Would you have supported renaming the Brahim if ..

[Laxite]

Well if it makes you feel better Fallout 3 was cancelled in India likely for this reason. So if you want to go ahead and write a strongly worded letter to Bethesda maybe they will go ahead and cancel all sales to India.

The rest of us in the free world will be enjoying the fact that our forms of art and entertainment aren't censored.

My advice is stay away from videogames, movies, books, and the internet because you will likely never cease being offended.

As Stephen Fry said: "It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what."

Ah Stephen Fry, a genius man.

I like Steven Fry too, he was brilliant as Jeeves. As I said this is the first time I have ever felt offended in a video game and I have been playing for many years. By the way, India *is* a free country. They have freedom of speech, but they have reasonable limitations against religiously or otherwise incendiary behavior. US has some exceptions too, checkout wikipedia.

 

[Walpknut]

The problem here is that you are literary getting offended over something that isn't even worded in an offensive manner. You feel attacked because you have an inflated sense of self. And then you are arguing that is YOUR FEELINGS that should regulate expression.



Digital Devil Saga actually has very itneresting philosophies and it uses hindu mysticism as a backdrop for it, but you are obviously not interested in that because religion.

 

[khain]

Jesus, I had no idea I was so right on the money when I said this just reeked of PC culture and everyone being offended by everything.

Well, the last two pages speak for themselves. Walpknut has made some excellent points, we've got the Stephen Fry quote, I've got nothing to add.

 

[Laxite]

I have moved on, but cannot resist a good argument.

You don't have a good argument. Everything you say is based on your personal opinion. Freedom of speech is written into law, it isn't what you think it SHOULD be. It's as simple as that.

This is a forum for discussing Fallout 4, not dredging up religious debates.

And likewise you have what you think is a good argument. Freedom of speech in is constitution agreed, but we all have the right to form opinion if a particular expression of it is "right" in our judgement. We have a different judgement on this.

And check this out as well, one can claim that it comes with in the 'insulting words" exception:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech#United_States

If you actually think this falls within the category of hate speech I suggest you take it up with the Justice System instead of threatening to flood your own voting poll with Yes votes on this tiny little forum which has no power to change the name of the cows in the video game.

I am actually grateful to this forum for letting me express my opinion without a lot of flame going around. I am no way going to flood it, I was just making a point that polls are geography specific and I was not expecting any different result in this geography. I know that we do not have the power to change it even if we were to agree. However it was an opportunity to interact with my countrymen and see how they feel on this issue. After the immigration law change in 1960s, US is becoming a multi-religious country, it has many radically different religions, including atheism, which is absence of one ( it is like the numbering system that starts with 0, or None option), as opposed to many derivatives of the same religion. In my humble opinion, we need to be sensitive to that.
As you recall, I did not bring up freedom of speech as being in the law. But if it is brought up, then let's be prepared to examine it beyond its face value.
Thanks!

 

[Laxite]

The problem here is that you are literary getting offended over something that isn't even worded in an offensive manner. You feel attacked because you have an inflated sense of self. And then you are arguing that is YOUR FEELINGS that should regulate expression.



Digital Devil Saga actually has very interesting philosophies and it uses hindu mysticism as a backdrop for it, but you are obviously not interested in that because religion.

Of course I am not. Many in the US will not be interested in it if it were to be called the Holy Ghost. Can you instead give an example of a game that trashes the most prominent religion in the US and is successful? And offensive does not need to be worded so to be so. A symbolic association between an honored concept concept to a base one can do the trick.
Let's not make personal attacks, the point is, the argument that I am imposing is my own opinion is your own or 12 people's personal opinion that you are imposing. And as I said, this game is launched globally, and if we were to bring in a global audience, you will see that it is not just my opinion.
Being an atheist is not a passport to stepping on non-atheists' tows.

 

[Walpknut]

Shin Megami Tensei 1, 2, 3 and 4 are about killing the Judeo Christian God, like, it is literary the Big villain in those games and they are a big enough franchise to get animated adaptations and for Atlus (the developer) to have been really sought after when the parent company went under. Persona 4 has you fight the female creation deity of the Japanese myth and that game is super popular there.


Also it offends me that you keep double posting. There is an edit button, please feel free to use it, but stop double posting.

 

[Laxite]

Jesus, I had no idea I was so right on the money when I said this just reeked of PC culture and everyone being offended by everything.

Well, the last two pages speak for themselves. Walpknut has made some excellent points, we've got the Stephen Fry quote, I've got nothing to add.

Nethack: Not offended by anything.
Morrowind: Not offended by anything.
Oblivion: Not offended by anything.
Skyrim: Not offended by anything.
Witcher 3: Not offended by anything
Civilization 3-5: Not offended by anything
Warcraft 1-3: Not offended by anything
Starcraft 1-2: Not affected by anything
Galciv 1-3: Not offended by anything
Endless Space 1-2: Not offended by anything
Endless Legend: Not offended by anything
Fallout 4: Offended by Brahmin
Now would you please be a Gentleman form 'Disjointed Kingdom" and tell me what 'PC attitude' means without being 'sarcastic'? It is a new term to me, I truly won't be offended and you don't care anyway.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

This entire thread offends me. I demand that you censor your posts entirely because it offends me. It is not enough for me just to put you on ignore, I have to force my belief on you and force you to censor your own posts as well.

 

[Walpknut]

Now would you please be a Gentleman form 'Disjointed Kingdom" and tell me what 'PC attitude' means without being 'sarcastic'? It is a new term to me, I truly won't be offended and you don't care anyway.

It means Politically Correct attitude.

 

[khain]

There was Nocturne on PS2, I think you have to kill three archangels, then god.

Assassin's Creed got a fair bit of flack on mockery of christianity, as well.

