Zombie Apocalyse- OCC- General Discussion

[SuAside]

On the T-Bone's rooftop-
"First of all," said Dr. Hausmann, "that's only a .32, not a .357 Magnum. I can handle that with one arm. Of course, you knew that and you were just testing me."

- .357 Magnum Revolver (6 shot cylinder)

looks mighty potent for a .32, doesn't it?

i think it's fair to assume the professional hunter knows his weapons.

i know where your error comes from, but the original post was changed before the game even started Handy (not only the weapon but a skill as well). do you think a biggame hunter would have a .32 backup piece? good luck stopping a raging bear with that... hell, i wouldn't even trust it to stop a pissed off boar. hence i negociated some changes with Welsh.

either way, it's a .357 & always was (you can check the passage where Luke blows the head off Horst as he/it is assaulting the doc).

it'd have been a decent test for the doc, true, but Luke isn't quite in the state of mind to come up with tests and mental games.

 

[Mr. Handy]

You're right. I was looking at the original post in the Character Thread, which wasn't changed. I do see where you have a .357 Magnum in your post below that, and Welsh never informed me of the change. I'll edit my IC post after work.

 

[welsh]

Handy- I think Beth is closer to the exit that Azadeh, but ahead of either Bob or Bud.

As for Watchamacallit- haven't heard from him, but I will pm at the Play@yog-sothoth game to find out what's up.

Suaside, will send you the core Cthulhu rules today.

 

[welsh]

Suaside- I am getting an error message sending you the rules. I assume the pdfs are too big for you.

Tried to send to both your hotmail address and the one listed here. Do you have another?

 

[Stompie]

i know where your error comes from, but the original post was changed before the game even started Handy (not only the weapon but a skill as well). do you think a biggame hunter would have a .32 backup piece? good luck stopping a raging bear with that... hell, i wouldn't even trust it to stop a pissed off boar. hence i negociated some changes with Welsh.

well, you don't shoot the bear, SuAside. You pop it off in the air. basic hunter knowledge. bears don't like loud noises. even pissed bears. from the front, you have a good chance of hitting skull, ribs, or shoulder blades. thick bone.

Boar's... are fairly hard to kill from my experiance, with small pieces. I used to use a .273... BAD idea for boars. especially if you get them from a bad angle. However, You could stop a boar with a .32; Ive seen them stopped with smaller. I used to hunt with an ex CHP Officer, and his alcaholic friend. We went boar hunting. anyway - the alchy brought his .25 Auto, bran new; and his sporterized Springfield '03. anyway - he did the stupidist thing a guy could do; leaving his gun in the woods, while he alone; went to his truck. (about a mile and a half) we hear about 12 pops, and go running. we find him about to start quartering a boar, with this big smile. He took it down, with a .25 Auto. hit its vitles from behind.



Long story short - stoping power isnt everything. a .357 to a big critter's shoulderblade is just going to piss it off. especially HP's.



I rolled for wallace, and it came up 39 vs 40 skill.


Anyway, welsh - I will post the stats for the Colt Python, vs the .357 Desert Eagle, and some other large caliber weapons(world.guns.ru source)

Desert Eagle .357 Autoloader
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg16-e.htm
Country of Origon - USA
Cal's - 9x19 (Baby Eagle) .357, .44, .50AE .440 COR-Bon
Magazine cap's 15, 9,8,7

Colt Python
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg69-e.htm
Country of Origon - USA
Cal- .357
Magazine Cap - 6 round cylender

Taurus Raging Bull (Cabella's?)
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg42-e.htm
Country of Origon- Brazil
Cal - .454 Cussal, .45 Longcolt
Magazine cap- 5 round cylender
(There's you're backup pea-shooter, SuAside)

I'm bored now- so.... there you go. I'll throw up some more large caliber weapons, and different common rifles. (trying to debate advantages/disadvantages to auto's vs revolvers) [/img]

 

[SuAside]

OCC- Azadeh killed one of the zombies inside the diner, leaving 9 in the front area. Bo killed a zombie that would have entered the front of the diner next round. Two more people on the roof each killed a zombie in the rear of the diner, leaving 96 total (87 outside). Zombies will get in both through the front and the office windows next round. Two of the zombies behind the diner have taken 9 damage to the head - one more hit to either of them will finish them off.

