A Strange History of Faith and Religion

[The Vault Dweller]

Sorry for making a separate topic and having a title that isn't too descriptive, but there's just too much to say.

Take your time reading and replying to this though I would appreciate input on this as a written story.

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Religion for me doesn't start with an person or place. It starts with reading. Not a holy book even, but periodicals. I grew up with a Father that loved to read on any intellectual subject and had many years of National Geographic, Time Magazine, around the house kept in good condition with new issues coming out monthly. This is in addition to the daily news. Since I was curious I read instead of spent time playing with others (though I was also shy, but I don't know which came first). My parents encouraged this as they were work-a-holics who also liked to spend free time on self-improvement. While they never forbade me from being sociable they never promoted it either.

Since my numerous sources of current events (and those in the past from National Geographic and Time Magazine) I became very aware of every subject (history, science, culture, etc) both past and present and especially surprising seeing how things changed both unexpected and purposely caused leading to modern times. I particularly noted religious movements. How any one faith would change its preaching to fit the time (sometimes in support of modern ideals, but usually against) and how heavily they influenced every aspect of life. I found it strange how Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all spawned from the same beginning with new prophets adding books to the first.

Now my Mom would occasionally attend church, but never seemed to involve her self in any particular way other than making small donations. My Dad was deeply respectful of faith, but wouldn't attend a church. I figured by inheritance I was vaguely Christian, but felt if I hadn't read the Bible it didn't count. Also I wasn't going to involve myself in any faith unless my parents approved. So decided to ask my Dad exactly where I should stand.

I didn't realize it at the time, but this ended up being one of the most pivotal moments in my life.

It's the beginning of when everything became strange.

Can you do me a favor? Ask me when you're older. Also in the meantime...I want you to pay attention to what anyone says to with regards to God, but don't agree to anything. I could tell you more, but you have to have particular knowledge to understand first that comes with age.

In the meantime I just told people I was Catholic.

Also in the casual aspects of my day-to-day life interesting things would happen I would make a note of. This was easy as I lived in a small part of the huge city of Los Angeles and in a neighborhood with no particular racial background. It was very diverse and I met almost all types of people you could think of.

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There was a significant population of Mormons in my area. I noted how they often and very openly would talk to anyone about their faith. Although almost everyone found this obnoxious I would tolerate it...that is, I would, had anyone spoken to me. Once in a while I would pass by the door-to-door missionaries as I would walk (I walked everywhere when possible) and I'd ask them why they weren't so interested. I never got a straight answer and while they were annoyingly polite to everyone they'd act with a barely suppressed fear of me that I thought was my imagination.

Later I would find that:

“because of their iniquity. …the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them” (2 Nephi 5:21)

I do not mean to show preference to any particular faith be it positive or negative and accusing them of racism is pretty damning. However it should be noted that beside this line no black person could aspire to be a church official for most of Mormon history. The reason why they can now is, because the organization officially renounced the belief that "dark skin is a curse from god" in 2013. Of course as good as it is that belief be done away with I would suspect any believers would have trouble reconciling the words that it came from with their own personal beliefs (it also did cause a lot of friction in the church).

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You are aware that Catholicism is secretly pagan right?

Me: ...

How do you think it sprung up on it's own in Ireland when they were completely disconnected from Italy where it began? They were pagans who adopted some Christian ideas, but kept lots of pagan traditions. It's NOT what God wants.

Me: Actually when the Roman Christians first founded the Catholic institution they send missionaries far in every direction. Most of them only found converts in places close by where they were trusted, but somehow those they sent to Ireland found root immediately. However that branch of the faith was separated by thousands of miles and an ocean not to mention language barriers so the organization operated separately for a very long time and to some extent formed its own traditions that NEED to be honored as they've done for so long on their own.

You should hear from a Preacher not a Priest.

I attended multiple youth functions sponsored by his faith that consisted of a "teacher" and Bible readings. At all times he was very adamant that all words in it be considered factually true and not interpreted in any way.

I remember once one attendee being asked what "breath of fire" meant (in reference to something from the Book of Revelation involving demons). The attendee said "I guess it means they had really hot breath." which the teacher responded to by saying "Their breath was fire. To say anything otherwise is to not believe the words of the Lord." Similar things happened quite often.

Remarkably things changed later...

My friend and his brother were incredibly close and both held the same beliefs to the same degree. Then when the brother became college age something changed suddenly. He openly denounced the use of religion as a means to control people and that if there is a loving God he'd want them to better themselves and those around them without any need for dogma. In fact he said there is a way to do that. Science advances mankind and bears no grudge.

In spite of showing no particular interest in the field he entered college as a science student. Not many years later he graduated near the top of his class with a degree in Botany and immediately landed a well-paying job not to mention one that would help validate his views.

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Your Aunt has left us. She has multiple children she did well in raising and who love her and they aren't even quite sure what happened. Supposedly she couldn't take life anymore even though she never complained and joined some religious group that has a temple around here with a bunch of people who follow someone they call "The Master".

It was some religious group with a leader who (stereotypically) wore a turban and had a long beard. Although that brings to mind for most people the ethnic group "Arabs" those are also the standard for various spiritually-enlightened gurus or yogis. It should be noted that such people can belong to various sects of Buddhism or Hinduism, but many are also keen on making new practices and being all-encompassing with their beliefs. I tried looking up more information, but I can't find anything through the internet specific to "The Master" which is probably a generic name that any leader could use.

She did re-establish contact with the family many years later. She was doing fine and wanted to know if they were worried about her. As if the whole thing was casually forgettable. Though everyone expressed lots of concern she refused to leave, but she still maintains family ties even if strained and distant.

I even spoke to her once about it. She didn't seem concerned that everyone (including her children) were severely worried about her for so long since "they didn't understand how much better she is now". If asked she was quick to recommend her new spiritualism and even hand out pamphlets (which amazingly she always had on hand). Reading them I found them vaguely spiritual without giving any specific information as to what exactly was believed except that you should visit them for more information.

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Your Uncle along with your Aunt and their children are Jehova's Witnesses now. They aren't having any involvement with us and we're worried. They said that one day a representative showed up at their doorstep and "They knew it was meant to happen".

Jehova's Witnesses follow are particularly strict Biblical interpretation. The in fact call their faith simply "The Truth". Not only do they find sinful things sinful, but anything that isn't holy is also "sinful". Supposedly they have to eliminate any influence of anything that isn't going to advance themselves spiritually including television, books other than the Bible, games, etc. They have some interesting interpretations that distance themselves from other Christians such as believing there was no cross during Jesus's crucifixion just a single wooden pole. Also that there is no "Hell" as most faiths describe rather that sinners upon death simply "cease to exist" whereas the faithful are resurrected. They also believe that only 144,000 "anointed" are actually able to reach Heaven and the rest are simply resurrected after the apocalypse to live in a perfect world...though not in Heaven surprisingly. Since 144,000 is such a small number in relation to humanity they have to do their utmost to be one of those chosen few.

So though they weren't having to do with anyone personally my Dad drove with me to their physical residence. My Dad engaged in a long conversation with my Aunt and Uncle the details of which I don't know, but certainly involved him curiously asking details and possibly trying to convince them otherwise. Even though I wasn't privy to that conversation my time spent with their two children was enlightening enough.

The house was compared to what I had seen before removed of toys, television, and most books. The two cousins whom I had spent hours with at many previous family gatherings during holidays were not their usual energetic, joyous selves (remember IRC I was roughly ten years old and they weren't much younger). All I could do was ask why and they'd say they can't do anything sinful. I then asked what could we talk about (since they hadn't at least stopped talking) and they said that anyone outside the faith could only teach them to sin. Keep in mind I was roughly ten years old at this time. I could never even consider things like sex, drugs, or violence and yet here I was assumed to represent those things. At the moment I found it very strange, but now I see how sad it was.

