Your definitive thoughts on Fallout 3.

[Sander]

I didn't double post, unless the meaning of double-posting has changed to "posting two different messages in a row."

It hasn't changed, it's *always* meant that around here.
So stop doing it.

This is hardly a meaningful discussion board if everyone just sits around saying "this game is going to suck hard" and patting each other on the back for reinforcing their own opinions.

This is hardly a meaningful discussion board if people neglect to read up either.

The conversation just seems to flow much more naturally when you can input your choices almost immediately, rather than waiting for the other person to finish and then spending 15 seconds reading through a few paragraphs of text to figure out which response you want. Not that 15 seconds is a huge amount of time in the grand scheme of things, but it's long enough to disrupt the flow of the conversation. Why on earth would you prefer conversations that feel more artificial?

I find that selecting 'Why?' and then hearing my character speak an elaborate line of dialogue that is not the kind of why I had in mind at all feels pretty artificial. I mean really, do you honestly think that this kind of dialogue is *realistic*?

n a game, the designers need to decide early on whether to go the text-only or full voice approach; if you're simply recording full voiceovers to accompany text written in a more literary style, then they are not going to mesh well.

Horseshit. Fallout had a hybrid of both that worked pretty well, and Fallout's dialogue was generally conversationally written.

And what does a 50s style building look like?

The in-game graphics in Fallout 1 and 2 don't really convey distinctly 50s-style buildings. The buildings in the smaller towns look more like Luke Skywalker's home on Tatooine more than anything else (which were actual buildings in Tunisia).

Art deco and googie to a smaller extent are very obviously distinct features of Fallout's architecture. Shady Sands has a very basic strucure, because it was built from the ground up after the war. Every other town does have the art deco and googie style.

Nobody said that stimpacks and "traditional" ways of healing in Fallout are not in the game. Drinking water will heal you a small amount (which is far better than having to monitor a "thirst meter" such as in Dark Cloud on the PS2), and giving the example of being able to drink from a toilet demonstrates the level of consistency in the world design and the amount of thought that goes into trying to cover everything that a player might try to do in the game.

Ehm, yeah, because irradiated water that's been stagnant for 200 years having *beneficial* properties is a sign of thought.
Say what?

Looking good so far, and seems very much based on the dialogue system in Fallout 1 and 2. The fact that there isn't an entirely separate branch of dialogue options for characters of low Intelligence doesn't bother me in the least. It was good for a cheap laugh in the original games, but certainly wasn't a way I wanted to play the entire game.

So first you praise them for adding toilet healing as being a sign of paying attention to what players may want to do, and then you say that it doesn't matter when they leave out an option that was pretty big in the original game?
Please at least attempt to be somewhat consistent.

Don't see the problem with it. So it's a slingshot/catapult/whatever that launches little nuclear grenades. It's probably an amusing but rather inaccurate weapon that may very well damage you or bystanders. I highly doubt it will have a prominent role in the game; it's just a fun and slightly amusing weapon to run around the demo with.

If this is so trivial an option, then why is it almost the entire basis of most previews, along with 'Ooh gore' and 'I get to blow up a town llol'?

I honestly like this sort of in-game character creation that doesn't explicitly remind me that I'm playing an RPG. It's more fun if you just answer the questions honestly rather than try to play the system to get the results you want (i.e. the gypsy fortune-telling in Ultima). The previews said that you can skip it or override it if you want and distribute your attribute points and skill points on your own, so I don't see why any reasonable person would object to it being an option. I thought that we liked options, as Fallout fans?

So who said people thought this was a stupid idea?
Also, no preview claimed that you can skip it. All we know is that, as in Morrowind and Oblivion, you can redistribute your skills and such after the intro.

I think it's a cool idea to have your character's father reflect your choices in character creation. He's a good actor with a voice that players might actually want to listen to and not skip over. I like voice acting in RPGs, as long as it's done well and the writing doesn't suffer. Good examples: Knights of the Old Republic I & II, Jade Empire. Bad examples: Ultima IX.

Yeesh, you pick some shitty examples.
Good examples: Fallout, Planescape: Torment, Monkey Island games. Bad example: Oblivion.
Note that all of these have mainly hired professional voice actors, as opposed to Hollywood big-name stars.

I don't see how having your father's disappearance as a plot device to get you out of the vault is really any different than sending you out in search of a water chip or the G.E.C.K. They're just a game-world incentive to get your character on his or her way, and at least this time there is a more personal nature to your quest.

Let me explain this very simply: having a father and then leaving the vault to go after him forces a motivation on your character (he apparently *wants* to leave the Vault to go after his father, while this isn't the case in Fallout), the father also features prominently throughout the game (hence railroading you to follow him around, again no such thing in either of the first two games). It also forces you to play a 19-year old kid, and gives your character more background you didn't need to know.

