How is Caesar's army not a joke?

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Question2, Jun 20, 2017.

  1. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    The original plan was for Vulpes Inculta to trap the NCR troopers in the town and crucify them. The only reason he turned on the civilians is because he realised the town had no real loyalties, and would happily work with the highest bidder, having no respect for the people of Nipton he decided to involve them in the trap.
    You referring to Nelson by any chance?
    " I don't have to explain the reasoning behind my commands. I just give them - and you do them. That said, every once in a while I hear something so ignorant, I have to respond. This is one of those times. The Profligates' morale is in the shitter. They've occupied the Mojave for years, getting picked off one by one. They were told it'd be easy. They keep being told that victory is right around the corner, that Vegas will roll over, become the sixth state of their little union. It's President Kimball who's been telling them that. When he dies, the enormity of his lies will come crashing down, the punchline to a bad joke."
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  2. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Lanius. The Butcher. Monster of the East.

    Dec 6, 2016

    how can you say that? How does the death of a state leader not affect the same in anything?
  3. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    Because a real life modern military is not designed around the kind of complete collapse which occurs in a monarchy like Caesar's?

    Basically, Caesar just utterly misjudges Kimball and his importance.
  4. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    They're not a real life modern military, though. They're spread thin and heavily demoralized. When their elected president comes for a visit and immediately gets assassinated it's not going to be all that great for morale, either. And since they don't like Kimball to begin with they won't really get all that "righteous anger" thing and make him a martyr or whatever. All they'll see is that they're in the wrong place and that not even their president with his mighty Elite Rangers is safe in the Mojave.
    Yeah, they could continue without any problems, but the troops definitely won't be happy at all.
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  5. Tuffluck

    Tuffluck First time out of the vault

    Jul 13, 2017
    Especially if the assassin were to pull out a .44 magnum and shout "SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS" before shooting him in the face and slaughtering his personal guard. Just saying.
  6. Courier

    Courier Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Apr 10, 2011
    The game takes place in a desert. Guns jam in sandy conditions. Do the math.

    The standard NCR soldier is usually equipped with a service rifle, and those seem to be based on the M16... which was kind of infamously unreliable at the beginning of the Vietnam War. Considering that the NCR is kind of a satire of the US and all its failings I think this interpretation was probably intentional: the reason the Legion is a serious threat is because the NCR has stretched itself too thin and issues its soldiers really crappy guns that can't always be relied on. And when you're busy just trying to get your gun to work properly you're going to be pretty vulnerable to a mass of screaming maniacal slavers running at you with machetes.

    It's not about the Legion being strong per se, it's more an implication of how weak the NCR currently is.
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
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  7. dustovian

    dustovian First time out of the vault

    Jul 20, 2017
    most of the bad rap the M16 gets is because some pencil pushed decided to save some money on ammo by recycling WW2 battleship powder charges instead of proper rifle powder. as for jamming in desert condition i haven't seen anyone who actually cleaned and lubricated their weapon have any issue with that. in fact the tighter tolerances of the M16 provide an advantage over platforms like the AK47 in that they provide less ways for material to get inside the action of the weapon and gum up the works.
  8. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    First off, where the hell are those guys getting guns like that?
    I was deployed overseas as a Gunners mate, if anyone knows about the litany of issues the M-16 series has is me. The military seriously needs to consider updating to a better rifle because the costs alone for replacement parts for those guns is staggering.

    From bore obstructions, to run away guns (Yes a M-16 can sheer the bolt and run away.), to cracked breaches, to the receiver literally warping from extended use. Comparatively to any other weapon system in the Navy the M-16 series rifles is by far the least liked right next to the garbage M-9 pistol Beretta makes.

    However you are correct about the Vietnam ammo issue, luckily that was corrected.

    If I were you I would look forward to the Stoner rifle redesign the original contractors and engineers are working on. From what I hear it makes the original look like stamped hot garbage.
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  9. Tawûsê

    Tawûsê First time out of the vault

    Jul 20, 2017
    As I'm sure that a mutated pile of poop with psychic powers was able to create an army of brutish monsters with varying levels of intelligence, I'm sure that Caesar was capable of pulling a few guerrilla tactics from a few of the historical records he kept.

    If you can keep your suspension of disbelief in check for most of the rather silly and ludicrous stuff presented by the setting, I'm sure you can imagine Caesar's Legion being quite capable of opposing the NCR.
  10. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    ...and other, european rifles

    Would you "western world"-guys stop raping a twisted StG. 44 pack of blueprints by heavens' sake?
    I'd rather see SPIW monstrosity in action, issued with a jetpack.
  11. Apollyon

    Apollyon First time out of the vault

    Apr 29, 2017
    Look at it this way:

    If two people are going to fight; One gets a knife, one gets a gun; Who wins?