I spent a few hours waiting for my Dad to be done while reading some Calvin and Hobbes books. Surprising they didn't get rid of them since the characters active imagination (or actions) clearly weren't holy. Currently I look back on it and find the situation quite sad since those books are a celebration of childhood if there ever was one.

My Dad never did tell me what they talked about or if he tried to sway them in any way and I regret forever I didn't ask him (though I always consider conversations private and respectfully don't ask). The family did eventually re-establish contact with everyone else though at gatherings they were always distant.

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At some point I made friends with a wonderfully kind person. One day we had a conversation.

Me: I don't like asking about a persons religious beliefs, but you seem to have them well practiced in a way I think is right.

Friend: Oh really? How so?

Me: (I explain to him some of the things that have occurred so far).

Friend: Well here's the thing. I am the way I am, because I'm a Friend (note the capitalization).

Me: Yes you're my friend, but...could you explain your faith?

Friend: If I did that it would be preaching and that could get in the way of your personal influence directly given to you by God.

Me: I like that, but...how would you explain it?

Friend: I have an idea. I can show you where my beliefs come from without interfering with yours. It's an interesting story. Do you like history?

Me: Absolutely.

Friend: Well it's a story about the founding of the country, but not a religion. Look up "The Quakers".

In Europe during the 1600's it was a time of turmoil. Various Kings would side with Protestantism or Catholicism and upon being defeated or conquering a region force that religion on it's inhabitants. There were always people more faithful to God than any government and they'd be slaughtered. At one point a vaguely Christian religious movement started that began to preach that faith came to men directly from God and needed no human intervention (such as from an organization) or physical (such as a symbol or structure). This made a lot of leaders angry since it put their power over people in jeopardy and what came to be know as "The Quakers" were heavily persecuted. However, because they wouldn't resort to violently overthrowing any government (just living separately) it was hard to justify this. So in the late 1600's when the colonization of North America was in full swing Quakers (mainly English and Dutch) left for the New World as much to escape persecution as by order of their Kings who wanted to get rid of them without openly imprisoning them (expensive) or killing them (bad publicity).

At the time the coastal areas were somewhat settled, but the interior was still open frontier and so to be left alone the Quakers mostly settled in the colony of Pennsylvania which was considered far inland. They were quick to preach religious tolerance and freedom not only to grant what they had to others out of good will, but also, because their belief in God was too personal to allow them to exclude anyone else by right of them simply being human. In fact they openly supported race and gender equality allowing women to speak publicly and slaves to not be owned (though this differed by the individual). Quickly the population of Pennsylvania grew due to many colonists trying to escape persecution and liking what they heard about the Quakers. By the mid 1700's the colony had a sizable proportion of small Christian sects, Jews, and even Native Americans who still practiced there indigenous faith.

In fact the Quakers found themselves outnumbered. Fearing both the loss of their rights (as a minority) and also the loss of all their progress they decided they might want to make laws though to allow freedom for all and not special rights for themselves otherwise they'd be as guilty as any of the faiths they fled from.

BECAUSE no People can be truly happy, though under the greatest Enjoyment of Civil Liberties, if abridged of the Freedom of their Consciences, as to their Religious Profession and Worship: And Almighty God being the only Lord of Conscience, Father of Lights and Spirits; and the Author as well as Object of all divine Knowledge, Faith and Worship, who only doth enlighten the Minds, and persuade and convince the Understandings of People, I do hereby grant and declare, That no Person or Persons, inhabiting in this Province or Territories, who shall confess and acknowledge One almighty God, the Creator, Upholder and Ruler of the World; and profess him or themselves obliged to live quietly under the Civil Government, shall be in any Case molested or prejudiced, in his or their Person or Estate, because of his or their conscientious Persuasion or Practice, nor be compelled to frequent or maintain any religious Worship, Place or Ministry, contrary to his or their Mind, or to do or super any other Act or Thing, contrary to their religious Persuasion.

Later they decided to simplify it:

I. That all men are born equally free and independent, and have certain natural, inherent and inalienable rights, amongst which are, the enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.

II. That all men have a natural and unalienable right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences and understanding: And that no man ought or of right can be compelled to attend any religious worship, or erect or support any place of worship, or maintain any ministry, contrary to, or against, his own free will and consent: Nor can any man, who acknowledges the being of a God, be justly deprived or abridged of any civil right as a citizen, on account of his religious sentiments or peculiar mode of religious worship: And that no authority can or ought to be vested in, or assumed by any power whatever, that shall in any case interfere with, or in any manner controul, the right of conscience in the free exercise of religious worship.

Later when lots of people spent lots of time arguing over how the Constitution of the United States of America would be written Pennsylvania was held up as an example of the success of tolerance and freedom. In fact the way the the two statements above are written are quite close to parts of the actual United States Constitution as it's written.

I'd like to point out that though this is proof of not only religious thinking during the admittance of "human rights" and that the Quakers themselves draw their teachings from the Bible (Christian) there belief that God is to be personally discovered mean they can't hold themselves (or their faith) above any others. Meaning they don't believe they are superior to any other American in spite of them having such a huge influence in founding the nation.

In fact they don't like the term "Quaker" or any sort of "special" term to describe themselves. If they have to they call themselves a part of the "Religious Society of Friends" and introduce themselves when helping others as simply being "a Friend".

Since the Quakers don't build structures (like Churches), practice their religion through "good will towards their fellow man" (without any elaborate ceremonies), and that they refuse to create or wear any symbol (like a Cross) there's no way of telling how many or who is a follower. Since they were around since before the beginning of the USA I'd assume they'd have a high population, but since they are so respectful of other faiths I would suspect they'd more often than not be converted away from their faith. Of course I would imagine they'd only do so if they really felt strongly about "God being personal" and most likely raise their children to believe the same and not actually the doctrines of whatever they would "convert" to.

I would like to take the time to say (to you the reader) if you're a devotee of the Religious Society of Friends I consider your existence to be no less than the survival of the ideas first inspired so long ago and put into words before the country I live in was even created. I hope you continue to live secretly if you even exist.

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Your Dad was always so religious. We even sent him to college at Catholic university. He did so well a lot of us thought he should have become a priest. Then some time ago he stopped attending services and wouldn't say why.

So after a long time I finally came to my Dad and brought up the topic of religion. I told him I was ready to tell him a lot of interesting incidents. He listened very intently though clearly had quite a lot of emotions being held back by what I said. I'd like to point out my Dad was known by everyone (including me) for being stoic to the point of coming across as being cold and uncaring to a lot of people that didn't know him well. It was a surprise seeing him care about something so much.

I told him everything except the part about the Quakers and my Friend since it (to me) was more about history than religion.

After I was done he left for a few hours. He said he had to think for a while.

When he came back he told me about why he wouldn't attend Church.

I was very heavily an adherent of the faith for most of my life. When the seventies came around there was that controversy with the many people who came forward to legally charge the Church with concealing various child molestation charges. The Church ignored them. I heard a lot of rumors back then...I'm sure they can't all be wrong.

I can't say more.

I will say though that as far as the other faiths are concerned I'm not surprised they act that way to you.

My Dad was visibly angry and I repeat to you again reader that he almost never showed emotions. He barely said anything then and never brought it up.

I'd like to point out I'm certain my Dad just felt the Church authorities were abusive of power and/or he trusted people who told him about possible abuses. You could assume that maybe he was a victim, but the chances of that are very low and assuming something that is itself a terrible crime and would be very wrong.

I'd like to point out that my personal idea of being respect wherein I don't ask about topics, but let them be brought up to me by choice has prevented me from gaining a lot of clarification that would have (in this and many future cases) helped a lot.

I then realized I could tell him about the Quakers and their influence in the founding of the USA. He ate up the story wide-eyed and told me it was wonderful. He said it always bothered him that humanity couldn't exist without religion to guide it, but at the same time faith so often held back people from helping themselves.