"Twitch-based" gameplay is largely a matter of pacing rather than the simple fact that it takes place in real-time. Your accuracy with ranged weapons is still affected by your weapon skills, and from the previews I see ranged combat very much like the original Deus Ex and the ranged combat in Daggerfall and Morrowind. You make the decision to act in real-time, but your success rate is largely determined by your character's skills.

No matter how much you're going to twist it around, this isn't even close to Fallout's much more tactical combat system. You still act in real-time, you cannot make any strategic decisions that you think about other than 'am I going to shoot his head, or his leg?'. In effect, this simply acts as a weird form of real-time with pause, a far cry from Fallout's combat system.
And seeing as how you still have to make decisions quickly in real-time, and even shoot if you're out of action points, yes this is still reflex based. Deus Ex was also reflex based, and also wasn't a full RPG. The way this is shaping up suggests simply a FPS/RPG hybrid. Which is completely opposite to Fallout's original design.

 

[Vault 69er]

I find that I also skip voiced dialogue.... until I turn the subtitles off. Then suddenly it becomes very interesting. It's amazing how that works, I've known other people to have the same feelings.

Tried that. I still get tired and want to skip, only now I don't know what's being said.
Some people just prefer to read. I will always regard full voice acting as superfluous and a hindrance on good dialogue.
Voices for special characters like Fallout, or the frequent mix of voiced and written dialogue in NWN2 are far more ideal.

 

[Sander]

They feel more artificial to you, Dragon. Don't state opinion as fact.
To me, voice actors going on and on feels artificial. I often skip voiced dialogue because I get sick of it.
And what you describe is almost exactly what the interactive movies tried to do as far as attitude choice instead of dialogue goes.
Interruptions and expressions were also done in old, old adventure games such as Sentient for the Playstation. It never amounted to anything more than a gimmick.

I find that I also skip voiced dialogue.... until I turn the subtitles off. Then suddenly it becomes very interesting. It's amazing how that works, I've known other people to have the same feelings.

Doesn't work, it just annoys the piss out of me. Especially in the Gothic games.

 

[Stag]

I'm not really annoyed by voice acting, but once I've read something, do I really need to wait another ten seconds to hear it?

Mass Effect looks very interesting, but I don't like the idea of having a sort of lottery of dialog options. I'm playing a character, I pick what he says.

The fact that IN doesn't affect dialog isn't only a problem with the IN<4 PCs, in Fallout IN affected all levels of dialog. PCs who had 10 IN had far more dialog options than a 6, and a bit more than an 8, and one more than a 9 (which really should've been more). It's logical for greater intelligence to provide more dialog options. And more than that, it's immersive.

I wouldn't terribly mind the background of the Father being provided, but this is Fallout. This is an RPG.

I really don't understand why Beth can't offer a full TB option in the game. I don't see it taking very much time out of production, and it would make so many fans so much happier.

 

[Vault 69er]

The problem with IN affecting dialogue is that it'd offend Todd Howard, who we all know has an IN of 3 or less.

 

[Grey_Wolf]

Toilet Healing.

I don't care(need to keep the stims though). You can drink from all bodies of water. I'm curious thought if the "outdoorsman" perk will come into play though.

And as long as they keep Stim packs, and they are prevalent throughout. I'm content.

Dialogue.

So far. It seems pretty decent. Hope they do a good job on it.

Fat Man.

Heheheh, nuking a Mutant.
I don't mind to much. Adds a different type of strategy to it.
and not like it's too hard to do. (if you know your physics)

Rock-it.

Good. If i was in a post nuke situation like FO, i'd be finding useful ways to use "junk" to my advantage.

G.O.A.T. character creation.

Meh. No idea.

Mr. Liam Neeson's role.

Depends how he does it.

Weapons being degraded over time.

YES! just not to fast, and not to slow. I'm VERY interested in the weapons modding and upgrading abilities. When you scrap a weapon.

How the environment has been translated.

If the environment is destructible, it would make a battle a little more interesting.
Especially if you can knock a building/bill board onto a super mutant or something.

 

[Morbus]

Toilet Healing.
Crap, pure and simple. No game should EVER have anything close to eat=heal let alone a Fallout game.
"Oh! I are attacked. I got a bullets on me belly and me insides is bleed! Quick! Geeme food."

Dialogue.
Don't know. I don't believe they have the skill to match fallout's quality level regarding dialog... I'm not THAT worried about it, though I'm perfectly sure it will be worse and kind of watered down...

Fat Man.
lol do I even need to say anything about this? Ok, I'll say: anyone who things fat man is anything near good is a moron, and that's it.

Rock-it.
Not as bad as Fat Man. Could even turn to be a nice thing and all... But with bethesda in the lead? I have my doubts.

G.O.A.T. character creation.
Fuck shit for noob kids. Thank god it can be skipped, so it doesn't really bothers me. I don't like it, but I don't hate it either.