Bob already killed one at the front last round.

well, you don't shoot the bear, SuAside. You pop it off in the air. basic hunter knowledge. bears don't like loud noises. even pissed bears. from the front, you have a good chance of hitting skull, ribs, or shoulder blades. thick bone.

we'll see how you'll react when a pissed grizzly walks out of the bushes at 10 meters away from you without a rifle ready. something tells me you aint going to scare it off with the bang of a .32

Boar's... are fairly hard to kill from my experiance, with small pieces. I used to use a .273... BAD idea for boars. especially if you get them from a bad angle. However, You could stop a boar with a .32; Ive seen them stopped with smaller.

so just because you can, means you have to?

Long story short - stoping power isnt everything. a .357 to a big critter's shoulderblade is just going to piss it off. especially HP's.

but it'll provide enough power to kill any beast if aimed well enough. it's also a compromise between power and weight/size.

it's hard to shoot a bear in the shoulderblades when he's facing you, you know

Taurus Raging Bull (Cabella's?)
Cal - .454 Cussal, .45 Longcolt
Magazine cap- 5 round cylender
(There's you're backup pea-shooter, SuAside)

too big & heavy.

Luke is not a pistol hunter, he's a big game hunter that uses rifles. why don't you make him lug around an S&W .500 while you're at it?

 

[welsh]

Remember- The hallway is narrow and there are two exits out (up to the roof or down into the 'shelter') but that people have to choose and move through. You can't just run out because you want to escape, especially when other characters are ahead.

 

[Mr. Handy]

@SuAside:
Thanks, SuAside, I'd missed that one. I see Luke and Bob have each taken out another zombie, as has Alice. That leaves 92 in all at the diner (7 inside). Bob certainly would be capable of seeing the satchel charge being placed under Luke's truck, but since he's busy shooting zombies I'd say you should roll Spot Hidden for him to see if he does. I don't know if Buzz was in his line of sight when he went down or not, so I'll let Welsh field that one. The people on the roof may have seen it if they were looking in that direction. Flip saw both, since he was outside and looking that way anyhow and wasn't doing anything else.

@Steve:
Even with Jim Kerr's excellent Listen roll, those dogs are a couple of flights below and there are guns going off all over the place, so it's doubtful he could hear them. He'd have heard anything else within earshot, though. I'd say he heard the burst of gunfire outside. It sounds to him like it came from the west or southwest. Jim can also shoot at one of the zombies climbing in the window this round. It's not point blank considering his position, so for a headshot he has a (62-5)=57% chance to hit.

@Stompie:
You'll want to post soon; if Flip doesn't move, the zombies will be on him next round. Even if he fails his Sanity check, he can still run in panic in the direction you choose.

@Welsh:
A headshot requires precision aim, which means someone can fire at most once per round when doing one. That's what I've been doing when posting characters' actions, but I've seen other characters firing two headshots per round. How should we handle this?

I'm going to make a couple of edits in my earlier posts to reflect the fact that Ellen didn't actually climb up the ladder yet. I also decided to be generous and make those two shotguns in the crates semi-auto instead of pump action (the manifest didn't say which kind they were), so they have a rate of fire of 2 but still a magazine cap of 5. Then I'll post a small update (no time passes) on Ellen and Jenny's actions as well as quick responses to the others' posts (I'll let Dr. Hausmann fire at a zombie this round), but I'll wait until Friday or Saturday to do a full update.

 

[welsh]

I think if you are going with a precision shot, than you have to do some aiming so it's one shot.

That said, Suaside often allows his characters a double tap. I will allow that as long as the player has more than one shot per round. So a 9 mm automatic could often fire 3 shots a round, a double tap would be fine.

That said, I am a bit concerned about burst fire and obstruction.

I think at most a burst can be no more than 1/2 the magazine, and should be 1/4 of the magazine.

I also think the +5% is good up till 90% but no more than that. Given the risk of malfuction, you also have to allow some room to miss.

The more a target is obstructed, the less your chance to hit. If a target is 95% under good cover, than the player gets at most a 5% chance to hit.

Problem there- it makes the math messy.

I am also tempted to say that you can't precise aim and burst shoot at the same time. THe kick of the gun would ruin aim of the precise shot.

 

[Mr. Handy]

Okay, from now on I'll have characters with weapons that can fire twice perform double taps when using precision aim. Sally killed the last two zombies she shot with a single hit each, so this wouldn't have affected her earlier. I rolled the second shot for Stephanie's double tap now and put the results in the update I'm making - she got a 1!