My Dad never did say that he held a grudge against anyone or tried to convince me to I should add based on what happened with him.

Much later my Dad would admit to me that he continued to study religion though mainly out of curiosity. He said he felt the Buddhist teaches were a fair comparison to Christian faith yet offered personal introspection which he felt was needed.

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My Dad died of cancer unexpectedly young (in his fifties). My Mom remarried then died in a car accident caused by debris in the road (in her forties).

I was with my Step-Dad who accepted my Mother as Catholic, but couldn't care less about any religion. Then we moved from Southern California in the city to Northeast Pennsylvania in a small rural town.

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Now this SHOULD be the end of the story. I had learned a lot from study of the written word and personal interactions, formed an ideal, and put it into practice.

What that religion was I have no idea. I was more concerned with not offending human (and American) history by supporting people who didn't like the written truth. I'd say the Quakers had the most influence on my faith, but therein was another problem.

I had never read the Bible. I resolved to someday though since the book is over 1,000 pages and that's very large pages with very small text including footnotes that help describe historic circumstances to explain a lot of the archaic terminology.

Since I had just finished high school and was going to work/college I wouldn't be meeting anywhere near as many "unreasonable" people so I figured it didn't matter.

Boy was I wrong.

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So since I wasn't attending church services (since my Step-Dad didn't care) I used the hour I gained on Sundays to read the Bible. I don't know exactly when I started or when I finished, but I estimate it took about three years. I wasn't even done when just reading a book became an issue.

Him: What book is that?

Me: The Bible.

Him: WHAT?!

Me: What's wrong?

Him: Isn't that the book that tells people to molest children and do all sorts of other bad things?

Me: ...

Him: Don't you know about all the bad things Catholics have done through the history? All, because of that book.

Me: I'm not exactly Catholic in fact the book is meant to be read regardless of denomination...

Him: GET RID OF IT.

Me: Why?!

After a very long and varied discussion it goes like this.

My Step-Dad's Mother died soon after he was born. His Father didn't care for religion at all, but they considered themselves Protestant and passed along the ages old hatred for the Catholics that goes back almost 500 years to the schism that led to the Protestants challenging the Catholics over issues of faith. My Step-Dad never attended Church, read the Bible, or even knew the basic beliefs, but knew who he hated even if he didn't know much about why.

Had I completed reading the Bible at that point I would also have quoted for him the passage that the Catholics base celibacy in defense of their priests for having to commit to such a difficult life style. This comes up later.

I explained to him everything that had occurred in the past with me and the people I knew in reference to the Church. Also how anything I learn from reading the Bible would be taken only in a realistic context and I wasn't going to end up leaving (we shared the expenses so he wanted me to stay around since he was unemployed after moving) or hating anyone.

He accepted it grudgingly.

Lucky for him since I ended up saving his a**.

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Some months to a year later...

Him: I need to talk to you about something.

Me: ...

Him: I got a phone call today from a Jehovah's Witness.

Me: !!!

Him: He said that God had told him to call me...specifically me, because I was ready to hear him. I broke down and cried. I don't know why, but he was right. So I gave him my address and he came and told me everything I have to do. He said when I was ready I should go to their Hall (where the JW meet).

Now my Step-Dad had been unemployed for quite some time since we moved. While the house we used to live in was much more expensive (due to being located in a city) than the one we had at the time (in a rural area) selling it left him a lot of money so he wasn't going bankrupt, but it still worried him. Spending most of everyday just watching TV (something I didn't complain about, but felt was bad) I'm sure made him restless.

Clearly the person who called him just called number by number until finding someone who'd give in to what was being preached and take advantage of their weakness in faith...

Yet if my Step-Dad really didn't want to become a Jehovah's Witness he really should have his own faith, but how could he be played for that when no one taught him it? I guess he could also have aired his grievances about what he thought of the Jehovah's Witnesses, but since many modern Americans tend to treat faith as purely private he knows nothing about them.

Then I realized I could represent their beliefs as a neutral and fair person whose only interest was to tell the factual truth as told by history.

I was prepared to tell him about the part of my Fathers family who converted when my Step-Dad said something horrific.

Him: I was told you'd have something to say and I know better than to believe any of it. I won't listen to you.

It's bad enough to take another persons advice for something so drastic, but to disregard me when I'd always be as amiable as possible to everyone.

I figured I'd tell the truth whether it was listened to or not. I told him about the part of my family that became Jehovah's Witnesses. He sat in mocking silence the whole time. Then halfway through...

Him: Wait they don't watch TV?

Me: Well for them the physical world is sinful and they're supposed to use as much of their personal resources as possible to spread the word.

Him: F*** that.

Me: ...

Alternatively:

Me: They don't let people watch TV.

Him:

Me:

Now I have to admit he most likely would have changed his mind once attending a meeting and finding out all the details for himself, but I have no doubt in my mind he'd be pressured into it which would make it an unfortunate event to have to disappoint them all. Besides if he were going to let just that one thing get in the way of choosing a faith or even not trying to find out if it was true himself (though he could trust me I think all people should do their own research) he wasn't going to take their beliefs seriously.

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I completed reading the Bible at some point while in college. The book is impossible to describe without first taking a stance on how to interpret it and that raises a series of issues.

One is that the word of God is perfect and taken as-is. Problem is to many passages conflict with one another is very obvious ways.

But anything in the seas or the rivers that has not fins and scales, of the swarming creatures in the waters and of the living creatures that are in the waters, is detestable to you. You shall regard them as detestable; you shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall detest their carcasses. Everything in the waters that has not fins and scales is detestable to you.

So no shellfish? When New England was established before the USA most communities were coastal and subsisted heavily on lobster and clams. Keep in mind these people would burn "accused" witches so they were fanatically Christian...yet they ate what they had to, because that's what was there...

I guess you could point out that this is an Old Testament passage and hence doesn't apply to Christians since when Jesus came he set entirely new rules in the New Testament, but then...

Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. With that, one of Jesus’ companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear. “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

Now I know Jesus was all for non-violence and God can't stand the wickedness of war, but should someone attempt to harm someone you can't even act in self-defense? In fact the logical conclusion to this lesson is to not even own a weapon. I couldn't practice any religion faithfully if I hadn't chosen it and the freedom that was obtained with involved a war (The Revolutionary War at the very least). I couldn't possibly put that into practice.

Of course maybe God is so severe he doesn't care about the physical circumstances only the spiritual reasoning. I could understand that (God being perfect and all), but if he's going to condemn countless people whom history (which I need to study faith) is founded on...well either he makes an exception or he's so unreasonable I doubt anyone is good enough for him.

Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

There are many others passages describing celibacy or marriage, but this is the best summary. Basically if you can maintain the self-control try to live without sex, but if you're going to be overwhelmed and do something terrible (like rape) then just agree you'll only take one person (in marriage).

Now granted I wasn't going try to maintain my virginity as that seems too harsh, but I have to admit if I were going to be married it would require a lot of other circumstances to work out. THIS BECAME A HUGE ISSUE LATER ON.

Speaking of celibacy...

The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please her husband.

This is one of multiple passages that Catholics use to justify the celibacy rule for priests. Under the circumstances it makes sense. I'd like to point out that I've heard many Protestants (such as my Step-Dad during his anti-Catholic rant) believe there are no Biblical passages that justify requiring celibacy. Well there it is right there. Now whether it justifies that some have trouble with self-control (sex scandals) is up to debate. I'd like to think since it's "holier" to take such a vow that if you do and keep it it's better than not, but since it's so difficult it might not be a good thing to require.

I'd also like to point out I say that in defense of Catholics since with people criticizing them for the "celibacy vow" claiming there's no justification when there is that they're in the right (as far as the ones who succeed in it do). I'd also like to point out that if you try to quote the passages to a Protestant in truth they'll just ignore it which isn't right (it's happened to me a few times).