Mr. Liam Neeson's role.
I CAN NOT KILL HIM!

Weapons being degraded over time.
The guy who thought of that must have a huge amount of sand in the place where his brain should be... It's not realistic, it's not good. 'Nough said.

How the environment has been translated.
I don't think I understand what you mean, but I don't like the inexistence of a decent true world map, I don't like the gameworld's scale, I don't like mutants everywhere, much less bos hunting them, I don't like click and kill playstyle, I don't like the inexistence of point and click controls, nor the inexistence of a small box for descriptions of combat and objects and characters and everthing.

 

[xdarkyrex]

Toilet Healing.
Crap, pure and simple. No game should EVER have anything close to eat=heal let alone a Fallout game.
"Oh! I are attacked. I got a bullets on me belly and me insides is bleed! Quick! Geeme food."

you don't seem to remember the food that heals you in fallout do you...?

 

[Sorrow]

Only the strange fruit, which probably has some healing properties due to the mutation. Other kinds of food don't heal.

 

[xdarkyrex]

Only the strange fruit, which probably has some healing properties due to the mutation. Other kinds of food don't heal.

there was a warm meal you could get at moms diner.

and also you could eat iguana on a stick (i think it gave a couple hp?)

 

[Sorrow]

No, they didn't give the characters HP.

 

[xdarkyrex]

Oh, hmm.

Well I gotta be honest, the games strict reliance on stimpacks always annoyed me.

Plus it still hasn't been confirmed that water even heals you. I think actually that there is a new upkeep of hunger and thirst. (immersion lol)


I wouldn't mind too much. Seems unnecessary, but that wouldn't bother me. Plus, drinking out of a toilet was only a for-instance. It's not like toilets are the future version of sinks.

 

[Vault 69er]

Oh, hmm.

Well I gotta be honest, the games strict reliance on stimpacks always annoyed me.

What?
First Aid?
Doctor?
Robodocs?
Healers?
Healing Powder? (F2)
Strict reliance?

Plus it still hasn't been confirmed that water even heals you. I think actually that there is a new upkeep of hunger and thirst. (immersion lol)

Many previews have mentioned that the toilets heal HP.

It's not like toilets are the future version of sinks.

Tell that to Todd.

 

[Grey_Wolf]

No game should EVER have anything close to eat=heal let alone a Fallout game.
"Oh! I are attacked. I got a bullets on me belly and me insides is bleed! Quick! Geeme food."

I remember in FO1 i would get randomly stopped "sometimes" to find water (as i had pawned my flask).
So it's really not THAT strange of a concept.

Also FO2 had options where u could eat fruit, and some other options for other effects (Cookie)
and mix the effects up by combining them into a super stim (nuka cola + mutated fruit).

Or are you harshing on FO1 &2?

 

[Dougly]

Only the strange fruit, which probably has some healing properties due to the mutation. Other kinds of food don't heal.

there was a warm meal you could get at moms diner.

and also you could eat iguana on a stick (i think it gave a couple hp?)

The iguana on the stick didn't give any hit points, but I'm pretty sure that Mom's diner did. Also, in F1, if you talked that girl who was a member of the gang in Junktown into taking responsibility for her life, she became a cook - and, if you return to Junktown later on, she'll make a meal for you that I believe restores your health.

What about eating in Modoc? I know if you eat the Brahmin testicles, you just get poisoned. But, if you order any of the other food there, does it do anything for your hit points?

I think the idea of drinking water to heal is somewhat corny in that it sounds like it will make the game feel more first person shooter-ish. However, I don't care as much about it as I used to. You certainly can't say that F1 and F2 never used food as a way to heal the character, and, really, healing from drinking water doesn't have any less basis in SCIENCE! than healing from Mom's ratloaf.

 

[Grey_Wolf]

What about eating in Modoc? I know if you eat the Brahmin testicles, you just get poisoned. But, if you order any of the other food there, does it do anything for your hit points?

Btw, i agree with ya Dougly, and yeah, at Modoc if you ordered the "special" omelets, you got a great boost to your life.

 

[Stag]

New topic: exploding cars. Your opinions, gentlemen.

 

[Black]

Fallout: Fast and Furious (and totally retarted).

 

[Grey_Wolf]

Exploding Cars: Got no problem with them. As long as they are not ridiculously over exaggerated. And if you can swipe some of the "combustibles" from them, then i am made content.

It's no different than the Exploding barrels from Fallout Tactics.
or a well placed C4 charge before a battle.

 

[Vault 69er]

Exploding Cars: Got no problem with them. As long as they are not ridiculously over exaggerated. And if you can swipe some of the "combustibles" from them, then i am made content.

It's no different than the Exploding barrels from Fallout Tactics.
or a well placed C4 charge before a battle.

I'd say exploding nuclear cars that go up in mini-mushroom clouds is vastly different. And utterly retarded.