Why Robert Edwin House is the best hope for the wasteland and humanity

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Throatpunch, Apr 14, 2016.

  1. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    Mister House's plan is entirely dependent on the idea that NCR will forgive the fact he stole the entire point of a war where thousands died on their part because of cheap electricity and water. He basically requires everyone to act in their own self interests which is an attitude which might have flown Pre-War but is likely to run him into serious problems in the Wasteland.
     
  2. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    The NCR's Mojave campaign is getting increasingly unpopular with the folks back home. After the Securitrons decimate Caesar's camp and help the NCR secure the dam, I'd be willing to bet most people would just want the troops to come home. The NCR clearly need the dam, but if House is in control they'll have to abide by his terms. Maybe it'll bite him in the ass, or maybe the next NCR president will acknowledge his sovereignty and be diplomatic.
     
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  3. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    Thats a weird statement to make, since life in the wasteland is basically social darwinism on steroids.

    Everyone acts in their own interests in the wasteland, more than they did pre-war.
     
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  4. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    Unfortunately, not because superstition and personal vengeance have overwhelmed rationale self-interest. There's no reason for the Courier to travel all across the Wasteland to murder Benny except revenge and that's exactly what he does. The Great Khans are focused on revenge on NCR and ignore any signs they're overwhelmed. Caesar focused on Luddite technology versus a modernized military (albeit makes allowances for it--see Camp Searchlight). The Brotherhood of Steel is defined by the Codex.

    In short, they live in such a hellhole that they're more about living by their own rules than logic.

    House is a very logical man.

    The world outside his snowglobe is insane.
     
  5. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    Logic seems to have got him quite far in post apocalyptica already, and no reason why it'd randomly stop working suddenly.

    In fact, I'd say it's his logic that puts him head and shoulders above all the others.
     
  6. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    The thing is, you don't have to go on a mad revenge quest, you can just try and visit the New Vegas Strip for gambling-sakes and end up getting employed by Mr House, or try to finish your delivery for Mr House, or simply be a Legion fanboy wanting to impress Caesar, and you'll be dragged in to the Benny subplot anyway.
     
  7. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    I'd strongly disagree. House's logic is actually where he continually trips up. If he'd been more empathtic then he would have seen Benny's betrayal coming. He also relies on the Courier's greed to motivate him when all three of the endings but his rely on either greater ambition or ideological motivations. There's a reason that one of the answers you can give to House is, "I don't like you."

    But all factions have a weakness and House's weakness is that he is a man literally removed from the rest of humanity and forced to deal only in statistics and videos of New Vegas.
     
  8. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    Benny was always ambitious, taking control from the Chairmen's former leader when they were a tribe. If anything House's cold demeanor means he's less likely to be manipulated or fooled.

    House did underestimate how ruthless Benny was but it's doubtful House didn't see it coming at all. Given his character he must have had some suspicion but he's not going to kill anyone just on mere suspicion.

    House doesn't rely on the Courier's greed so much that he knows realistically financial incentive is what most focus on. He provides a home, he provides employment and generous payment, in a place with higher security than most. Unless you were to have strong NCR/Legion leanings I think most would work for House.

    He does have weaknesses but I don't think you give him enough credit.
     
  9. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    I think that makes House less of a character with actual depth, though, as his weaknesses actually make him a character which has more appeal than an "all according to plan" Palpatine figure.

    As far as everyone knows, Benny is still in charge right up until the Platinum Chip is taken.

    I think that's Old World thinking now. Tribalism is literally a much much bigger attitude in the Mojave than money as the economy is very survival orientated versus House's more developed time.

    Much of this is my impression, though.
     
  10. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Benny was away for times on end, so no that charge should go more to his right hand man, the name which escapes me.
     
  11. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    Swank.
     
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  12. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Yep, that's him.
     
  13. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    I know that it's literally a year since this thread died down. If my act of necroing is unacceptable, then I ask mods to do what they gotta do. But I just noticed that it managed to get this far without me noticing it. I know Doomsdayprepper (may he banned in peace) and @Bubba Zanetti has agreed to disagreed, but I'm not satisfied with his answer and I know I can answer it better. So, here it goes.