As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’”

“Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.”

Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!”

The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?”

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”

Then Peter spoke up, “We have left everything to follow you!”

“Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”

Now I understand that the fortunate are supposed to help the less fortunate as is good will, but to give ALL you have is blatant socialism (this is not an endorsement of capitalism by the way). I mean if everyone did that there would be no incentive to work and no progress economically. The USA couldn't have been settles if it wasn't for people wanting to own land and work for their own betterment. In fact it states above "left... fields for me" which is to say "leave work" since almost everyone was a farmer back then. How would humanity even survive to practice faith without even the food?

I can get by without that idea by simply thinking it's too extreme, but I wish it wasn't there.

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Ultimately all I can say is that I see why the Bible is the holy book of one of the worlds largest and oldest religions, but I don't feel "right" in how it's meant to be interpreted. Directly as truth is too extreme and ends up contradicting itself, but trying to skip specific rules that aren't convenient isn't honest.

I'd like to think that when Jesus established the two new commandments that completely encompassed the old ones without allowing room to take advantage of the wording (by being vague in "love thy neighbor, God, etc") meant that the "spirit" of the words is what's meant and not the literal meaning (in fact it gets brought up multiple times).

But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Of course I won't know for sure until I meet God in person and then it's too late.

Meanwhile I just have to get along with my fellow Americans and hope that's good enough.

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End of story right?

Now that I'd read the source material (that most people draw their beliefs from) I could disagree without pause (which not speaking caused me to appear ripe to be spoken to) and even defend myself with direct quotations if necessary (which let me tell you just makes whoever your speaking to walk away in shocked surprise).

Nope there's a lot more to religion than that. Mainly, because it seems no one really reads the Bible (judging by the people I've met) and that's not to mention the other faiths.

---

So I get a job as a grocery store cashier part-time while I also attend college. Due to living in a rural, but quickly expanding area due to being near one of the largest metropolitan areas of the USA I have and continue to meet people of every single race, culture, and faith you can imagine both native and foreign including recent immigrants both from within and without the country. Due to my secretive nature (I admit I was starting to become a bit paranoid with regards to talking about religion at this point) and my unique "no particular race" appearance people often accidentally considered me a friend or enemy for the silliest reasons. It did make the job unexpectedly educational.

As far as faith is concerned...

---

One day a person is in my line with a tiny wooden cross. Before she's done another person enters the line who has a large metal cross. Immediately after another man enters and his has a large bust of Jesus made out of what appears to be solid gold that's so large it covers 1/8 his chest. He puffs up his chest while staring at the man in front of him (who has a metal cross) who then looks away in what might have been shame. The woman looks on with some sort of embarrassment and walks away. When I finish the customer with the metal cross the man with the gold Jesus bust declares "You don't even have any symbols of faith do you?". I was wearing a tiny wooden cross at the time which was a very recent gift from a family member. Now I never felt the need for jewelry, but wore it out of obligation to the person who gave it to me. I said nothing in response and when he was gone I took it off and never have or will wear that or any symbol again. I'm aware there's a law against idolatry in the Bible where the creation of an object of faith is a form of worshiping "the physical world" and not the "spiritual one". Now I like to think any object made as a piece of art for a persons faith is like an act of piety or prayer (which is actually a Buddhist belief good for them), but that belief isn't shared.

I'm not going to use a symbol as means to show off wealth either.

---

Him: (whispered) I should save the world the trouble and kill your Arab ass.

Me: That's a new one. Most people accuse me of being one of the natives of this country (Native American). I've met plenty of Arabs in this work and I don't look like them at all.

Him: It doesn't matter you're still ghoyim!

Ghoyim is a Jewish term which depending on the translation means either non-believer (which is mild) or "a soulless beast that appears in the form of a human, but shouldn't be treated as human and should be used as seen fit". Unfortunately the Bible I read took the negative interpretation (though I certainly wouldn't believe that myself).

Now I know the Jewish people were nearly exterminated (in Biblical times), forced to settle dispersed in small communities throughout the world (keeping them an abused minority wherever they lived), then nearly exterminated again (in World War 2), and the one place and time they can finally be safe (in Israel) they are constantly worried about the surrounding Muslim countries antagonizing them. I would imagine most people raised Jewish would adopt a "siege mentality" and for this I can't blame them. Nor do I.

Again I should really allow myself to speak out (still following the rule "don't speak until spoken too" out of common respect). It would have been interesting to remind him I don't hold a grudge for past grievances against white people (assuming I'm native) and see what he says.

---

It's unknown to almost anyone, but anyone with Asian ancestry who manages to grow sideburns (remember I'm arguably 1/4 Asian) often has them curl even though the rest of their hair both facial and not doesn't. It's unkown, because most Asians can't grow sideburns and it would look silly if they did.

At one point I hadn't shaved for months and had significant, curled sideburns.

I think it's common knowledge that Rabbis (Jewish priests) don't shave or cut their hair and tend to get curled sideburns.

Guess what happens? Multiple Muslims angry that I'm Jewish. None of them used any particularly "culturally significant" statements just that they didn't want me around.

I realize they're mad, because many of them believe the Holy Land (where most Biblical events took place) belong to them and currently their in Isreali territory. You'd think though that since they left their countries to live better here in the USA that they'd leave that behind for their own sake.

Of course when everyone holds the same age old grudges...

---

I was also going to college during all this time and that's a great place to meet people of all minds and exchange ideas:

Her: You seem to live by the silver rule "Don't treat others how you would not want yourself treated".

Me: Well yes, but I'm not Buddhist. I appreciate what you said though.

Her: Oh! Well can you do me a favor then?

Me: Yes?

Her: Don't tell anyone I said that.

Me: ?

That was strange. Well she was a very shy person and having a minority religion is something people aren't comfortable discussing so I'm not surprised. It's not like she was expecting anyone to persecute her.

Him: I don't admit to my faith in public.

Me: Why not?

Him: I grew up in a very rural area where everyone was Christian. I was lucky on the days at school people would verbally harass me. I even got beat up more than a few times as an "enemy of the country".

Me:

There was a lot more he had to say, but it was quite shocking. Of course any region with a completely homogenous background (religious or otherwise) will have problems like that. I will admit this friend had incredible spiritual endurance to put up with that. Of course I didn't know if all Buddhists were that devoted.

One day an older male who was close friends with my uncle and lesser friends with everyone else in my family invited me to his home just to discuss things.

Him: So I called you here, because I know multiple family members who are good friends and they all speak so highly of you as a...spiritual person.

Me: I suppose so. I don't think much about it.

Him: Can I talk to you about some controversial subjects?

Me: Sure.

He was a retired Marine that fought in Vietnam and had gained more than a few medals. Though he understood that it was "kill-or-be-killed" and in fact was quite good at his job he grew sick of what he had to do. After the war was over and he came back he was bothered by how people would react to him with religion either claiming that what he did was totally wrong (when he was just trying to survive) or completely right (yet he only fought, because there had to be a war). So much so that he took strongly disliking Christianity.

He asked for my opinion on the matter. When I told him that none of those people understood what was really going on and also explained to him my religious background he was very surprised and deeply impressed. He asked if I was open to other faiths and I said I was.

He revealed to me that he was a Buddhist. He never said how it related to the fact that the faith was so common in Asia (where he fought). He told how it meant he could reconcile everything that happened and live with it and (with what I knew about the faith) I told him I understood.

He asked if I had ever had an epiphany (the concept of which exists in all faiths). I told him I felt quite close to it (as it's described) at various points in my life, but never anything that felt like I was directly touched by a divine force.

He said that based on how I acted I was certainly going to have one at some point and the difference between whether I'd be "enlightened" or not would be whether I allowed myself for it to happen.

