Opinions on Communism

Bond Fan

No law ever written is as powerful as Cold Steel
Hi, I'd like to hear your opinions on the Soviet Union. Would you live in the SU/similar country?

Personally, I would rather live in a capitalist country, however the SU didn't seem that bad a place.
  • Full employment
  • Guarenteed pension
  • Free healthcare and education
  • Subsidized holidays (cheaper holidays, including free holiday homes for all families)
What is your opinion on what was the Soviet Union/communism.
 
While I wouldn't want to actually live there, but the USSR certainly fascinates me. Really enjoy the architecture and culture.
Never been to Russia so far, but I'll probably get there for about a week this October, though.
 
It was a good idea in 1848. It was a viable idea, then. And before unions, Social Democracy, more Democratic nations, and regulations which noted and dealt with the problems Marx and Engels whine about.

That no real industrialized nation took it on - Russia the closest - speaks volumnes. Real, violent revolutions are messy. They're uncertain. And they've more often than not done jack shit. And they're started, carried, and brought into the world NOT by the lower classes, who riot and run around until the situation becomes stable again, but by the middle class, which has the most to gain and has the skillset, time, and organization to carry out a revolution.

As for the USSR, Lenin was already cold and ironfisted to other Socialist and Communist parties. But as soon as Stalin came into the picture, the end was born. "Socialism in one country" defeats the purpose of Socialism and Communism. Trotsky knew that the revolution had to continue, that there could be one and only one system. And Stalin didn't care - Stalin got his throne. Trotsky dies, Stalin rules, and another Authoritarian state with fancy trappings took the stage. There are days that I wonder if Operation Unthinkable or the Allied Expedition should had been carried through, just to save the world misery.

Anyway, yes, Stalin takes over, makes the USSR his plaything, goes his way, abandons Mao by the time he dies, alienates Tito, divides the world, yadda yadda. After his death, Communism is all but dead, Mao messes it up even more but he tried only to be overruled by State Capitalism and Dengism. Other forms around the world are also psuedo-nationalist (a oxymoron regarding Communism) and are more anti-imperialist in nature and no real damn is given to the workers and class system as in the end a big man arises, gathers all resources and power, and rules; then he dies and the state transforms to State Capitalist (PRC, Vietnam, Cuba) or unregulated messes (Belarus, 90s Russia, the -Stans, etc). Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania got around this, somehow, and good for them; and other states put 'Socialist' in their name but never really went beyond somewhat regulated Capitalism/Social Democracy (Ghana, Chile, Portugal, Sri Lanka, etc)

Capitalism, at its worse, produces nearly the same result as Communism does in practice; but also, in practice, Capitalism produces a better result, a sweet spot, Social Democracy; which was already taking off and ruling by the mid 1900s. Communism died as soon as the workers got a voice, even if it's a small voice, it's a voice; and in practice Communism became a tool for old men to rule over the workers anyway. It's better off dead along with Free Market Capitalism, Fascism, and Feudalistic Monarchies.

As for you, OP, much of what you list (Can't guarantee a 'Holiday home', which I really doubt was available to all 200,000,000 in the USSR and just for the party members) is done in Social Democracy, with the side bonus of actually living in a state worth living in. The UK, Canada, Australia, NZ, France, Germany, Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Austria, Switzerland and Iceland are far up your own alley, wouldn't you say?
 
I would do, but like anything, there's the fear that it would get abused.
I wouldn't want to live under an Authoritarian Dictatorship.
But it was all that under a libertarian dictatorship, I wouldn't mind so much.

Sadly, no corrupt powerhouse seems to think a libertarian dictatorship is good.
At the same time, I believe in democracy
 
As for you, OP, much of what you list done in Social Democracy, with the side bonus of actually living in a state worth living in. The UK, Canada, Australia, NZ, France, Germany, Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Austria, Switzerland and Iceland are far up your own alley, wouldn't you say?
Actually all of what I listed happened in the USSR and these things were introduced by Stalin. Your correct about the holiday homes though.
 
I lived in Soviet Union for for whole 3 years, don't remember much though. I do think i would hate it today, based on the fact that you could not get anything that was not planned in advanced by the government to be available in large quantities. What this means in current age terms, is that i would still be sitting with a Pentium 3 and a Voodoo5 5500 gpu, while the rest of the world would be enjoying their I7 6700k's and NV 1080's.

There are other issues i have with it, but those were covered in other threads already.
 