    Like I've mentioned in previous pages, since the Mojave is practically untouched but by very few nuclear warheads, it's literally still a good landscape to produce food as evidenced by even a settlement as small as Goodsprings fully capable of farming their own food. Then there's clean water from Colorado River (and also Goodsprings Source), and the best one yet, electricity from Hoover Dam. At the time, NCR is facing a famine problem back west, which is why even something that's seemingly as trivial as food would be really important for them.

    Ehem,
    That doesn't include "the skilled workers, traders, and settlers", ONLY the military personnel, because it also mentioned that the citizens (specifically civilians) of NCR is completely free to visit the Mojave and New Vegas Strip.

    I see evidence to the contrary of what you proclaimed here. His achievement of using older version of an OS to operate Lucky 38, let alone even made it possible to defend Las Vegas and the majority of Mojave area, really, should be enough to know that his schemes is pretty realistic and clear since it's coming from the man like him. However, I'd assume it won't be enough since it's just history now, so I'd list the evidence that would make his schemes pretty clear:

    1. His plan to recover the Platinum Chip, all the way from actually digging the ruins where it was buried, to actually have it delivered to him. It got pretty close to him, as close as Goodsprings, no? Sure, it failed to actually deliver because he's got a Wild Card so close to him (Benny), and you would probably not count this achievement.
    2. Reforming and rehabilitation of tribal gangs, which might not be that impressive considering a man like Caesar also managed to achieve this. But it's still an achievement regardless considering he was all alone, by himself.... or not, since he have his Securitrons, but it's still for the best, for either House or the tribal gangs, especially since the method wasn't as crude as Caesar's. This accomplishment leads to the restoration of Vegas, or rather the Strip in particular, to a working order, just in time to....
    3. Receive the NCR, and instead of getting annexed outright, made a treaty because House was fully aware of the existence of Caesar's Legion readying their horns and hoofs in the east. This ensure that New Vegas remains independent at the time, even though at the sacrifice of 95% of the power (based on New Vegas Treaty) Hoover Dam capable of producing at the time.

    All of these are progress, achievements that no man other than House would be capable to achieve. Going by all of this, and his questline, I'm confident enough to believe that House's plans are pretty clear and realistic, IF it's coming from him and him only.

    Also, I wouldn't say he's too obsessed with Vegas. Yes, he's obsessed, but not THAT obsessed. Because if he is, why would he even bother if the Kings who's based on Freeside made a pact with the NCR or not? Or, since Freeside is too close to the Strip, why would he bother with imposing heavy taxes on Primm if it happens to let the NCR enforce law in there? Besides, his last in-game dialogue with us was literally him "really should do something about that monorail", which might take him anywhere.

    'Two'? Last time I checked, only the Omertas plotted against him, and that's also because they have the Legion backing them. The Chairmen are certainly loyal to him, as evidenced by Swank who's not eager when he hears Benny is messing with Mr. House, and you can even sway him away from helping Benny. As for the White Glove Society, they have 2 leaders with conflicting views; Marjorie, who's completely over their cannibalistic past, and Mortimer who's eager to return to cannibalism. The existence of this conflict, means they're still far from the verse of regression. They are on the way, yes, but you can prevent it.

    Uhh, progress? Is there any in-game evidence to this? As far as I know, people only praise the security they bring, but progress? Their 'Director of Operations of the Office of Science and Industry (OSI) East' is a hack who can't get shit done.

    Also, not to mention they stretch themselves completely thin, and their General Wait-and-See is also a hack who missed the one opportunity they had to finish the Legion once and for all.

    And then it all fall apart when Caesar die. Sure, Boone mentioned of line of succession arranged to inherit Caesar's reign, but there's no one, and I would say not even a hardcore Legion supporter, can say that anyone can do it like Caesar.

    I wouldn't say House is too sloppy, and more like Benny turned out to be a wild card. All that Benny did was delaying the Chip's arrival (if you make a character that support House, that is), and going by the achievements I've listed above, he's certainly not sloppy.

    Besides, he's already maintain a decent measure of control over his subjects, enough to at least keep them from tearing each other apart. Unless, by what you mean 'decent' is more than just 'keep them from tearing each other apart', that would actually be bad for business because, for instance, if he bust through Gomorrah because the Omertas have been illegally hoarding arms, that would actually be bad for business because the other Families and even the NCR would definitely take advantage of such situation. House knows when to play it safe.