Him: If you ever feel like something spiritual is going on deeply and without any realistic explanation...give in to it. I believe you're not far from realizing a great spiritual potential and that you've come a long way to get there.

Me: I'll be aware of it.

I didn't convert although I wasn't asked to really. I was honest when I said I'd "keep it all in mind" though nothing has happened so far. I have no idea if that means I'm not following the right path, not meant to reach it, or that it doesn't exist. Thing is I certainly couldn't as long as I'm so skeptical, but I wouldn't have gotten to this point and "spiritually survived" had I not been so cautious.

I really can't claim I know what to say on this subject.

---

So all through this I'm attending college for a degree in Biology due to having excelled in science and math throughout school.

You're probably wondering why someone with so much religious "education" is studying not only science, but the study of life itself wherein evolution is so central to understanding studies would be broken without it. Here's the thing: it didn't need to be a conflict for me.

Since science is the study of the physical world and faith is based on the existence of a "spiritual world" that's separate from reality I never felt they had to be opposed in the same way an electrician and a plumber need to know each others jobs when work on separate parts of the same house. Of course faith needs religion which needs ancient texts and creation myths which give the world a fantastic origin. However as with many other things I'd read (from the previous part in this story where I referred to Biblical specifics) I could never take every part of it as perfect fact unless as a rule I took the whole thing and (as stated many times) that would only create more problems than solutions.

Besides some of the best examples of charity in any faith involve "healing the sick". Now what tool in modern times has led to more healing than medicine? It couldn't exist without scientific study of the human body (which during most of human history it was sacrilege to study due to needing to open a corpse for anatomy), the chemistry of many biological substances (for finding useful processes), and genetics for understanding inheritance of traits (which is the best example of how evolution works in practice).

I've had more than a few people (who assume I'm deeply religious) react horrified when I tell them I studied Biology in college. They would all ask how I survived the supposedly brutal indoctrination of being taught "there was no God" which supposedly my educators would try to discern anyone faithful for stern lectures.

Those people are dead wrong.

My professors almost never brought up issues of faith except by request of students and they'd never insist on anything. My genetics Professor was a Catholic who told us that (as per most Catholic school teaching) that the world "begins with the soul", but can and should be still studied on it's own. My Professor of Mammology was well-versed in the Bible, but refused to let faith interfere with the progress of science since it yielded so much "that people have prayed for in the past". The Professor of Invertebrates was a Hindu convert...whose white (European). That's a religion which although one of the oldest and largest in the world unlike most is almost entirely confined to the country of India and it's surroundings. How/why she decided that I never asked (again an example of my respect preventing me from learning about something that could have been potentially important).

All of those people and many others willing to better humanity by making what we don't know known so it can be used for good ends without any attempt at creating unnecessary conflict and completely respectful of opposing ideas (at least by leaving them alone). I can barely think of a better example of faith (though in humanity and not so much spirituality) than them other than the some of the most saintly of religious leaders. Yet there are no adoring throngs or cheering crowds for scientists and that only makes them humble.

Isn't humility a sacred virtue?

---

Now during holidays I like to donate a small portion of money to a related cause such as feeding the hungry if it's Thanksgiving or veterans organizations around Memorial Day. Usually it's the small bonus in pay I get for working on/around the holidays that I give since it's "extra" money. For Christmas however I like to give an amount equal to how much I would have spent that month on "fun things" for myself since I would like to consider that holiday bearing more meaning to me than others.

Normally I would give the money to some random charity taking donations at the door to a store, but this one time it was Christmas Eve and I had just gotten off work when I remembered I had forgotten to donate in the weeks prior to Christmas. I knew that after the holiday I'd have no way to remind myself to donate and I'm very forgetful. Then I remembered that most Churches are open on Christmas Eve for an evening service and I actually have a Catholic Church directly on my way to/from work. Of course I'm not a regular attender of Church services (and family history with that organization is shaky), BUT I refuse to be judgmental and in fact attending Church as a child it always seemed (at least at the Catholic Church I went to) that there were lots of people from all sorts of backgrounds (racial, ethnic, etc.) and I've always thought it should be that way. Besides there should be a donation box in the entrance area. I could just step in, donate, and leave.

Big mistake.

So I enter just a few minutes prior to service starting and there's no place to donate. I decide to leave then I notice the doors are closed and people are gathering to seat themselves. I realize I can donate during the service as "the plate is passed around" as per Catholic tradition, but I'd have to take part in the service. Well I did it often so long ago and I still think well of their beliefs so why not?

I sat near the back and went through with everything prayer, song, and such. I noticed people often sneaked glances at me, but I didn't think a thing of it.

My next few weeks at work were particularly interesting with incidents such as:

Her: I don't know what you were thinking attending Christmas Mass, but it's not a place for "your" people.

Me: If you can do me a favor and tell me who "those" people are?

Her: ...

I had many variations of that conversation and NO ONE told me what they meant. If it was faith that doesn't make sense I obviously agreed (mostly) with their beliefs as evidence by attending the service and the Catholic Church unlike many Churches doesn't encourage singular groups to attend (as many do with race, culture, etc.).

Again though this is partially my fault for not simply asking a few questions. I REALLY SHOULDN'T BELIEVE IN RESPECT BEING SILENCE SO MUCH.

I did and will still turn the other cheek and I still think they've represented what I want to say are Christ's (Jesus's ?) teachings better than most, but again I shouldn't compare them to other Christians for obvious reasons.

---

So some years ago an American Christian Preacher named Harold Camping (who had been warning his followers of the end of the world) claimed an exact date of May 21st, 2011. As the date neared numerous people from around the country started acting as his representatives and would warn people of the apocalypse as they would go about their daily lives. My Aunt and Dad (step-Dad, but I'll give him the title) both dealt with them at work and they are resolute in believing the world would end and that they were taking the time to try to convince others of the same. Surprisingly I met none of these people are work and it disappointed me, because I'd love to respectfully hear them out then point out that if you've lived by the appropriate values it wouldn't matter whether the rapture happens now or far in the future. They I'm sure would easily point out that if I'm wrong there's no turning back and I'd happily quote:

"But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

There are also numerous lines stating that anyone who claims to know the date of "the end of days" is trying to lead people astray and not to follow them.

I mean I realize any disagreement would simply lead to them shutting their ears to my words, but (I'm used to it to where it wouldn't bother me) there's always a chance that if they are authentically following the Bible straight that having to know even a tiny conflicting fact can be the "seed of doubt" that grows into something much greater.

In fact the day of the fated "end" it was supposed to occur in the early afternoon and on the way to start work just prior to that one of the strip malls I drove by which had a Bible Study store for many years was holding a "End Party" with a banner to get peoples attention and a few tables with snack foods. I only saw a few people, but I live in a small town so if they represent any percent of the US population that's surprising. I drove by and shrugged.

I will regret for the rest of my life for the sake of this set of stories that I didn't take one day off just so I could stay and watch those people as the time came and passed. I'd laugh if they cried when it didn't come true or if they started arguing over what could be wrong even if it meant a verbal spat I'd gladly try to enlighten them without being harsh. I strongly suspect they all just avoided each others gaze, got in their vehicles, and went home like nothing happened to try to forget the embarrassment. Too bad a lot of those people gave away most of their money directly to their leader beforehand to "help spread the word".

I'm also amazed that with the huge amount of people, cameras, and easy internet access that there's no video anywhere online of anyone recording a group as the time came. Too bad.

WAIT I FOUND TWO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwGaDBGV93w

Equal proportions of the crowd who believed you couldn't predict the date (and were there to prove themselves right), people who believed in it (who suddenly claimed it was still going to happen, but for reasons they couldn't explain it wasn't happening then, and finally people who were there for the spectacle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAGuTayfy_o

CNN reports all the silliness, but only one interview with a believer. He's at a loss to explain.