 

[Walpknut]

On Nocturne the canon ending is joining Lucifer and destroying YHVH's avatar on this plane of existence to stop his cycle of destruction and reconstruction and becoming the general of the forces of hell.

Don't you kill a pope in one of the Asscreed games too?

 

[khain]

Ah yes I couldn't remember the exact Nocturne plot, and was being lazy.

For AC, I just know the general feeling towards some episodes of the series, haven't played them all, hence I had to google that one. I do think you're right about the pope slaying.

 

[Laxite]

Shin Megami Tensei 1, 2, 3 and 4 are about killing the Judeo Christian God, like, it is literary the Big villain in those games and they are a big enough franchise to get animated adaptations and for Atlus (the developer) to have been really sought after when the parent company went under. Persona 4 has you fight the female creation deity of the Japanese myth and that game is super popular there.


Also it offends me that you keep double posting. There is an edit button, please feel free to use it, but stop double posting.

Now you are being offended so many times, that you have this 'PC' attitude, honestly what does that mean?
I did not know that offending religious sensitivities is so prevalent these days. You can see the list of game I play, there is none of that there. Great, I learned something. With newly found respect for you, I still find all of that ugly and unnecessary, may be works for the rebellious young audience. Now there is only one big God remained to be used as the Boss villain and I am sure that won't happen because they will kill the video game maker!

 

[Walpknut]

I thought you said that if we explained what PC attitude meant you wouldn't get offended but it seems that even that offended you.

Plenty of games already deal with destroying the very semiotic of the videogame itself.... My god dude, what do you even play? You seem to be reaaaaaaly out of it.

 

[Laxite]

It's never enough for these people to just ignore things, they have to force the entire world to bend to their will.

We have "freedom of speech, PERIOD." It means we can even criticize our most prominent religions, our government, and so on. Plenty of movies, television, books, music, news, etc. criticize the "most prevalent religions" in this country and that is their right as granted by law.

You claim you have "freedom of speech, *BUT*" not "freedom of speech PERIOD."

"Freedom of speech, BUT" exists in all the dictatorships of the world.

I am not forcing anybody. In your terms, I am exercising my freedom of speech and that to in a much more benign way than creating havoc by unnecessary bashing of religions.
Seriously so the US has this freedom of speech and no other country has it, but what is use of exercising it to hurt others, unless one wants to 'force the entire world to their will'?
And by the way, I enjoy the US version of freedom of speech too. If you didn't know, people from India can become US citizens, and the 'US' freedom of speech is 'enjoyed' even by non citizens on the US soil. What I am saying is, US will eventually have to limit certain expressions of this as it becomes a less homogeneous society. And this is not imposing my will on anybody. It is what I think will happen. It may or may not.

 

[Gizmojunk]

If people (regardless of number) choose to be offended by things that others do not find offensive, well nothing is going to fix that, and changing this name to that will probably just offend some other unreasonable people who choose to be offended by otherwise unoffensive things.

* Including the act of changing the name under pressure.

IMO if someone is offended by page 58 of a fiction novel that they wouldn't otherwise read, but were notified of, or were reading and discovered it on their own... Their option should be to ignore it or stop reading the book. On no account should they be able to force the author to retroactively edit a work of fiction to their suit their own sensibilities.

If it were otherwise, we could have lost works like Animal Farm and 1984.

 

[Monco]

What I am saying is, US will eventually have to limit certain expressions of this as it becomes a less homogeneous society. And this is not imposing my will on anybody. It is what I think will happen. It may or may not.

The US is already far from homogeneous, in certain states (Texas and New Mexico) whites account for less than 50% of the population. Not that there hasn't been issues, but with all the different races and religions represented in the US there has been relatively little violence, especially in the last 20 years.

 

[Laxite]

I thought you said that if we explained what PC attitude meant you wouldn't get offended but it seems that even that offended you.

Plenty of games already deal with destroying the very semiotic of the videogame itself.... My god dude, what do you even play? You seem to be reaaaaaaly out of it.

Oh I missed that post sorry. So PC is politically correct. I am being that way because I do not want to get thrown out the board, or the post locked. My post got locked out of Bethesda Board and this being my first post here, I am not sure what they think is OK and what is not. The forum rules are not clear on this.
You can see the list of names in one my recent posts. See I don't seek out rebellious or hip or the trendy games. I play RTS, strategy and RPG types of games. Usually big title, has good production value most of the time. CIV5 with its Great works of Art, Great works of Music and writings and excellent strategic depth being an example.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

CIV5 with its Great works of Art, Great works of Music and writings and excellent strategic depth being an example.

CIV 5 has a bug that portrays Ghandi and India as warmongering psychopaths and yet you were not offended by this, and instead were offended by the cows which are probably named after a well-known domestic breed of cattle.

Face it: you're just looking for something to be outraged at. And our laws are in place specifically to prevent people like this from demanding we all conform to their rules. This is on the exact same level as those people who were outraged over the Starbucks Christmas cups.

 

[Laxite]

If people (regardless of number) choose to be offended by things that others do not find offensive, well nothing is going to fix that, and changing this name to that will probably just offend some other unreasonable people who choose to be offended by otherwise unoffensive things.

* Including the act of changing the name under pressure.

IMO if someone is offended by page 58 of a fiction novel that they wouldn't otherwise read, but were notified of, or were reading and discovered it on their own... Their option should be to ignore it or stop reading the book. On no account should they be able to force the author to retroactively edit a work of fiction to their suit their own sensibilities.

There will never be 100% consensus on offensiveness. There will be some people who would not mind. In ideal world the criteria should be ethics based, on the practical side it is a revenue decision. Offending someone will give you people drawn to the sensational. Offending the minimum would net you a wider audience. It is something like do you want to be the National Enquirer ( a tabloid) or the New York Times.