    The NCR that's present in Freeside at the time were represented by Elizabeth Kieran, an NCR military personnel (a Major, no less), some missionaries who help with relief effort, AND some squatters. They're called squatters, you know? Just unwanted people taking up spaces in local's home. A pact made with the NCR, and a military personnel on top of that, means the Kings fully support #NCRforNewVegas. That... wouldn't bode well with the head honcho of a major powerhouse in the region who wanted Vegas to stay independent, no?

    Meh, hypocrisy at its finest. The NCR and the Legion can sweep aside a minor obstacle on the way because they're in the way, but when House did it it's not okay?

    And do you think the NCR, with their top brass and upper echelons rife with corruptions and people like General Oliver (incompetent hack) and General Moore (a warmonger, as seen by her unfailing support for Kimball and Oliver to push Mojave Campaign, her preference of militant solution to the Great Khans and the Kings, AND that she's completely opposed to Ambassador Crocker's diplomatic approach to the problems in the Mojave, to the point where she would push for his removal should the Courier choose to do the Crocker's way) would get the Mojave anywhere else, that's better than a House-ruled one or Independent?

    The Legion? Please. They slaughter everyone, unless Caesar is there, and even then many would stand against them or outright leave the Mojave. Not to mention there's no definite signs of anyone who would be able to succeed Caesar or even surpass him. The chance is higher that the Legion would fall apart when Caesar die.

    Hmm, let's see... this is his claims from what I remember:
    Where did he start legislating and dictating what people do in their private time? Benny was completely free to do whatever he wish, to the point of being able to interrupt the Chip's delivery AND returned to the Tops without having anything done to him, and then there's the Omertas who managed to hoard arms in their casino, right under House's nose.

    And he's certainly have no interest in being worshipped as some kind of machine god messiah.

    I know I've mentioned it before, but I'll elaborate further. The Mojave landscape is definitely self-sufficient, since it's untouched by most of the nuclear warheads. Not only independent settlements like Goodsprings are fully capable to farm and produce their own food, there are lots of healthy, clean wildlife that's up for hunting and foraging. Complete with all that, the clean water from Colorado river, Lake Mead, and Goodsprings Source, and of course, the electricity provided by the Dam.
    Like stated above, only NCR's military presence and personnel that's kicked out of the mojave, but not civilians and workers like merchants, engineers, etc etc. As far as we can see, New Vegas only have entertainment industry, but like House said he would have hi-tech development sectors working once more in 20 years time. With the conflict resolved, I can see him achieving that, especially since he have the Courier to help him do the job.

    Yes, yes, and yes. Like I said, House didn't outright kicked the NCR and ban them as a whole. He still welcomes the NCR civilians and workers, only ban their military presence. If you managed to execute his plan in the optimal way, he doesn't have to worry about embargo and boycott since he have both Kimball and Oliver to take the blame.

    Security, okay. But higher standard of living? How? Nobody ever mentioned something like that. Not in the Mojave. People in the Goodsprings, Primm, and Novac certainly praise the security they provide but highly dislike their push of annexation. Hell, bringing law to Primm in the form of the NCR would actually raise the price of goods you can buy from Johnson Nash, since the NCR imposed heavy taxes on them. And should you let the NCR win the Dam, they would do the same to Goodsprings, to the point of some old-timers would leave because they're unable to handle the cost.


    IF there's a better offer. Who would be able to bring such a thing to the table?

    False. Swank and the rest of the Chairmen are actually content and satisfied with the way they're living now. However, they never know about Benny plotting against Mr. House, and when you convince Swank about it, he and everyone else at the Tops would lament the fact that they never saw him as a rat.

    Like I mentioned before, the head(s) of the WGS isn't only Mortimer, but also Marjorie. One wants to revert back to cannibalism, the other wants to stay clean. Either one have their own supporters among the members of the society, hence why when you expose Mortimer's scheme, only few members from the feast would resort to attack you, while the rest shown disgust at the possibility of nearly eating human flesh.