---

One day at work I'm approached by a deeply religious woman about my age who came from a family that was incredibly restrictive of her behavior. I was amazed by what she said.

Her: I understand now why you have long hair. You must have taken a vow like the Nazirite have. I think that's great.

Me: ...

During the entire period of their Nazirite vow, no razor may be used on their head. They must be holy until the period of their dedication to the Lord is over; they must let their hair grow long.

NOTE: A "Nazirite" is just someone particularly devoted to God.

Now remember I stopped cutting my hair to confuse my racial identity to bigots for silly, but highly effective reasons (that I think you should remember from my other stories) yet by coincidence I appeared to be practicing something sacred. I didn't have the heart to tell her she was wrong, but she really didn't give me a chance to.

I don't tell this story for any particular reason or lesson I just find it funny and I hope you do to.

I'd also like to say that the woman due to her high faith was hoping to get accepted into a faith-based college in hopes of becoming a priest (priestess is the correct word, but no Christian group uses that) even though they don't accept woman in any position of preaching or authority. After she stopped working and left for her schooling I realized I never asked for contact information (I don't even remember her full name). I'd really like to know if they accepted her into any programs and if they didn't if she found any alternatives (like just being a charity worker or going to another religious organization). I hope she's satisfied.

---

So you say you're Catholic?

Me: ...

Did you know that Catholics are responsible for many of the deaths while my people fled for the west?

Me: Well actually Catholics were one of the tiniest religious minorities in the USA until the 1850's and the Irish potato famine. The persecution and forced migration of the Mormons took place in the early 1840's.

Well of course you can't trust history written by the people who would perpetrate such persecution.

Me: Well of course and since the country was founded by Protestants and Catholics hid their faith for most of the countries existence any history written then would of course be written to the detriment of Catholicism and since modern history is copied from past history how why would Protestants want to cover up Catholics being cruel to another religious minority?

(walks away)

Me: ...

So I realize she was probably raised with an...alternate version of history that not only wasn't true, but attempted to portray a particular group as superior, but I can understand that after the near-extermination of an entire faith and in a country that had been founded with principles supposed to prevent that it would leave a mark on the survivors that would (through education) be carried far into the future. It's still wrong though.

Remarkably things changed later...

Some Mormons apparently believe in arranged marriages decided by the church/parents and not the individual. I had been told this is something the more Fundamental Latter-Day-Saints (as Mormons prefer to be called LDS members) while mainstream Mormons don't practice it.

It seems either the arrangement of marriage is done in secret by the mainstream members or her parents were particular in that believe, because they arranged to have her married to someone she not only had no interest in, but also had a reputation for a nasty temper.

Thank God for the internet though. She knew someone far away and not particularly religious whom she had "loved" and after explaining the situation (or perhaps begging for help) it was arranged (without her parents knowledge) that he pick her up and immediately take her to Vegas to get married in one of those "24 hour chapels" to save her from a marriage she feared.

She later admitted to me that now separated from her family that she can see why people think of Mormons the way they do.

---

I rarely have them (and they are one of the smallest religions specific to the USA), but I have met multiple Freemasons. Their religion dates back to even before the American Revolution and was (and still is) practiced in secret. Many people think their a cult, but I can easily imagine that needing to keep their religion private (from so long ago when it was tiny and secrecy becoming a tradition) would make people naturally suspicious and just assume bad things about them. For that reason alone I would think well of them for being undeservedly maligned by others for simply wanting the privacy they deserve.

In fact many people say that multiple of the USA's founding fathers were Freemasons.

Unfortunately the only way to be taught their beliefs is to be accepted so I can't comment on what their beliefs are.

In fact when I've had to deal with them (only a handful in many years) they are stand-offish and appear already angry. No one has ever said why.

I've read articles in the past few years about them being severely worried about their numbers dropping, because no one is joining when offered membership. Supposedly they face criticism for having no minorities among them which they've actively taken steps to counter by adding minority members.

I suppose that most of the older Freemasons due to belonging to a small social circle and emphasizing privacy are automatically wary of anyone not included without any particular reason. I can't blame them.

---

NOTE TO READER: I had felt that sexuality was a separate subject not to include in this series of stories and that this tale has gone on too long as it is, but since faith often mentions lots of rules about intercourse and often gets brought up in relationships I think I have to write that subject within this story.

---

Now during all this time I had been in the "prime" dating years, but due to money and time constraints I didn't bother (which was easy since I'm not inclined socially anyway). I graduated with my four year degree at the age of 27 and figured it was time to start trying. Then an idea hit me.

I know that people who reach my age who are still virgins are very rare. I suppose since I don't attribute a value to sex other than creating offspring (which I wasn't going to due until married if at all) or enjoyment (which I understand, but am bashful enough to not need) that it wasn't an accomplishment to "maintain" my virginity on purpose such as for religious values. Yet still I did it even if not for "ideal" reasons.

Now I think if there had to be a rule where everyone or no one would have sex obviously I'd prefer everyone simply so humanity could survive. The best option is of course letting people decide since some might not be able to raise children well (too busy with career), having some unfortunate malady that prevents reproduction, or even being devoted religiously to celibacy. Unfortunately though all options are valid as long as almost no people take those routes it's "abnormal".

Now I wasn't going to take a vow of celibacy given I'm not affiliated with any religious group let alone a member of a devoted organization, BUT if I were the fact I lasted this long is certainly something of high value. That's the thing...I don't waste anything of value.

Not wanting to and thinking mainly it was a bad idea, BUT acknowledging I didn't know what it was like and curious I set about looking up information even if only to know why I shouldn't.

---

So to begin I already acknowledge that abstaining from any "material" enjoyment is good for faith, but also that people who give up sex often get overwhelmed by desire which could lead to even worse things than just sex outside of marriage.

Various sources of information how "great" celebacy is without giving any information. I suppose you "have the spirit" for it or don't.

Various personal accounts from individuals having taken such vows constantly report that they feel it's so hard to maintain their composure that they may as well have "mentally" failed.

Then I realized I should take a large group of intelligent and highly varied individuals and ask them what they think. After all I had no real parlay with anyone deeply religious (which I should wisely avoid) yet I did want to hear from them. Guess where I asked?

Hi NMA what would you say about me taking a vow of celibacy?

In retrospect this was exceptionally stupid. In order to get a "pure" response I figured I wouldn't give a context so people could give their personal reasons. This only meant no one could understand my position and couldn't respond to the question.

I'd like to say to all of you I DID waste your time with that question.

Amidst all this I did get a moment of clarity:

Friend: You know if you believe it's the right thing to do why should it matter if you say it in words (a vow) or do it openly (by representing a group)? Don't you think God would know anyway?

Me: I'm impressed you think that. What's your religious affiliation?

Friend: I'm an Athiest.

Even more amazing is that his statement is actually in line with this:

But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath. But let your "Yes" be "Yes," and your "No," "No," lest you fall into judgment.

God requires no dramatic oaths or serious vows. Just do or do not do. I wonder why I've never heard anyone bring this up?


---

I wisely decided to not take a vow of celibacy including not being celibate without a vow. I'd see if I could find someone under appropriate circumstances to have a relationship with and let it develop naturally.

I'd like to also say I don't think any less of anyone who doesn't consider such a thing or even has sex prior to marriage if they're not committing a crime.

I got lucky in having a girlfriend who I decided I wouldn't ask about sex (since she might want to wait until marriage or in fact just be very bashful) and whom never brought the subject up even after a year of dating. I hope though that doesn't mean she wanted me to offer myself to her as that would mean she might have though I wasn't interested in her physically (which I was).

Our relationship ended unfortunately (though not badly) by simple fact that she had to move and I had to stay where I am to help my Dad with some health problems. That is another story belonging to a different subject.

---

One day in an online chat I frequent with many friends:

Person: Vault it's an EMERGENCY!

