NMA's General Consensus Debates

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Reaper Shackal

Reaper Shackal

King of the Dominion
Recently, at least in the Future Fallout Games board, we've had a lot of arguments that revolve around the general consensus of Bethesda, Fallout 3, and Fallout 4 on No Mutants Allowed. To help prevent the derailment of threads I'm offering this thread as a place to discuss it, assuming this hasn't already been done. If a staff member would like to move these posts onto this thread, I'm open to it. I'll probably put links to the threads that include these posts.

http://www.nma-fallout.com/showthread.php?203398-Skills-in-Fallout-4-What-We-Know/page3
http://www.nma-fallout.com/showthread.php?203363-Bethesda-s-Fallout-4-Continuity-Breaker/page3

My personal opinion goes as following:
I like everything about Fallout: New Vegas. I do feel that if there wasn't a Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas wouldn't be exactly how it was, for better or worse. Since I started playing Fallout with New Vegas, I am personally glad of how it turned out. For that, I thank Bethesda and more so Obsidian. That said, I don't hate any of the Fallouts including 3. Fallout 2 is my second favorite in the franchise, 3 being the third. I couldn't get into Fallout 1 personally.

I think No Mutants Allowed is known for holding Fallout 3 to a lower opinion than the rest of the Internet. It has attracted trolls and people simply looking for a debate. I'm hoping this thread will allow people to get what they want to say out without derailing other threads.
 
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Um, I'm not sure there has been any "recent" arguments about the general consensus of these matters, at all. The general consensus HAS BEEN "Bethesda are bastards" and "FO3 is shit" and "We don't speak of FOBOS" for quite some time. In fact, it's been such a staple of the consensus that when new users come around and think they're offering new insight into a VERY settled topic, some users begrudgingly resurrect old topics to tell the new users "this has been beaten to death, it's not a new revelation", while other users fly into a tizzy over seeing people somehow not know that a discussion was had years before their arrival. FO4's merely another catalyst that will result in more of the same. We'll have some new users come round, and just like before, they'll think they have new ideas we haven't considered before, they'll think those of us who are none-too-thrilled about a new Bethesda Fallout game are just being close minded or that we "don't know" or such and such, and they'll do it all over again.

History always repeats itself, so none of this should come as any surprise.
 
SnapSlav said:
Um, I'm not sure there has been any "recent" arguments about the general consensus of these matters, at all. The general consensus HAS BEEN "Bethesda are bastards" and "FO3 is shit" and "We don't speak of FOBOS" for quite some time. In fact, it's been such a staple of the consensus that when new users come around and think they're offering new insight into a VERY settled topic, some users begrudgingly resurrect old topics to tell the new users "this has been beaten to death, it's not a new revelation", while other users fly into a tizzy over seeing people somehow not know that a discussion was had years before their arrival. FO4's merely another catalyst that will result in more of the same. We'll have some new users come round, and just like before, they'll think they have new ideas we haven't considered before, they'll think those of us who are none-too-thrilled about a new Bethesda Fallout game are just being close minded or that we "don't know" or such and such, and they'll do it all over again.

History always repeats itself, so none of this should come as any surprise.
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Most certainly. I'm just hoping this thread can help in it.
 
The thing is... it's just more dead horse beating. When in separate topics newer users repeat the same tired old sentiments without any awareness that they've been settled a long time ago (not entirely their fault, but not excusable, either) that's the appropriate space for those users to be addressed. If THEY, then, feel the compulsion to spread that into separate topics, that's their prerogative, and if it's too hostile, or inappropriate, or blatantly out-of-topic or against particular board rules, then those branching debates get pruned for the appropriate reasons. This very thread is such an instance. You may have had the best of intentions, but you overlooked that this topic was not really necessary, and how it was simply adding fuel to the flames. Meanwhile, letting the particular debates follow through will most certainly lead to their resolutions.

EVERY time new users come around and start up these things, there's usually one of several models that they follow. They're possibly trolls who are just looked to piss people off, and they tend to get banned and their threads vatted fairly swiftly. They're potentially unaware issues who were drawn to the site and just felt like adding their own two cents, and they find their place in the community fairly quickly. There are other models, for the sake of avoiding unnecessary numbers of examples, but the point being that what's bound to happen, happens.
 
SnapSlav said:
The thing is... it's just more dead horse beating. When in separate topics newer users repeat the same tired old sentiments without any awareness that they've been settled a long time ago (not entirely their fault, but not excusable, either) that's the appropriate space for those users to be addressed. If THEY, then, feel the compulsion to spread that into separate topics, that's their prerogative, and if it's too hostile, or inappropriate, or blatantly out-of-topic or against particular board rules, then those branching debates get pruned for the appropriate reasons. This very thread is such an instance. You may have had the best of intentions, but you overlooked that this topic was not really necessary, and how it was simply adding fuel to the flames. Meanwhile, letting the particular debates follow through will most certainly lead to their resolutions.