    I would, however, give you this one about the Three Families. There's not even a damn ending slide for any of them, not even a mention in existing ones! Hell, there's no ending slides for Freeside, too, with the exception the Kings and the Followers. I'd love to know how they fared in the end, since the quests involving any of the Families are some of the most exceptional side quest the world of video games has ever seen.

    Again, I know I've quoted the Order of Withdrawal above, but I really don't understand where this conclusion that House is severing ties completely with New California Republic. Only their military presence are banned, not outright severing ties with the nation as a whole.

    I am disappointed in Doomsdayprepper's responses, though.

    I'd love to know where is this 'rest of communities' established by the NCR existed in the game. Goodsprings, Primm, Nipton, Novac, Freeside and Outer (North, East, and West) Vegas, are the known settlements and communities existed before House's awakening. As far as I know, NCR-established communities only existed in form of military-purposed camps, and Mojave Outpost. Other than that, there's refugees camps and large farm landscapes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
  14. DarkLaplander

    DarkLaplander First time out of the vault

    Mar 4, 2017


    House definitely cares about if his employees are cannibals.
     
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  15. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    I mean, "It's a violation of there contract" is the most chilled way someone could respond to cannibalism tbh.

    Sure he cares, but he doesn't view it as disgusting or as treason, he just cares that they've been doing things against his laws.
     
  16. DarkLaplander

    DarkLaplander First time out of the vault

    Mar 4, 2017
    Well by his tone you can tell that he is disappointed. Just because he isn't overemotional about an issue he thought he had dealt in the past doesn't mean he doesn't think cannibalism is disgusting. House is a person who makes a deal and holds his end of the bargain, expecting you to do your side of the contract.
     
  17. YeeCop

    YeeCop Just a Sweet Irradiated Transvestite

    Jan 26, 2017
    What's great about Mr. House is that he's not embroiled in a conflict over the Hoover Dam like the NCR and the Legion. Mr. House is a neutral spectator; sure, he has diplomatic relations with the NCR and allows them to harness electricity from the Dam/patrol the Strip, but he offers no further support for the NCR's cause.

    You have to admire that House has been plotting to control the entirety of the Mojave Wasteland since the beginning. Whereas Caesar and Oliver have little plans for the future of Vegas, as they're more focused on the now, House has an intricate plan that went back as far as the 2050s.

    Between the poisonous bureaucracy of the NCR and the admirable but backwards tenets of the Legion, House offers something much more. He loves Vegas to the degree that he is willing to turn it into a glowing jewel in the Mojave Wasteland, for the betterment of humanity.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  18. Unorthodox Outlander

    Unorthodox Outlander First time out of the vault

    Aug 28, 2017
    One thing people keep bringing up when talking about the cons of Caesar's Legion being the uncertainty of their survival post-Caesar.

    I can't help but consider that same line of thinking to Mr. House's side of things... I mean, he's not fully computerized; the fact that he's still tied to a shriveled up husk of a human being hooked up to a machine that thus far is still running... I mean, sure. He's still alive, but for as much as his lifespan may be artificially extended, what happens when the machine fails or that sack of flesh finally reaches the point where it can go no further? Mr. House's ruthless efficiency, pragmatism, and planning are some of the things that gave him such a strong position of authority (besides, y'know... a small army of robotic soldiers). How well would the system hold up once somebody else has to take the reins (assuming that the No Gods, No Masters scenario isn't in effect)?
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  19. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    That's a good question. However, remember that Mr. House was looking for a protege, so basically someone to succeed him. Initially, he planned that someone to be Benny, but Benny fucked up big time.... until your character, the Courier, came into picture. So... there. The Courier who supported House WILL be his successor IF something bad is to happen to Mr. House.
     
  20. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    I don't think House was looking for someone to replace him as he literally intends to live forever. What he's looking for is the Howard Hughes version of a Sith apprentice.

    Weirdly, I think House is best likened to Emperor Palpatine with Benny and the Courier as their Darth Vader.

    House is helpless and a physically crippled old man but he has an immense army. An army which isn't enough to get the job done. He needs someone who speaks with his authority as well as does things weapons can't.

    Yes, the Courier could theoretically take his place (and does in proper Sith fashion with Yes Man) but House isn't planning for that.