Me: What happened?

Person: You know ******* and how she lives with her Mom right? How her Mom is a psycho religious fanatic? Well she's coming down hard on ******* for being trans(gender). There having an argument right now and there's a good chance that she will have to leave, because even if she's chooses to stay her Mom would never allow it.

Personal thoughts: There's so much that could and probably is going on that we don't know about. Either (or both) of them could be terrible people. Also even if I'm not judgemental about sexuality I imagine the "work" necessary to live that lifestyle are (in my opinion) sort of extravagant and I don't like impracticality.

Me: Are you sure about all this?

Person: Her Mom goes to one of those Churches that is constantly blaming all the worlds ills on every sort of person outside of them. She in fact keeps ranting about various races and religions using all the slurs you can imagine.

Me: Where does she live?

Person: Four hours from you.

Personal thoughts: That's an eight hour trip total in the middle of the night and two tanks of gas for over $100. Am I really going to do this?

Me: Does she have a Paypal account? I can give her $100 to somehow calm things maybe by offering a gift or staying at a local hotel cheaply for a while.

Person: That may be even better!

Things worked out for most of a year and in the meantime it was agreed that should any incident happen in the future I would be called upon to deliver her to my area whereupon her boyfriend (who lives four hours further away from me) would get her and also give her a place to stay happily.

I was also determined to argue with her Mother about various issues using Biblical references as needed (since I could change her mind and even if I coudln't I wanted to be sure she wasn't in the right), but everyone recommended against it.

For better or worse it was all unnecessary as she needed deliverance early in a day I was working and by the time I was home and found out a couple (male and female) who are part of our group of friends had already embarked on the mission I would have taken.

As of this day she's happy and the people she's with are too and it's been half a year so I think things are plenty stable.

---

Speaking of alternatively sexual preferences I had more than a few gay people hit on me at work.

Various people (all male) would come up to me and mention how they "understood" why I was without a woman for so long then they'd make some obvious motion like a wink, intense smile, or once one man caressed my hand in a way that was no accident. Then they'd mention if I would just ask I could have personal information. One guy even gave me his phone number without request.

I never responded to any request (besides being way to shocked to respond anyway).

These all happened during only a few months. I found it surprising that all these particular incidents happened withing a very short span of time compared to the others and it makes me think that these people have a "close" and "tightly-knit" community where everything is not only shared, but quickly and organized. Seems silly to me, but I know most people are much more social than me.

I actually think that fact (which I seem to have been oblivious to) explains how a lot of any of the previous incidents happened regardless of what the issue was. Funny I only noticed now (as of writing this).

Also all the stereotypes I've been fed by media that are meant to spot homosexuality (jokingly or serious) were useless in the face of the people I met. No high-pitched voices, small frames (of body), or flamboyant clothes. ALSO NO LONG HAIR! One thing I did note was "colorful", but "acceptable" clothing. Like think of Hawaiian shirts. In fact I think half of them were wearing those. Is that a stereotype?

---

THE END

---

At least it SHOULD have been, but in the time it took me to write this (a few hours a week over about two months) two other things happened. It's amazing really.

---

Friend: I'll be gone on vacation for a week starting tomorrow.

Me: Business or pleasure?

Friend: Faith.

Me: Oh really? If it's not too personal (trust me I'll respect it) would you mind telling me what that's about?

Friend: Do you know a lot about religious history?

Me: In fact I'm quite educated on the matter (in real life I rolled my eyes).

Friend: I belong to a small Christian group that tried to break free from the Catholic Church long before the Protestant Reformation. They barely survived for hundreds of years and have lots of heroic stores surrounding their survival.

Me: Tell me more.

Friend: They are called the Waldensians.

Around 1,150 AD a small region in northern Italy had a religious revolution (with nearly identical beliefs to the later coming Protestants). They were continuously attacked in organized military campaigns that always ended in them surviving, but being reduced in number and forced to flee. When the Protestant revolution happened many joined the cause though they kept their specific name. There are Waldensian Churches spread in small amount throughout the world today.

I'm amazed I know someone descended from such a small, but such influential group.

---

It's almost like I attract friends who are deeply spiritually touched without any effort. At this point I'd swear I don't believe it myself.

---

On what seems to be a "usual" day at work:

Him: Listen I came to talk specifically to you.

Me: !!!

Him: I recently got taken into custody by the Police for being "suspicious" and they kept me locked up without evidence for a long time (I have no idea if he meant in Prison for months or jail for a few days there's a huge difference that I should have asked about).

Me: Oh...

Him: I just want to warn you that I was kept without proof just by vague suspicions. They can do that to anyone. Please be careful.

Me: (****! If what he's saying is true I don't what to associate with this. In fact I'm not Muslim, but he (and possibly the community of them) might think I am.)

(I can't let him go feeling unfulfilled though he's obviously distressed and needs some absolution.)

Me: I'll...keep aware of it.

Him: Sure. Take care.

Me: (Damnit I should have spoken more to get him to confide in me. He's probably going to hold a grudge.)

Under the circumstances he probably wouldn't have felt comfortable talking in a public place about such a subject or at least only quickly (which he did).

I know I can't solve everyones problems, but at this point (and such has been seen throughout this story) things continue to surprise me.

I really should talk faster.

---

--------------------

Finally (for now at least) this story is "complete". I have a few things to say to you dear reader.

Sorry it took so long to write, but as you could see I had a lot to say and since most of it took place long ago I had to gradually remember it by subject or incident one at a time.

Thanks for finally having me write it! Everything that happened I beared through and am still here (sane too!) so I didn't feel like I needed to confide to anyone however over many years more than a few family and friends have asked me why for all my education and conscience I don't seem to have anything of substance to add to religious discussions. The longer it went on the more I realized I would have to speak out yet also had so much more to say I couldn't find the time to write it all and I WASN'T going to summarize anything, because as you can see it's not a simple answer. Also the more happened the more it felt like an impressive story, but also the more it felt like a convoluted mess. I feel beyond great having written it just to see it done.

I just want all of you to know that I am eager to hear replies from so many of you (who all come from different backgrounds).

Also after a week has passed (so plenty of people can visit the thread and have more than enough time to read such a long post) I have a few questions I want to pose to all of you, but what I think to ask is quite dependent on what you all think so I want to hear your responses first. Don't worry it's nothing long or complicated.

Very Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller

 

[Beaushizzle]

Is this a factual account, or for entertainment use only?

 

[AskWazzup]

When i was in the 4th grade, we needed to read a book for school.... It was shorter than this post.

 

[Moosick]

I read convoluted essays for breakfast but even I am gounna call a

on that

 

[Crni Vuk]

If you ask me it should not be allowed to let anyone get in contact with religion before he's at least 16 years old. There should be a law or something.

 

[Akratus]

And politics.

 

[Hassknecht]

I read convoluted essays for breakfast but even I am gounna call a

on that

...
Tea animu frown pirate? Dafuq?

 

[Moosick]

Tea L Dee Arr

shitty joke i know

i want my lawyer.

 

[The Vault Dweller]

When i was in the 4th grade, we needed to read a book for school.... It was shorter than this post.

LOL

Is this a factual account, or for entertainment use only?

To the best of my knowledge (which is honest, well-remembered, and explained in depth) this is all true. If it's entertaining...then that's good too?

If you ask me it should not be allowed to let anyone get in contact with religion before he's at least 16 years old. There should be a law or something.

Perfectly said.

Freedom is decisions being made by an individual for an individual. However that requires a high degree of independence and education. A child is helpless at that.