I added my thoughts on burst fire in the rules and guidelines thread. Note that if someone actually has over 90% SMG skill, their skill should not be reduced to 90% when firing a burst. Otherwise, what's the point of being that good?

I'm not sure what to do about obstruction. Some obstructions are thin enough to be penetrated by a burst. The math would get tricky as well.

 

[Stompie]

we'll see how you'll react when a pissed grizzly walks out of the bushes at 10 meters away from you without a rifle ready. something tells me you aint going to scare it off with the bang of a .32

better than... further pissing it off by shooting it.

too big & heavy.

Luke is not a pistol hunter, he's a big game hunter that uses rifles. why don't you make him lug around an S&W .500 while you're at it?

....... .500 S&W = Railroad Spike

Hmmm...Dule-Wield?

To be honest, anything (revolvers, especially) bigger than a .357 are a bad idea, for... say - the undead. Muzle climb vs. cylender size.

Stoping power looses all meaning after a point, with the undead. They arent much for using cover, they don't make kevlar vests and spectra helmates a habit... you're better off with a big magazine. (hmm... 6 rounds of .38, or .357- vs... 15(+1) of 9x19 Para).

.454's are for big game and target shooting... and a conversation piece... (and for... shooting, skinning, and deboning in one step) [/quote]

 

[Mr. Handy]

Just because Flip failed his Sanity roll, it doesn't mean he can't move. He can still run into the diner as he did before (though in panic), so you should edit your post to put that back. Also, Wallace did exactly 10 damage with his shot, thus killing that zombie.

Yeah, the faster rate of fire of a 9mm more than makes up for the reduced damage. A 10mm is even better, as it fires just as fast and has a little extra punch, as Stephanie can attest. Slightly lower magazine cap, but it makes it more likely for two head hits (or one for that matter) to kill a zombie.

 

[SuAside]

A headshot requires precision aim, which means someone can fire at most once per round when doing one. That's what I've been doing when posting characters' actions, but I've seen other characters firing two headshots per round. How should we handle this?

I think if you are going with a precision shot, than you have to do some aiming so it's one shot.

That said, Suaside often allows his characters a double tap. I will allow that as long as the player has more than one shot per round. So a 9 mm automatic could often fire 3 shots a round, a double tap would be fine.

well, doubletap is standard police and army training. but it wouldn't be very logical to doubletap with a .357 revolver for instance.

either way, with Bob's strength&dex it really shouldn't be any problem to doubletap with a 9mm beretta.

for less physically powerful character you could maybe apply a -5% skill to the second shot, to illustrate the recoil. (but that takes us back into the realm of mathcraft)

*snip*

wts sense of humour

On the T-Bone's rooftop-
"Danke," said Dr. Hausmann, taking the .357 Magnum in her right hand while Mrs. Foo collected the ammo. The older woman helped the doctor steady herself as she took aim at one of the creatures below. "My broken arm is causing me more pain than my good one will feel, and I had some painkillers earlier." She fired, hitting the zombie Charlie had wounded earlier in the head and finishing it off. The kick was powerful, but she was a stronger than average woman. She made an effort not to wince. The pain was only a dull throb, but when the drugs wore off she knew she would pay.

Luke meant that the recoil would travel through her body, and affect her wounded arm. (not her healthy one)

 

[welsh]

Regarding the double tap issue-

This is my thinking (and again Handy, feel free to dispute this).

Some weapons have an advantage in firing three shots per round, others have an advantage of firing two.

I would think that one cannot double tap with a rifle- at least not precisely.

But a pistol is normally used in short range fighting, within 20 yards or so.

Also the double tap is basically a second shot at the same target, in the same general place on the target. One shoots, and then reacquires the same target, controls the recoil and fires again.

But that's a big difference with shooting at three different targets in a round.

Let's say that Bud with his .38 shoots three times, but at zombies coming from North, South and West directions. I think that's a lot of move and shoot.

So I am thinking you can unload three shots at one time, but not at three different targets coming from three seperate directions. That would seem to stretch plausibility.

 

[Mr. Handy]

Thanks for pointing that out about the recoil, SuAside. I'll edit my previous post.

