Russian-Ukrainian war

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Tagaziel

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Euromaidan succeeded. But now it looks Crimea might become a flashpoint.

C/p from another forum by me:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/28/russia-crimea-white-house


Armed, uniformed men who seized transportation and government centers in Crimea? There are also reports of military cargo planes flying in and columns of armored vehicles moving in. If this is Russia's doing, it's an act of war against an independent, sovereign state. Which is bad.


http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/28/world/europe/ukraine-politics/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


More pictures.


140228070118-04-ukraine-0228-horizontal-gallery.jpg



That rifle is the AK-74, M variant used by Russian Armed Forces. The camouflage pattern is that of the Russian Ratnik next-generation combat gear. The body armor and webbing also appear to be Russian (see here and here for reference).


I'm scared.


Even more shots.


EDIT: There are about twenty of them. I've went through the photographs and there is a number of discrepancies. There are different types of combat webbing worn by the soldiers, ranging from plain beige, through black, to ones with U.S. Woodland camo. Different people wear different types of boots, something I wouldn't expect from an army with standardized equipment. One photograph shows a soldier without a rifle.


I'm puzzled. It's possible that they may be an advance Russian force or a Crimean militia using Russian equipment mixed with purchased gear.

Can anyone help? There are plenty of photographs in the Getty site, showing several men in detail.
 
On the wiki page they are refered to as "volunteers" or just "armed groups", and it does indeed seem like a situation that could call for Russian "military backup", if these volunteers, or "volunteers", came into hostile contact w Ukrainian troops.

Russia should know Ukraine ain't no Georgia tho, this seems like a very bold move, if they are ready for confrontation. It's not like this outcome has not struck minds before, Russia can be a pushy bastard.
 
Just wait untill Conan the Barbarian hears they've invaded. .

To be serious though, I would think most other countries would think that perhaps this is bad, but the usefulness of keeping the Russians on good terms would be better than a political intervention, so to say?
 
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I hope you guys get a steady government soon and Russian troops are just flexing their muscles, nothing more.
 
Akratus said:
Just wait untill Conan the Barbarian hears they've invaded. .

To be serious though, I would think most other countries would think that perhaps this is bad, but the usefulness of keeping the Russians on good terms would be better than a political intervention, so to say?
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yes, having the Russians as neighbours can teach you some nasty lessons. But the same is true for the US, I guess. Just ask the South Americans, they can tell you a lot of stories about it.

Beeing the backyard of a super power is always a bad situation. No matter what you do. I mean the Russians are not the US. But they still posses quite some military and not to mention a nuclear arsenal. That alone gives them some weight.
 
Does it really? I understand that if a poodle like North Korea gets one and starts wagging it people get nervous, but i find it hard to believe that any of the big boys would even consider deploying nukes if you're not at their capital's doorstep.
 
Yes, Russia is invading Crimeria. Those are regular Russian troops, not PMCs. The Western Ukraine (Kiev) also lost all contact with the outer world - Internet and telephone not working. Airports blockaded.

This is a pretty bold move that will see the collapse of the Russian Federation or at least a definite regime change (for the better or the worse, this is unknown).
 
Tricky situation indeed. Ukraine fought hard to gain independance and the loss of Crimea would be a blast. But in the same time Crimea was already an semi-autonomous area, culturally closer to Russia than the rest of ukraine. And the Russia, regardless if they send troops of not, have many way to pressure Ukraine.

Of course it easier to say as we are outside the area, but it seems that giving Crimea to Russia, or allow it to become independant is a better scenario than Russia and the previous president imposing their influence again in the whole Ukraine. (they don't need to invade it, just to support a puppet president, that will keep supporting them afterward)
 
naossano said:
(they don't need to invade it, just to support a puppet president, that will keep supporting them afterward)
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This is difficult without hostility, especially after Ukraine has so well established what direction they want to go, if we talk about democracy. The people and the armed forces want to move away from Russia. If Ukraine then had an election, where it just seemed like all of Ukraine wanted Russia back in the fold, the population would obviously get wise to the scam at work, and rebel against it.

In that sense, it is easyer for Russia, if they are that dedicated, to move troops in beforehand. To expect hostility.

Same as they cannot invade _only_ Crimea, imagine the waste of resource to fight, fight and fight inside Crimea, while the Crimean defense (Ukrainians) have the rest of the country to retreat into and regroup. Even with little Georgia, you could see how Russia would move way beyond their "claims", precisely to disrupt the Georgian military efficiency.
 
A fellow student at my university, a girl from Ukraine, said that the country is basically divided between the pro-West and pro-Russia groups. If that is true then Russia might not need that much to tip the scales in their favor.

Another friend has family there - Jewish relatives - and the Ukranians have been acting aggressive towards non-Ukranians, Jews, Tatars etc.
 
donperkan said:
Sub-Human said:
This is a pretty bold move that will see the collapse of the Russian Federation or at least a definite regime change (for the better or the worse, this is unknown).
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What makes you say that?
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Ukraine is not the enemy the Russians want to fight. Chechnya was a big hit for the poor nation, where well over 10 thousand troops died. Ukraine has a population of 50 million, a semi-professional military, but most importantly they're the 'slavic brothers' as Russian politicians referred to them just a few weeks back. The difficulty of going to war in the economic state that the RF is currently in aside, you can imagine the outrage of international mass media. Under these conditions, it'll take a miracle to save Russia from Ukranian-style protests and a regime change.
 
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