---

I don't blame you all for having bulging eyes at first glance of what I wrote, but I really hope I can get a few replies from those who've read it.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller

 

[Crni Vuk]

It's OK VD, even if I don't read such long stuff it's still awesome that you write it

 

[zegh8578]

I read portions of it, it's an interesting thread, but I can't focus for all of it, sorry

You sure have met a whole lot of religious people! Norwegians, in general, are typically not religious, statistically most believe in "some kind of life force, or something" (Officially we are almost entirely Christian, but this is a long lasting controversy involving the State Church, and their habit of routinely counting the entire population as members of the church, even re-admitting people after they formally quit, without their knowledge)

My mom dabbled with a lot of generic "alternativism" for years, but... not surprisingly, none of this offers any magical solutions to anything, so her faith in it has diminished over the years.

One of the most interesting conversations I've had with a religious person was evolution with a Jewish gf of my brother. Jews in Norway are allready rare, so it was a strange experience, and even stranger when she actually took to heart the argument I laid forth, where I simply tried to explain the base mechanics of the bottle-neck process - one of the simplest forms of evolution to understand.
She admitted that it did indeed make a lot of sense, and I of course emphasized that none of this has to be in contrast with a creator, since a creator can create the environment in which the process takes place.
Even priests in Norway tend to be very liberal when it comes to natural sciences.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

I have not read everything yet as I don't have time at the moment right now (drawing class soon)
But I want to thank you for sharing this with us as so far I find it very interesting and I am curious how it continues (just reached the part in which you talk about your experiences and what you have learned from others with your father)

 

[valcik]

No chance I'd tap on all the interesting parts, so I'll start with this one for now:

You are aware that Catholicism is secretly pagan right?

Roman Catholic is the biggest registered denomination here in Slovakia and to this day our ancient pre-christian pagan traditions are mixed up with strict catholic doctrines imported later. Easter, for instance; there are interesting customs still kicking hard, such as celebration of fertility here in Slovakia:
http://www.slovakiasite.com/holidays-customs2.php
This has nothing to do with Christ, yet good christians are still celebrating the approach of springtime this way, every year. You should get pretty funny results after putting "Slovakia Easter" in the Google image search - young boys dressed in traditional folk costumes tossing poor girls into frosty mountain creeks and such.

 

[zegh8578]

No chance I'd tap on all the interesting parts, so I'll start with this one for now:

You are aware that Catholicism is secretly pagan right?

Roman Catholic is the biggest registered denomination here in Slovakia and to this day our ancient pre-christian pagan traditions are mixed up with strict catholic doctrines imported later. Easter, for instance; there are interesting customs still kicking hard, such as celebration of fertility here in Slovakia:
http://www.slovakiasite.com/holidays-customs2.php
This has nothing to do with Christ, yet good christians are still celebrating the approach of springtime this way, every year. You should get pretty funny results after putting "Slovakia Easter" in the Google image search - young boys dressed in traditional folk costumes tossing poor girls into frosty mountain creeks and such.

This is common in many cultures
Even the famous Catholocism is basically Christian mythology mixed with Roman pagan ritualism, even their polytheism survives to this very day, as they pay a lot of respect to a myriad of important saints.
In Norway, similarily, we had to adapt our Christianity to overlook alcohol and drinking, because it is too ingrained in our tradition, not to mention our Christmas - or should I say "Jul" as we still call it, with all the winter-solistice rituals preserved - such as huddling up, focusing on the dark and the coming of the sun.

 

[Hassknecht]

All in all a very interesting read, VD.
Although I have had a somewhat better experience with Jehova's Witnesses.
Some saturday afternoon I came home from a party in a different city, still hung over, and just wanted to get some groceries when two of them chatted me up on the street. I invited them over, and over the next two years or so I met with one of them every week in my kitchen for tea and talk about God, religion, science and whatnot. He'd often bring different guests with him, too. Why did I do that? Well, I like to challenge my own beliefs as much as I like to challenge others, and I thought "what would be more fun than making a Jehova's Witness question his faith?
It didn't really turn out that well, though. It turns out that the guy wasn't too smart. He knew a lot of Bible verses, but he was really just repeating what was printed in the Watchtower. No original thought, no theological experience at all. Worse, he completely lacked any scientific knowledge and understanding whatsoever and tried to argue science with me. Not the kind of guy you can convince with rationality and arguments to say the least.
One day we were talking about statistics and evolution, and how unlikely abiogenesis would be. He'd always go back to extremely simplified metaphores because, well, it's all he could understood, really, and it was really annoying. So he'd argue, "Well, suppose a tower of bricks would represent life, and you just let bricks rain down to stack by chance, it woudl be utterly impossible to form a tower at some point."
I tried to explain to him that there'd be billions of starting and toppling towers, and that the timeframe would be unimaginably long (millions of years), and he'd nod, "Yes, sure, I understand. But it's still impossible."
The great thing is that on the same day he'd tell me about how some people are blocked in their minds, they don't want to let God in. He told me about a catholic he talked to, and how he explained to the catholic with tons of Bible verses that the Trinity is not supported by the Bible. And the catholic would nod, "Yes, sure, I understand. But God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are still the same being."
The irony was completely lost on him, and so I gave up. And when he started to invite me to their meetings I told him that the whole thing wasn't going anywhere. He couldn't teach me, I couldn't teach him, and I had better things to do.

Still, all in all a relatively good experience. The Witnesses aren't as bad as their reputation, at least not in that case. And they do get off your tail if you tell them to sod off.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Well, a girl in my class had a lot of trouble because her parents have been members of Jehovas witness. Didn't really worked out for her in the end, with a lot of issues and bad blood. They teached their children like in a religious boot camp, sending them occasionaly out on missionary missions walking from door to door preaching to people, at least from what she explained. Not every member of their cult is a fanatic, I've also meet some normal people who have been members, but overall I would classify them as dangerous. At least to the more weak minded people or those that are easily convinced from fables. Like children.

 

[Beaushizzle]

@The Vault Dweller
I'm always interested about different religions and the extremes people take them to. I don't have a religion to ascribe to, because I don't know enough about any single one to throw myself in with them, and because the drama of everyday life tends to take precedence over philosophy and theistics.
My view, in general, is that religion (Christianity in particular) is basically a way of controlling the masses, telling them that if they work hard, pay their tithes and don't cause problems then they'll be rewarded in the end.
I think the ideas behind religion is all done and dandy, except when taken to extremes or not viewed critically, i.e. taking some writings as historical fact, rather than interpreting the writings as they relate to when they were written.
In general, I'm against organized religion, but only because of the problems that are caused when these ideas are taken to the extreme.

 

[zegh8578]

Ah, Hass reminds me of a fun meeting with a Witness, me and a very like-minded friend were out for a stroll. He stopped us in the street, and we quickly but politely cut him off, jokingly telling him that in terms of Christianity, we were straight off to hell either way, and that there was no repentance for us.
Man, did we hit his guilt-buttons :'D
He refused to accept that, insisting that good people are accepted to heaven, even despite our lack of faith. We told him to throw in a few good words for us, up at St. Peters, whenever the time came, and he promised he would

 

[AskWazzup]

Are Jehova's Witnesses these people walking around with white shirts, suits and backpacks? If so, i had a pretty nice chat with two of them (they were from USA). One said he had a degree in chemistry, the other one in music and we talked for 20-30 minutes (on a side walk) about life, music and our favorite composers. They tried to invite me to some church event and i politely refused, but they seemed to be pretty cool about that and we parted our ways in good spirits. All in all, it was a pretty good encounter.

 

[Hassknecht]

Are Jehova's Witnesses these people walking around with white shirts, suits and backpacks? If so, i had a pretty nice chat with two of them (they were from USA). One said he had a degree in chemistry, the other one in music and we talked for 20-30 minutes (on a side walk) about life, music and our favorite composers. They tried to invite me to some church event and i politely refused, but they seemed to be pretty cool about that and we parted our ways in good spirits. All in all, it was a pretty good encounter.

Sounds more like Mormons. Although, Jehovas Witness also usually wear button shirts and ties, at least.