I love the idea of Communism. But we all see how it went down. I don't blame the ideology though, I blame corrupt opportunists. Which we will have with any ideology.
 


I love the idea of Communism. But we all see how it went down. I don't blame the ideology though, I blame corrupt opportunists. Which we will have with any ideology.
This is an often-heard statement which frankly boggles my mind. What's there to love in the very idea of communism? Why do people get off on equality?
 



This is an often-heard statement which frankly boggles my mind. What's there to love in the very idea of communism? Why do people get off on equality?


I guess we're just wired differently. I was a communist at heart before I even knew what politics was. Some of my earliest memories are about getting upset that people are treated unfairly, and that not everyone can afford food. I can't see anything wrong with wishing every living person well. And I happily turn down things if it means someone else more in need might benefit. I'm not going to defend myself for being a well meaning person with a heart.

It boggles my mind that people even to this day are so fooled by propaganda.
 
I guess we're just wired differently. I was a communist at heart before I even knew what politics was. Some of my earliest memories are about getting upset that people are treated unfairly, and that not everyone can afford food. I can't see anything wrong with wishing every living person well. And I happily turn down things if it means someone else more in need might benefit. I'm not going to defend myself for being a well meaning person with a heart.

It boggles my mind that people even to this day are so fooled by propaganda.
How is the fact that not everyone can afford food unfair? And since when does capitalism make food less affordable? If I remember correctly, the poor of capitalist countries have more problems with obesity than starvation.

And if saying that an idea which proposes stealing from the competent to give to the incompetent is a good one makes you a well-meaning person with a heart, I think you'd be better off heartless.
 
How is the fact that not everyone can afford food unfair?
You ever had to deal with an empty fridge? What was the most serious problem you ever had to deal with? Or the most shitty job you had to do in your life?

I am genuinely curious.

On a side note. Do you know one of the biggest reasons for violent revolutions and riots? Youp. When people can't get food. By making sure that food is sold at a reasonble price, that people have access to it and that most people can afford it, you actually make sure that society as a whole is working. So it really is not only a question of fair and unfair. If you don't want thousands of people doing everything they can to get food, and causing a hell of a chaos in the process, than you better make sure that it is affordable at a fair price. Seriously. Common sense, kinda.
 
I just want this to be understood correctly: The poor eat more food than the rich.

Meaning, we had it wrong this whole time. There IS unfairness in the world, the fucking poor are hogging all the resources. That's why we must rally against the poor, the weak, the sick and the destitute.
Sieg Heil!
 
How is the fact that not everyone can afford food unfair? And since when does capitalism make food less affordable? If I remember correctly, the poor of capitalist countries have more problems with obesity than starvation.

And if saying that an idea which proposes stealing from the competent to give to the incompetent is a good one makes you a well-meaning person with a heart, I think you'd be better off heartless.

Don't cut yourself on that edge of yours.

For me it's all about equal opportunity. People have their differences, cultures have their differences, and no two people will ever be entirely equal. It's worth striving for everyone having as big a chance in life, however. And not only because it seems like the right humane thing to do, but becuase it's ultimately what's best for humanity and society. @Crni Vuk brought up a very good point. Besides that, how would we ever find all the true talent in the world when the majority never get a chance to show it? And meanwhile, talentless hacks are born into wealth and power.
 
Don't cut yourself on that edge of yours.

For me it's all about equal opportunity. People have their differences, cultures have their differences, and no two people will ever be entirely equal. It's worth striving for everyone having as big a chance in life, however. And not only because it seems like the right humane thing to do, but becuase it's ultimately what's best for humanity and society. @Crni Vuk brought up a very good point. Besides that, how would we ever find all the true talent in the world when the majority never get a chance to show it? And meanwhile, talentless hacks are born into wealth and power.
Yeah, don't get him started about what's "best for humanity". You're talking to a racist and social darwinist here.
 
Yeah, don't get him started about what's "best for humanity". You're talking to a racist and social darwinist here.

I've gathered as much from previous conversations, and I'm not going down that path. I'm not even going to ask who decided who has the right to afford food and who doesn't.
 
I've gathered as much from previous conversations, and I'm not going down that path. I'm not even going to ask who decided who has the right to afford food and who doesn't.

NMA, like anywhere else, has the extreme right to the extreme left. There was a thread a month or two ago about 'leftism in the fallout series' which was a trainwreck. Best not to get into it deeply, no argument on the net has ever changed anyone's mind about politics to any real degree!
 
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