Double taps with pistols can only be done with those that already have a rate of fire of 2 or better. A .357 Magnum, a .45, or any other pistol with a rate of fire of one has too much recoil to double tap. In fact, a .44 Magnum has so much recoil that its base skill is 15 rather than 20. This means that Jim Kerr, whose skill with a .44 Magnum is 62%, actually has a Handgun skill of 67% (which would apply for other handguns if he were to use them).

You can also use double tap with an SMG in single shot mode, provided it has a rate of fire of 2+, and I agree that using an SMG to fire single shots would use Handgun skill instead of SMG skill. Thus, if Mr. Foo survives to fire his MP-5 again and uses single shots, he would use his Handgun skill of 76% rather than his SMG skill of 53%. In a similar vein, firing a rifled slug from a shotgun uses Rifle skill, not Shotgun skill - this is pointed out in the skill descriptions in the rules.

If you have a gun with a rate of fire of 3, you can't fire them at 3 different targets. In the example above, though, Bud's .38 can only fire twice anyway. Michael's Glock has a rate of fire of 3, though. I'm also inclined to say that if you're using precision aim, such as for a headshot, you can only double tap and not fire all 3 shots. If you have a rifle with a rate of fire of 2+, you can fire that many shots per round, but probably not with precise aim.

I'll post the rest of this round's update soon. If I can't get it done tonight, I'll finish it after I've had some sleep.

 

[Stompie]

Since we're on the subject; For revolvers; what about fanning?
(Getting a little bit "Bonanza" on you guys). It isn't realy practical, being done from the hip, with no real componsation for recoil; or true effort put twards aiming; it is a way to get the lead out with a revolver. (Still a bad idea, with anything bigger than a .38 though... especially with those waffled wooden grip's... can you say "Shreaded palms"? )

There are alot of quick firing methods, that sacrafice accuracy for speed; that are endorced by police, and military organizations. (fanning, odviously, isnt.)

Rifle's, shotguns and pistols can be fired from the hip, in closer encounters. (Shotguns and pistols mostly)

the exposed barrel length is greatly reduced, when the butt isn't pressed against you're shoulder.

Can.... Repair skill = weapon modification? (Can... I take... say- a P-85, and do away with that nasty simi-automatic-ness?)

 

[Stompie]

post= edited.

 

[Mr. Handy]

The spot rules for combat mention unaimed shots, where you fire at double the rate of fire but at 1/5 skill. I think fanning would fall under this. Thus, a .38 revolver could fire 4 shots per round in this manner, but you'd only have 1/5 skill and if you're shooting at multiple targets they'd be selected randomly. They also state that with laser sights, training, and Handgun 60% or higher, the chance to hit with an unaimed shot is normal.

As for weapon modifications, I think Mechanical Repair could be used for that, but you'll need a place to work, tools, parts, and most importantly time. You'd also run the risk of ruining the gun on a critical failure. Simple mods, like sawing off a shotgun barrel, would probably just roll against Mechanical Repair skill and wouldn't take that long. Turning a semi-auto weapon into a full auto weapon would take longer and might have skill penalties. It's the sort of thing you'd be more likely to do with a rifle than a pistol, I'd think.

 

[Steve-the-Zombie-Killer]

How many shots does Jim Kerr have with his pistol? I just fired one bullet and missed badly and I was wondering since the hallway is jammed with people how many shots he has left to kill the zombies coming in. Also he heard Buddy and Max barking but noone else seems to notice. Was his roll that good?

 

[Mr. Handy]

The .44 Magnum is a revolver. Since Jim fired one shot, he's got five left in the gun. He also has 18 spare bullets. It only fires once per round, but it's quite powerful. Gary will probably head into the corridor next round while Jim covers his retreat, so Jim could fire again. After that I think he'll need to fall back himself. The zombie in the office is now point blank, which means he'll only miss on a malfunction. But if the zombie isn't downed by that one hit it will have a chance to attack him. Luckily, it's powerful enough to do at least 10 damage most of the time. I'll count Jim's last shot as being in the last round, since that was before the zombie got in the window, and he can fire again in the current round. Alice already fired in the last round, so your most recent post is her shot for the current round.

As I mentioned in my latest post in the IC thread, the dogs are a couple of flights down and down a hall, and guns are going off all over the place. There's no way Jim Kerr could have heard the dogs barking even with such a good roll, but I told you what he did hear.