    Some of you may say "Ofcourse, the man with the gun will just shoot the man with the knife."

    But here is the catch. The man with the gun cannot see the man with the knife. The man with the knife is invisible. The man with the knife knows he is fucked if he gets caught in the open. But if he catches the man with the gun off-guard, he's certain to win the fight. The man with the knife simply hides and waits for the right moment to strike.

    So in this case I will say the man with the highest intellect and most patience will defeat the other. He will understand his own strengths and weaknesses, and his enemy's. That's truly what war is about.

    Now apply this concept to a larger scale and voila.
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  12. Walpknut

    Walpknut Testament to the ghoul lifespan

    Dec 30, 2010
    The Legion forces are compossed of hundreds of men that have been trained since infancy for warfare and to relinquish their lives if it needs to be during combat, they make heavy use of guerilla tactics, subterfuge and even use child suicide bombers not to mention their men are high on andrenaline and tribal medicine which also makes them extremely vicious in combat with their strongest members equipped with explosives and brush guns. They also employ attack dogs on the field. And all of them believe in the cause with religious fervor.

    The NCR army is compossed of volunteers and conscripted youths with limited equipment, low morale and several groups within the military having their doubts about the validty pf their campaign. Sure they have superior equipment... in theory, but not all of them have the proper training and their resources are stretched thin.

    It's not just about having the highest bullet caliber.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
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  13. mkba

    mkba First time out of the vault

    Jun 10, 2017
    for the defence of the legion , IRC the ncr itself use or authorise slavery ( the cages outside shady sands in fallout 2 , also the families in new reno and the fucking vault city ( which in my universe is inhabited by corpses ( insult someone in power armor and equiped with plasma rifle is a bad idea lynette )))
  14. Walpknut

    Walpknut Testament to the ghoul lifespan

    Dec 30, 2010
    Vault City and New Reno isn't NCR until after the events of Fo2, the slavers outside Shady Sands aren't legally allowed by NCR law, in fact joining them brands you an enemy of the NCR rangers, Brahmin barons do purchase their service but it's still illegal.
  15. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    Plus there's deserters, such as Layla.

    "I like to think that we are Prisoners Of War that managed to escape before capture. I don't know how long it'll be before the Legion crosses the river, but sure as fuck I don't want to be wearing an NCR uniform when they get here."

    Whereas the Legion, well I doubt they'd have many deserters, if any really.
  16. mkba

    mkba First time out of the vault

    Jun 10, 2017
    my bad i wasn't so interested in ncr in fallout 2 for personal reasons , and the time of new vegas i discovered that i am more inclinate to join the legion than the opposite ( in fact i never saw the ncr's endings )
  17. Walpknut

    Walpknut Testament to the ghoul lifespan

    Dec 30, 2010
    Deserters get nailed to a cross.
  18. The Lone Poopyface

    The Lone Poopyface First time out of the vault

    Jun 17, 2016
    Can I just point out that NCR troops are given around two weeks of training according to some rangers and the NCR Merchant at the 188.

    The Legion on the other hand train their entire lives to be fully self sufficient. They grow up in tribes learning how to fight and survive. They are then indoctrinated into fighting for the Legion. Not only that but pointed out by a caravaner at The Fort and by Cass is that the Legion has strong control of their borders and that they are jealous of Legion caravans. The NCR on the other hand can't control their Frontier and reportedly can't even properly manage the LA Boneyard. Also the guerrilla capabilities are outstanding. They are able to take Nipton which on the path that they took to it has Raiders in key positions,caravans traveling the roads,a ranger station doing patrols,a deathclaw up in the mountains and after going through that they had to take over an entire town and still had minimal losses.

    Also Ceasar explains how the NCR is the thesis and the Legion is the antithesis and after he takeover he will create a synthesis .

    Mr.House is still the best ending...
  19. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    Those cages outside the NCR are "Holding Cells". They are technically abusing loopholes since they are in an area just outside Shady Sands and outside of the NCRs jurisdiction.

    They are there so slavers can drop off slaves before actually entering NCR territory, since the slaves would legally be considered free people when in the NCR.

    Slavery is fully illegal inside NCR borders, and the Rangers even have a habit of gunning down slavers outside the borders if they can get away with it.
  20. TorontRayne

    TorontRayne This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    It seems like people are forgetting how many times a well trained guerrilla force kicked the shit out of a technologically advanced army.