What's Trump up to now?

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Mr Fish, Nov 16, 2016.

  1. Kilus

    Kilus Antiantibiotic Orderite

    May 3, 2003
    The process takes years not months and surgery isn't in the cards for many transgender people anyway. Also female to male transgender people exist.
     
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  2. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    Trans folk are encouraged to go through consistent psychological assessment and to try hormone treatments before going for the sex change surgery. The surgery itself is usually done as a last step, and only done if they are sure that this is what they want.

    If they come to regret it later, well they made an informed decision, and came to regret it.
     
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  3. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Alright. Bill-C16 in Canada:


    She pretty much sums up what I think about it.
     
  4. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    "This enactment amends the Canadian Human Rights Act to add gender identity and gender expression to the list of prohibited grounds of discrimination."

    Everyone is saying this is censorship, but by the sounds of it, it is simply adding gender-identity to an already existing hate-crime law.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Human_Rights_Act
    "The Canadian Human Rights Act is a statute passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1977 with the express goal of extending the law to ensure equal opportunity to individuals who may be victims of discriminatory practices based on a set of prohibited grounds such as sex, sexual orientation, race, marital status, creed, age, colour, disability, political or religious belief."

    This law already applies to sex, orientation, race, ect. Why does adding one extra thing make it more/less censorship than it was before?
     
  5. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Then tell me please, how do you 'force' people to respect you?


    See, this is the thing here. Offering everyone an equal oportunity is a great thing! I want all people to have the same chance to succeed.

    Telling someone that you have to use a certain 'word', is wrong. It's not cencorship, it's creating an situation where you can't use your own words. It's setting a presedence in my opinion.

    It sounds like they want people to force to respect transgenders by using a pronoun they chose or something. How is that going to help their cause? I don't get it. How is it helping them to gain equality and respect by forcing people to acknowledge their pronoun? Does an homophobe think more highly from a homosexual if he was forced to acknolwedge homosexuals as equal sexuality?
     
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  6. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dark side in da houssah

    Nov 22, 2009
    Some languages have a gender-based words for pronouns and articles etc. (he, she, etc.). In Finnish there is only one word for he/she, hän. In Swedish I think they've been planning to go to similar system, only one word for third person singular. I don't see what's so bad about that, languages change. Finnish has been more egalitarian and less chauvinistic from the start.
     
  7. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    Did you not read my post? Did you have a generic response prepared in case someone disputed what you posted?

    What I was saying was, this is adding a modification to an already existing hate-crime law.

    If this hate-crime law hasn't caused problems before, why is it suddenly going to cause problems when "gender identity" is added to the list.

    Were this bill censoring free speech, or forcing people to respect others, I'd oppose it just like you, but from the sounds of it you are opposing a slight modification to an already existing hate-crime law.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
  8. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Ninja Lurker

    Oct 27, 2003
    Just like people can call me a stupid chinky selfish motherfucker, I can go tell them to fuck off.

    If someone expects me to use some dumbass word like HERM, then they are going to be disappointed. Also, the law is bullshit if they are going to accuse me of a hate crime if I choose not to use the word HERM.

    YES I know HERM is from Zoolander 2.
     
  9. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    In my opinion it's just rather stupid because it's based on a false assumption. Grammatical genus is not actually related to biological gender. It's called "masculinum" and "femininum" because those two words made for a good analogy when teaching Latin, not because the words had any particular meaning or subtext in that context. Trying to force a change in language to change a process of thought (which, again, is based on a falsehood and doesn't actually work) is literally Newspeak, and it does ruin a language. Yes, languages change, but these are natural processes stemming from the interaction between written and spoken versions of that language.
     
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  10. Risewild

    Risewild Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    That is the case.
    In Portuguese every word in the language is either "female" or "male" and it is not by a biological gender. Table is a female word while Cabinet is male. Human is male while Person is female, etc.
    It would be impossible to just change this language in such a way since the entire language depends on these two genders.
    I assume it is the same with any latin language (italian, portuguese, spanish, french, etc).
     
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  11. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dark side in da houssah

    Nov 22, 2009
    The example I used (he/she or in Swedish hon/han) is especially about third person singular that is specifically gender-based term. Yes, I know about masculine, feminine, neutral, etc. words in some languages. Those are ok in my view if they're not linked to gender, I guess. Can't say for sure until I look more closely into the matter in all languages.
    Swedish Hen-case.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hen_(pronoun)

    There's also been some discussion about should there be, for example in English but in other languages as well, gender-based words like waiter/waitress etc. Should there be more or less words like this? Should there be president/president-ess? Police/polic-ess?
     
