go to Dagoth Ur's base, and hit a heart a few times
>Game over.
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
Skyrim is one of the least immersive games I've ever played. Simply because it doesn't function as a world. And graphic mods can't fix that. Graphics don't do much for immersion for me. I felt far more immersed with planescape's detailed descriptions than I ever did with any of skyrim's graphic mods.