EVERY time new users come around and start up these things, there's usually one of several models that they follow. They're possibly trolls who are just looked to piss people off, and they tend to get banned and their threads vatted fairly swiftly. They're potentially unaware issues who were drawn to the site and just felt like adding their own two cents, and they find their place in the community fairly quickly. There are other models, for the sake of avoiding unnecessary numbers of examples, but the point being that what's bound to happen, happens.
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Ah. You got a point. Should I have this thread removed?
 
1. Not every new username is a new user, people lose account info all the time..
2. Beaten to death is a matter of prospective. Discussion is how every new generation flesh out its understanding.
3. Like in RL gaining understanding of some injustice means nothing. Some people understand and move on, others become disgruntled obnoxious assholes who tackle windmills.

I would like to think that fellow fans of the originals, aren't blind to the new reality Beth brought and can move on by either ignoring new Beth titles or 'try to relax and enjoy' (like the old joke goes) them for what they are.
 
The general problem is that some of these people think that mindlessly accepting things is the way to go, they only accept discussions on how much they agree with each other and react poorly when someone makes any other statement, they come here every so often and they do the same exact thing every time. Some of them stick around and start saying the same thing on every thread complainning about complainning and throwing a fit over people sharing their opinions while calling everyone else close minded. It's kind of funny. But it's one of the things one has to expect on a forum, specially on something like Fallout which has a very split fanbase.
 
A fallout 3 SJW? You know what you gotta do.



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We could all use a little dopamine fix, unfortunately some will only ever get that by dreaming about it.
 
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Reaper Shackal said:
I think No Mutants Allowed is known for holding Fallout 3 to a lower opinion than the rest of the Internet. It has attracted trolls and people simply looking for a debate. I'm hoping this thread will allow people to get what they want to say out without derailing other threads.
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Well, the whole internet is not made of Fallout 3, so I am not that surprised about that part. Everyone here can feel free to say what ever they want either about Fallout 3 or Bethesda - as company. You can love them and you can share your love. But you have to also accept the fact that some people will question that. It is easy to simply say, oh well NMA is just toxic. But that's far from the truth.
 
I don't really think that NMA is the place people hate Fo3 the most.
Unlike some websites, there will be a lower amount of people that would blame you for having a lower opinion about a product they love, or people that will only answer some thread by repeating the same sentence, over and over, no matter if it was already answered each page of the thread.
(althought, NMA isn't the only peacefull Fallout community.)
 
Walpknut said:
The general problem is that some of these people think that mindlessly accepting things is the way to go, they only accept discussions on how much they agree with each other and react poorly when someone makes any other statement, they come here every so often and they do the same exact thing every time. Some of them stick around and start saying the same thing on every thread complainning about complainning and throwing a fit over people sharing their opinions while calling everyone else close minded. It's kind of funny. But it's one of the things one has to expect on a forum, specially on something like Fallout which has a very split fanbase.
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You don't seem to get it. It isn't about opinions, it's about stating something is bad in an objective way while also doing it as obnoxiously as possible. Most people here state their opinions just fine, some do it in a way as to be as annoying and argumentative as possible. You butted into a discussion I had with someone else telling me my like of Fallout 3 was wrong and that I was stupid for liking it.

Learn to discuss things like a tactful adult and you won't have these problems. It's simple.
 
Oh you :oops:

I discuss things like a tactfull adult often (except that time I was trolling Megadeth fans because I was suuuuuper stressed), I just have very little patience when people start making no sense at all.
 
Liking what Bethesda peddles as Fallout doesn't necessarily mean you're stupid. You might simply be ignorant. The latter is curable provided you're willing and able to educate yourself. You can't really expect anyone to do that for you, however.
 
Talk to your child about Fallout 3.

Here are the signals you must identify if your child is using Fallout 3:
-They keep repeating: "Tunnel Snakes Rule!"
-An unusual affinity for the name 'Gary'.
-An addiction to music from the fifties.
-They ask you where their middle aged father is.

Winners don't do Bethesda.
 
@Battlecross, this was and is a thread about NMA itself, and was heretofore civil and impersonal. The behavior Walpknut describes is a legitimate problem we've seen repated ad nauseum throughout our history, and the fact that you so readily chose to see yourself in it and divert the thread to personal shenanigans probably bears some self-reflection.

No slapfighting here, please, anyone. This is a worthwhile discussion about the zeitgeist, and there's little justifiable reason for bringing specific personalities or incidents into it.

For my part, I've seen this place go through more permutations of opinion than there have been Fallout games. I think we've settled into a good place, where our rep as a chapped sphincter full of hornets tends to keep away the relentlessly uncritical, but the actual discussions taking place here are usually fairly live-and-let-live. I mean, we've even got a minor Fallout: Equestria vanguard.

I do wish the condecension could be dialed down a bit on all sides, but that's vocal minority syndrome.
 
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