  12. Cimmerian Nights

    Cimmerian Nights So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2004
    Newsflash: changing the name doesn't change the reality of the circumstances. No matter what you call a dude in a wheelchair, it's not gonna help him walk. This is symbolic shit made for middle class white suburban liberals to feel better about themselves without actually having to help or confront the reality.
     
  13. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    I agree completely. Laws should not restrict what you can and can't say.

    Which is why I'm against the New York law that can fine you for misuse of pronouns.

    However, Bill C-16 doesn't seem to be deeming incorrect pronoun usage as hate crimes despite what everyone is saying about it. It is simply expanding an already existing hate-crime law, known as "The Canadian Human Rights Act" to involve Gender Identity.

    Hate crime laws usually are regarding practices like refusing service to someone for discriminatory reason, or inciting harassment against a group of people. We have no reason to believe that any tribunal will ever deem incorrect pronoun usage as a hate-crime.
     
  14. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    I find that to be ridiculous, what's wrong with how things are working out right now? I don't get why there should be this progressive bullshit like "president-ess" and "polic-ess", it works fine the way it does now so why should it be changed to something like this? It sounds like satire and I don't think there should be any replacements to something gender neutral as it sounds like someone wants to avoid triggering someone cause they were referred to by the wrong gender pronoun.

    I mean the way I see it if you're not going to bother passing to look like a woman and you look like a man or vise versa then why should I refer to you as the "proper" gender if you don't make the effort? Also as for the million different genders, there's two and two only.

    Probably going to get flack for my opinons. :P
     
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  15. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Yes, languages change, but they usually don't change by 'law'. Can you remember a time where a government told people to use a certain pronoun? I wouldn't even know how that could effectively work in German tobe honest, they are closed linguistic forms for a reason.

    For example, in German 'Them/They' is the same word like 'She'. I couldn't even imagine the confussion if it would be also used to describe a single person.

    The fact that some people demand a legislative change here just shows how much they don't know about languages/grammar. And the people which call those that criticise such legislations 'bigoted' or even 'sexist/racist' show what their motivation and agenda here really is. Dude, I am a leftist, you can believe me when I tell you that they have lost their mind today and THEY(!) are the reason why the right and extreme right is gaining so much traction these days, because the people are simply fucked up their agendas which has zero to do with solving the real issues here.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with protecting people, either from discrimination or harassment, not to mention that this pronoun legislative will do nothing, to make people acknowledge or respect transgenders. Again, you can not 'force' people to respect you.

    See the person in the video above, I would call her a 'she' and I would have absolutely no problem with that, and that is because I recognize her as such, based on all the definitions that we use in society and I would respect her as a person, because I like her opinion and attitude.

    If some random 'dude' with a beard, a schlong between his legs and all other masculine traits came to me and demanding the pronoun 'she' then I would probably call him crazy and tell him to get lost. And then with the right laws, my employe could be sued by that person, I might be fired from my job if he was my coworker, and everyone would be probably happy that justice was surved I guess ... But things never work like that. It just means that everyone will be walking on egg shells all the damn time and that transgenders would face even more difficulties then they do now.

    Dude, seriously, go watch the videos I provided. Yes, I am opposing this modification because it is going to far in my opinion.
     
  16. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dark side in da houssah

    Nov 22, 2009
    I don't think it's the progressives demanding for more "-ess", actually I think it's the opposite.
     
  17. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    In Germany they do, or rather, they demand to call it like "policist*ess" or "policist_ess".
     
  18. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    Did you actually read the post you were responding to, because the videos you posted don't seem to answer why adding an extra topic to an already existing hate-crime law, would make said law any more or less censorship than it already is.

    If the Canadian Human Rights Act hasn't caused any trouble before, when it was about Sex, Race, Sexuality, ect., why would adding "Gender Identity" to it cause any trouble?

    Bill C-16 isn't adding any new laws, its simply modifying an already existing law, designed to protect people from discrimination(Which means you can't advocate violence against certain groups, deny them service, ect.). If there wasn't constant complaint about the law being censorship when it said you can't discriminate against race or sex, why is it now censorship when it's about gender identity?
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
  19. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    Really cause as of right now they're pushing the "muh vagina" bullshit by trying to force shit like this down everyone's throats cause it's all about current year we must acknowledge every correct gender pronoun no matter what word is used or it's a hate crime. I happen to find the way we just use "police" and "president" just fine and don't see a need to change it all of a sudden just because some people think it's progressive or some other garbage.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
  20. Walpknut

    Walpknut Testament to the ghoul lifespan

    Dec 30, 2010
    So it seems Turompu chan is in the middle of pulling a more retarded version of Watergate.
    Ever heard about the whole "Latinx" shit? Some evenattempted to suggest we replace "Los" for "Les" even tho in spanish that makes no sense and sounds stupid.